How to choose a city to live in

[Avshalom Binyamin]

I've noticed in other threads on this forum, where a person is considering different cities to live in and is getting recommendations.

What is the underlying process here? Are you running a birth chart for the date and time, and just changing the location to see what angularity changes?

look in Solar Fire for the icon-button "View chart in astro-mapping module", the button is a picture of the globe.

if you are calculating your charts online, there's an option on astro.com to calculate astro-map for a chart (I've used it long ago, can't remember where it is on the site, but I know it's easy to find if you have an account there)

here's the map from Solar Fire for your natal chart.
it shows along which longitudes & latitudes on Earth you have angular planets - of course, some of the lines go through cities and habitable areas, some not

Thanks Danica.

Looks like I had the general idea right. I was just doing it manually.

So, how does the new angularity mesh with your birth angles? Is it kind of like: move to angular Jupiter to be more jovial, move to angular Mercury to emphasize intellectual side, move to angular Sun to emphasize sense of destiny/purpose. And avoid angular Uranus if you don't want to feel like a perpetual outsider, etc??

As I've been told - you take your birth chart with you...but yes you'd be correct: move towards a jupiter line to be more jovial/lucky, move toward a venus line to be more creative/romantic etc...

As well, you may benefit from "The Psychology of AstroCartography" by Jim Lewis (with Kenneth Irving):

http://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Astro- ... 102&sr=8-1

Is that essentially the same as the book that used to come with Astro-Cartography maps from Jim? Or is it significantly different? (I still have that one around here somewhere, I think. SHold dig around for it. Nice book.)

Is that essentially the same as the book that used to come with Astro-Cartography maps from Jim? Or is it significantly different?

I think it is different. I never got an official ACG map, but it would make sense that it came with a basic interpretive booklet. Correct me if I assume incorrectly.

"The Psychology of AstroCartography" here was published by Arkana, runs over 300 pages, and includes interps for natal paran crossings.

Had to look through it to answer your question, Jim. Had forgotten how much information was in there. I need to re-read it, pronto! (For general knowledge, mind you, as I am very happy here under natal Jupiter at relocated MC).

D.Donovan Kinsolving

Thanks for the extra tips. After reviewing, I don't think there are any places that would make things drastically different. Yeah, Saturn's a bit close to an angle, but eh...

Compounded when I tried to figure out what might be good based on my wife's chart too. Narrowed things down to Saint Petersburg Russia, and Anchorage Alaska. No thanks.

Has the makings for some cool vacation ideas though.

do fixed stars apply in astrocartography or should I just look at the planets?

do fixed stars apply in astrocartography or should I just look at the planets?

Honest answer: I don't know that anyone has investigated it. (I have Regulus rising in LA, but I don't know if that makes me seem more solar, or I just grew up <g>.)

Stick with the planets. They're solid. if you want to look at the fixed stars in this context, do that as an add-on after you've come to your primary conclusons.

I have been trying to figure this out for some time now, and that is why I have never felt at home where I was born, and I always wanted to get away, which I managed to do after much struggle. In astrocatrtography, I cannot see anything negative except Algol descending in the location where I was born, which would explain everything.

There may not be anything wrong with where you are living. It may just be that there is someplace else calling out for you where you "need" to be.

can that be seen through astrocartography?

Sure. That's what it's for. Search the world for the right place.

if a country has a mars, saturn, neptune or pluto line running through it, should the whole country be avoided?

Well, don't include Pluto in that list unless it's afflicted.

No, not whole country. Just within orb of the lines.

Well, don't include Pluto in that list unless it's afflicted.

can I apply the same principle for any other planet, including the sun and moon, if the planet is afflicted in the natal chart?

Thanks for clarifying about the country

Yes. The broad principle is that people are happiest living where natal Sundays, Venus, Jupiter, or Uranus is on the angles, provided the planet isn't afflicted. Or you can pick a specific planet for a particular goal.

Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Yes, it's aspects by two malefics. That's the basic definition of 'afflicted.' Besides, any place where the Jupiter is on an angle, Neptune would by angular also, right?

I have Uranus/Mars on the DSC, cnj!
would Uranus alone be good, because I've felt that where I live at, currently, I've always been miserable, kind of like I've always been attacked.

I have Uranus/Mars on the DSC, cnj!
would Uranus alone be good, because I've felt that where I live at, currently, I've always been miserable, kind of like I've always been attacked.

If you can separate them, it would be better - together, they are accident prone etc. All of this depends on how close the aspect, how close one can be to an angle without the other being on an angle, etc.

Post your birthdata in this thread and I'll take a fast look.

9/4/84 Kingsville Texas 11:44pm

9/4/84 Kingsville Texas 11:44pm

Actually, when I see how close it is, how strong it is, the sign it's in (where both are dignified), and its relation to your Sun, I'm not nearly as turned off to the Mars-Uranus idea. It could be a place of enormous strength, power, and effectiveness, especially if you could get the Sun angular at the same time (and, perhaps, the Sun stronger).

I'm wary of the Jupiter-Neptune, although, with your close Venus-Jupiter square, if the goal is relaxation, comfort, blissful leisure, then you might to for the Venus-Jupiter being exactly on the angle and the Neptune tagging along. (You didn't mention the Venus square to Jupiter: This benefic aspect is closer - only half the orb - and outweighs the Neptune affliction.)

Notice that these two clusters give a significant choice in the kind of life you want to life: Primarily striving, competing, pushing, innovating vs. primarily comfortable, lesurely, relaxing, indulging.

So what do we come up with? (You don't say what geographical parameters you find acceptable, so I'll go hog wild and let you sort it out.)

In the U.S., your Mars-Uranus line slices through the middle of the country on a curve from eastern Montana down through Louisiana. (At least this suggests that, if you aren't the shy type, you should go to Mardi Gras, alone, at least once! ) I'd prefer the Sun being joined for a permanent location, as mentioned before. I'd avoid Montana where Pluto is also mundanely on the angles: you have a triple Mars-Uranus-Pluto conjunction on the Descendant there.

