Testing SSR & Demi-SSR strengths

[Jim Eshelman]

I have some time today, and want to do a pilot on the relative strength of the SSR and Demi-SSR. I haven't done anything really systematic ever, and nothing taking a concentrated look in decades.

As a sample - remember, I want a sample that was not selected just for this purpose - I will use the birth data in Chapter 31 of Sidereal Mundane Astrology. It includes the birth data of individuals who were directly involved in the mundane events studied in the book. I originally gathered this so people could examine the question of impact of mundane charts on individual charts. I won't use anything less than B-rated data. The events for testing will be the well-timed mundane events in the book to which they are connected.

I will tally three groups of charts: (1) SSRs for events in the first half of the birthday year. (2) SSRs for events in the second half of the birthday year. (3) Demi-SSR for events in the second half of the birthday year. Every chart will get a -3 to +3 rating, using the same standards of scoring as for the mundane charts. (These are given at the end of the "Working Principles" chapter in SMA.)

Here are the B-of-better birth data. I've left a few that are rated lower (Gandhi) because I have specific reasons - before calculating the charts - to think that these data is quality and accurate.

B Abraham Lincoln, 1809 Feb 12, 6:54 AM (“sunup”), Hodgenville, KY
AA Al Gore, 1948 Mar 31, 12:53 PM EST, Washington, DC
AA Buzz Aldrin, 1930 Jan 20, 2:17 PM, Glen Ridge, NJ
AA Charles Whitman, 1941 Jun 24, 1:50 AM, Lake Worth, FL
AA Christa McAuliffe, 1948 Sep 2, 10:13 PM, Boston, MA
AA Edward White, 1930 Nov 14, 6:20 AM, Fort Sam Houston, TX
AA Frank Borman, 1928 Mar 14, 7:30 PM, Gary, IN
AA Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1882 Jan 30, 8:45 PM, Hyde Park, NY
AA George Moscone, 1929 Nov 24, 4:00 AM, San Francisco, CA
AA George W. Bush, 1946 July 6, 7:26 AM, New Haven, CT
AA Gerald R. Ford, 1913 Jul 14, 12:43 AM, Omaha, NE
A Harvey Milk, 1930 May 22, 1:30 AM, Woodmere, NY
A James A. Garfield, 1831 Nov 19, 2:00 AM, Orange, OH
AA James Lovell, 1928 Mar 25, 2:10 AM, Cleveland, OH
AA Jim Jones, 1931 May 13, 10:00 PM, Lynn, IN
A John F. Kennedy, 1917 May 29, 3:00 PM, Brookline, MA
AA John Glenn, 1921 Jul 18m 4:00 PM, Cambridge, OH
AA King Edward VII, 1841 Nov 9, 10:48 AM, London, England
AA King Edward VIII, 1894 Jun 23, 9:55 PM, Richmond, England
A Martin Luther King, Jr., 1929 Jan 15, 12:00 PM, Atlanta, GA
C Mohandas Gandhi, 1869 Oct 2, 7:08:11 AM , Porbandar, India
AA Neil Armstrong, 1930 Aug 5, 12:31 AM, Wapakoneta, OH
A Prince Charles, 1948 Nov 14, 9:14 PM, Buckingham Palace, England
A Princess Diana, 1961 Jul 1, 7:45 PM, Sandringham, England
AA Queen Elizabeth II, 1926 Apr 21, 2:40 AM, London, England
AA Richard M. Nixon, 1913 Jan 9, 9:35 PM, Yorba Linda, CA
AA Richard Speck, 1941 Dec 6, 1:00 AM, Kirkwood, IL
A Robert F. Kennedy, 1925 Nov 20, 3:11 PM, Brookline, MA
AA Roger Chaffee, 1935 Feb 15, 3:00 AM, Grand Rapids, MI
A Virgil “Gus” Grissom, 1926 Apr 3, 6:00 PM, Mitchell, IN
A Warren G. Harding, 1865 Nov 2, 2:30 PM, Blooming Grove, OH
A William McKinley, 1843 Jan 29, 11:32 PM, Niles, OH

[Jim Eshelman]

