A Fagan Observation With a Successful Predictive Method for SLR’s.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:27 am

Fagan wrote from one of his American Astrology articles:

Transits and the Lunar Return:
In regard to the more rapidly moving planets, their transits only become significant if they should closely configure the birth planets on the date of a lunar return. For example, if Mars should be in exact opposition, conjunction, or to a lesser extent, square the radical sun on the date of a lunar return there will be a liability of an accident, hurt or illness. Otherwise such a transit may pass without anything untoward occurring. So it is always advisable to note all the transits to the birth planets, especially to the natal moon, that are exact or nearly so, on the date of a lunar return for they are certain to be effective. Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits. Cyril Fagan

Last week I experience two excellent examples of Fagan’s noted Janma-Rasi methods of monthly predictions, one for myself and one for my friend’s current SLR. I ask other interested members to monitor their own possible partile/tight fast moving planets on the Day of their SLR, and post if you note important manifestations. These type transits to your Natal Planets will rarely occur only on the DAY and TIME of your SLR's.

Fagan in the above quote is telling us that Janma-Rasi method “has proved so astonishingly successful.” These quoted words are peaking my interest after my personal experiences last week with excellent examples for Janma-Rasi method of monthly predictions.

Example 1 in next post.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:06 am

Example 1:
My current SLR (Inside Wheel) with Transits (Outside Wheel) which began at 7:48:14 PM on June 25:
https://imgur.com/a/O5PbIbV
The mental manifestations first appeared to my mind on June 24th –one day before my June SLR began. It is sometimes normal to start seeing manifestations a day earlier which I know with my own experiences and is very consistent with Jim’s teachings about SLR’s.

Note in above link bi-wheel for my SLR and Transits: t. Mercury partile cnj my Natal Mars. Ebertin from his book ‘Combinations of Stellar Influences’ says about the ‘Principle’ of Mercury-Mars combos:

Powers of thought, the realizations of thoughts and plans.

Folks, I here to tell you there is no doubt in my mind—the above Principle for this Mercury-Mars combo is exactly what manifested in my mental mind beginning June 24th and growing in ‘Power’ on June 25th the exact Day of my SLR. I will spare you writing out the details but if you want to see the exact manifestation of this powerful mental influx go to following link and see what my ‘realization of thoughts’ pertained to:
https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 387#p16387

It is most rare to see with Sidereal Mundane Astrology (SMA) a Championship contest show acute angular winning symbolism and losing symbolism for the location of two teams involved in a Championship.

Note t Venus partile cnj Vertex and tight cnj (1,11) my Natal Pluto. I will discuss the manifestations of this transit later, which occurred yesterday June 28--3 days after my SLR began.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:41 am

Excellent example - and I do understand the feel of this mental tone in a fellow Virgo

(and, at that, one with a Scorpio Moon - you're a natural for Mercury + Mars expressions).

What's really interesting to me, though, is that, with Sun-Saturn across the horizon and Pluto square MC, this wasn't part of you losing (being wrong, losing money, whatever) in your assessment.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:47 am

Jim wrote:

What's really interesting to me, though, is that, with Sun-Saturn across the horizon and Pluto square MC, this wasn't part of you losing (being wrong, losing money, whatever) in your assessment.

Exactly! I am winning recreational money even with these malefic SLR factors. Last Friday the above mentioned planetary factors in your post manifested. My wife has been assisting a former colleague/friend who lost her husband of 40 years. My wife's friend is 85 years old, blind in one eye and in bad health, and is still in a severe grieving process over the passing of her husband. My wife and I use to do a-lot of socializing with this couple until the husband had radical throat surgery several years ago due to throat cancer, which ended the couple's socializing. My wife's friend lives alone and her friend asked my wife to assist her once a week to help her in many areas. Last Friday I was invited to my wife's friend's house and I had a 6 hour conversation about her severe grieving process, along with much discussion about death, old age, poor health--very depressing things in life about death which my wife's friend initiated to me as a sounding board. This was obvious my SLR Sun-Saturn across my SLR horizon manifesting.

But, regarding the theme of this thread, I find that SLR Venus partile cnj SLR Vertex 1,11 cnj my Natal Pluto very interesting helping me with my Sidereal Astrology personal experiences throwing possible proving light on Fagan's above quoted words about the faster moving planets partile/tight aspected to Natal Planets on the beginning DAY of a SLR. It has been years since I have seen this person and she poured her heart out to me, mainly about death and deep Plutonian things--so we can see this t SLR Venus tight cnj my Natal Pluto manifesting big time. When we got home, my wife said she believed my visit helped her friend.

Jim, I am beginning to believe these type transits to natal factors with the faster moving planets in a SLR can better help us to read these type SLR'S. These type transits do not occur often--but when they do we may need to pay more attention to them, particularly with tight angular 'outstanding incident' SLR's.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:09 am

SteveS wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:47 amJim, I am beginning to believe these type transits to natal factors with the faster moving planets in a SLR can better help us to read these type SLR'S. These type transits do not occur often--but when they do we may need to pay more attention to them, particularly with tight angular 'outstanding incident' SLR's.

Steve, I'm confused what's new here.

All this instruction from Fagan is saying is that partile transits at the time of a Lunar Return are valid. Right? Am I missing anything?

I think maybe I didn't emphasize that enough in writing until a few years ago, but it was always "in the mix." I use them routinely in, say, the
"Trump Watch" forecast I write each month, and this has matured the idea that they often show up as "background conditions" in the rest of the story. For example, there have been returns where some mostly positive message dominates the angles (and the events of his life) but partile Saturn square his Neptune and Pluto square his Jupiter still exists away from the angles and, hey, the Mueller investigation is still ongoing and occasionally raises its head.

I enjoy seeing your enthusiasm for these... I'm trying to find what I'm missing.

Also, in assessing them, we have to consider that the transit is going to work anyway - just as a transit - whether it is exact at the time of the SLR. One has to watch these day by day. Today transiting Mercury squares my progressed Moon, so I'm not surprised that I stayed up a couple of hours after Marion to work on my "all USA Capsolars" spreadsheet project - insomnia in the face of some fascinating intellectual work being a lifetime pattern of Mercury to Moon transits for me.

So, since the transit is going to "work" anyway, what makes it different when it is partile in the SLR? I think the only differences are that (1) the aspect then becomes part of the overall "story" that all the factors of the SLR are weaving together, and (2) the transit lasts for the duration of the SLR instead of coming and going.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:39 am

Jim asked:

Steve, I'm confused what's new here.

Jim, nothing is really new here from your far superior knowledge with Sidereal Astrology compared to the rest of us learning Sidereal Astrologers. You clearly teach in your book ISR partile transits to natal in a SSR’s are very important and are effective at times the whole solar year, but never have I read where you emphasized the faster moving planet transits in a SLR like Fagan emphasizes these faster moving transits. I just never have focused much on the faster moving transits on the day of a SLR; therefore, I have little personal experience with them with finely tuning them for important interpretation purposes. It has only been in the last few months I have become more conscious of them when they rarely occur, and find it most interesting Fagan emphases these type transits-- ‘which has proved so astonishingly successful’ by Fagan's account. I understand you were aware of their importance with your personal work—but not me. Also, I find it most interesting Fagan says:

In regard to the more rapidly moving planets, their transits only become significant if they should closely configure the birth planets on the date of a lunar return.