Your Sun is on the IC in Boston. You might feel quite strong and bright there. (It then drops off into the Atlantic Ocean.) Your Jupiter and Neptune descending lines cut through the northeast in general, with JUpiter passing through New York City, and Neptune farther west (Toronto, then curving down toward Washington, DC, catching the western tip of NY and the middle of Pennsylvania.)

Someplace between Boston and NYC balances the presence of the Sun on the IC and Jupiter setting - a nice paran. To give perspective: Manhattan has Jupiter exactly setting, Venus less than 2 degrees from square the horizon, Neptune a few degrees below the Descendant, and Sun about 3 degrees from the IC. Boston, in contrast, has the Sun exactly obn the IC, Jupiter less than three degrees from the Descendant, Venus still 2 degrees from square the horizon (from the other side), and Neptune backed off quite a bit (8 degees by ecliptic and 5 degrees mundanel from the horizon). I think you could find Boston to be an amazing place to life and thrive (all the lesurely Venus-Jupiter & touch of Neptune side, but with your Leo Sun bang on the IC - "feeling at home," and finding the roots and flowering of your individuality.)

Maybe that's all the information you need. But let me through some other (possibly quirky) ideas at you.

VIETNAM. Your Mars-Uranus rising with your Sun on the Midheaven. Whoa, you could rule that place! <g>

ROME. Sun rising, Uranus on the IC, Mars slightly off. I suggest a glorious vacation there.

SYRIA. Jupiter on the MC down through the middle of the country, Neptune a bit off to the side. With careful selection, you could have an aura of protection there amidst all the explosions and gun-fire and blood-splatter. (But avoid Afghanistan where there's a Pluto line.)

PERU. Mars-Uranus setting, Sun on the IC. (Better than Ecuador, and especially "Middle Americas" in general, where it's just Mars-Uranus.)

Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Yes, it's aspects by two malefics. That's the basic definition of 'afflicted.' Besides, any place where the Jupiter is on an angle, Neptune would by angular also, right?

that's right. Unfortunately I have such confguration. Does it incline to bad luck? By bad luck I mean not having favourable circumstances in life

Thank you Jim. Would Jupiter conjunct Neptune and sextile saturn in the natal chart make Jupiter afflicted in some way?

Yes, it's aspects by two malefics. That's the basic definition of 'afflicted.' Besides, any place where the Jupiter is on an angle, Neptune would by angular also, right?

that's right. Unfortunately I have such confguration. Does it incline to bad luck? By bad luck I mean not having favourable circumstances in life

What do I have to bribe you with to get you stop thinking in terms of good luck and bad luck? <g>

It means you can't have natal Jupiter come into play without Saturn and Neptune ideas come into play. If the Jupiter were on an angle it wouldmore likely mean you're a crook. (Strong material desires + bent ethics and willingness to do all sorts of things to meet the Jupiter greed.)

Jim, while we are at the subject - what you think is the worst, and what the best I can expect of my natal Sun-Saturn oppos. on angles (in relocation chart)?
here's the chart: http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=631
(Pluto is there too, but Sun-Saturn aspect is much closer)

luckily I have nothing in the foreground, except chiron but it is not a planet....

It means you can't have natal Jupiter come into play without Saturn and Neptune ideas come into play. If the Jupiter were on an angle it wouldmore likely mean you're a crook. (Strong material desires + bent ethics and willingness to do all sorts of things to meet the Jupiter greed.)

Yikes. I have angular neptune/saturn/jupiter...

Crook!

That really shatters my ability to play innocent.

Thanks so much for the reply Jim,
Like I've mentioned before I have Neptune cnj Mars by progression, and it's now active and partile on my pr DSC. When pr Jupiter comes to the DSC by pr in 2018, will it still be influenced by its conjunction to Neptune and square to Venus?

Thanks so much for the reply Jim,
Like I've mentioned before I have Neptune cnj Mars by progression, and it's now active and partile on my pr DSC. When pr Jupiter comes to the DSC by pr in 2018, will it still be influenced by its conjunction to Neptune and square to Venus?

Progressed planets are only responsive to partile aspects. If those planets don't form partile aspects to it, then... no.

can solar fire calculate primary directions?

I have calculated my astro cartography chart, but I still can't figure out where the best place is as my Jupiter is afflicted... can anyone help?

I have calculated my astro cartography chart, but I still can't figure out where the best place is as my Jupiter is afflicted... can anyone help?

I would suggest Sun or Uranus lines.

thank you Danica...which angle is best?

thank you Danica...which angle is best?

maybe the more practical approach would be to look at the places themselves where SO or UR are angular (whatever angle) and decide according to that (is there a city/inhabited area, is it a war territory, or jungle, desert etc. - not sayin' those are not good, just that practical concerns such as these can be useful ).

I just noticed that my wife and I both have angular Venus running through Argentina. Her's goes right through Buenos Aires, the capital. Mine goes through the country west about 100 miles or so, I think. We both have Venus in Leo.

I went to Argentina when I was 19 and really loved it. I'm getting the intuition like it would be a good country for the 2 of us to spend time in (i.e., extended working vacations), pursuing our own life passions. Does that make sense with the astrology, or am I misinterpreting?

I have calculated my astro cartography chart, but I still can't figure out where the best place is

One place you don't go anywhere near is Oaxaca, Mexico!

Am I seeing that right: Sun/Pluto in the middle of India, Madhya Pradesh region maybe? A spiritual illumation is possible there, but much worse also. Be careful about that (think male power and domination gone bad, you get my drift?). You may find something powerful in religious traditions emanating from that particular region, like a particular guru, or the Hindu/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist/Sufi traditions, without your having to go there.

The practical advice given by the others is correct. Look at the astrological possibilities, clarify what you want out of it, then do hard research on living conditions, job opportunities, weather and climate, politics, transportation, etc.