Abraham Lincoln, 1809 Feb 12, 6:54 AM (“sunup”), Hodgenville, KY
Murder: +2 (Saturn w/ r Moon-Mars)

Buzz Aldrin, 1930 Jan 20, 2:17 PM, Glen Ridge, NJ
Apollo 11 launch: +2 (r Jupiter close, 2 Neptunes wide, Moon op r Neptune)

Charles Whitman, 1941 Jun 24, 1:50 AM, Lake Worth, FL
Austin Tower Murders: +1 (Moon-Mars sq. Venus Uranus Pluto widely fore. r Jupiter, some Uranus)

Christa McAuliffe, 1948 Sep 2, 10:13 PM, Boston, MA
Challenger explosion: +1 (Mo-Pl, r Neptune - weak showing, barely qualifies)

Edward White, 1930 Nov 14, 6:20 AM, Fort Sam Houston, TX
Apollo 1 fire: +3 (Mo-Ma-Sa-Pl T, Mercury angular, 0' Sun-Neptune widely angular; r Ve, Me)

Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1882 Jan 30, 8:45 PM, Hyde Park, NY
Died: +2 (Su-Pl on angles. Mo-Ju exact conj op. Venus; r Ve-Sa wider; Pl to r Sa)

George Moscone, 1929 Nov 24, 4:00 AM, San Francisco, CA
Murder: +3 (Ma-Ne close, Me wider, Sa sq Asc close; r Mo-Ju exactly aspected by Saturn)

George W. Bush, 1946 July 6, 7:26 AM, New Haven, CT
Bush v Gore: +2 (Jupiter & Uranus, lesser Sa & Pl; r Ma close, Ve, Pl, Ur wider; t Ur = r Ve)

Gerald R. Ford, 1913 Jul 14, 12:43 AM, Omaha, NE
Nixon resignation: +2 (maybe +1) (Venus, Pluto [MC], Mercury, Neptune; Mo-Ma close square; Me-Pl sq on angles; r Sa setting, Ne op r Ve)

Gerald R. Ford, 1913 Jul 14, 12:43 AM, Omaha, NE
Murder attempt: +2 (Exact Su-Sa widely angular; r Ma exact to IC, Me on WP; r Ur, Ne widely angular. Moon partile sq his Jupiter [he survived two attempted murders the same month in roughly the same place])

Harry S Truman, 1884 May 8, 4:00 PM, Larmar, MO
Presidency & Hiroshima: +2 (Sa & Ju widely fore, r Uranus exactly angular, r Venus wide [afflicted]; borders on +1 or +2)

John F. Kennedy, 1917 May 29, 3:00 PM, Brookline, MA
Murdered: -1 (Jupiter exactly on MC, Moon to Sun-Pluto; r Sa-Sa rising, Saturn closest)
NOTE:

Lee Harvey Oswald, 1939 Oct 18, 9:55 PM, New Orleans, LA
JFK & LHO Murdered: +3 (Mo-Ne sq Sa on angles, Ve & Ma widely fore; r Ma exactly angular, r Ur, Me wider; Mo to r Me-Ma)

King Edward VII, 1841 Nov 9, 10:48 AM, London, England
Coronation: +1 (Moon & Uranus close, & precise mundo conj.; Venus wider; s Moon sq. r Venus; r Neptune exactly on IC)

King Edward VIII, 1894 Jun 23, 9:55 PM, Richmond, England
Abdicated: +1 (Mo-Me, wider Mo-Ne; Mo & Ur widely foreground; r Mo & Ur closely on angles, Ve more widely)

Martin Luther King, Jr., 1929 Jan 15, 12:00 PM, Atlanta, GA
Murdered: 0 (Sun on MC, Mo-Me op. sq Asc)

Mohandas Gandhi, 1869 Oct 2, 7:08:11 AM , Porbandar, India
Murder: +3 (Mars exactly on MC, Mercury on r Mercury rising, Me-Ma sq.; Mo-Ju exact op.)

