Venus- The Planet of Spirituality?

[sotonye]

I've been wondering lately about which planets dispose one toward spiritual pursuits and what not, but since so few are actually dedicated to the path this has been a bit difficult. What I can say more or less for certain, however, is that, by looking in the opposite direction, by looking at planets that promote characteristics opposite the ones I was looking for, I've at least found something, a rough start. If a thing can't be known directly, sometimes we can at least infer something about it by determining what it's not or something like that.

The characteristic traits, the foundations in personality that incline one toward more rarified goals, seem to be as follows: 1) a spirit of cooperation (which translates to willingness to abjure one's own desires and one's own will, a willingness to dissolve into the warm solution of others, and perhaps in turn the warm solution of meditation), 2) divergent thinking (which translates at times to interest in occult works), 3) some strong urge toward truth seeking, which might mean a touch of impracticality.

The planet which seems to produce an effect contrary to the above when closely aspected or alone placed on an angle is Mars (except I think when aspecting the moon). During a transit to my Mars by Jupiter recently I noted how rigid I became, how unwilling I was to bend for anyone or anything, how my sense of self wanted to be emphasized and not dissolved. If I had such an aspect in my natal, I thought, I probably wouldn't pursue the things I do, (though I'd probably get a lot more practical matters done). I noted further that my thinking centered on material gain and industry, nothing divergent or unusual, and that I would probably throw away the truth and its pursuit for something more tangible. I noted also that this is more or less how a large portion of how those Mars dominant persons I know operate. They have a certain edge that I usually don't which makes them extremely effective in business, and which makes more dislinclined than seemingly anyone to simply relax.

From this I began to speculate that the planet of spirituality might be Venus since it's the antipode of Mars, and this is a bit different from the usual attributions of the traits in question to Neptune or the Moon, but Garth Allen, in Taking the Kid Gloves Off Astrology, did say that Venus is the planet of true religion.

I don't have enough examples to back this up, but I have noticed at least in the few people who do maintain some regular spiritual practice that they all have Venus involved in their closest aspect. And this all corresponds (somewhat) well with the descriptions for luminary placements in Taurus.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

People maintain regular spiritual practice because they enjoy it. Enjoyment has to do with Venus. But WHAT you enjoy comes from aspects with other planets among other things.
If someone enjoys martial arts enough to practice very day, that doesn't mean Venus has anything to do with martial arts.

[Veronica]

This is a great thread on popes, people who would be considered spiritual.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2472&hilit=popes

i constantly say to my self that there is a grand canyon between religion and spiritually.

in my youth I felt a huge religious and spiritual pull that i satisified by non conventional means (angular pluto and Aquarian sun scorpio moon/Stellium)
I feel very connected to Spirit and the source and enjoy that feeling.
At 17 i dedicated myself to the Feminine nature that I saw in the moon and in Venus specifically.
my moon is in scorpio
and venus in capricorn.

my moon is conjoined with neptune and jupiter
and my Venus is approaching the descendant, with nice angles to mercury above and mars below.

I enjoy very much my connections to mars and mercury, but I would not say that they are the source of my spiritualness.
My Spirit is where my luminaries burst forth and shine up everything else.
thats where each personas spirit, and core spirituality lay.
Venus never dances far from that flame though, and neither does mars and mercury. they are all a part of how it all works together to bring into being a complex living organism.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

What *isn't* spiritual?

Each planet can connect in some way to an aspect of spirituality, be it magick, or connection, or passion, or ritual, or humility, or inspiration, or mystery, or truth, or divinity.

Even if some sign and planet placements coincide more with what we think of as "material" is there really a clear divide between the two? Or just different ways of being spiritual?

[Veronica]

What *isn't* spiritual?

Each planet can connect in some way to an aspect of spirituality, be it magick, or connection, or passion, or ritual, or humility, or inspiration, or mystery, or truth, or divinity.