The best thing I ever did was move under my Jupiter/MC line. There were reasons why I chose one particular city, and it was overall a good choice, I think. There are places north and south of here, but there are practical, non-astrological issues that are of concern to me: To the north, overcrowding and pollution, excessive religious influences, too-small towns, wilderness, excessively long and cold winters, that sort of thing. South of here are cultural and language differences, and um, nothing but water.

Did you post your birthdata? If so, I missed it.

-Derek

Hi Derek,
I find interesting what you have to say because Mexico is a place that I have never had any desire to go to, and when I was offered the trip I declined due to a really bad "gut feeling". India is another place that I am wary of and that I do not particularly wish to go to. I don't like following gurus, plus I find India very dangerous (I agree with male power and domination gone bad...I had enough of that where I was born), although I see what you mean, the only Eastern philosophy I can relate to is Theosophy and certain aspects of Buddhism. So far astrocartography hasn't impressed me very much (this is from what I could see for myself as well) because I have no desire to relocate to third world countries.
Thanks for your help

Jim, what's your advice regarding relocation where one turns from Mars-closest-to-angle (9°in mundo to ASC; it's the place of birth) to a place with this situation: Pluto closest to angle (conj. MC 05°30' in mundo), and making a T-square with exact Moon-Uranus opposition (which does not exist in the birth-place loc.), orb 2°from Pluto (both are thus about 7°from AC-DC axis) ?

Jim, what's your advice regarding relocation where one turns from Mars-closest-to-angle (9°in mundo to ASC; it's the place of birth) to a place with this situation: Pluto closest to angle (conj. MC 05°30' in mundo), and making a T-square with exact Moon-Uranus opposition (which does not exist in the birth-place loc.), orb 2°from Pluto (both are thus about 7°from AC-DC axis) ?

First of all, the really significant effects, natal planets moving to local angles should be within 1-2°. I've seen very broad, general effects (of the "yeah, you can tell it's more prominent, but not much" sort) out to maybe 5°, but generally we're looking for that tight 1-2° band.

So - mostly - I wouldn't consider that there are any planets at all on the local angles in the example you gave. Based on angularity to the locality, I would't consider that anything is there.

There are a couple of things that might make the shift seem more important, though.

For example, if the Pluto is in the immediate background at the birthplace, it's probably close enough to "stand out" and be a stronger, more defining characteristic in the life - perhaps nothing more complicated that it seeming that the life has totally reinvented itself by moving to the new location, and that one is exposed to things outside the range of the sorts of experience one had (or could have had) at the birthplace.

The other is the emergence of new parans within 1-2°. When you say the Moon-Uranus opposition doesn't exist at birthplace, do you mean it's a paran? Especially given the lack of closely angular planets at the new locale, I'd pay much attention to parans within 1-2° at the new latitude.

Jim,
what puzzles my about astrocartography is that the location of birth does not show whether it is good or not for the native. I have known four people, including myself, who wanted to get out of their country of birth as soon as possible because it felt very "toxic" to be in. When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth, which always looks like the best place to live. How can one reconcile cases like mine and the results of astrocrtography? I realize I don't know much about the subject and if you know the answer to this question it would be very much appreciated.

what puzzles my about astrocartography is that the location of birth does not show whether it is good or not for the native.

What's "good or not" depends on so many factors (even ignoring the arbitrariness of "good" and "bad"). For example, whether or not one's original family relationships are "good" will have a lot to do with how that location feels - and how it affects most people for the first many years of their lives.

Mostly, I think the birth location registers (especially in the infant's psyche, where original decisions are made that affect us long after) as "this is the world - this is how things are"; which, really, is an experiencing of oneself as the real context of one's life. I tend to think of locality astrology as showing what might get added when one also goes somewhere else - expanding the range of experience in life. (American Astrology had an insightful article on Gerald Ford soon after his assuming the presidency, showing how - since he spent most of his "growing up" time in a location other than his birthplace - incorporated into his permanent character the traits of the planet angular in that second formative location.)

Every location won't necessarily have a particular "meaning" in terms of locality astrology. One's distinctive experiences there are based on other factors, such as how one's character relates to the physical and psychological climate, and what relationships one has there.

In addition to all of the above, if one is long away from the birthplace then it does take on more of a distinctive "locality - going elsewhere" quality. One never loses what the birthchart shows, just gains in the new location; but, being long away, you can see how certain things fade. Using myself as an example: I was born with an angular Moon. I still have that temperament, I'm quite the lunar person even having lived 2,000 miles away for almost 40 years - but, when I occassionally return to my home town, I can feel that return to the angular Moon zone as if it's something brand new. It's hard for me to shield - I'm hyper-sensitive physically and empathically - the psychologically environment feels instantly different, as if it's denser, more humid (like the air! <g>). Some of this effect is, of course, related to family relationships in that place, and old memories stirring and having unconscious effects, etc. - but I can start to feel the effects when I step off the plane in Chicago (still a couple of hours from my home town), and I have none of those associations with Chicago. It's definitely the Moon line.

I have known four people, including myself, who wanted to get out of their country of birth as soon as possible because it felt very "toxic" to be in. When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth, which always looks like the best place to live. How can one reconcile cases like mine and the results of astrocrtography? I realize I don't know much about the subject and if you know the answer to this question it would be very much appreciated.

[/quote]

Jim, I understand what you are saying. What I still cannot explain is why my birth location makes me physically ill (not psychologically), the doctors said my condition was chronic and there was nothing they could do about it. As soon as I stepped out of that country and went to the UK, my heath returned with no medication whatsoever. The doctor here didn't even notice I ever suffered from that condition because it has disappeared. I was expecting to see this pattern indicated in astrocartography, but it is not able do this. I guess it is one of its limitations.

Jim, I understand what you are saying. What I still cannot explain is why my birth location makes me physically ill (not psychologically), the doctors said my condition was chronic and there was nothing they could do about it. As soon as I stepped out of that country and went to the UK, my heath returned with no medication whatsoever. The doctor here didn't even notice I ever suffered from that condition because it has disappeared. I was expecting to see this pattern indicated in astrocartography, but it is not able do this. I guess it is one of its limitations.

