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Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:23 am
by Jim Eshelman
Jan 31, 2014
According to her birth certificate, Amanda Knox was born July 9, 1987, 2:47 AM PDT, Seattle, WA. Meredith Kercher's murder occurred November 1, 2007, in Perugia, Italy, with court experts testifying it was between 8:45 pm AND 12:50 am. (I'll use 10:45 pm as a central time.)
I shan't dwell on the natal too much, other than to say that, in broad terms (and without necessarily endorsing the extremism of description), it is descriptive both of the Italian legal system's characterization of her and of her own self-description. As to whether she could commit murder, I'll say that it isn't a classic murder chart (though most people are probably capable of that under the right conditions).
She is a Gemini-Scorpio with Pluto 0°31' above the Descendant in mundane conjunction with the Moon 2°41' above the Descendant. Saturn is in orb of them both, being 5°57' above the Descendant. This Moon-Saturn-Pluto triple conjunction (Moon 33' from the Saturn/Pluto midpoint in mundo) is the most indicting indication of her natal. Combined with Gemini-Scorpio luminaries, she is more capable than most people of detached, almost inhumanly disconnected, icy-passion action. -- But that, of course, doesn't mean she committed murder.
I was also actively looking for a Moon-Pluto strong aspect in this chart - disturbed not to find it in the natal - delighted to find it in the mundoscope so obviously. Reading Knox' history after her arrest, and with no regard to the question of whether she was guilty of the murder, she was nonetheless victimized and betrayed time after time by speaking in supposedly confidential ways. Many Moon-Pluto people have an almost inhuman capacity to be victimized. [EDIT: I later noticed she has a Moon-Pluto semi-square regardless.]
Back to the natal: The aspects include a (just under) 2° Moon-Uranus conjunction, Neptune oppositions to both Venus and Mercury (0°16' from their midpoint), and a moderate Mars-Jupiter square.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:23 am
by Jim Eshelman
TRANSITS
t. Neptune -135- r. Venus (25' ap)_
Meaning unclear; or, rather, it could indicate so many diverse things alleged about the situation.
t. Venus -90- r. Moon (32' sep)
t. Venus -45- r. Pluto (14' sep)
By everyone's account of the evening, it was a sexually-active evening; however, this aspect does not speak of violence (quite the contrary). It just looks like a great date night.
And that's it! That's the sum of her transits to her natal.
On nearly equal par with transits to the natal chart are transits to the current SSR. These are:
t. Pluto -0- s. Pluto (3' ap)
Regardless of what happened that night, there was an extreme, stunning event, marking a one-way door into the rest of her life, for Amanda Knox that night; so this doesn't tell us anything.
That's all.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:24 am
by Jim Eshelman
SOLAR RETURNS
However, her SSR can be seen as harsh, violent, bloody. It has a 0°50' Moon-Mars conjunction in Aries, exactly square the Midheaven (Mars within 4') and with Mars being less than 2° from square her natal MC. It opposes her natal Pluto. Her natal Jupiter and Pluto (in mundane opposition) are in the foreground.
Natal Mars squares the Ascendant within just over 1°. This is important for the following reasons: The rest of the SSR clearly shows extreme confrontation with something violent, bloody, etc. as one of its manifestations, but the rest of the chart is more typical of an attack on her, or of her being on the receiving end of the experience - being abused or even just finding her flatmate murdered and going through the ordeals that follow. There is enormous emotional violence here, and circumstances altering her life forever. But, with one exception, there is no indication that she would be committing the violence.
Her natal Mars closely angular adds that possibility. It's not the only interpretation... but it's one possibility.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:24 am
by Jim Eshelman
LUNAR RETURNS
The October 16 SLR had Pluto, Saturn, and Uranus in the foreground. This would be appropriate for the events whether she committed the murder or not.
The October 29 Demi-SLR had transiting Neptune half a degree from square the MC. That's the most pronounced feature and (like most of what we've seen) would represent the events of the time regardless. That is, during this two weeks, she either violently murdered her flatmate in an extreme sexual scenario or discovered her home broken into and her flatmate horribly murdered; and then was, herself, arrested for the murder.
Transiting Mars is about 9° below the Descendant in mundo, and conjunct natal Mercury. Her own Sun and Mars are also in the setting foreground (the Descendant is 29°14' Gemini, her Sun sets at 22°06' Gemini, and her Mars, at that latitude, sets at 9°10' Cancer). Transiting Mercury exactly square the Ascendant likely simply means she would be much in the news and subject to extensive questioning, inquiry, etc.