I have known most of my astrological life the faster moving transits to the natal manifest very little in daily life unless we can get then angular on a return chart or Q chart. But now I am beginning to see these type transits in a SLR in a different light depending on certain things, which I realize you have always known but have written very little about isolating their importance on your forum. I now understand when I see a SLR with nothing close to the angles or moon not aspected with tight/partile aspects, but with the same SLR see a partile/tight transiting fast moving aspect to a natal—the potential for a good predicted method with some possible ‘outstanding’ ability on a personal level. Yes, indeed I am enthused, because I feel like I have learned something ‘new’ with Fagan’s words in his above AA article-- which I have never read before -- learning new important stuff for my personal style of predicted astrology. Did not mean to confuse you and hope this may help you to understand my personal enthusiasm with these type transits. I hope to see more examples of these type transits in a SLR, and hope other members will start posting examples when they occur in their SLR’s. It just helps me see more of the bigger picture for a SLR when I see these type transits set-up. Not all of us are as proficient with Sidereal Astrology knowledge as you are with your learning background. We all have to learn resonating with our own Sidereal astrological experiences. We are lucky to have you teaching us Sidereal Astrology, but not all of us understand some of the finer points of Sidereal Astrology like you understand. Just keep on teaching Jim!

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:12 pm

SteveS wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:39 am Jim asked:
Steve, I'm confused what's new here.
...but never have I read where you emphasized the faster moving planet transits in a SLR like Fagan emphasizes these faster moving transits.

I make no distinction in faster or slower - as mentioned before, Trump's Pluto to Jupiter and Saturn to Neptune transit, partile in several consecutive lunars and demi-lunars, are part of the SLR story.

I just never have focused much on the faster moving transits on the day of a SLR

I think that's the difference we're encountering here. I live and die (so to speak) on daily transits. if we didn't have solar and lunar returns, I could do thoroughly satisfying predictive work most of the time with nothing but these transits. I'm not surprised that they "work" if partile in the SLR - unlike Fagan, I think they "work" regardless of whether they have anything to do with the SLR. What's intriguing to me, though, is that a one-day transit can suddenly become a two-week or one-month transit if it's locked in by occurring in a lunar return.

Also, I find it most interesting Fagan says:
In regard to the more rapidly moving planets, their transits only become significant if they should closely configure the birth planets on the date of a lunar return.

Yes, that's where I disagree with him entirely. They're generally significant regardless of whether the transit occurs in the SLR.

I have known most of my astrological life the faster moving transits to the natal manifest very little in daily life unless we can get then angular on a return chart or Q chart.

I disagree with this. I find them describing how I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, and particular themes of the day on most days, unrelated to return charts or quotidians.

Yes, indeed I am enthused

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:12 pm

Jim wrote:

I find them describing how I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, and particular themes of the day on most days, unrelated to return charts or quotidians.

Yes I agree on a daily life time normal daily basis. I certainly don't disagree faster moving partile transits to natal don't produce psychological changes with normal day to day experiences, but I am mainly interested in these faster moving partile transits in SLR's manifesting something more infrequent/rare/outstanding which conforms to my style of astrology, probably because when I was young, I moved around the country a-lot with certain objectives expecting more of a heighten experience with Sidereal Astrology than normal everyday living at residence. This is why this thread with Fagan's AA article words appeals to me. I think it allows me to scan SLR's better to suit my style of living. Also, when electing to relocate a SLR, I will certainly pay more/great attention to these faster moving partile transiting planets to natal on SLR's beginning days Fagan is discussing. In other words, I want to be able to choose what I believe will be a more potent remember manifestations, and I think Fagan found a SLR key for me with his own SLR discovery pertaining to this thread. This excites this old man

with much enthusiasm because I have now realized this discovery for myself. It's a big part of that of Ebertin's 'realization of powerful thoughts' with t. Mercury partile my natal Mars with my current SLR. I love to discover new things for myself with Sidereal Astrology.

My main problem today is my failing memory with old age.

If it keeps failing at its present rate, my biggest fear it it will one stop my activity on the forum by confusing other members and embarrassing myself---more.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:18 pm

SteveS wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:12 pm Yes I agree on a daily life time normal daily basis.

That's what's most important to me. It's what kept me connected to astrology all the decades I wasn't otherwise paying much attention. There are thousands of ore "ordinary days" than extraordinary days, and I get to watch the operation of the universe thousands of times more often - plus, have general guidance on what I'm going to encounter when I head out the door.

...I am mainly interested in these faster moving partile transits in SLR's manifesting something more infrequent/rare/outstanding

Yes. That's of secondary interest to me. And BTW I don't know that these transits in the SLR are going to do that. They're just going to add another detail. (And most lunar returns, even with excruciatingly close contacts, don't produce "big events" - but they always reflect how your psyche is remolded during their term.) Internal events or gigantically more important to me than whatever happens in the physical world most of the time.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:45 pm

Jim wrote:

That's what's most important to me. It's what kept me connected to astrology all the decades I wasn't otherwise paying much attention. There are thousands of ore "ordinary days" than extraordinary days, and I get to watch the operation of the universe thousands of times more often - plus, have general guidance on what I'm going to encounter when I head out the door.

I understand Jim and I think you learn more important symbolism by monitoring day to day transits, which I did until I ran head-on into the brilliant field of Sidereal Astrology, then became mainly an obsessive Return Chart astrologer, which I have you to blame when I read/studied my first Sidereal Book, ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’ (your great book) which blew my mind after research. I accept there are going to be good days and bad days with daily transits to natal. I still watch closely transits to natal when I am planning important or ‘out of ordinary’ activity, but when retired I just tell my wife when I get ill or whatever—must be a ------- transit to my natal. Every astrologer must go with what they think is important relative to their immediate environment.
Jim wrote:

And BTW I don't know that these transits in the SLR are going to do that.

I understand Jim, I wish I had all of Janma-Rasi experience with this SLR method. I trust you and Fagan’s judgement or conclusions when it comes to Sidereal Astrology. Does not necessarily mean Fagan was right all the time but damn sure ‘knew’ more than I do pertaining to Sidereal Astrology. When I see these type Janma-Rasi transit methods working big time in my life, I have to accept as possibly very important. I still have a-lot of questions about possible certain refinements for these type SLR transits. For example: by what I have seen so far, when we see an ‘outstanding incident’ SLR with one of these type Janma-Rasi transits, IMO, we may have to give more weight. I don’t know for sure, I need to see dozens of different examples with all kinds of these Rasi type transits. I have seen them in SSR’s with major outer planet transits and damn well know they are important, but like I have said: I have never put Rasi type planets under my microscope, only when they are angular. But it appears to me for now—may change my mind—these Rasi type transits may be more important than I have realized no matter where they fall on a return wheel. I really need to see/read/study/ all of Fagan’s AA article for more possible learning. I hope I live long enough to see Ken Bower produce all of Fagan’s AA articles, for studying Sidereal Astrology is a true passion for me.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:31 am

Example 2
Jim, to help us with SLR learning in the context of our discussions with this thread, would you elaborate on how you would differentiate the symbolic meaning of a transiting Venus partile cnj Natal Pluto NOT on the DAY for my friend’s SLR—verses a transiting Venus partile cnj Natal Pluto on the DAY of my close friend’s SLR in the following link. As we can see his SLR is an ‘outstanding incident’ Sun-Saturn SLR based on your ‘outstanding incident’ guidelines in your book ISR. The outstanding Sun-Saturn incident has already occurred.

https://imgur.com/a/9KrFKWT

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:43 am

SteveS wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:31 am Jim, to help us with SLR learning in the context of our discussions with this thread, would you elaborate on how you would differentiate the symbolic meaning of a transiting Venus partile cnj Natal Pluto NOT on the DAY for my friend’s SLR—verses a transiting Venus partile cnj Natal Pluto on the DAY of my close friend’s SLR in the following link. As we can see his SLR is an ‘outstanding incident’ Sun-Saturn SLR based on your ‘outstanding incident’ guidelines in your book ISR. The outstanding Sun-Saturn incident has already occurred.