Princess Diana, 1961 Jul 1, 7:45 PM, Sandringham, England
Wedding: +3 (Venus closely sets, Moon-Sun conj. close; several natal planets incl. Jupiter closest)

Princess Diana, 1961 Jul 1, 7:45 PM, Sandringham, England
Death: +2 (Saturn close, Mars wider; Mercury-Saturn sq.; r Neptune wide, M o sq r Pluto)

Queen Elizabeth II, 1926 Apr 21, 2:40 AM, London, England
Coronation: +2 (Sun & Moon exactly angular, 20' Moon-Sun sq.)

Robert F. Kennedy, 1925 Nov 20, 3:11 PM, Brookline, MA
Murder: +1 (Sun exactly rising, Ju & Ne wider' Moon-Mars closely op.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Al Gore, 1948 Mar 31, 12:53 PM EST, Washington, DC
Bush v Gore: +3 (Uranus 01' & Saturn closely on angles + a weaker Jupiter, Mars, & Moon. r Mars & weaker Saturn-Pluto on MC sq. t Saturn; vs. SSR Moon sq. r Venus)

Frank Borman, 1928 Mar 14, 7:30 PM, Gary, IN
Apollo 8 launch: -2 (Saturn exactly sq. Asc; barely Mars; mundo Mo-Pl 05' conj; r Jupiter conj Asc, t Sa = r Ju; r Pluto setting)

Harvey Milk, 1930 May 22, 1:30 AM, Woodmere, NY
Murdered: +1 (Exact Full Moon angular; Me close, Ur & Pl wide; angular Ur-Pl mundo conj 50'; r Me)

James A. Garfield, 1831 Nov 19, 2:00 AM, Orange, OH
Murdered & died: +3
(Saturn partile, Neptune close, Mars wider, Sun wide; Ma op r Moon in fore, r Mars close fore, r Neptune exactly on MC sq by Saturn partile)
NOTE: Moved to Elberon, NJ where he died (was shot in DC), similar chart gains some, loses some, makes t Neptune easy leader, makes Mars stronger, loses Sa & its angular aspect to r Ne)

James Lovell, 1928 Mar 25, 2:10 AM, Cleveland, OH
Apollo 8 launch: +1 (Mo-Ju exact op., on r Neptune, nothing angular; r Moon widely fore; accurate but weak)

Jim Jones, 1931 May 13, 10:00 PM, Lynn, IN
Jonestown: +1 (r Neptune is most angular; Moon moderate orb to Mars-Uranus sq, widely angular Neptune; it's weak, but what's there is accurate)

John Glenn, 1921 Jul 18m 4:00 PM, Cambridge, OH
Friendship 7: +2 (Mo-Me partile, Mars exactly angular, wider Pluto; Venus on r Venus, both sq Asc & Mars; r Jupiter setting closely, Uranus next closest, Saturn more widely)

Neil Armstrong, 1930 Aug 5, 12:31 AM, Wapakoneta, OH
Apollo 11 launch: +3 (Mars & Mars exactly angular, Sun more widely angular, Moon-Uranus sq.)

Prince Charles, 1948 Nov 14, 9:14 PM, Buckingham Palace, England
Wedding: +1 (Mars exactly angular; wider Ju, Sa, Ne; mundo Mo-Su sq.; r Ma Ju Ur with Neptune exactly conj. r Mars; Mo exactly op. r Pluto)

Princess Elizabeth, 1926 Apr 21, 2:40 AM, London, England
Wedding: +1 (Pluto exactly rising, Saturn wider, Me Ma Ne wide; these form severe foreground aspects; Moon-Sun conjunction, Mo sq Asc; rising Pluto conjoins natal Moon)

Richard M. Nixon, 1913 Jan 9, 9:35 PM, Yorba Linda, CA
Resignation: +2 (Wide Sa Su Me; r Me Ma Ju Pl wide; Saturn conj. r Pluto exact, op. r Me Ma Ju close; Mo op. r Moon)

Richard Speck, 1941 Dec 6, 1:00 AM, Kirkwood, IL
Murders: +1 (Moon exactly angular, Neptune & r Saturn wider; t Ne op. r Sa)

Roger Chaffee, 1935 Feb 15, 3:00 AM, Grand Rapids, MI
Apollo 1 fire: +2 (Saturn & Uranus closely angular, Mars & Pluto wider, Jupiter wide; Sa-Ur-Pl op; r Ne @ MC, r Venus exactly on IC, r Ve conj t Sa & op Ur-Pl)