I don't know. We don't have your full birth data yet, so I can't offer a full opinion. (I understand that not everyone wants to give their full data in public.) Some "maybe" scenarios:

-- There could be something in the chart not yet detected. (For example, are their parans at birthplace that disappear at the new location? Was something in the immediate background in Italy that moved out of the background in England? I ask that especially because strong dynamic aspects in the background are often the key to health issues as "unexpressed strong dynamics in the psyche.")
-- Is there a climate effect? Some health issues resolve just because of climate change, different allergen exposure, or any number of environmental things.
-- Was there a significant psychological change (from bad to good) that accompanied the move? That certainly could impact health signficantly.

thank you Jim.
To answer your questions as best as I can

-- There could be something in the chart not yet detected. (For example, are their parans at birthplace that disappear at the new location? Was something in the immediate background in Italy that moved out of the background in England? I ask that especially because strong dynamic aspects in the background are often the key to health issues as "unexpressed strong dynamics in the psyche.")

I am not sure about this. Neptune trine the ascendant disappears here (Andover, Hampshire UK), but as you told me, trines to the ascendant don't count. It looks pretty much the same

-- Is there a climate effect? Some health issues resolve just because of climate change, different allergen exposure, or any number of environmental things.
The climate here was supposed to make my condition worse. When I lived in New Jersey, especially in the winter, I still was very ill.

-- Was there a significant psychological change (from bad to good) that accompanied the move? That certainly could impact health signficantly.

No, it went from bad to worse, then it changed to good after my health was restored. I can't explain it, it feels like Saturn has finally released its grip on my health here, and I have been given a second chance to study and grow which was denied to me before (I won't go into detail here but I am not exaggerating).

Thank you for all your help Jim

Without inquiring unnecessarily into the exact health issues (but acknowledging that I might make a wrong call because of not knowing about them) - let's see what your chart says in that regard.

Natally, you have a close Mars-Saturn conjunction (being flared up this week BTW with Mars' transit) - in the sign of Saturn's exaltation and Mars' detriment. You also have a partile (11') Mercury-Pluto square, and a partile (19;) Moon-Venus square. I pick these out because all are in the background. Therefore, they represent strong, dynamic parts of your character demanding expression, but not likely to get expression because they are background.

One might estimate, in advance, that your greatest tendency to serious health issues would be described by Mercury-Pluto, Moon-Venus, and/or Mars-Saturn.

Movbing to Andover, the Mars-Saturn (especially the Mars) came right to the angle. Your Moon-Venus OTOH moves even more precisely into the immediate background. If your health issues were Moon-Venus, I would not expect it to get better (and possibly to get worse). OTOH, if your health issues are caused by your natal Mars-Saturn conjunction being suppressed and unexpressed, then I would expect that it would resolve as you owned, expressed, and finally gave serious voice to this very strong, long-resisted side of yourself.

Birthplace Parans
For your birthplace, you have the following parans. (Don't worry about what angles are involved. I list them just for reference.)

Jupiter (Asc) square Pluto (67')

Sun (Dsc) square Saturn (67') and Mars (68')
(The Mars and Saturn are not, themselves, within orb for this purpose, but the Sun sets just as they cross the Midheaven and actually hits their midpoint within 1' or less.)

Sun (IC) square Moon (Dsc) (13')

Venus (IC) square Mars (Dsc) (95')

Current Residence Parans

Jupiter (Asc) square Mars (MC) [16'], Saturn (MC) [119']

Sun (IC) square Moon (Dsc) [65'], Mars (Dsc) [65']
Moon (Dsc) conjunct Mars (Dsc) [130']
(The Moon-Mars paran-conjunction is probably too wide to count; except that, once more, the Sun is squaring into it, hitting the midpoint to the minute of arc!)

Venus (IC) square Saturn (Dsc) (23')

Uranus (Dsc) conjunct Pluto (Dsc) (33')

Thank you so much Jim for taking the time to look into this. The health problems you mentioned, can they be found in the combination of stellar influences by Ebertin? I have it here but cannot find anything for mercury-pluto, so I can't tell you if it has changed or not.
According to this book, Mars-Saturn is bone problems, and moon venus is femminine problems, is that right?

Thanks

I see now that it's Pluto and Mercury (not the Sun) in paran in India, This puts a very different flavor on the matter, in the direction of intellectual attraction and repulsion, and lessens the threat of personal danger that could come with the Sun. But yes I know what you mean about living in a First World versus Third World country. If you're considering the whole world, then that's the kind of broad stroke many might apply immediately.

Trouble is, the most heavily popuated areas are on your malefic lines. Your benefic lines are in sparsely popualted areas. You have probably noticed this. Some exceptions: The Moon in southern California, Venus in Salt Lake City, and Uranus setting from Milwaukee through South Carolina. If you take any stock in Chiron, its rising line closely tracks Uranus setting, so we have - what? - alternative medicine, energy healing, teaching philosophy counter the prevailing paradigm?

Uranus on IC runs the Greece and the Slavic countries to the North. Perhaps you have no attraction to this area, either.

In Western Europe, your astrocartography is fairly quiet until you get to the UK, Spain and Portugal. Mars-Saturn-Pluto: forget it.

Another place to consider is Australia. For the 10AM birthtime, Mercury on the Decendent runs right along the whole eastern coast of Australia making it strongly angular in such major cities as Sydney and Newcastle and angular enough in Brisbane, Canberra and Melbourne. Education, teaching and writing (think: internet) would be highly favored here.

Venus on Desc is close to Adelaide, and while Sun-Desc and Jup-Asc don't hit any major cities on the southern coast, you could be a big fish in a small pond there. Look at the corresponding coastal hits on the north side; I don't know whether the climate there is agreeable, as I understand it's a lot more tropical.

The Sun and Venus lines bracket the Spencer Gulf region and it looks fairly well citified and modern. You may find the region empowering and congenial.

Avoid New Zealand much as you would Mexico. There's that pesky Mars-Saturn-Pluto combination again.

Ju-MC hits Vancouver Island, but there's just National Forests on that side.