Even if some sign and planet placements coincide more with what we think of as "material" is there really a clear divide between the two? Or just different ways of being spiritual?

Perfect!

[sotonye]

This is a great thread on popes, people who would be considered spiritual.

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2472&hilit=popes

Interesting examples of Venus at work, seems to support my theory in a way, (except I have no clue on what basis popes are selected).

i constantly say to my self that there is a grand canyon between religion and spiritually.

Completely agree

in my youth I felt a huge religious and spiritual pull that i satisified by non conventional means (angular pluto and Aquarian sun scorpio moon/Stellium)
I feel very connected to Spirit and the source and enjoy that feeling.

I also can see a deeply spiritual nature arising from the influence of Uranus and Pluto, (as well as from the Moon and Neptune as you go on to mention).

I enjoy very much my connections to mars and mercury, but I would not say that they are the source of my spiritualness.

Agree. I would 100% attribute this to your close Moon-Neptune aspect. Which is to say that I don't think Venus is the only spiritual planet, just the one I see showing up most often in the small list of charts I have. And really the traits I gave in the first post correspond well with both of those dreamy planets just as well as Venus.

[sotonye]

What *isn't* spiritual?

What isn't spiritual are the behaviors that run contrary to the ones outlined, which can be summed up as: 1) unwillingness to sublimate the will 2) aversion toward divergent modes of thinking

Each planet can connect in some way to an aspect of spirituality, be it magick, or connection, or passion, or ritual, or humility, or inspiration, or mystery, or truth, or divinity.

Let's say this were true, which I don't think it is. It wouldn't actually mean that one planet isn't more spiritually compelling than another. Each planet has its needs, some planets have needs that correspond well with what we would define as spirituality (which isn't a blanket term but a term that connotes something more or less specific), while others simply do not. Which is why if we had birth times of every aspirant in the world, a pattern would become clear in the same way that they do for every other kind of behavior.

Even if some sign and planet placements coincide more with what we think of as "material" is there really a clear divide between the two? Or just different ways of being spiritual?

Yeah I don't think materialism and spirituality can be confused, the division is so clear in fact that there are two separate words. Does the word "spirit" connote anything material?

[Jim Eshelman]

I've been wondering lately about which planets dispose one toward spiritual pursuits and what not [...]

From this I began to speculate that the planet of spirituality might be […]

Sotonye, if one defines spirituality exactly as you define it, then I agree with your conclusion.

But my agreement comes from the way you stacked the deck. Not everyone defines or experiences spirituality as you do. If someone defined it differently, then their definition would lead to a different conclusion.

Personally, I think the planet of spirituality is one or more of the following: Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto.

Probably all of them, actually. Especially all of them, actually.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Yeah I don't think materialism and spirituality can be confused, the division is so clear in fact that there are two separate words. Does the word "spirit" connote anything material?

Yeah, I get that there's material reality and spirituality are different things. But I personally see more overlap. Spiritual and material reality are entwined and affect each other. The world I walk in is material and spiritual at the same time. A sunset is just a spinning planet, but it provokes a spiritual response.

When I see a title like, "the Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" I'm not thrown for a loop.

[Jim Eshelman]

Transformation of the nature of one's relationship to materiality is basic to much of spirituality. In fact, one of the highest initiated states of the Qabbalistic model is attributes to Saturn and one of its basic characteristics is the redisclosure of the world without prior filters or distortions.

The ability to witness the Tao in the shape of a tree or a river or terrain is materiality.

Matter us just a denser state of spirit.

[sotonye]

Sotonye, if one defines spirituality exactly as you define it, then I agree with your conclusion.

But my agreement comes from the way you stacked the deck. Not everyone defines or experiences spirituality as you do. If someone defined it differently, then their definition would lead to a different conclusion.