So, again, we have an emotionally extreme chart - hysterical, surrealistic, with distortions etc., wherein violence from the outside is shown and, also, enough Mars from her - and, in this case, Sun with Mars, self-direction as well as Mars-expression - to make feasible the possibility that she took an active hand.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:25 am
by Jim Eshelman
PROGRESSIONS
Secondary progressions of the natal chart begin with a 0°20' progressed Venus-Jupiter square - hardly strange for an American exchange student in Italy and, reportedly, having a fabulous time. But p. Venus was also just within 1° of sesquisquare progressed Saturn... so it wasn't all just one fabulous, fun-filled holiday.
p. Mercury -0- r. Sun (15' sep)
American student, travelling.
p. Sun -150- r. Neptune (16')
Appropriate for the reality-distorting emotional excursion this time-period would provide her.
p. Sun -135- r. Moon (48' ap)
The most relevant fact here is that it showed her in high publicity for the next two years.
THE SNQ(2)
At the likely time of the murder, SNQ Asc was 21°11' Sagittarius, bringing the conjunction of progressed Mercury and natal Sun to the Descendant. However, this was really exact the next day - a day when the authorities put a major spotlight on her, spent with inquiries and investigations, etc. I think it basically shows the inquiries. No transiting planets were angular.
THE SNQ(Q1)
The Q1 Ascendant was 1°31' Sagittarius at the time of the murder, with transiting Pluto at 2°14' Sagittarius. This certainly shows a dramatic, confrontational significant event. I note, though, that while it is within orb at the time of the murder, it became exact about three-fourths of a day later - the following afternoon when (if her story is true) she had found her flatmate murdered, the police became involved, etc. While an event is possible on either day, both versions of the SNQ show the main event of the period being a day later, when the murder investigation was underway.
THE SQ
The Solar Quotidian had an Ascendant 25°30' Capricorn, with SSR Neptune at 26°40' Capricorn and transiting Neptune at 24°24' Capricorn. This is the main significant factor. The transiting Neptune event peaked nearly a day earlier, and, the SSR Neptune event peaks the next day: Her extreme emotional event coincides with the time she said she found the body and the police involvement began. (Arguably, their midpoint could be involved: at 25°28' it was almost exactly the SQ Ascendant. This isn't as strong as either of them hitting it alone, but does tend to make the timing fuzzy).
One other factor is significant in the SQ: Transiting Saturn is not quite 2° from the Westpoint in RA. Saturn on an angle would be consistent with the theory about her committing the murder (the victim had "just said no" etc.), but it wasn't in orb then. It was in orb over the three days following. This does suggest that the biggest event in her life of this period was in the day or so after the murder, not the day of the murder itself.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:25 am
by Jim Eshelman
My conclusions are:
1. There is no doubt this chart was on track to encounter a dramatic, violent, bloody, horrifying, freaky type of experience at the time of the murder and its sequelae.
2. The line between perpetrator and recipient of violence is sometimes hard to distinguish. Mostly, the factors show external violence, including one significant transit often seen in victims of violence or people otherwise on the receiving end of the impact. Nonetheless, her own Mars is just enough involved that it isn't inconceivable that she was involved.
3. However, the most significant events for her during this period were for the next day - the day that she says she found her home broken into, and eventually discovered her murdered flatmate. This was also the day that the police became involved and began interrogating her, leading to trial, four years of imprisonment, enormous embarrassment, and all the events following. This was obviously a stressful day. However, I presume that actually killing a friend (or being party to killing a friend) with brutal stabbings, shedding enormous amounts of blood, and all the stuff that follows, would have been one of the most significant events in anyone's life, next to which the drama with the police the next day would be a simple continuance, and even less important.
So I'm concluding that she did not have any significant event on the night of the murder (other than a pleasure-filled evening at her boyfriend's house), did not commit the murder, and returned home to life-altering drama the next day.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:26 am
by Jim Eshelman
rudy wrote:Boy, what an interesting analysis! I began studying Amanda Knox and the murder of Meredith Kercher about the time of the first guilty verdict but failed to post anything because I doubted anyone would be interested. Without going into my conclusions exhaustively, let me say that I believe what was said about O.J. Simpson at the time of his murder indictment and trial could also be said about Amanda Knox: either she is guilty as charged, or she is the unluckiest person in the world!