By all means, get the astrocartography book mentioned earlier in this thread in order to fill out the interpretations, and use Google Maps, Wikipedia and tourist bureau web sites.

-Derek
[edit April 7, 2014]

When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth

Freya, I'm puzzled by this statement. If you're saying what I think, then be sure that you have Local Space Lines - Planet Directions unchecked, and instead check each of teh four Planet/Angle Lines options and click the In Mundo radio button.

-Derek

Thank you so much Jim for taking the time to look into this. The health problems you mentioned, can they be found in the combination of stellar influences by Ebertin?

Don't know. That's good, but hardly comprehensive.

I have it here but cannot find anything for mercury-pluto, so I can't tell you if it has changed or not.

For that, I would suspect neurological or other nervous system (including cognitive) issues, if it came out as a health issue.

According to this book, Mars-Saturn is bone problems, and moon venus is femminine problems, is that right?

That's too narrow. You need a wide breadth of astrology and understanding health, body functioning, psyche-soma interaction, the way the body enacts metaphors of the psyche, etc.

For Moon-Venus, yes, I'd suspect something related to 'female' issues or, more broadly, hormonal imbalance issues.

For Mars-Saturn, it could be far more than that. Anything suppressing Mars, anything inflaming Saturn, bone functions for sure, inflammation profile issues in the broadest sense for sure, some cardio-vascular issues such as hypertension, stroke, etc., plus anything that puts you in a state of intense struggle (so, in theory, anything that is an abnormal exacerbation of the immune system, though I haven't seen examples of this or statistics on it, other than examples of inflammation-related diseases).

I'm not saying you'll have these. I'm saying that, whatever your health issue was (which you know, and I don't), these are the symbols that would enact it.

Thank you for clarifying Jim. Yes, the Mars Saturn issues definitely have showed up throughout my life, although one of them is getting better since I have come here.

(so, in theory, anything that is an abnormal exacerbation of the immune system, though I haven't seen examples of this or statistics on it, other than examples of inflammation-related diseases).

if you are interested I can give you my example in a PM, four doctors here, including the specialist, had never seen it before because it is so rare.

Mercury pluto comes out as mild dyslexia.

Moon Venus....that's the odd one, it's the problem that has disappeared entirely, although I suspect to still have some vitamin/mineral deficiency.

I'm guessing your temperament has changed since you moved, and you are expressing your Mars-Saturn conjunction in behavior - at a level you haven't historically done in your life.

Moon-Venus: I almost mentioned that these are write on the Vertex (Antivertex & Northpoint). I wouldn't think this would undo the background effect, but possibly it does.

When I cast the astrocartography chart, the lines branch out from the location of birth

Freya, I'm puzzled by this statement. If you're saying what I think, then be sure that you have Local Space Lines - Planet Directions unchecked, and instead check each of teh four Planet/Angle Lines options and click the In Mundo radio button.

-Derek

Thank you Derek, I had a feeling I was doing something wrong.

I will definitely avoid the areas you mentioned, that is Mexico and New Zealand. As soon as I saw them I recognized why I never wanted to go there in the first place. I think I may have to endure the proximity of a Mars line if I want to live in Europe and in civilized countries. I did a lot of travelling to third world countries for humanitarian purposes, and after what I saw I swore to myself never to move to any of those places ever again. I got really ill in Burkina Faso with typhoid fever...that's when I stopped going.

I'm guessing your temperament has changed since you moved, and you are expressing your Mars-Saturn conjunction in behavior - at a level you haven't historically done in your life.

Yes, it has, including for the moon-venus issues. I have deliberately done this thanks to the study of astrology, which I have begun since I moved here.

When you say the Moon-Uranus opposition doesn't exist at birthplace, do you mean it's a paran? Especially given the lack of closely angular planets at the new locale, I'd pay much attention to parans within 1-2° at the new latitude.

not sure if it's a paran.
this is the situation: I'm considering (as a long-term plan) Windsor, Ontario (Canada) as a place to relocate with my family.
the birth data given above are my daughter's. here is the natal chart:



and here's the relocated chart:


then I've looked at it in mundo, and noticed the mentioned factors (PL proximity to MC in mundo, and the Moon-Uranus opps.).
I calculate in mundo using the "Z-Analoque Prim. Vert." SF option, and can not make the prettier chart form (having the Gold version of SF); here's that chart:

There's an error in the relocation map, it seems. You have the same time on both charts, but in different time zones. Ther 10:38 AM CET would be 4:38 AM EST, with a Midheaven of 3 Virgo 10. Pluto is just within three degrees of the Eastpoint, and Uranus is exactly square the 13 Sco 47 Ascendant.

In any case, what you showed in the PV chart above might be termed a "mundane aspect." It looks like it might also be a paran, though, so we can check:

Pluto MC 265°19'
Uranus Asc 258°43'
Moon Dsc 256°33'

Pluto doesn't really make the T, but there is a slightly wide Moon-Uranus paran opposition at that latitude.

While I have the chart up, here are the other parans for Windsor:

Venus conj. Sun (setting together, 87')
Mars opposite Jupiter (in RA, thus MC and IC: 24')
Mercury conjunct Venus (in RA, thus MC and IC: 43')
Sun (MC) sq. Jupiter (Dsc), 11'
Uranus (MC) sq. Pluto (Dsc), 1'

Moving to Andover, the Mars-Saturn (especially the Mars) came right to the angle. Your Moon-Venus OTOH moves even more precisely into the immediate background.

Jim, did you see this with a relocation chart? Do you think it is dangerous to travel this week, since my mars-saturn conjunction is affected by Mars transit?

Moving to Andover, the Mars-Saturn (especially the Mars) came right to the angle. Your Moon-Venus OTOH moves even more precisely into the immediate background.

Jim, did you see this with a relocation chart? Do you think it is dangerous to travel this week, since my mars-saturn conjunction is affected by Mars transit?

"Dangerous" might be too strong a word. Just be careful. Hiding from such things just limits life too much IMHO.

How does your lunar return look?