Naturally everyone will have a different definition for everything, but of course that doesn't mean that there isn't such thing as a correct one, a sole descriptor. The aim of all spiritual systems of the world is more of less the same (as it says multiple times throughout the A.A. curriculum), dissolution of the will into the divine, which would bring one who wants a brief summation of them all to the definition given. And about experiences, well, if they are following any of the systems implied above, the experiences would be the same as mine, and if that weren't the case, a thing like scientific illuminsm couldn't exist; "the method of science" suggests a replicable thing, and most spiritual experiences are indeed replicable and not unique. Buddhism, Taoism, all of these systems outline confidently the experiences which follow from their practices since those experiences are reliable, these systems exist today after thousands of years since the experiences promised are consistent. But of course that isn't to say that there won't be some minor variations colored by preconceived notions, Mohammed saw the angel Gabriel, Abraham a pillar of fire, etc.

Personally, I think the planet of spirituality is one or more of the following: Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto.

Sure, but we would find if we looked that some are more inclined toward the object in question than others, which is why we see an unexpected number of popes with a luminary in Venus instead of a luminary-sign distribution that's completely random and without a trend. There are trends everywhere, all the time, and I'm not sure why there's pushback from the idea that one planet is more spiritual than another when we say similar things all of the time, for example that Mars is more martial than any other stellar body or that the nature of Uranus is one of spontaneity.

[sotonye]

Transformation of the nature of one's relationship to materiality is basic to much of spirituality. In fact, one of the highest initiated states of the Qabbalistic model is attributes to Saturn and one of its basic characteristics is the redisclosure of the world without prior filters or distortions.

Hm I didn't know that, association of Saturn with one of the highest qabbalistic states, that's interesting and unexpected.

The ability to witness the Tao in the shape of a tree or a river or terrain is materiality.

The incomprehensible hidden behind a veil of our own notions more like, not necessarily a material experience except that something strange might be going on in the brain (but neural correlates of consciousness aren't the same as consciousness itself as far as we know, so we end up right back to the immaterial, or at least its untrammeled possibility).

Matter us just a denser state of spirit.

States of matter, by being distinct, require distinctions

[Jim Eshelman]

And about experiences, well, if they are following any of the systems implied above, the experiences would be the same as mine

I couldn't disagree more! The record of history shows that this couldn't be farther from the truth. The individuality of experience is dramatically diverse. Reading such works as William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience makes this overwhelmingly obvious.

if that weren't the case, a thing like scientific illuminsm couldn't exist

I disagree entirely. Success isn't measured in the matching of one person's experience to another's. Reports of attainment are hugely diverse and yet each that has attained can pretty universally recognize the same in the dramatically diverse examples of other people's experience.

It is quite typical, for example, for those who attain the Qabbalistic stage of Tifereth to describe the result in one case as a fusion with a being of love, another calling it a vision of wisdom, another of power, etc. The experience is in relationship to the karma, dharma, and history of each.

And this doesn't even yet take into consideration that each subsequent stage for the same person then takes on a different character.

"the method of science" suggests a replicable thing

Yes, replicable results, but the results aren't measured in identity of experience. Eleven people can separately drive to the Grand Canyon and, in fact, arrive at the Grand Canyon, and come away with 11 separate (often starkly different) versions of what it was like. Another six can go spend a week on the same Caribbean island and return reporting in the one case that it was a place marked by the most awesome salsa music, another saying no it was a place of rain forests, another that it was foremost a place of spectacular beaches. They're all right and they were all at the same place, they are just constituted to give different reports. They differ from the six blind men and the elephant only in that each has a new ear for the reports of the others.

and most spiritual experiences are indeed replicable and not unique.

All spiritual experiences are necessarily unique because they are had by different people.

But of course that isn't to say that there won't be some minor variations colored by preconceived notions, Mohammed saw the angel Gabriel, Abraham a pillar of fire, etc.

See? These are dramatically different experiences, and they both differ from a raining of abundant pears or an unceasing sea or a cosmic ripping of the fabric of the universe or a lifting out of time and space to be at right angles to 4D or a suddenly seeing for the first time that there is no separation between oneself and anyone passed on the street or... a thousand other things.