Jim made it clear that he was going to focus more on the transits, etc. surrounding the murder than on what Amanda Knox' natal chart might reveal, and that makes sense. There are, however a few more interesting nuggets to be gleaned from the radix. I am glad he saw that Knox' natal Pluto was in close mundane conjunction with the descendant, and reported what that could suggest: a detached, emotionally remote, self-justifying nature, as the Plutonian is so often a "law unto himself". And I remember reading that her relatives were quoted as saying that she had always been very poor at picking up on social cues, the small considerations which grease the skids of successful human interaction. This Pluto was also connected with a luminary, which I believe is of importance. As to whether or not her chart shows any propensity to violence, well, the potential is there but takes a second look to see--her natal Mars is in exact square to her Vertex, recognized as a "sensitive point". Mars is also in wide zodiacal square to natal Pluto...the chart reveals an opposition between her Mercury-Venus conjunction and Neptune, which is significant for a couple of reasons: her account of her whereabouts and actions changed so often and so radically that even the police were confused, and her accusations of police coercion and brutality were so outlandish and so easily disproved that she was found guilty in a criminal case of slander against the police, which presumably figured into her eventual sentence.
It's worth noting here that although murder trials take place everyday, at least in the United States they rarely engage the attention of a large portion of the population. But I find it astounding that in three of the most notorious murder trials during the past twenty years, all three defendants--O.J. Simpson, Amanda Knox, and Jodi Arias--were born on the very same day of the year, July 9! (The three all had the Sun in the 23rd degree of Gemini, but a cursory look at the fixed star and asteroid tables failed to turn up any major zodiacal aspects between those bodies and the Sun, so someone should probably double-check that or look into possible mundane parans.) These three murders were done using a knife as the murder weapon, and two of them involved near-decapitation, with copious amounts of blood at the crime scene. And in the case of Jodi Arias (born July 9, 1980, 1:52 am, Salinas, California), not only does her radix show a close zodiacal square between the Sun and Pluto, but Pluto is less than one degree from the Vertex in addition to being in a mundane one-degree conjunction with the descendant or anareta, the place of death, the same location as that of Amanda Knox. There is more, but we have to move on.
The use of certain astrological techniques tends to ebb and flow. Remember how within the past year or two the forum was awash in posts regarding the importance of kinetic returns? It's only natural that our interest is engaged in different ways at different times, but there is one relatively obscure return that deserves examination in every single important case, and that is the Navamsa or Ennead, which Jim treats very incisively in his writings. Oh, they may not be the definitive charts in any analysis of transits, but they can often tip the scales when other indicators are not decisive, and I wish that people would refer to them more often. It was O.J. Simpson's final Ennead during the time of the Brown and Goldman murders which settled his guilt in my mind (not that the other return and transit charts were any less clear!) because that chart showed a partile transit of the Sun to his natal Mars, occurring within five degrees of his midheaven, which validates Jim's clear dictum that when partility and angularity coincide, outstanding events occur. In the case of Amanda Knox, her Ennead return preceding the murder of Meredith Kercher showed a Mars-Pluto opposition across the horizon, with Mars setting zodiacally only 3' of arc from the descendant, but only 2' of arc from its mundane setting. At the very least, all these indicators show that the person in question was bound to be involved in a hectic, coercive, and potentially violent environment, probably resulting in "up close and personal" contact with law enforcement. And that's exactly what happened. Amanda Knox' PSSR for 10:45 pm local time on the night of the murder shows solar Pluto within one degree of a square to the ascendant, on the zenith in other words. I think we can say that being involved in or anywhere near the murder of one's roommate qualifies as a stunning, life-changing, cataclysmic event, in keeping with the nature of Pluto. And, oh, yes--Amanda's boyfriend and co-defendant Rafaelle Sollecito (March 26, 1984, 1:15 am in Bari, Italy) eventually refused to support her claim that she spent a pleasant evening and night at his apartment, whereupon she changed her story...
There are many more pertinent planetary contacts shown by the return charts covering this unfortunate event (Venus-Saturn recurs often, and, not surprisingly, Jupiter has benefited Amanda Knox in quite a few ways, as her "popularity" and grassroots support from many has been evident); and while her current Ennead has a close and angular Mercury-Saturn square--bad news, you betcha--transiting Pluto is exactly conjunct the Vertex and couldn't possibly be better aspected, receiving an exact opposition from Jupiter and a close conjunction with slow-moving Venus. Even though she is now technically an outlaw (Pluto), she may yet remain free from the grasp of the Italian justice system.