I wouldn't really interpret them differently except for two factors: (1) The transit in the SLR lasts for the period of the SLR rather than a day. (2) The transit in the SLR has to fit into the SLR as part of the story the return is telling.

With Venus transit natal Pluto, we expect a distinctive "all or nothing" Pluto. It usually will have a characteristic of two people confronting each other with fewer of the social games and filters (more of an I-Thou honesty). Probably most often for most people, it shows as a measure of distance of withdrawing, but can flip the exact opposite and be a dropping of barriers for an unusually intimate connection. It's usually a day when a main feature of the day is that an important relationship holds one's attention, pro or con.

Since, at a glance, the Sun-Saturn opposition along the meridian is the main feature of the SLR, the "separation" side of Venus-Pluto is more likely to show than the "connection" side because the chart is inherently separative. (It looks like his Neptune is rising; I'll check how close that is shortly.) In other words, the main "story" of the SLR is in that Sun-Saturn opposition on the angles, and the middleground Venus-Pluto transit is adding some details.

This needn't be a major separation. It could be hurling oneself into work nonstop, with the effect of being distant from one's partner for a while. It also could be the flip side, e.g., there is a pending serious loss, and this leads one to have an intimate, sharing conversation with someone close (for any of several reasons).

The Venus is well aspected: It is closely square Jupiter.

The main factors in the SLR itself are:
Sun on MC 2°17', Saturn on IC 1°30', Sun-Saturn op. 0°47' in mundo
Neptune is starting to square Moon (closer in mundo) but background, so probably not a direct factor.
Natal Neptune is 6°45' below Asc
t Venus conj. r Pluto 0°29'

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:28 am

Jim wrote:

I wouldn't really interpret them differently except for two factors: (1) The transit in the SLR lasts for the period of the SLR rather than a day. (2) The transit in the SLR has to fit into the SLR as part of the story the return is telling.

I agree Jim. But I think Fagan/Janma-Rasi are trying to tell us since t Venus is partile cnj Pluto on the Day of the SLR, then this Venus-Pluto will become more important and highly descriptive for the main ‘theme’ of this SLR—the tight angular Sun-Saturn 180.
Jim wrote:

It's usually a day when a main feature of the day is that an important relationship holds one's attention, pro or con.

Indeed it did, will tell outstanding incident at the end of post.
Jim wrote:

Since, at a glance, the Sun-Saturn opposition along the meridian is the main feature of the SLR, the "separation" side of Venus-Pluto is more likely to show than the "connection" side because the chart is inherently separative.

A big Bingo Jim!

Jim wrote:

It also could be the flip side, e.g., there is a pending serious loss, and this leads one to have an intimate, sharing conversation with someone close (for any of several reasons).

Another Bingo!

This friend was visiting me who asked you some questions about your health and keto diet. Ever since I got into Sidereal Astrology, my friend always agreed to let me know of any out of ordinary incidents which happened in his life, helping me to learn Return Charts, and years later he asked me to always give him a heads-up if I saw anything with my astrology which may indicate important incidents for his life. While he was visiting me I told him he had a Sun-Saturn ‘outstanding incident’ SLR forming in a few days, he understands the separative/depressing symbolism at times associated with Saturn. He asked me my thoughts about this SLR. Since my friend is very active with ownership of a business which is usually his top priorities in his present immediate environment, I told him a separative out of ordinary incident which would hurt him pertaining to his business. Since my friend knows I am usually wrong with the specifics

—he said.—I hope its not my manager. His SLR began on June 26 and on this day—he called me and said he had to put his only 16 old Cat to sleep for a serious health problem. Earlier this year, he lost his brother to a sudden death. Look at his current SSR and we see a partile Sun-Venus-Pluto conjunction. When he called me about this very depressing incident, he told me losing his brother hurt (they were close) but he did not cry, but when he had to put his cat down—he cried for hours. I told him the reason for this difference-- because a close cat pet relationship pours out so much unconditional love to their owners on a daily basis.

Thanks Jim for your read on this SLR with the Rasi Venus transit to natal Pluto. It helps us all to peer into anything Fagan has written. I have some more statements & questions with this thread which I will ask you later.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:04 am

SteveS wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:28 am I agree Jim. But I think Fagan/Janma-Rasi are trying to tell us since t Venus is partile cnj Pluto on the Day of the SLR, then this Venus-Pluto will become more important and highly descriptive for the main ‘theme’ of this SLR—the tight angular Sun-Saturn 180.

I think you're treating Fagan's mention of Janma-Rasi as some new thing and a really big deal. I think Fagan's mention of the Indian technique was much more in passing, that he was saying: "Partile transits in the SLR are operative and, in fact, there's an Indian method that ends up (probably by accident) using the same principle by looking at exact transits on that day." That is, I don't think he's doing anything more than mentioning that partile transits in a lunar return should be "counted".

Similarly, Fagan's original idea of the Q1 (the Bija-corrected secondary progressions) arose out of his familiarity with the so-called Diurnal Chart, a chart calculated once a day for the same time you were born. At that exact moment, the Q1 matches it exactly. For a while, he referred to this SNQ1 as the "real Diurnal Chart" (or words to that effect) but he wasn't selling the then-familiar Diurnal chart per se, he was pushing the Bija-corrected quotidian.

Glad we're winning at Bingo

Sorry it was for such a sad reason

mikestar13 · Post by **mikestar13** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:30 am

I would go Jim one better, the "psychological changes" are ultimately the only things that matter, the only things that actually show in a chart. External events tend to generate bigger psychological changes than purely internal ones, particularly big external events. But this is not always true, compare falling in love vs. an external event like breaking a leg. Usually the former will register more strongly, as for most of us it feels more important. Falling in love may involve no physical event at all.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:58 am

Jim wrote:

I think you're treating Fagan's mention of Janma-Rasi as some new thing and a really big deal.

You are more likely right. What I would like to see/know if these type transits to a natal planet on the day of a SLR would produce 'outstanding incidents' if the SLR set-up with noting close to the angles of a SLR.

Question: with these type Rasi transits factor in how the natal planet being transited is set-up with other natal aspects? Kinda like with your teachings in ISR when Natal planets fall close/on Return angles it is important to weigh how the natal planet is aspected with other planets in Natal?

Question: You do you consider these type Rasi transits on the Day of a SLR to be more potent in expressing their symbolism other than the same transit to the natal planet not on the day of the SLR?

Bingo's are good.

Thanks Mike for your input.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:07 am

Steve, here are Trump's partile transits (conjunctions, oppositions, squares) for six months of lunars and demi-lunars. I thought you might want to watch these.

6/26 SLR: t Sa - r Ne 57', t Me - r Ve 12'
7/11 Demi-SLR: t Ve - r Asc 17', t Su - r Ju 26'
7/24 SLR: none
8/7 Demi-SLR: t Pl - r Ju 57'
8/20 SLR: t Pl - r Ju 42', t Me - r Pl 35', t Su - r Ma 21'
9/3 Demi-SLR: t Pl - r Ju 28', t Ve - r Ve 52', t Me - r MC 52'
9/16 SLR: t Pl - r Ju 21', t Su - r Su 09'
10/1 Demi-SLR: t Pl - r Ju 18', t Ve - r Pl 37'
10/14 SLR: t Pl - r Ju 20', t Ju - r MC 44', t Ma - r Pl 41'
10/28 Demi-SLR: t Pl - r Ju 29', t Ju - r Ma 12'
11/10 SLR: t Pl - r Ju 42', t Ju - r Asc 32', t Ve - r Ve 48'
11/24 Demi-SLR: t Sa - r Ne 18', t Ve - r Ve 11'

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:13 am

SteveS wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:58 am What I would like to see/know if these type transits to a natal planet on the day of a SLR would produce 'outstanding incidents' if the SLR set-up with noting close to the angles of a SLR.

