Possibly wrong birth time?

[Antares5]

How likely is it that someone is born an hour earlier than what the recorded birth time suggests?

I was examining my past solar and lunar returns, as well as transits to my angles (for significant events, as well as life periods). I came to the conclusion that my birth time of 5 pm doesn't make much sense.

Shifting the birth time up or down by a few minutes obviously doesn't change much. So I tried to move it by an hour up and down.

The birth time of 6pm, while hitting it better than the default time of 5pm, still had very inconsistent results (along with giving me a Taurus moon and Neptune angularity, which just doesn't fit at all).

Now the birth time of 4pm gave some really good results. A few examples :

August 25th 2016 Very significant event. Not going into details, but this one pushed my life back on track after "stagnating" for the last 3 years. Mars-Saturn conjunction on the ASC.

A month later September 26th 2016 Career high point. Sun-Jupiter conjunction on the Midheaven.

Solar return 2017 Fallen in love with a girl (maybe I will start a topic about it in the synastry section). Didn't happen since 2008 and I honestly lost hope that it would ever happen again. Solar return features both transiting and natal Venus foreground on the ASC of the return chart. It happened out of the blue. It caught me by surprise and the relationship started very quickly. I credit this to Uranus + Venus on the DSC of the Lunar return.

There are some more significant events of past years transits and solar returns, but I don't want to list all of them. You get the idea.

So what do you think?

[Jim Eshelman]

How likely is it that someone is born an hour earlier than what the recorded birth time suggests?

In Chicago or Pennsylvania, it's quite common as a matter of law. In other places, it is exceptionally rare in a medical environment, but increasingly frequent if relying on a mother's memory of a second, third, fourth, or fifth child.

What's the source of your birth information?

[Antares5]

How likely is it that someone is born an hour earlier than what the recorded birth time suggests?

In Chicago or Pennsylvania, it's quite common as a matter of law. In other places, it is exceptionally rare in a medical environment, but increasingly frequent if relying on a mother's memory of a second, third, fourth, or fifth child.

What's the source of your birth information?

It's the birth certificate. Hospital records. By the way I am born in Bosnia.

[Jim Eshelman]

How likely is it that someone is born an hour earlier than what the recorded birth time suggests?

In Chicago or Pennsylvania, it's quite common as a matter of law. In other places, it is exceptionally rare in a medical environment, but increasingly frequent if relying on a mother's memory of a second, third, fourth, or fifth child.

What's the source of your birth information?

It's the birth certificate. Hospital records. By the way I am born in Bosnia.

I don't know about expected accuracy, though it would surprise me if modern hospitals were this far off. - Danica is from Serbia, and has been doing astrology a lot of years - maybe she has some insight on hospital birth record accuracy?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Born in August. Under Summer time, perhaps?
Or are you using Summer time and your city didn't at the time you were born?
If you're not living where you were born, are you casting charts for the right time zone?

[Jim Eshelman]

You posted your birth time as:

Name on forum : Antares5
Birth date : August 5, 1988
Birth time : 5:05 pm
Birth place : Bijeljina (Bosnia)
Current residence : Tuzla (Bosnia)
Source : mom (birth certificate says it's 5:08 pm)

Bijeljina was on CEDT - Central European Time zone, but summer time. That makes the time 2 hours later than Greenwich, instead of 1 hour. 5:08 PM CEDT is the same as 4:08 PM standard time, or 3:08 PM GMT (15:08 UT).

If it helps confirm your calculations, for 5:05 PM Your Midheaven is 26°54' Virgo, Ascendant 0°23' Sagittarius, with Saturn and Uranus very closely rising and Venus closely setting.

[Antares5]

Born in August. Under Summer time, perhaps?
Or are you using Summer time and your city didn't at the time you were born?
If you're not living where you were born, are you casting charts for the right time zone?

Well that's the big question that I have been asking myself. Summer time should have been in use for Yugoslavia in 1988. My parents said it wasn't. That they can't remember having to adjust the clock before the war in 1992. Now I am not really sure if the clocks in the hospital were adjusted or not. But if they were not using summer time, shouldn't it put my birth time an hour LATER rather than earlier?