Virgil “Gus” Grissom, 1926 Apr 3, 6:00 PM, Mitchell, IN
Apollo 1 fire: +1 (Mo-Me-Ju-Sa T; Mo-Pl mundane conj close; Mars barely fore; r Pluto closely angular)

Warren G. Harding, 1865 Nov 2, 2:30 PM, Blooming Grove, OH
Death: +1 (Close Moon-Saturn op., wide Moon-Sun op., conj. r Moon; r Jupiter widely fore; borderline whether to give it a point, but the one close factor is correct)

William McKinley, 1843 Jan 29, 11:32 PM, Niles, OH
Murder: +1 (Exact Moon-Neptune conj.; Uranus & Pluto closely angular, opposed; r Ve-Ur widely angular, aspected by Moon-Neptune)

[Jim Eshelman]

Al Gore, 1948 Mar 31, 12:53 PM EST, Washington, DC
Bush v Gore: +2 (Uranus & Saturn closely angular; r Mars exactly sq Asc, r Saturn more widely, t Uranus op. r Mars-Saturn; r Venus sq MC)

Frank Borman, 1928 Mar 14, 7:30 PM, Gary, IN
Apollo 8 launch: -1 (Mars-Neptune, Moon-Saturn sq.; r Neptune on MC, t Ma = r Ne 16', op. r Mercury-Venus on IC; I'd buy the Ma-Ne in a second, but the whole is too travel-tragedy)

Harvey Milk, 1930 May 22, 1:30 AM, Woodmere, NY
Murdered: +2 (Pluto partile MC, moderate Mo-Sa conj; various natal but Ma & Pl are closest)

James A. Garfield, 1831 Nov 19, 2:00 AM, Orange, OH
Murdered & died: +1 (Wide angular Mars, Moon widely conj r Neptune; not too impressive, but the weak factors are at least correct)
NOTE: Moved to Elberon, NJ where he died weeks later. Mars is slightly closer to angles than DC where he was shot. No other change.

James Lovell, 1928 Mar 25, 2:10 AM, Cleveland, OH
Apollo 8 launch: +2 (Me-Ve conj closely angular, Mo-Ju sq. 01', but Moon conj r Saturn 13' so no +3)

Jim Jones, 1931 May 13, 10:00 PM, Lynn, IN
Jonestown: 0 (Nothing transiting angular. r Moon exactly rising, r Ur & Ju fore aspected by non-angular Pluto)

John Glenn, 1921 Jul 18m 4:00 PM, Cambridge, OH
Friendship 7: +2 (Moon conj r Venus rising, sq. r Uranus, sq. s Pluto; s Uranus moderately foreground, mundane Mo-Ur)

Neil Armstrong, 1930 Aug 5, 12:31 AM, Wapakoneta, OH
Apollo 11 launch: +2 Pluto exactly setting; Sa, Ju, Ur wider; Mo-Me op.; r Jupiter on IC, r Saturn wider on MC, r Uranus exactly rising)

Prince Charles, 1948 Nov 14, 9:14 PM, Buckingham Palace, England
Wedding: +1 (Mo-Ne close; Mars widely fore; r Mercury exactly rising, wider Pl & Mo)

Princess Elizabeth, 1926 Apr 21, 2:40 AM, London, England
Wedding: +3 (Venus exactly angular, partile sq. Mars, near-partile sq. Pluto; wider Jupiter fore; partile Mo-Ju sq.; the Ve-Ma-Pl is on natal Moon; r Venus sq. Asc exactly)

Richard M. Nixon, 1913 Jan 9, 9:35 PM, Yorba Linda, CA
Resignation: +2 (Exact Mo-Ur exactly sq Asc; wider So-Su; Su fore; mundo Mo-Pl 05'; r Neptune closely angular & sq. s Moon; r Uranus wider)

Richard Speck, 1941 Dec 6, 1:00 AM, Kirkwood, IL
Murders: -1 (Mo-Ju exact; mundo Moon-Neptune; foreground Sun & Uranus in sq, & hitting r Jupiter)

Roger Chaffee, 1935 Feb 15, 3:00 AM, Grand Rapids, MI
Apollo 1 fire: 0 (Moon rising)