I think you will find they do not, though, in the absence of angular planets, they take over as "the only thing happening in the chart."

Question: with these type Rasi transits factor in how the natal planet being transited is set-up with other natal aspects? Kinda like with your teachings in ISR when Natal planets fall close/on Return angles it is important to weigh how the natal planet is aspected with other planets in Natal?

Well, very broadly, the natal condition of a planet is always important in the sense that it's the version of that planet you've been living with your whole life.

BTW, rasi simply means "natal."

Question: You do you consider these type Rasi transits on the Day of a SLR to be more potent in expressing their symbolism other than the same transit to the natal planet not on the day of the SLR?

"Potent" is a misleading word. Now, Fagan said that the transits weren't important at all unless they were partile (r nearly so) in the SLR, and with this I specifically disagree. In most ways, I'd say that the ones partile in the SLR are usually less important because they are supplemental information on the basic message of the SLR - secondary to it, etc. - whereas the transit outside the context of the SLR has more room to operate independently.

I'm quite clear that transits to natal planets in the SLR that are foreground - even when quite wide, out to 5° and especially if within 3° - are much stronger than non-foreground partile aspects.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:42 pm

Thanks Jim. BTW, below is mundo natal chart of my close friend. That mundo Venus oppose his tight mundo Saturn-Pluto cnj has always symbolized tough harsh situations with love all kinds of love relationships in his life. And that t. Venus partile his natal Pluto I got him again. Just a mundo aspect observation.
https://imgur.com/a/TAYzH8S

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:28 am

Since a SLR or SSR planet partile 0,90,180 a Natal Planet are not that common, my mind has not been that familiar with them in my life with Sidereal Astrology. But because of recent events in my life and a friend’s life with SLR’s, I am now fully convinced of the truth Fagan’s words:

Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits.

Also, the realization of a thought has entered my mind. This known use of these type transits on the day of a SLR or SSR in Western Sidereal Astrology, appears to have originated in India with known astrological history.

Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:49 am

SteveS wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:28 am Since a SLR or SSR planet partile 0,90,180 a Natal Planet are not that common, my mind has not been that familiar with them in my life with Sidereal Astrology. But because of recent events in my life and a friend’s life with SLR’s, I am now fully convinced of the truth Fagan’s words:
Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits.
Also, the realization of a thought has entered my mind. This known use of these type transits on the day of a SLR or SSR in Western Sidereal Astrology, appears to have originated in India with known astrological history.

Steve, Janma-Rasi or Janma Rashi is simply SIGN the Moon was in at birth. It's an attempt at an SRL for people who don't have an accurate ephemeris. It makes predictions based on the Moon entering the sign it was in when the native was born. So you'd cast a chart for the month beginning when the Moon enters Scorpio and try to predict for the month from that.

We know where India got it's astrology. The same place we got our Sidereal Astrology, although it passed through several other hands before it got there. I've gone over this here before. We don't use adaptions of the Sanskrit and Persian words for our techniques, so it doesn't sound as exotic. But there's no fantastic new method we don't already know about.

Fagan already told us about SLRs. SLRs prove astonishingly successful more often than Janma-Rashi charts, which is why Fagan didn't throw out SLRs in favor of these charts. Fagan was primarily a historian. He was simply saying "hey there's a bastardized version of SLRs preserved in traditional Indian astrology that occasionally gives correct results because it's based on the SLR." If it had worked better than SLRs he would have said so, and given directions for it.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Thanks JSAD for your input. Do you agree with Fagan’s statement pertaining to his AA article about ‘Transits and the Lunar Return’ where he states?

Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:41 pm

It's necessarily so. Not because they necessarily knew anything about lunar returns, but because if you look at non-lunar transits that are exact on the same day as the lunar return (which is what he seems to be saying is the basis of the method), then you are necessarily looking at transits that are partile or nearly so (as he put it) in the lunar return itself.

Nothing but Mercury moves more than a few minutes faster than a degree, and Mercury rarely hits 2°, so there is little-to-no functional difference between saying, "transits that are exact on the date the Moon comes back to its natal sign" and "transits that are exact or nearly so in your lunar return."

If you're asking whether the inventors of the Indian system knew they were basing this on what we call a Lunar Return chart, (1) I don't know and (2) most likely not, since there is no record of a lunar return technique existing in Hindu astrology (and it is stylistically unlike them).

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:23 pm

Jim wrote:

If you're asking whether the inventors of the Indian system knew they were basing this on what we call a Lunar Return chart, (1) I don't know and (2) most likely not, since there is no record of a lunar return technique existing in Hindu astrology (and it is stylistically unlike them).

Jim, this is exactly what has aroused my inquisitive mind. Fagan appears to be making direct statements about transits in the SLR, and I am some what puzzled he is attributing a partile transit to the natal on the day of a lunar return, only to the faster moving planets, with an Indian system which Fagan says was a very accurate predictive system in India. I know the Indian astrologers base a-lot of their predictions with Moon techniques and I like you never new India used a Lunar Return in their astrological forecasting. Maybe we need Fagan's to look further into Fagan's entire article in 'Transits and the Lunar Return' to sort this out. Until then, I remain puzzled why Fagan is saying this is an Indian system with Lunar Returns. I know one thing for sure: I have seen strong evidence a partile transit to the natal with a faster moving planet on the day of a SLR manifest strong symbolic impulses for the duration of a SLR.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:26 pm

I don't remember if I mentioned this previously in this current discussion: This 1949 article from Fagan in The Astrological Bulletina makes the same point:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=178
About half-way through, he wrote:

Jim Eshelman wrote: Tue May 09, 2017 12:59 am The only effective transits are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.

I don't think that's true. But the point under discussion isn't what I think, but what Fagan thought and, from at least 1949, this is what he was teaching.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:41 pm

Fagan wrote:

The only effective transits are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.

Yes, this statement by Fagan also puzzled the hell out of me. I knew when I read this statement by Fagan it was not entirely true, so we are left with trying to figure out what exactly Fagan is trying to convey with this statement. Now, if Fagan meant to say very important transits (partile) to the natal are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns--yes I am in full agreement which you stated in ISR in certain wording.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:42 pm

SteveS wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:23 pm Fagan appears to be making direct statements about transits in the SLR, and I am some what puzzled he is attributing a partile transit to the natal on the day of a lunar return, only to the faster moving planets, with an Indian system which Fagan says was a very accurate predictive system in India.

He didn't limit it to faster planets only. Read the quote you first published. He said, "it is always advisable to note all the transits to the birth planets, especially to the natal moon, that are exact or nearly so, on the date of a lunar return for they are certain to be effective." Any exact transits.

I think it is incorrect to say that he attributed this to the Indian system. I think he's making a casual side-observation that could be removed from the article without changing his meaning. Fagan did this a lot in his writings. I read him as saying, "The transits that are important are the ones that are exact in the monthly lunar return. Oh, and by the way, that's probably why the Indian newspaper horoscopes are more accurate than ours, because they're based on transits that occur on the same day as the SLR." (In case I forgot to mention it before, Janma-Rasi is the Indian version of the newspaper horoscope column, not a professionals' tool.)