The birth time of an hour earlier seems very accurate as far as solar returns, lunar returns and transits to the angles are concerned.

[Antares5]

You posted your birth time as:

Name on forum : Antares5
Birth date : August 5, 1988
Birth time : 5:05 pm
Birth place : Bijeljina (Bosnia)
Current residence : Tuzla (Bosnia)
Source : mom (birth certificate says it's 5:08 pm)

Bijeljina was on CEDT - Central European Time zone, but summer time. That makes the time 2 hours later than Greenwich, instead of 1 hour. 5:08 PM CEDT is the same as 4:08 PM standard time, or 3:08 PM GMT (15:08 UT).

If it helps confirm your calculations, for 5:05 PM Your Midheaven is 26°54' Virgo, Ascendant 0°23' Sagittarius, with Saturn and Uranus very closely rising and Venus closely setting.

Yes, that's my "default" birth time. I have been posting earlier about my dissatisfaction with the returns. I remember posting about one Lunar return (it was either October or November last year), where I had Pluto, Uranus and Jupiter angular in the Lunar return chart and expected some big stuff to happen. But nope, just a boring month with no significant events.

I also asked you about Saturn angularity and why this one doesn't seem to fit me. While you brought up some good reasons why I choose not to display the Saturn type of behaviour (because of my Aries moon mainly), looking back at it, I think it's the consequence of the Saturn-Venus opposition in my chart rather than a Saturn angularity. A Saturn that is so close to my ASC should be very prominent, which just isn't the case for me.

[Antares5]

Solar return 2017 Fallen in love with a girl (maybe I will start a topic about it in the synastry section).

Yes, please

I will. I would really love to hear some of your opinions, because it was a really strange relationship.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Well that's the big question that I have been asking myself. Summer time should have been in use for Yugoslavia in 1988. My parents said it wasn't. That they can't remember having to adjust the clock before the war in 1992. Now I am not really sure if the clocks in the hospital were adjusted or not. But if they were not using summer time, shouldn't it put my birth time an hour LATER rather than earlier?

Time for some research. Start on the internet. You may have to check local libraries for local historical records, and may have to check with the government. There are records somewhere. Perhaps even an announcement in the newspapers.
Here's a start: https://www.timeanddate.com/time/change ... ?year=1988
I just googled Time Change Bosnia 1988 and that was just the first hit.

I was born under DST. A clock time of 6 PM needs an hour subtracted to get Standard Time before being converted to Sidereal Time. But then I relocated to a place that didn't use DST when I was born, and is in an earlier time zone. So for that place, I have to subtract two hours to get Standard Time. So 6 PM clock time where I was born becomes 4 PM clock time where I moved to.

Time changes are kind of a mess. You really have to research them. But Summer Time or Daylight Savings Time adds an hour to the Standard Time. If your birth certificate says 6 PM, and you were born under Summer Time, you'd subtract an hour to get Standard Time. I don't know how you calculated the Sidereal Time of your chart.

[Jim Eshelman]

The best references say that summer time was in use where you were born, but that doesn't mean it was consistently applied.

If summer time WAS used to record your birth time, then 5:08 PM is 3:08 PM GMT. We have been calculating your chart based on this assumption.

However, if summer time was NOT in use in the hospital, then 5:08 (as there recorded) is 4:08 PM GMT, an hour later.

[Antares5]

Well that's the big question that I have been asking myself. Summer time should have been in use for Yugoslavia in 1988. My parents said it wasn't. That they can't remember having to adjust the clock before the war in 1992. Now I am not really sure if the clocks in the hospital were adjusted or not. But if they were not using summer time, shouldn't it put my birth time an hour LATER rather than earlier?

Time for some research. Start on the internet. You may have to check local libraries for local historical records, and may have to check with the government. There are records somewhere. Perhaps even an announcement in the newspapers.
Here's a start: https://www.timeanddate.com/time/change ... ?year=1988
I just googled Time Change Bosnia 1988 and that was just the first hit.