Virgil “Gus” Grissom, 1926 Apr 3, 6:00 PM, Mitchell, IN
Apollo 1 fire: -2 (Me & Ju closely angular & square; Moon closely setting)

Warren G. Harding, 1865 Nov 2, 2:30 PM, Blooming Grove, OH
Died: +1 (Uranus closely angular, Pluto wider (sq. by Venus); Moon widely op. Me & Ma; r Uranus precisely rising, Jupiter widely; the whole message seems to be surprise more than anything else)

William McKinley, 1843 Jan 29, 11:32 PM, Niles, OH
Murder: +2 (Jupiter exactly angular, wider Neptune, Mars, Saturn; exact Mars-Saturn square fore; Moon-Pluto square; r Ve-Ur widely angular)

[Jim Eshelman]

SSRs for 1st half of birthday year
+3: 5 (24%)
+2: 9 (43%)
+1: 5 (24%)
0: 1 (5%)
-1: 1 (5%)
-2: 0 (0%)
-3: 0 (0%)
Average: 1.8

SSRs for 2nd half of birthday year
+3: 3 (19%)
+2: 3 (19%)
+1: 9 (56%)
0: 0 (0%)
-1: 0 (0%)
-2: 1 6%)
Average: 1.4


Demi-SSRs for 2nd half of birthday year
+3: 1 (6%)
+2: 7 (44%)
+1: 3 (19%)
0: 2 (13%)
-1: 2 (13%)
-2: 1 (6%)
Average: 1.0

[Jim Eshelman]

We can draw some broad generalizations from these numbers. The sample isn't large enough for me to be confident it is giving final answers, but it's large enough to give some answers.

The underlying question, of course, is whether the Demi-Solar Return is strong enough for us to bother calculating it. The answers are mixed, but we should look to see what they are.

First: The strongest-scoring category is the full SSR for the first half of the birthday year when there is no question about the influence of the Demi-SSR. This may be a consequence of the SSR having no "competition" from another layer of solar return. For this first half of the year, the average score is just below a 2, meaning VERY GOOD. A few are better , a few are worse, and only 10% fall below the "Good" level. Nothing is terrible (-2).

Second: The full SSR for the second half of the year is not quite as good. (Remember, the sample size is small, so this is not definitive.) I'm not so concerned about the average score being a little lower, and closer to +1 (Good) than the +2 from the first group. Rather, what catches my eye is that the majority of the entries are +1. Typically these second semester SSRs are merely "good," whereas typically the first semester SSRs are "very good." I think we can take this at face value.

Third: Finally, we come to the Demi-SSRs. Two things are interesting to me here. First, the average score is the lowest of them all, but this is because there are more with negative scores (more individual returns that were contrary to the nature of the event). On the other hand, the majority of the charts are again +2. In this regard, they score as well as the first group, and noticeably better than the second group. When they are good, the Demi-SSRs are better than the SSRs that they overlap; but they also have some tendency to be "wrong" more often.

These paradoxical findings may explain the ambivalence of casual observations of Demi-SSRs over the years.

[Jim Eshelman]

Finally, I want to compare the SSR and Demi-SSR side by side for those events in the last half of the birthday year, by seeing how often one has a better score than the other.

The outcome is... the full SSR is the better chart a little more often than the Demi. They aren't that far apart. But, if you need to trust just one, you should trust the SSR if you want to be correct more often than not.

Full SSR is better
Al Gore +3 / +2
James A. Garfield +3 / +1
Jim Jones +1 / 0
Neil Armstrong +3 / +2
Richard Speck +1 / -1
Roger Chaffee +2 / 0
Virgil “Gus” Grissom +1 / -2

They are about the same
John Glenn +2 / +2
Prince Charles +1 / +1
Richard M. Nixon +2 / +2
Warren G. Harding +1 / +1

Demi-SSR is better
Frank Borman -2 / -1
Harvey Milk +1 / +2
James Lovell +1 / +2
Princess Elizabeth +1 / +3
William McKinley +1 / +2


The full SSR is better seven times, the Demi-SSR is better five times, and they are about the same four times.