Maybe we need Fagan's to look further into Fagan's entire article in 'Transits and the Lunar Return' to sort this out.

Are you sure it isn't just the same thing as in the 1949 article I've had on the site for a while, that I linked in the last post?

Until then, I remain puzzled why Fagan is saying this is an Indian system with Lunar Returns.

He didn't. You're misreading it. He didn't say that at all. He never mentioned anything at all about an Indian lunar return method. After talking about transits to the natal chart that occur in the SLR, he said, "Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits." It is based on such transits, i.e., transits on day Moon returns every month, not on a return chart. (They didn't have the means to calculate lunar returns during most of their history.)

Janma-rasi, in practice, just means "(natal) Moon-sign."

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:46 pm

SteveS wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:41 pm Fagan wrote:
The only effective transits are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.
Yes, this statement by Fagan also puzzled the hell out of me. I knew when I read this statement by Fagan it was not entirely true, so we are left with trying to figure out what exactly Fagan is trying to convey with this statement. Now, if Fagan meant to say very important transits (partile) to the natal are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns--yes I am in full agreement which you stated in ISR in certain wording.

So let's sort this out...

Fagan said, "transits... on the dates of the Lunar Returns." By necessity (except for a rare exception with Mercury) these are always going to be partile. You cannot have any transit occur on the date of the lunar return that is not partile in the lunar return itself. (Exceptions are Moon transits - which don't count in the SLR, because it's the same as the natal Moon - and those of Mercury for a few hours when at its fastest speed.)

So... you're arguing against yourself. Fagan is saying partile transits on the SLR date, and you're saying this is puzzling unless he means partile transits. That's exactly what he means

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:52 pm

Jim wrote:

It is based on such transits, i.e., transits on day Moon returns every month, not on a return chart.

Ah, ok, so the Indian system was probably based on exact transit of moon to natal moon. Is Fagan saying this is when the Indian system paid close attention to partile transits to the natal?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:10 pm

No. They didn't have the math to calculate that. It was beyond them. Just the day.

I did think of another way to say this...

I think you are thinking the following: "We know all about the Sidereal Lunar Return, but, wow, maybe there is an even deeper system of which the SLR is only the tip of the iceberg."

Whereas the reality is: "Indian astrologers have a form of newspaper astrology with which they are pretty effective (as newspaper astrology goes), but it really rests on this much deeper reality called the Sidereal Lunar Return."

Did I mention that Janma-Rasi is just newspaper astrology? <vbg>

Here's an example of Janma Rasi:
http://www.planetarypositions.com/forec ... pril-2018/

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:15 pm

Steve, here is how it is used. From the site I just posted, here is the Janma Rasi monthly forecast for April 2018 for someone (such as yourself) with Moon in Scorpio. (Anything in square brackets [] is my comment.)

Horoscope for April 2018 for Moon sign Scorpio – Vrishchika Jamna Rashi
Saturn’s transit through 2nd from your janma rashi [for a Scorpio Moon, Saturn in Sagittarius is in the 2nd House] is the last part of sadhe sati going on for you. Jupiter’s transit is adverse too, through 12th house [Jupiter is in Libra, which is in the "evil" 12th house. Etc. with the rest.]. Rashi lord Mars is going through a 2nd house manglik transit. Mercury is going through adverse 5th and then 6th house transit. Venus is going through an unfavourable 6th and then 7th house transit. Sun will move through an unfavourable 3rd and then a favourable 6th house in transit, but will encounter Jupiter’s vedha. Rahu/Ketu are going through the 9th and the 3rd houses respectively, but Jupiter’s vedha on Ketu will dilute the good effects for long term. This will be an adverse month as all transits are either unfavourable or are blocked by vedhas.

Home, Family and Domestic Environment: It is a good time to reset and reflect during the month. Do not make any sudden changes to your lifestyle. Status quo needs to be maintained. If you try to be your normal self of a shy, yet proud individual, it may not work for you. Go with the flow and follow your family members’ advice. Do yell and do not get angry at them.

Travel: There are no major indications about travel.

Health: Eat well, which means you need to keep away from spicy, fatty food.

Finance, Business & Job: A lot of rude talk will create problems at the place of work. During the 2nd half too, when the transits are little favourable, you need to keep your head down and not be in a pontificating mode. Displeasure of superiors at work, and authorities, if you are in business, is indicated. If you are in a compromising mode, lawsuits can be settled. Keep a very close watch on expenditure. Do not break existing bank deposits to fund your expenses.

Chandrashtama days: 20-Apr, 21-Apr
Days of caution on financial matters: 2-Apr, 3-Apr, 6-Apr, 7-Apr, 8-Apr, 29-Apr, 30-Apr

It's the same kind of formula as a Western Sun-sign newspaper guide. For April 2018, such a forecast might have said:

With Mars, Saturn, and Pluto in your solar 4th house, your home requires some demanding (and possibly expensive) repairs - but it's spring, so roll up your shirt sleeves and get at it. Just be careful, especially regarding falls!

Jupiter remains in your 2nd house, so you'll find a way to cover the extra expenses. Plan to spend time with those closest to you - your mate and other intimates - during the first half of the month while Sun and Mercury are in your 7th house after the 18th, life has a surprise for you - especially, something rolls out into the light that you thought you never had to worry about again, but now it's in the open for all to see: Maybe it will turn your life around! Travel and long-distance outreach likely thrive after Venus enters your 9th on the 22nd.

(LOL, I'm way out of practice. I used to support myself writing this sort of thing.)

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:23 pm

Thanks Jim for Janma Rasi info, makes me appreciate Western Sidereal Astrology more

. So, with Fagan’s research he is saying “probably” Janma-Rasi system had a reliable predictive system with the ‘faster moving planets’ when partile aspected to natal planets on the DAY when the transiting Moon cnj Natal Moon?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:35 pm

SteveS wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:23 pm So, with Fagan’s research he is saying “probably” Janma-Rasi system had a reliable predictive system with the ‘faster moving planets’ when partile aspected to natal planets on the DAY when the transiting Moon cnj Natal Moon?

Hesaid nothing about faster moving planets. It doesn't matter what the planets are. Fagan mentioned any transits in the SLR. Janma-Rasi uses all the planets (well, Indian astrology only goes out to Saturn).

I don't think he mean "probably": or "maybe." He think he meant it was indeed "astonishingly successful." But (I just realized) notice that he doesn't say it was accurate, just "successful." I personally think he meant "accurate," certainly nore so than Western newspaper astrology of the time. But maybe he literally meant that, as a business product - something to sell - it astonished him how successful it is!

So, to come back to your question, I think the only thing of value he is saying is that partile transits to the natal chart, if in the SLR, are important. (And stop trying to make this just about faster planets - he never said that.)

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:47 pm

Steve, in the next six months of lunars and demi-lunars, you have quite a few partile transits. (If angular, I've marked it red.)