I was born under DST. A clock time of 6 PM needs an hour subtracted to get Standard Time before being converted to Sidereal Time. But then I relocated to a place that didn't use DST when I was born, and is in an earlier time zone. So for that place, I have to subtract two hours to get Standard Time. So 6 PM clock time where I was born becomes 4 PM clock time where I moved to.

Time changes are kind of a mess. You really have to research them. But Summer Time or Daylight Savings Time adds an hour to the Standard Time. If your birth certificate says 6 PM, and you were born under Summer Time, you'd subtract an hour to get Standard Time. I don't know how you calculated the Sidereal Time of your chart.

Yeah, I will do some research. But I really doubt that they have some of the birth informations of the hospital on the internet.

I didn't do any calculations regarding the sidereal time. I just used Solar Fire to calculate my charts.

[Antares5]

The best references say that summer time was in use where you were born, but that doesn't mean it was consistently applied.

If summer time WAS used to record your birth time, then 5:08 PM is 3:08 PM GMT. We have been calculating your chart based on this assumption.

However, if summer time was NOT in use in the hospital, then 5:08 (as there recorded) is 4:08 PM GMT, an hour later.

So you're saying that it's more likely that I was born an hour later rather than earlier?

[Jim Eshelman]

If there is an error, and if the error is as a result of a time zone issue, then yes: The possible time zone recording error would push the birth time an hour later.

[Antares5]

If there is an error, and if the error is as a result of a time zone issue, then yes: The possible time zone recording error would push the birth time an hour later.

Ok, thank you.

[Danica]

Does she have the birth certificate available to look up the time?

[Pinball]

Antares5

your chart is great.
Are you a pilot? (You could be a pilot with this chart.)

Factors: Uranus in 1st, Sun in Cancer, Saturn strong.

A pilot who runs old machines.
Midheaven in virgo means you would be very skilled in being manual.
Scorpio ascendant means you could care for war machines in the background.

Sun in 8th house is not too bad. It means generosity.

We look at the ruler of the 10th house to see your influence.
Mercury in 8th house. Influence is subdued but there's strong technical work.

Pilots usually use their mind alot.
You have uranus in 1st house, which is not that bad.
2 house in capricorn shows your head.

In Medical Astrology 2 house is head. Your head is very robotic looking, as capricorn suggests, but saturn in 1st house suggests your head is auric.
(auric means aura-seen)

A pilot has alot of influence in life, one cannot say that pilots are bad. Pilots care for their wives.

Your wife: You Have Taurus/gemini on 7th Cusp:

this by itself means a good house-wife.
Venus strong in gemini.

Sun conjunct Mercury is always the sign of the specialist. Together with Uranus in 1 this means you're a strong force.

Your pluto is nicely in 10.

Hobbywise you could be into painting (Pluto)

Antares5, how is your life? have you relocated?

(There is a suggestion in the chart you could relocate to america, or another place)

Relocation is helpful.

Your transits show that you are unique at the moment

Uniqueness comes from psychology

Your psychology must be great.

Its a feeling I have

Enemies: Your enemies are there though. Saturn in 1st --

enemies are there

Your painting style could be radical (Pluto)

...theres more

(You could also become a magician with this chart)

A real one

Hope this helps

Your a real strong force

Partners you could like: We have Moon in 5th house and 7 house in Gemini

You like partners that bring luck in your life

Saturn in sagittarius means youre a good philosopher

Thats it Hope this helps

P

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Pinball: What kind of astrology are you using?

[Soft Alpaca]

Pinball is using a style format type of astrology traditional vedic astrologers who try to simplify their ways into western (normally tropical) charts, for newer western astrologers. Its starts with a point the astrologer sees and goes from there, ironically kind of like a pinball [some more professional astrologers have formulas however most I've seen do not].

As someone who was born in Pennsylvania and who questions the integrity of their birth time I understand your struggle antares5. My grandma, mom and dad only recall that they left the hospital at the bleak of dawn on a cloudy winter day that was slightly flurrieing snow lol.