I think it looks awful.... however so far nothing major has happened, I have been very stressed, but nothing else, that is why I asked about travelling. I am worried about the mars- saturn conjunction near the midheaven. It looks horrible

Jim, thank you for doing the analysis for me.

There's an error in the relocation map, it seems. You have the same time on both charts, but in different time zones. Ther 10:38 AM CET would be 4:38 AM EST, with a Midheaven of 3 Virgo 10.

it seems that I was doing it all wrong, then!
thinking more on this gets me into metaphysics of Time-Space continuum...

so, in practice, for calculating reloc. chart, what I'm doing is this: translating the time-of-birth for the birth location into UT, and then translating it into 'another' time (differently quantified/expressed time) for another location and stating which 'language' i.e. time-zone I use now. is that correct?

Unless this doesn't work on your version of SF, you shold just be able to pick the chart in the Calculated Charts list, press Shift+F12 (or click Locality on the first drop-down menu), enter a new city, and be done. It will take care of the time adjustments.

Or, manually, yes: Keep the same UT but the new place. OR just put in the birth time and birth time zone along with the new locality longitude and latitude.

Unless this doesn't work on your version of SF, you shold just be able to pick the chart in the Calculated Charts list, press Shift+F12 (or click Locality on the first drop-down menu), enter a new city, and be done. It will take care of the time adjustments.

Eureka! it works!!
praise be the Lords of Solar Fire!

I ran a chart for NYC (I loved living there), and got Uranus about 2 degrees from MC, and Mars about 6 degrees. Should the Mars angularity be a concern? I was a little crazy when I lived there, but then again, I was in a cult. I also overindulged in alcohol a few times, but then again, I was in my early 20s...

I ran a chart for NYC (I loved living there), and got Uranus about 2 degrees from MC, and Mars about 6 degrees. Should the Mars angularity be a concern? I was a little crazy when I lived there, but then again, I was in a cult. I also overindulged in alcohol a few times, but then again, I was in my early 20s...

I think it just means "wild and crazy." Uranus is the main issue. I really haven't noticed local angle contacts showing effects - even "thin" ones - past 5 degrees.

How effective is a relocation chart to determine the suitability of a place, as opposed to astrocartography?

How effective is a relocation chart to determine the suitability of a place, as opposed to astrocartography?

They're exactly the same thing. Just different ways of portraying the same information. (Astro-Cartography is like laying out a thousand or so separate locality charts and being able to see it all at a glance.)

thank you

I think it just means "wild and crazy." Uranus is the main issue. I really haven't noticed local angle contacts showing effects - even "thin" ones - past 5 degrees.

Thanks. My main motivation here (though this is just long-term fantasizing/planning) is my wife. She has angular Neptune near her IC based on her birth in Florida. On the west coast, it's angular Saturn near the MC. I recently realized that moving to Portland placed Saturn in direct conjunction with my wife's MC. It's still tough for her here after 4 years--feeling "on her own", eking out an existence etc.

She has no strong angularity in NYC--her Venus moves to about 6 degrees of Asc.

I know we keep our birth chart wherever we go. But if a place doesn't have strong angularity, would it be more of a "clean slate" effect, or would her natal angular Neptune be "strengthened" or back to "original levels"? I.e., is relocation angularity an "additive" effect, or is there also a "neutralizing/subtractive" effect?

If there is nothing on the angles in a place, it doesn't mean anything in and of itself - in fact, that's the point! It just doesn't add anythng in that way.

She does, though, probably have different parans at that latitude.

Parans are a new topic for me. I'm definitely going to have to get myself fully educated in astrology.

Parans are a new topic for me. I'm definitely going to have to get myself fully educated in astrology.

In Solar Fire, do a natal chart for the location, and open it up. On Reports, pick Star Parans. Set the orb at 0. This will leave a list if the rising, setting, culminating, and anticulminating RAMCs for each planet.

Click Copy, then paste into an Excel spread sheet and massage it to get a sorted table.

Thanks! I'll have to get solar fire first.

Parans is something that I need to look into as well. I am not sure how to read them yet. I recall seeing an excel spreadsheet template on this forum, but I have forgotten where it is exactly.

Just to make sure we are on the same page with the definition of paran; would the following be correct?

Paranatellonta are stars or star groups that fall upon angles at the same time that a significant constellation or planet is also upon the angles. They are viewed as attendants. In ancient astrology the term was also applied to the constellations that ascended with the zodiacal decans.

In modern astrology the term Paran (short for Paranatellonta) is generally used to describe stars or planets that are angular as a planet hits the ascendant, MC, Descendant or IC. For example, the parans of Mercury would be those stars or planets that were rising, culminating, descending of located upon the IC at the same time that Mercury is in any or those positions. Thus if the fixed star Regulus culminates on the Midheaven as Mercury rises on the ascendant it is referred to as a paran of Mercury and considered to have an influence upon its meaning.

I have done no research with star parans—only parans with planets. Quoting from the book ‘Primer of Sidereal Astrology’:

When two or more planets are simultaneously on the same, adjacent, or opposite angles they are said to be in paranatellonta (paran). This is the most powerful of all astrological configurations. Natal planets may enjoy no mutual zodiacal aspect but may be in paranatellonta at certain times of the day. Such natal configurations are particularly important when they fall on the angles of a return map whether cast for the birthplace or for the place of residence. A change in residence can alter the formation of paranatellonta.

One of the best detailed explanations of Parans I have read comes from Jim’s book ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’. My individual research with Parans has definitely proven to my mind they are indeed ‘the most powerful of all astrological configurations’, and in several cases a natal chart will have hidden or ‘potential’ parans not recognized because they are not in a standard zodiacal aspect, the same would apply to return charts. From a relocational standpoint, ‘potential’ parans in a natal chart presents a most intriguing field of possibilities for desired planetary manifestations pertaining to one’s personal psychological attitude, but one must definitely use practical business applications before making a bold re-locational move to test a ‘potential’ paran. I was born with Jupiter rising and my astrograph Jupiter line dissected Atlanta Georgia where I did most of my business for my career, before I knew anything about astrology. The industry from which I earned my living later closed all of their Atlanta branches and relocated their branches to Dallas TX which just so happened to place my Natal conjunction of Saturn-Pluto into a MC Paran in Dallas. When this major corporate business relocation occurred-- it marked in my life the end of my career—my career business Jupiter line over Atlanta was taken away by corporate forces outside my control and it completely changed my entire business attitude from a strong Jupiter attitude to a powerful Saturn attitude. So- by my limited experiences with relocational astrology and planetary psychological manifestations-- I do indeed believe—‘A change in latitude can/could change your attitude.’