6/25 SLR: t Mercury op. r Mars 08'
7/10 Demi-SLR: t Mercury conj. r Pluto 46'
7/23 SLR: (none)
8/6 Demi-SLR: t Saturn sq. r Venus 50', t Jupiter sq. r Pluto 48', t Mercury conj. r Saturn 47', t Sun conj. r Pluto 57' (wow!)
8/19 SLR: t Saturn sq. r Venus 21', t Jupiter sq. r Pluto 24'
9/2 Demi-SLR: t Saturn sq. r Venus 07', t Venus sq. r Mars 23', t Mercury sq. r Jupiter 08' t Sun sq. r Moon 11'
9/15 SLR: t Saturn sq. r Venus 10', t Jupiter sq. r Saturn 22'
9/30 Demi-SLR: t Saturn sq. r Venus 34', t Mercury conj. r Mercury 52' [t Jupiter conj. r Asc 58']
10/13 SLR: t Jupiter conj. r Jupiter 16'
10/27 Demi-SLR: t Mars op. r Saturn 21', t Mercury conj. r Jupiter 39'
11/9 SLR: t Mercury conj. r Moon 21'
11/23 Demi-SLR: t Mercury conj. r Moon 49'

Plenty to watch!

Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:39 pm

SteveS wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:34 pm Thanks JSAD for your input. Do you agree with Fagan’s statement pertaining to his AA article about ‘Transits and the Lunar Return’ where he states?
Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits.

I think Fagan was clear this was a speculation on his part, and I agree that's a reasonable speculation, but there's no way to prove that's where the Janma Rashi method came from. Not that it matters. As Jim said, it's sort of equivalent to newspaper sun sign columns. It's meant to apply to a twelfth of the entire population of the world. It's going to be "astonishingly successful" for somebody somewhere, and for anybody who really really wants to believe.

Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:50 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote: Tue May 09, 2017 12:59 am
Fagan wrote: The only effective transits are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.

I think Fagan was saying the only effective transits to the planetary positions in the lunar return are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns. He's explaining how to read a Lunar return, not saying that transits that aren't made on the day of the return aren't effective.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:30 am

First, thanks Jim for your list of my partile transits with my next few months of Lunars.
Jim wrote:

He (Fagan) said nothing about the faster moving planets.

Jim, Fagan said in his lead quote of this thread:

In regard to the more rapidly moving planets…

Jim wrote:

Oh, and by the way, that's probably why the Indian newspaper horoscopes are more accurate than ours, because they're based on transits that occur on the same day as the SLR."

You do you mean transits to the natal, yes? If yes, Fagan appear to be recognizing these type transits (partile) as “astonishingly successful.”
Look guys, I am not arguing with myself or what ya’ll are saying with your opinions. I am only trying to understand if Fagan based part of his methodology for reading SLR’s with SLR transits (partile) to Natal planets based on Fagan’s research into the Janma-Rasi system, which Jim states the Janma-Rasi system is “based on transits that occur on the same day as the SLR.” Fagan is telling us in the lead quote in this thread that the Janma-Rasi system of predictions “has proved so astonishingly successful.” It appears to me- but I don’t have the timelines for all of Fagan’s AA articles, when Fagan discovered this ‘astonishing successful predictive method form the Janma-Rasi system, Fagan incorporated this Indian predictive system into his Western system of Sidereal Astrology with SLR’s---Yes, No or Maybe?
Pertaining to Fagan’s words:

The only effective transits are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.

JSAD wrote:

I think Fagan was saying the only effective transits to the planetary positions in the lunar return are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.

JSAD, do you mean by ‘transits to planetary positions in the lunar return’ are the transits to the natal planets or the transiting aspects in the SLR?

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:06 am

( dictated, not typed.)

Duh, I read right past the word "rapidly" 2 dozen times and missed it. I was concentrating on the other sentences near the end. Thanks.

However, I don't think he was advising only checking fast Planet Transits. I think he was saying that he did not regard fast Planet transits as important unless they were exact in the lunar return.

By the way, this is what makes phagans reference to the Indian system so confusing. It doesn't actually reference any nail planets except the Moon, and references the moon only by sign. It does me lime or on a specimen transiting planets then transits to the natal. And those aspects are measured in the Indian fashion of whole sign aspects.

that aside, no I do not think that he got any of his inspiration for how to interpret lunar returns from the system. He was just siting it as an interesting coincidence. He figured out how to relearn Returns on

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:17 am

SteveS wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:30 am ...when Fagan discovered this ‘astonishing successful predictive method form the Janma-Rasi system, Fagan incorporated this Indian predictive system into his Western system of Sidereal Astrology with SLR’s---Yes, No or Maybe?

No. Fagan didn't incorporate the Janma Rashi system into the way he read SLRs.

This comment of his came out of conversations he carried on with a few Indian astrologers who pointed out similarities between Sidereal astrology and their systems, which were originally brought to India when the Persian empire conquered parts of Indian and then were passed down imperfectly through the ages.

Pertaining to Fagan’s words:
The only effective transits are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.
JSAD wrote:
I think Fagan was saying the only effective transits to the planetary positions in the lunar return are those made on the dates of the Lunar returns.
JSAD, do you mean by ‘transits to planetary positions in the lunar return’ are the transits to the natal planets or the transiting aspects in the SLR?

Natals. Although I wouldn't read transits to transiting aspects. Too weird (maybe too Virgo drilling down too far) for me.

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:30 am

Just an observation on this whole thread...

Fagan was not a Virgo. Trying to find meaning in every turn of phrase and passing word choice in his writing isn't useful. He wasn't a mystic hiding meanings for future adepts to find. Treating his writings that way is drilling past the clean water into the mud at the bottom of the well.

Fagan did love turning a phrase with a flourish. I've mentioned the flowery, fancy, obscure language so many astrologers turn to, especially as they get older. Combine the two, and there's a lot of mud in the bottom of that well you're drilling.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:01 am

FWIW Fagan had a Virgo Moon.he gamed words Far more than me.

But I agree the Taurian simplicity is more his style.

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:22 am

Virgo Moon enabling him to do the math. But not angular. Taurus Sun angular. His writing style was informed by the times. Remember he was a contemporary of and knew Yeats. But everybody of that time wrote in that convoluted flowery style.
Thank goodness for Bradley who took a hot knife to the language used.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:57 pm

OK guys, thanks for the input. I am still somewhat confused by Fagan's quoted statement but I am going to drop trying to completely understand his statement. For now, I will only post examples for transits of the faster moving planets in a SLR to the Natal. I found another excellent example with a friend which I will post later.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:29 am

The following link (1) is the April 16, 2018 SLR for a close friend (Curtis) and a business colleague. Looks great with Venus-Jupiter across the SLR’s horizon. But my friend experience by his account the worst business disappointment in his business life in April 2018.
1: https://imgur.com/a/5wjY6Qv
How does Sidereal Astrology explain this business disappointment. Jim in his return teachings tells us we always need to bi-wheel a return chart with the natal to see if any natal planets appear close or on the SLR angles. Link # 2 is a bi-wheel SLR inner wheel and Natal outer wheel. Note the fast moving angular planet Venus in the inner wheel is partile 180 Natal Saturn in the outer wheel.
2: https://imgur.com/a/jOvwwbq
Here is what happened. Early last November, Curtis entered into a non-legal contractual agreement with a Company to become the managing director for a Concept Theater to be built as an anchor with a small shopping center on the Company’s property. I was called to Concord, North Carolina to consult with the Architect to help design the Theater. Later a rendering of the architect plans was drawn-up to be publicized in local newspaper at a later date. Curtis then signed the contractual agreements before the Company’s lawyer. A Company official worked with Curtis (Curtis supplied the Business Plan for the Theater) before bank officials in securing the loan for the development. The Bank officials approved the loan with collateral from the Company’s financial holdings. It was planned to break ground on the Theater in January. The end of February came, and ground was still not broken for the Theater, which is normal in a business deal like this, Plans have to be approved by the City and bids have to be summited to Contractors. March came and went and still nothing happened. Two days after Curtis’s April 16, 2018 began one of the Company’s official contacted Curtis and told him one of the Principle Partners of the Company pulled out of the deal, killing the entire deal.
We can clearly see angular SLR Venus partile 180 Curtis Natal Saturn par-excellent planetary symbolism for severing/separating Curtis for this Business arrangement. Angular SLR Venus & SLR Jupiter in combination with angular Natal Saturn was obviously the main theme for this SLR. Ebertin says for one of his deleinations for this Ve-Ju-Sat combination:

Destroyed hopes.