Personally, I think the planet of spirituality is one or more of the following: Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto.

Sure, but we would find if we looked that some are more inclined toward the object in question than others

I don't think so. (I used to think so.) You may, of course, have your own view on the matter.

which is why we see an unexpected number of popes with a luminary in Venus instead of a luminary-sign distribution that's completely random and without a trend.

So you take being elected Pope as primarily a matter of spiritual attainment? It could be looked at so many other ways, most of them political; but, in any case, it is the chief officiant of only one specific religion, and that religion specifically defining its ideal in terms of love. Not all systems do.

There are trends everywhere, all the time, and I'm not sure why there's pushback from the idea that one planet is more spiritual than another when we say similar things all of the time, for example that Mars is more martial than any other stellar body or that the nature of Uranus is one of spontaneity.

And yet there are those who have only attained in the path of a warrior, or who experience their god as primarily a being of enormous power, etc.

My point that you missed is that the only full spiritual attainment is in the equal liberating and empowering of every aspect of oneself in perfect integration. Without that, there is a flaw, an unbalance, a derangement. Yes, at one point those who are too deeply attached to materiality need to detach from it and see themselves as they are, outside of relationship to it. Nonetheless, there is then another point when they must settle back into it, perhaps more deeply than ever, experiencing material aspects of the universe with new senses nd a new sensibility. The coagula is every bit as important to the operation as the solve.

It may be true to you that this is especially a Venus journey. For most people, the Venus quality is just one of several steps, or one of several parts, or not even a significant part of it at all. For others - and perhaps for you - it is the main descriptor of the road.

[Jim Eshelman]

Transformation of the nature of one's relationship to materiality is basic to much of spirituality. In fact, one of the highest initiated states of the Qabbalistic model is attributes to Saturn and one of its basic characteristics is the redisclosure of the world without prior filters or distortions.

Hm I didn't know that, association of Saturn with one of the highest qabbalistic states, that's interesting and unexpected.

From your prior studies I think you are familiar with the Tree of Life, yes? I was speaking of the state called Biynah, the highest of the planetary spheres.

Matter us just a denser state of spirit.

States of matter, by being distinct, require distinctions

Exactly! There is no difference between the seemingly undistinguished and the seemingly infinitely diversified except in perception and point of view.

[sotonye]

This was great, I'm going to think on all of this

[Soft Alpaca]

Venus is definitely a aesthetically oriented planet. I'm finding venus and its placement is a solid representation of what's comfortable for us in life. I've been studying the moon chart (27 Nakshtra) of late and venus is connected to my moons nakshatra through rulership. This is the front end of of Leo, which is said to be a place of comfort and beauty. The Nakshtra in what venus lies is where I'm comfortable and what I express in my spirituality.

All this possible nonsense aside I like how you define venus's connection to spirituality sonotype. True religion may only have connection to venus if your completely most comfortable with it, most I've meet are not.

[sotonye]

Venus is definitely a aesthetically oriented planet. I'm finding venus and its placement is a solid representation of what's comfortable for us in life. I've been studying the moon chart (27 Nakshtra) of late and venus is connected to my moons nakshatra through rulership. This is the front end of of Leo, which is said to be a place of comfort and beauty. The Nakshtra in what venus lies is where I'm comfortable and what I express in my spirituality.

Hey Scarlet, nice to meet you. What is a Nakshtra?

All this possible nonsense aside I like how you define venus's connection to spirituality sonotype. True religion may only have connection to venus if your completely most comfortable with it, most I've meet are not.

Thank you, and what you're saying is interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to be drawn to the planet of love

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Hey Scarlet, nice to meet you. What is a Nakshtra?