Based on the evidence adduced at trial (much of which was badly reported in the U.S. media), the multitudes of differing statements offered by the defendant, her efforts to pin the guilt and a possible life sentence in prison on a man she must have known was not guilty, and her demeanor in the aftermath of the murder, trial(s), and verdict(s), I have to conclude that Amanda Knox was at least present during the murder of Meredith Kercher, thus making her an accessory at the minimum. The astrological indicators weigh heavily towards her involvement, while in no way exonerating her. The other convicted murderer Rudy Guede, whose DNA was found on Meredith Kercher's body, finally confessed and is the only one of the three defendants who has done so. His prison sentence was lessened by several years as a result.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:26 am
by Jim Eshelman
SteveS wrote:Rudy wrote:
The use of certain astrological techniques tends to ebb and flow. Remember how within the past year or two the forum was awash in posts regarding the importance of kinetic returns?
Wikipedia states about Amanda Knox:
On 25 October 2007 after going to a concert with Kercher she met and began a romantic relationship with a 23-year old Italian engineering student, Raffaele Sollecito and began spending her nights at his apartment a short distance away.
Kay Cavendar, a Siderealist wrote:
Fagan in one of his early articles from Spica Journal considered the Lunar Kinetic of the SSR as perhaps the most potent return charts of them all.
I have very little experience with Kinetic Return Charts but considering the above statement by Wikipedia about Amanda's new “romantic relationship” with Scollecito, I would have to say Amanda’s SSR Lunar Kinetic Oct 27rd 2007, 2:33:25 AM CET, located to Perugia Italy nailed the acute angular planetary symbolism for this new “romantic relationship!”
Amanda's Oct 27th 2007 SSR Lunar Kinetic:
Asc 20,15 Leo
Venus 21,56 Leo
Uranus 20,15 Aqu
*Kinetic computed with Janus 4.3 Software.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:27 am
by Jim Eshelman
SteveS wrote:I would have to say Amanda’s SSR Lunar Kinetic Oct 27th 2007, 2:33:25 AM CET, located to Perugia Italy nailed the acute angular planetary symbolism for this new “romantic relationship!”
Asc 20,15 Leo
Venus 21,56 Leo
Uranus 20,15 Aqu
Some of the finest book delineations I have ever encountered pertaining to angular aspected planets with Return Charts comes from Donald Bradley’s book ‘Solar & Lunar Returns. Interesting what Donald says about angular Venus-Uranus symbolism with a return chart:
This combination presages erotic experiences. The native is faced with and yields to sporadic temptations which result in their discovering new sensuous delights. The native makes changes in their choice of companions, preferring a wholly different scene for the pursuit of pleasures.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:27 am
by Jim Eshelman
SteveS wrote:Jim wrote:
I was also actively looking for a Moon-Pluto strong aspect in this chart - disturbed not to find it in the natal - delighted to find it in the mundoscope so obviously.
One of the better Sidereal Astrology examples I have seen proving the value of Fagan’s Mundoscope showing the true mundane position of a planet (Pluto) relative to a chart (natal) angle. Also an excellent example showing the
true cornerstone of Sidereal Astrology is planetary angularity. Our standard horoscopes show Amanda’s Natal Pluto 12,32 Lib, 32 degrees from Amanda’s Natal Dsc 14,20 Scorpio, but using Cyril Fagan’s invention of the ‘Mundoscope,’ Amanda’s true mundane position of Natal Pluto is partile (less than 1 degree) conj her Natal Dsc. Using Amanda’s Natal Mundoscope we can easily see this acute angular Pluto with its aspects has/will now become the dominating planetary influence for the rest of her life with first a murder conviction, second a not guilty reversed convention of murder, third another guilty convention of murder, with another appeal in the Italian Legal system pending, or in other words, her life has now become a living ‘Hades.’ A most excellent example of some Fagan words pertaining to Amanda’s Natal Mundane Pluto occupying the ‘anaereta’ degree of her Natal Horoscope where he states:
Referring to the western hinge, that is, the cusp of the 7th house or anaereta, Manilius affirms that its guardian is “Pluto (Hades) and inexorable death.”