TheScales_BothWays · Post by **TheScales_BothWays** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:30 am

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:15 pm Steve, here is how it is used. From the site I just posted, here is the Janma Rasi monthly forecast for April 2018 for someone (such as yourself) with Moon in Scorpio. (Anything in square brackets [] is my comment.)

Horoscope for April 2018 for Moon sign Scorpio – Vrishchika Jamna Rashi
Saturn’s transit through 2nd from your janma rashi [for a Scorpio Moon, Saturn in Sagittarius is in the 2nd House] is the last part of sadhe sati going on for you. Jupiter’s transit is adverse too, through 12th house [Jupiter is in Libra, which is in the "evil" 12th house. Etc. with the rest.]. Rashi lord Mars is going through a 2nd house manglik transit. Mercury is going through adverse 5th and then 6th house transit. Venus is going through an unfavourable 6th and then 7th house transit. Sun will move through an unfavourable 3rd and then a favourable 6th house in transit, but will encounter Jupiter’s vedha. Rahu/Ketu are going through the 9th and the 3rd houses respectively, but Jupiter’s vedha on Ketu will dilute the good effects for long term. This will be an adverse month as all transits are either unfavourable or are blocked by vedhas.

Home, Family and Domestic Environment: It is a good time to reset and reflect during the month. Do not make any sudden changes to your lifestyle. Status quo needs to be maintained. If you try to be your normal self of a shy, yet proud individual, it may not work for you. Go with the flow and follow your family members’ advice. Do yell and do not get angry at them.

Travel: There are no major indications about travel.

Health: Eat well, which means you need to keep away from spicy, fatty food.

Finance, Business & Job: A lot of rude talk will create problems at the place of work. During the 2nd half too, when the transits are little favourable, you need to keep your head down and not be in a pontificating mode. Displeasure of superiors at work, and authorities, if you are in business, is indicated. If you are in a compromising mode, lawsuits can be settled. Keep a very close watch on expenditure. Do not break existing bank deposits to fund your expenses.

Chandrashtama days: 20-Apr, 21-Apr
Days of caution on financial matters: 2-Apr, 3-Apr, 6-Apr, 7-Apr, 8-Apr, 29-Apr, 30-Apr

Wow, yup! This is exactly how an Indian astrological monthly forecast looks like, except that I usually read them in Tamil (I only read them out to my mother haha

). Also, I find it weird that there aren't any "remedies" being suggested, LOL.

Jim Eshelman wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:15 pm It's the same kind of formula as a Western Sun-sign newspaper guide. For April 2018, such a forecast might have said:
With Mars, Saturn, and Pluto in your solar 4th house, your home requires some demanding (and possibly expensive) repairs - but it's spring, so roll up your shirt sleeves and get at it. Just be careful, especially regarding falls!

Jupiter remains in your 2nd house, so you'll find a way to cover the extra expenses. Plan to spend time with those closest to you - your mate and other intimates - during the first half of the month while Sun and Mercury are in your 7th house after the 18th, life has a surprise for you - especially, something rolls out into the light that you thought you never had to worry about again, but now it's in the open for all to see: Maybe it will turn your life around! Travel and long-distance outreach likely thrive after Venus enters your 9th on the 22nd.

Yes, I agree with Jim. It's all the usual Indian predictive techniques, but on the basis of the Moon sign (Janma Rasi) being assumed as the first house. Some do it with nakshatras to make them appear as more skilled astrologers. Otherwise, there's not much fundamental difference from Tropical Sun sign astrology, besides house meanings, and the interpretations of planets in the houses.

In fact, the interpretations of transiting planets in the "houses" (i.e. whole-sign houses beginning from one's Rasi/Moon sign) are very complicated in Indian astrology. Saturn and Mars are said to give beneficial results when in the 3rd, 6th and 11th houses, while Jupiter isn't always benefic—transiting Jupiter in the 1st house and 10th house (along with some other houses) are considered malefic. How is Jupiter being in one's Moon sign or in the 10th house malefic? Also Steve, isn't Moon-Jupiter symbolism one of your prime jewels of all benefic planetary symbolisms? Modern Indian astrologers though, have now toned the "malefic results" of Jupiter down to the language of tropicalists for Jupiter returns. Transiting Venus in the 7th house is also very mediocre-to-bad for them. It's a clear showing of the corruption resulting from the mixing of genethliacal and horary astrological methods, paraphrasing Fagan's words. (I was about to quote the whole passage, but it's rather long in this already-lengthy post. Do click on the link! It points to an old post moved from the old forums.)

I have no idea how Fagan sees a relation between transits of SLRs and Indian monthly Rashi forecasts though. But Jim and JSAD have given some probable explanations.

TheScales_BothWays · Post by **TheScales_BothWays** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:02 am

SteveS wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:29 am The following link (1) is the April 16, 2018 SLR for a close friend (Curtis) and a business colleague. Looks great with Venus-Jupiter across the SLR’s horizon. But my friend experience by his account the worst business disappointment in his business life in April 2018.
1: https://imgur.com/a/5wjY6Qv
How does Sidereal Astrology explain this business disappointment. Jim in his return teachings tells us we always need to bi-wheel a return chart with the natal to see if any natal planets appear close or on the SLR angles. Link # 2 is a bi-wheel SLR inner wheel and Natal outer wheel. Note the fast moving angular planet Venus in the inner wheel is partile 180 Natal Saturn in the outer wheel.
2: https://imgur.com/a/jOvwwbq
Here is what happened. Early last November, Curtis entered into a non-legal contractual agreement with a Company to become the managing director for a Concept Theater to be built as an anchor with a small shopping center on the Company’s property. I was called to Concord, North Carolina to consult with the Architect to help design the Theater. Later a rendering of the architect plans was drawn-up to be publicized in local newspaper at a later date. Curtis then signed the contractual agreements before the Company’s lawyer. A Company official worked with Curtis (Curtis supplied the Business Plan for the Theater) before bank officials in securing the loan for the development. The Bank officials approved the loan with collateral from the Company’s financial holdings. It was planned to break ground on the Theater in January. The end of February came, and ground was still not broken for the Theater, which is normal in a business deal like this, Plans have to be approved by the City and bids have to be summited to Contractors. March came and went and still nothing happened. Two days after Curtis’s April 16, 2018 began one of the Company’s official contacted Curtis and told him one of the Principle Partners of the Company pulled out of the deal, killing the entire deal.
We can clearly see angular SLR Venus partile 180 Curtis Natal Saturn par-excellent planetary symbolism for severing/separating Curtis for this Business arrangement. Angular SLR Venus & SLR Jupiter in combination with angular Natal Saturn was obviously the main theme for this SLR. Ebertin says for one of his deleinations for this Ve-Ju-Sat combination:
Destroyed hopes.

This is a great example of an SLR, although very unfortunate for your friend.