When two or more planets are simultaneously on the same, adjacent, or opposite angles they are said to be in paranatellonta (paran). This is the most powerful of all astrological configurations. Natal planets may enjoy no mutual zodiacal aspect but may be in paranatellonta at certain times of the day

Hi Steve, thank you for clarifying that. Are planetary parans aspects in mundo?

Are planetary parans aspects in mundo?

They could be called that - as one variety of in mundo aspect. (And I'm sure I've used it that way on occassion.)

However, it might be confusing to call them that. (And, in any case, they're only one type of theoretical in mundo aspect, and not the one most often meant historically, especially with the literature on classic Placidus-based primary directions.)

(And, in any case, they're only one type of theoretical in mundo aspect, and not the one most often meant historically, especially with the literature on classic Placidus-based primary directions.)

Thank you Jim. what is the traditional definition of an aspect in mundo?

Here's a link to the handy Jim Lewis interpretive booklet:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48191491/Dona ... artoGraphy

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Initially, my instinct was to look for places where Jupiter or Venus are angular. But there are some confounding variables at play:

-I don't have angular Venus anywhere in the continental US
-I have angular Venus through South America (I would be most interested in living in Cordoba, Argentina) but (1) emigrating is no easy task and (2) it puts my daughter's Moon-Saturn opposition right on her Asc/Dsc., so for the next 15 years or so, it will have to be a travel destination, not a home.
-Since Jupiter and Saturn are both near my MC, there aren't very many places on the planet that I can go and get Jupiter angular without also bringing along Saturn angularity. In fact, the Pacific Northwest (where I live) is about as good as I can get, Jupiter-wise, in the continental US.

So, I've been rethinking this a bit. Initially, I thought it would be pointless to relocate to make Mercury angular. I'm angular enough as it is, I thought. But since in my natal chart Mercury is background, and it's only aspect is an octile to Jupiter (which is itself barely foreground), maybe relocating to a place with angular Mercury would allow me to find my voice, and become both creatively prolific and financially successful. Is that sound logic?

Interestingly, I had been thinking about both Atlanta, Georgia and Detroit, Michigan--two places I have never visited, where Mercury is precisely on my MC. Both cities have a transportation theme (Detroit with its automotive history, and Atlanta as a big airline hub). For a couple years, I have been working on a novel set in early 20th century Detroit (about the son of an automotive inventor, naturally). And my company has a branch in Atlanta.

As I was writing this post, a coworker (and potential future manager--I'm trying to arrange a lateral career pivot at my company) invited me to lunch, and we discussed a position he's been trying to get me into. It would involve frequent travel to Atlanta.

Unfortunately, relocation to Atlanta places Uranus and Pluto on my daughters' Dsc and IC, respectively. That doesn't seem like a helpful combo for a kid who is an imaginative idea person who can already be a bit shy about making friends. I would imagine that angular Pluto would be isolating. And it places Neptune precisely on her Mom's IC.

Big picture, it's kind of interesting: her parents both have Saturn generally angular on the West Coast, where daughter's Jupiter is angular.

[Arena]

Your natal planets are pretty clustered, but still if you look at the astrocartography map for the USA, you can see that living in the coastal cities/towns in California from Portland up north to San Francisco some of them will bring Jupiter closer to the angle than Saturn. As soon as you come near LA, your Saturn is angular. Look at relocation chart for Eureka f.ex. and San Francisco.

You also need to cast all the relocation charts for each city to see how they look, especially if you want to see the houses as well. Then I would say you also need to cast solar return charts for the next few years to see how they will turn out for you and your family.

BTW, A combination of Jupiter and Saturn is not a bad aspect. Saturn is not a wealth inhibitor when in aspect to Jupiter.
Jupiter-Saturn is seen often in charts for rich people and Jupiter may actually be quite good in helping Saturn to build up long term wealth.
F.ex. :
George Soros investor and businessman: Jupiter sextile Mercury, Jup sq. Uranus, Jup opp. Saturn
William Henry Vanderbilt: Wide conj. of Jupiter to a Saturn-Mars conj.
Robert Kiyosaki: Partile Jupiter Moon conjunction, partile Jupiter Mars trine and then his Jupiter has a wider trine to Mercury and Saturn.

When I was summarizing leading aspects after having looked into charts of very rich people, I found that Jupiter's aspects to Pluto had the lead along with Jup-Venus with 15 each, next were Jup aspects to the Moon 14 (but we don't know about all of those) and then Jup-Uranus and Jup-Saturn with 12 each.

When you relocate Arnold Schwarzenegger to L.A. California, you see his Jupiter on MC, but Saturn/Pluto also square his MC, and he has tremendous success over there.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Thank you Arena. Those are good points.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Yes, very good points, Arena.
People seem to always look at Jupiter-Saturn aspects as restricting Jupiter, but I think at least half the time, it's opening up Saturn. I always think of Jupiter-Saturn as "enjoying the work" before some kind of restrictive influence. Working for your money, sure, but people like to feel needed and productive too.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Well, technically, I don't have a Jupiter-Saturn aspect (they are 5 deg 56' from conjunct). Natally, Saturn is 3 deg 8' from MC, and Jupiter is 9 deg 4' from MC. Relocated to Portland, the distances are 3 deg 5' and 2 deg 51', respectively. I do have a Jupiter-Uranus sextile (2 deg 42').

Though, I do have Jupiter octile to Saturn for the next couple weeks, as of yesterday, so the finding enjoyment in work bit is relatable right now.