Of the 7 times the full SSR is better, the Demi is neutral or wrong three times - almost half. Of the 5 times the Demi is better, the full SSR is only wrong once. This means BTW that if we had relied ONLY on the full SSR in these 16 examples, we would only have been out-and-out wrong one time (6%), though we might not have been as right as possible all the time.

Conclusion: It seems we are right both to consider the Demi-SSR a viable chart AND not to put overly much emphasis on it.

Future work: If anyone is interested in digging further (I'm worn out at the moment), I might suggest, in the 16 side-by-side pairs, looking for similarities vs. differences between the two charts in each pair. I'm curious whether one or the other is more likely to be right if it more resembles or more differs from the other. I haven't thought of a specific way to quantify this, but attentive inspection might give a clue.

[Arena]

It simply makes no sense to me in a rational/logical sense that there would be anything at all to a demi chart. So those you have showing some resonance I would say is more likely to just be coincidences.

Either we work with the idea that our birthdays are significant days in our lives that create a "new natal" or a static chart that is the theme of a whole year - or we don't. If we don't work with that idea, then we just work with transits and progressions.

That's my 2 cents. I work by the KISS principle

[Jim Eshelman]

I try not to go on theory for things like this; and, if I did, the most compelling point would be that Demi-Lunars are every bit as good as full SLRs.

But the outcome of the study does confirm observation that the Demi-SSR is not the equal of thr SSR.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

A conjunction to the sun is powerful, but you can't say the opposition isn't also powerful. If you look at the demis that way, they make more sense intellectually.
But of course, when what we observe goes against the theories we've come up with or the elegant explanations or (especially) schematism and our desire for symmetry, we can't just dismiss it. We have to remake our thought experiments to fit the observed facts or we're no better than the scientists who thought it all over in their heads and decided astrology is rubbish.

[Arena]

Well, to prevent any possible misunderstanding, I was not suggesting to ignore or dismiss any evidence or possible clues we might get from available data. But I was just stating what makes sense to me and that the above does not give warrant to be substantial in the way to be considered evidence of anything other than being a coincidence. But my view on being logical with this may also just be coloured by the fact that I rarely/almost never look at demis because they've not given me enough to go on to explore them more.

[SteveS]

FWIW, here are my thoughts on the Demi SSR’s with long experience with my family and friends. If the SSR shows dormant angular activity with no significant lunar aspects, and the Demi shows major non-dormant angular activity with tight aspects, OR, major tight lunar aspects, I certainly would not ignore the Demi. In other words, I let tight angular aspected activity and major tight lunar aspects determine if I pay any attention to the Demi SSR.

[DDonovanKinsolving]

... dormant angular activity ... non-dormant angular activity

SteveS, what do you mean? Are you referring to latant parans by the first phrase; and what is the second?

-Derek

[SteveS]

Derek, by ‘dormant’—no planets within 3.5 to an angle, by ‘non-dormant’ planets within 3.5 degrees to an angle, all measured by prime vertical mundoscope. ‘Dormant’ and ‘Non-Dormant’ are terminology words coined by Jim with his Sidereal Mundane Astrology work involving the angles, which I now like applying with my Sidereal Astrology chart work outside the Natal Chart. I am basically an event orientated Sidereal Astrologer with myself/friends/family. I look for charts which I think will ‘time’ important incidents in a person’s life, relative to what I understand/know is happening within their immediate environment, provided that person is looking for the TIME when an important desired incident will occur in their life, based on there practical working life objectives.

[Jim Eshelman]

Or to paraphrase, Derek: Steve is using the same terminology I coined for Sidereal ingresses. With ingresses, the whole chart for a specific location does substantially act dormant if nothing is within sufficiently tight angle contact to distinguish a particular location from the rest of the world.

In personal charts, such as solar and lunar returns, one difference is that wider angularities don't stop the chart from operating. We've all seen hundreds of charts where nothing is angular but one planet 8° off, and that planet dominates the period of the chart. But Steve is especially interested in big events, and these seem to result only from very tight angularity combined with partile, or near-partile acute aspects, so he's using "non-dormant" as a smoother version of saying "with planets in the immediate foreground."

[DDonovanKinsolving]

I understand now. Thank you both.

-Derek