I'd like to point out that Curtis's natal Moon-Mercury is also angular in the SLR; squaring SLR MC. His Moon squares SLR MC partile, but Mercury squares it within a 2°orb. I am more confident to count in natal Mercury's angularity in this case, due to its aspect to Moon, and the hindsight you've given to the events that have unfolded. So now you see, that there's a natal Moon-Mercury-Saturn co-angularity! In my humble opinion, natal Moon-Mercury-Saturn to transiting Venus-Jupiter is excellent symbolism for "killing the entire deal." I won't disagree to the emotional implications of the breaking of the deal, as shown by t.Venus to Curtis's Saturn in your bi-wheel. Yet, I think natal Moon being angular with natal Saturn is already enough symbolism for that.

Thanks Steve for sharing this SLR. It was a great exercise for me.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 am

Scales wrote:

This is a great example of an SLR, although very unfortunate for your friend.

Yes, he was devastated, though for sure he a good mutual business deal for his future.
Scales wrote:
I

'd like to point out that Curtis's natal Moon-Mercury is also angular in the SLR; squaring SLR MC. His Moon squares SLR MC partile, but Mercury squares it within a 2°orb. I am more confident to bring count in natal Mercury's angularity in this case, due to its aspect to Moon, and the hindsight you've given to the events that have unfolded. So now you see, that there's a natal Moon-Mercury-Saturn co-angularity! In my humble opinion, natal Moon-Mercury-Saturn to transiting Venus-Jupiter is excellent symbolism for "killing the entire deal." I won't disagree to the emotional implications of the breaking of the deal, as shown by t.Venus to Curtis's Saturn in your bi-wheel. Yet, I think natal Moon being angular with natal Saturn is already enough symbolism for that.

Scales, this is a most excellent observation on all points, something I missed. Curtis Mercury-Neptune opposed his Moon has always symbolized his emotional make up with his lifelong association with commercial movies and the Theater business. His Moon-Mercury has so much to do with communication/business pertaining to the Theater industry.
Scales wrote:

Thanks Steve for sharing this great SLR. It was a great exercise for me.

And thank you so much for your input.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:03 am

Good work, both of you

I would break Curtis' 4/16/18 SLR down as follows:

t Venus on Asc -0°55'
r Saturn on Dsc -2°35'
t Jupiter on Dsc -2°55'
r Uranus on IC -3°15'
-- t Jupiter conj. r Saturn 0°20' (in mundo)
-- t Jupiter sq. r Uranus 0°20' (in mundo)
-- -- NOTICE: Ju = Sa/Ur 0°00'
-- r Saturn-Uranus sq. 0°40' (in mundo)
-- t Venus-Jupiter op. 1°03'
-- t Venus op. r Saturn 0°22'
-- t Venus sq. r Uranus 2°20' (in mundo)
r Mercury sq. MC +1°34'
t Moon sq. M -0°55'

Moon-Uranus conj. 3°25'

t Uranus op. r Mercury 0°56', op. r Neptune 0°13'
t Saturn sq. r Sun 1°09'

Mostly, I would have led with Steve's first impression, that the Venus-Jupiter opposition across the horizon marks this as an overall pleasant month; but it isn't that simple, and the first clue of trouble is what the natal planets bring. Especially, natal Saturn and Uranus are closely angular, forming a mundane square (0°40') that doesn't show in the natal chart.

I still would have leaned toward the "transits win over natals, thus benefics win over tensions" direction, since Venus and Jupiter are transiting that natal Saturn and Uranus (among other things). But, the more I dig into it, the more difficult it seems. Transiting Moon, Venus, and Jupiter angular vs. natal Mercury, Saturn, and Uranus... that sounds like a happy event for which someone is anxious, worried, providing difficulties, etc.

Something I might well have missed - and would have missed entirely without a careful breakdown - is the one strongest, most precise configuration of the entire chart: Transiting Jupiter is not only closely angular, conjunct natal Saturn, and square (mundane) natal Uranus - patterns that still seem "difficulties but ultimately good fortune" - but: in mundo, Jupiter is 0°20' conjunct natal Saturn on one side and 0°20' square natal Uranus on the other: It's 0°00' from the midpoint of these two aspects.

Ebertin hits this almost exactly on the head: "losses, damage to a building"!

Was there some special way that he was protected, saved from personal losses (other than the opportunity), etc.? I still get the strong leaning of "ultimately saved: risks and danger, but aff pulled out of the fire at the last minute" sort of stuff.

There are lots of tensions and opportunities for things disappointing or leaving one agitated, and certainly plenty of room for surprises. As mentioned, transiting Venus opposes natal Saturn. It also squares natal Uranus (mundane). Moon conjoins Uranus (and the Moon is angular). Natal Mercury is angular and, though transiting Uranus is not within realm of foreground or angularity, its partile oppositions to that angular natal Mercury and non-angular natal Neptune are partile - they count regardless of angularity. I'm not at all sure I'd have read this correctly other than the general sense of surprise: In fact, if I'd been Curtis' friend and following him in this project, I'd likely have been telling him that the longer picture of Uranus transiting his Mercury-Neptune was the fulfillment of his dream regarding this new concept theater.

I also can't miss that transiting Saturn is almost partile square his natal Sun. In fact, Saturn is stationary at 14°09' Sagittarius, 1°09' from square his Sun.

What a way to spoil a nice Venus-Jupiter opposition! This is a very cmplicated chart, and I'm not sure I'd have read it correctly... but it certainly would have left me uneasy.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:51 am

Jim wrote:

in mundo, Jupiter is 0°20' conjunct natal Saturn on one side and 0°20' square natal Uranus on the other: It's 0°00' from the midpoint of these two aspects.
Ebertin hits this almost exactly on the head: "losses, damage to a building"!

Great observation Jim.
Jim asked:

Was there some special way that he was protected, saved from personal losses (other than the opportunity), etc.?

Curtis had no money investment in this deal, only the investment of a-lot of time spent which he was glad to do for the possible opportunity. Curtis was told a principle partner of the Company had pulled out of the deal, but not to give-up entirely that the Company may redo the deal later.
Jim wrote:

I also can't miss that transiting Saturn is almost partile square his natal Sun. In fact, Saturn is stationary at 14°09' Sagittarius, 1°09' from square his Sun.

Yes, I noted this when I first did his SLR. When I saw nothing was being done on the project at the end of Feb, I became suspicious and started looking at his forward SLR’s and was stunned when I reviewed his April 16, SLR. I really didn’t know how to interpret this SLR, but I became very worried with his Natal Saturn tight angular SLR Dsc. I started prepping Curt that I felt like something could be wrong and he should contact them in April if he had not heard from the principle partner who worked with Curt on this project. Curt strongly felt everything was going to be good—'just normal business delays’ Curt said.
Jim said:

This is a very complicated chart, and I'm not sure I'd have read it correctly... but it certainly would have left me uneasy.

Exactly the way I felt Jim and had mixed emotions when I analysis the SLR. I think I posted this SLR and asked you how you read this SLR, but my memory may not be serving me correctly. I kept asking myself WTF was Natal Saturn doing on the SLR Dsc with this SLR Venus-Jupiter angular signature. His Natal Saturn is unaspected with any tight Natal aspects but was enough to soil the deal with Saturn’s symbolism. I just hope for Curtis sake the deal may renew itself as possibly a benefic effect for Curt’s next SSR in Oct 2018, good benefic symbolism for his 2018 SSR. I told Curtis not give up hope entirely, lets wait and see what his next SSR brings to his business table.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:52 am

Here is a use for that new wheel form I did the other day. While Curtis' SLR using only SLR planets is quite clear in one direction, it gives a totally different impression if we look at it with only his natal planets in the SLR framework. Here's how that looks (and the numbers above show that Saturn and Uranus have a 0°40' square that doesn't show ecliptically).

Curtis SLR Natals.jpg