Nakshatra is the term for a lunar mansion in Vedic/Hindu/Indian astrology. A nakshatra is one of 27 or 28 sectors along the ecliptic. I have no idea which version Scarlet is referring to or what ayanamsa he is using. Lunar mansions are India's iteration of sun sign astrology, based on moon sign. It's not Sidereal astrology.
Jim posted something about them here that you can look over. He posted some interpretations from a famous Hindu astrologer for people to see if they applied, but as I remember, they didn't have much to add to what we already had, and some were just not on at all.

[sotonye]

Nakshatra is the term for a lunar mansion in Vedic/Hindu/Indian astrology. A nakshatra is one of 27 or 28 sectors along the ecliptic. I have no idea which version Scarlet is referring to or what ayanamsa he is using. Lunar mansions are India's iteration of sun sign astrology, based on moon sign. It's not Sidereal astrology.
Jim posted something about them here that you can look over. He posted some interpretations from a famous Hindu astrologer for people to see if they applied, but as I remember, they didn't have much to add to what we already had, and some were just not on at all.

Oh that's interesting, I didn't expect to find someone posting anything Vedic in here. A lunar mansion, now that's a peculiar phrase. But I will look over what Mr. E posted, thank you for the information and for the further reference

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Oh that's interesting, I didn't expect to find someone posting anything Vedic in here. A lunar mansion, now that's a peculiar phrase. But I will look over what Mr. E posted, thank you for the information and for the further reference

We tend to discourage it. It's mostly on a level with tropical stuff. Fagan (and Bradley) both published stuff examining Vedic stuff and enthusing about things they found interesting, but most of it has turned out to be not so much under further examination.
Hindu astrology isn't received wisdom from ancient Vedic sources. It was transmitted from the Greeks and Persians when Western India was invaded and conquered repeatedly starting with Alexander in 4 BC.

[Soft Alpaca]

Venus is definitely a aesthetically oriented planet. I'm finding venus and its placement is a solid representation of what's comfortable for us in life. I've been studying the moon chart (27 Nakshtra) of late and venus is connected to my moons nakshatra through rulership. This is the front end of of Leo, which is said to be a place of comfort and beauty. The Nakshtra in what venus lies is where I'm comfortable and what I express in my spirituality.

Hey Scarlet, nice to meet you. What is a Nakshtra?

All this possible nonsense aside I like how you define venus's connection to spirituality sonotype. True religion may only have connection to venus if your completely most comfortable with it, most I've meet are not.

Thank you, and what you're saying is interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to be drawn to the planet of love

Yes take Nakshatra lightly here, it far more complicated than just the Moon's Moon sign (look at sun, ascendant, moon sign and moon nakshatra ruler and still one may stick out more than another or it may not).

As of right now I am drawn to venus. Eventhough it's only connected to Mars [through scorpio and a hard aspect]. My Moons nakshatra is venus ruled if that has any importance.

I'd like to think Venus is a planet of spirituality because Mars is a planet of physicality. That is Mars is more of the flesh and Venus may represent something thats not materially tangible.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, your Moon is in a Venus nakshatra that runs 13°20' to 26°40' Leo, of which Venus-of-Venus is the tiny area that contains your Moon, 13°20'00" 15°33'20" Leo.

I reiterate my theme above that which planet is "most spiritual" depends on your definition of spirituality. There are at least ten varieties. I strongly suggest that reflection and discussion on this topic always start not with assuming the definition is fixed but, rather, with acknowledging that you're coming from your own definition. (Scarlet just did this indirectly.)

For example, Mars is not inherently more physical than Venus. For example, Mars is equally as psychological as Venus (all of its competitive, combative traits being non-physical as well as physical). Mars' physicality is rooted in muscle, blood, and penises and clitorises, but Venus' physicality is rooted in physical sensation, hormones, and vaginas.

Which isn't to say Venus is not spiritual - just that Mars is as spiritual as Venus.

[Soft Alpaca]

I understand Jim. I was thinking Venus represents the meta-physical while Mars represents the physical. I was over looking things clearly.