More about the historical lore of “Hades:”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:27 am
by Jim Eshelman
SteveS wrote:Jim wrote:
This Moon-Saturn-Pluto triple conjunction (Moon 33' from the Saturn/Pluto midpoint in mundo) is the most indicting indication of her natal.
Reinhold Ebertin, in his book ‘The Combinations of Stellar Influences,” offers the following words for this Midpoint:
...The tragic destiny of a woman.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:28 am
by Jim Eshelman
As indicated, I think she potentially could have done these acts under the right circumstances. I just don't think she did, and don't think she was present or knew anything about it in advance.
My main reason for that is that her charts show there was no event on the night of the murder that came close to having the intensity of events of the next day. The night of the murder, she has a nice, happy, sexy transit and (as has been seen here) supportive other charts.
If she were present for the murder, the night and early morning would have been the most significant event if she has any slight trace of humanity in her at all, with the subsequent investigation and incarceration being simply follow-through of the drama-in-progress. This isn't what the charts seem to show. OTOH if she were not present and knew nothing about it, then discovering her home invaded, her flatmate horribly murdered, and then the investigation etc. would have been the biggest event of the time - and this is what the charts seem to say.
Of course, none of us knows.
But I do find it all very interesting.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:28 am
by Jim Eshelman
SteveS wrote:Jim wrote:
As indicated, I think she potentially could have done these acts under the right circumstances. I just don't think she did, and don't think she was present or knew anything about it in advance.
I also think she is innocent of this murder. I don’t know all the facts of this case, but it doesn’t make sense to me she was enjoying an evening with her murdered flatmate at a concert on Oct 25th, meeting a new romance, and then being convicted of the Nov 1st murder of her flatmate. Where is the motive she committed this murder?
But I do find it all very interesting.
Yes, it is very interesting. I am already looking at her next most interesting SSR since we know she is living at home in Seattle. If the new verdict of this next appeal is rendered during her next SSR, I predict she will again be found innocent because her Natal Jupiter is partile conj her SSR Asc (how one reacts to the influences of a SSR). Also, SSR Jupiter is partile 90 her SSR Asc.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:29 am
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:Jim, what do you mean when you say
Many Moon-Pluto people have an almost inhuman capacity to be victimized.
do you mean to be actual victims or to act like a victim because they enjoy it?
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:29 am
by Jim Eshelman
To be actual victims, in the usual sense of that phrase.
That is: I think we all create every minute detail of our reality. However, in the conventional sense in which people act as if things happened to them without their consent or choice, some experiences feel like one is a victim. I think the secret is that Moon-Pluto makes choices so deeply in subconscious that they are powerfully creating reality at a level to which they are completely oblivious.
The sense of "act like a victim because they enjoy it" is Neptune.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:29 am
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:Thank you Jim, that clarifies Pluto vs Neptune. I saw myself in the description (not really wanting to admit it). I also have moon-pluto, but also mars-saturn, mars in libra and moon in virgo, which probably make things worse but have not manifested like the ordeal Amanda Knox has to face.
Do you think certain things cannot be seen from the natal chart or return chart alone? How about mundane astrology used in synastry with a personal chart?
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:30 am
by Jim Eshelman
Freya wrote:Do you think certain things cannot be seen from the natal chart or return chart alone? How about mundane astrology used in synastry with a personal chart?
I think the patterns are always present in the natal chart and its predictive extensions (transits, progressions, return charts). Of course, the particular way one manifests those energies is related to individual choice. (Astrology helps you be conscious of the energies so that you can actually make a choice.)
I have not seen mundane charts directly interacting with natal charts. The seem to affect individuals only to the extent that individuals are part of the masses.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:31 am
by Jim Eshelman
Mar 27, 2015
Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Amanda Knox and her ex-boyfriend had their convictions overturned by Italy's Supreme Court about an hour ago (don't have exact time.)
This is final. No more double jeopardy trials for either of them, even if it makes the prosecutor look like a self-serving jerk.
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:31 am
by Jim Eshelman
Thanks. Saw that but hadn't had time to track down the thread. - Somebody want to work up the charts?
Re: Amanda Knox - did she do it?
Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:31 am
by Jim Eshelman
SteveS wrote:Imo, this benefic news for Amanda is symbolized and timed by t. Jupiter partile cnj her secondary progressed Sun and t. Venus maturing to a partile 90 to her sp Sun. March 25th Demi-Lunar for Seattle features Venus cnj Dsc.