[Arena]

Having Jupiter and Saturn on each side of an angle means that they act as if they are in aspect. 5-6° is still a conjunction, even though a partile conjunction is stronger/more potent. In the example above, they will both be conjunct an angle and hence those almost 6° between them will be like a tight conjunction imo.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

I didn't know that. Cool!

[FlorencedeZ.]

I wholeheartedly agree as well with you Arena on your Jupiter-Saturn insights. And JSAD.
My personal experience is also positive, having an exact midpoint on the angles.
Jupiter does Saturn good.
Regards,
Flo

[UmeFlower]

Can I ask help on this topic?

A relocation astrologer recommended I live anywhere from Phoenix to Los Vegas up through Montana -- this places my moon in the 9th house (nataly it's in the 10th), and moves my 12th house Venus into the 11th house, and brings my 12th Asc-mars a little away from the ascendant.

I've felt great living there, but wonder about the squares to my moon. Moon squares mars and saturn. Wouldn't this be not-ideal to emphasize, by placing the moon on an angle? Moon also has positive trines to all the benefits - sun, Jupiter and Venus, all in the 11th house.

The same astrologer said that I'd have a big push for my career on the east coast, but that it would feel uncomfortable. To me, though, by looking at it, the aspects to 10th house planets there are all trines. My Mercury, Sun, Jupiter and Venus all move to the 10th house. What about it makes it uncomfortable I wonder? When I lived there, I accomplished a lot, received recognition, and felt a little bit of inner conflict that was hard to verbalize, kind of like I was trying to please external expectations of me at the expense of really expressing authentically. There, my natal 6th house planets also move to the 5th (Saturn, Neptune and Uranus). I can't tell where's a better place for this trio (Saturn Neptune and Uranus), 5th or 6th...

Any thoughts? I've read conflicting things about whether 10th house planets are helpful or not -- at the moment, it's kind of that I feel like I'll let people down by not being my "east coast" self -- like by receiving help from teachers and friends back east, I set myself up to have to become this super serious successful person in order to thank them and later support my mom. (Is this nutty sounding?)

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Planets "in houses" are not actually a thing in Sidereal astrology in the way you're using them. (They are in Hindu-Vedic-Jyotish astrology, but we aren't that.)

If you want help here, please post your birthdata (from your birth certificate if possible) as follows:

Month spelled out, day, year.
Time and Time zone
Town or City spelled out (not latitude and longitude)
Current location, also spelled out.

So for example:
February 26, 2019
11:56 PM Central Time
Chicago, Illinois
Current location: Seattle, Washington

[UmeFlower]

Thanks, Jupiter sets at Dawn

My birth data is

May 30, 1989
08:51 am Pacific Daylight Time
Beaverton, Oregon
Current location: Talent, Oregon

[Jim Eshelman]

UmeFlower, welcome to Solunars.

I agree with JSAD that house placements are not as big a deal as many astrologers think and, especially in relocation work, really have no importance. The biggest factor (not the only) is what planets come to angles.

You are quite right that emphasizing your Moon is not your best move. It's squares to Saturn and Neptune potentially draw out the worst sides of you. (Moon is 0°04' from the midpoint of square both of them.) On the other hand, your Venus and Jupiter are unafflicted and innately positive, and you could have a kinder life from emphasizing them.

From your chart, it seems to me that you are a particularly tender soul. (In the Sidereal zodiac you have Sun in Taurus and Moon in Pisces, and your Moon is near an angle.) Yet the Moon aspects show (without getting into it too deeply) some darkness you've had to confront in your first 20 years. There are strengths, things to draw out the best of you - not only your innate compassion but a courageous candor in confronting life (Uranus is closely square Midheaven and Mars rising).

If we keep our attention in the United States (please tell us if we don't need to do that), there is foremost one band I would strongly recommend you avoid. It is a stretch of longitude slicing straight north-south through central Idaho down to the California-Arizona border, passing (for example) through Las Vegas and not far from Boise. This is the band where your Moon culminates and your Saturn-Neptune conjunction squares Midheaven. Anywhere within, say, 150 miles east or west of this is a tough zone.

OTOH, you live in one of the better zones for you, the stretch where your Uranus squares MC. This is a north-south line falling approximately (just a little east of) the longitude shared by Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco. Any place on that line (or about 150 miles either side) stimulates a sense of discovery, openness, excitement. Not a calm life, but an interesting, opening one.

There are two stretches through the middle of the country where Pluto is on an angle but, n many ways, the other eye-catching spot I see is one that will stimulate your mind. Mercury squares your Ascendant through New York, eastern Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, and sits on your Midheaven in Maine. I don't know if you have education ambitions, but this would be a great part of the country to pursue them.

Your Venus and Jupiter aren't angular anywhere in the continental U.S. They sit on Midheaven through parts of Brazil, on the IC through central Australia and due north into Japan. They rise in some currently dangerous areas such as the Middle East (especially Iran and Saudi Arabia, and down across the eastern coast countries of Africa, including Jupiter going right through Johannesburg. (They set across the open Pacific.)

Portland has some definite possibilities. I've already mentioned that it's right on the longitude of a Uranus line. Additionally, it's at a latitude where you have a Moon-Jupiter paran (your Moon is exactly on IC the same minute every day that your Jupiter sets, giving you an implicit Moon-Jupiter aspect). I've attached a small map so you can see the Uranus line running north-south intersecting the Moon-Jupiter line running east-west. (It's just an idea.)

I should ask, though... what are you looking for (your strongest priorities) in a place to live?

Oregon.jpg

[UmeFlower]

(edited post)

I think you answered this elsewhere, forgive ...

Would you consider trines or sextile as considerations in relocation?

[UmeFlower]

Do the moon's nodes have an effect in relocation astrology?

[Jim Eshelman]

Do the moon's nodes have an effect in relocation astrology?

I haven't noticed that they do. In theory, where angular they would show places where associations and connections are more likely.

[UmeFlower]

Thanks for the reply!