Mercury-Neptune

[TheScales_BothWays]

Originally posted by myself on Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:32 pm
All times of posting are in MYT/UTC+8.

What's up with this aspect? Most of the top scorers at my school seem to have this aspect in some way:

• LA—21/04/99—Mercury partile sextile Neptune
  BM—30/06/99—Mercury partile opposite Neptune (If I could recall his birth time which he told me years ago, he has it with only 1 minute separating it! Though I doubt my memory cuz he has Venus tightly angular which is so not him!)
  They two are the two best students in our school in terms of grades—really tough competition between them! At one time LA will be the 1st ranker, and at another time BM will be it, with a slightly higher tendency for BM.
  MR—26/05/99—Mercury partile trine Neptune (depends on when she was born)
  Two other students named KC & PD (born a day before MR) also have this but in a moderate orb, depending when they were born. They're not a top-scorers but are definitely better than me.
  DB—09/09/99—Mercury partile sesquisquare Neptune
  NR, TS, TK, KL—24–31/07/99—all have this moderately, but KL might have it partile. However she's not that much of a top-scorer (gets lower grades than me, but not the worst in my class), might have to take more looks into her chart.
  HH—03/10/99—Mercury moderately squares Neptune—not a top scorer, but definitely has the potential, and he's improving.
  RN—04/12/99—interestingly she has a Mercury-Neptune quintile but it's more than 1 degree. She scores well occasionally.

I have it as a 0°07' quintile—does that count? Well that depends, I'm not much of a top scorer actually.

(Sorry for the long [and rather messy] list though)


From Jim's interpretations in this forum he says that people with adapt readily to the systematized modes of thought found in mathematics and science and have a photographic memory, but that puzzles me. A typical interpretation for this aspect would be that the mind is easily clouded and wandered off, and a liking to drama, art, occult, having a hard time learning maths, and stuff like that . I agree with many other parts of Jim's interpretation, though.

How does Neptune bless one's Mercury to adapt readily to the systematized modes of thought found in mathematics and science, instead of the reverse of it? (No offence to them and their adaptability)

P.S. My schoolmates are gonna be freaked out if they see their names here. They're gonna think that they are my guinea pigs or something.

Edit: Changed their names to initials for my mates' sake.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jupiter Sets At Dawn on Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:40 pm

From Jim's interpretations in this forum he says that people with adapt readily to the systematized modes of thought found in mathematics and science and have a photographic memory, but that puzzles me. A typical interpretation for this aspect would be that the mind is easily clouded and wandered off, and a liking to drama, art, occult, having a hard time learning maths, and stuff like that . I agree with many other parts of Jim's interpretation, though.

What do you observe about your friends with this aspect? Are their minds easily clouded, do they prefer drama and art and have a hard time with math? Jim's interpretations are based on what he's observed. What do you see in your friends?
In his interpretions, Jim included this:

Mercury-Neptune often magnifies trivialities out of all proportion and thus is often found in the charts of those described as perfectionists.

That would certainly fit most people I knew who were good in math when I was in school. Very detail oriented.

A photographic memory makes sense if you look at it as impressionable. The impression is retained. I see Neptune angular in people whose minds make quick leaps to conclusions, which they then can go back and justify with facts. Scientists often work very hard on a problem, then go off and do something else, and the answer "comes to them." The work prepares the mind, and then when the concentration is elsewhere, the answer just sort of shows up. Most people find answers come to them in the shower or while shaving, or go to sleep having thought about a problem and wake up with the answer. I think that's a very Neptunian thing.

P.S. My schoolmates are gonna be freaked out if they see their names here. They're gonna think that they are my guinea pigs or something.

You don't have to name your friends here. You could number them. We don't know them so it's not like we'd know the difference anyway. If your friends google themselves, they will find their names here. If it were my friends, I'd edit the post to just use initials or something.

[TheScales_BothWays]

TheScales_BothWays on Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:58 pm

P.S. My schoolmates are gonna be freaked out if they see their names here. They're gonna think that they are my guinea pigs or something.

You don't have to name your friends here. You could number them. We don't know them so it's not like we'd know the difference anyway. If your friends google themselves, they will find their names here. If it were my friends, I'd edit the post to just use initials or something.

You're right. I've changed their names to initials.

From Jim's interpretations in this forum he says that people with adapt readily to the systematized modes of thought found in mathematics and science and have a photographic memory, but that puzzles me. A typical interpretation for this aspect would be that the mind is easily clouded and wandered off, and a liking to drama, art, occult, having a hard time learning maths, and stuff like that . I agree with many other parts of Jim's interpretation, though.

What do you observe about your friends with this aspect? Are their minds easily clouded, do they prefer drama and art and have a hard time with math? Jim's interpretations are based on what he's observed. What do you see in your friends?
In his interpretions, Jim included this:

Mercury-Neptune often magnifies trivialities out of all proportion and thus is often found in the charts of those described as perfectionists.

That would certainly fit most people I knew who were good in math when I was in school. Very detail oriented.

Yes they all indeed love Math (and score reasonably well). Their most hated subject is Biology. For them bio has too much of facts to be memorised and they say that we have a boring biology teacher, making bio even boring.
I deny whatever opinions they have in that matter. For me, I love biology and detest math (I'm fine with plain Math, just the other much more complex math subject we have to take, which is Additional Mathematics, which includes functions, differentiation, integration and such) . And our biology teacher is the sweetest woman I've met! (Okay, I'm getting carried away )
I'm not sure whether they like art and drama but they definitely have an appreciation for it!

A photographic memory makes sense if you look at it as impressionable. The impression is retained. I see Neptune angular in people whose minds make quick leaps to conclusions, which they then can go back and justify with facts.

Okay, yes, the latter part is so me (Neptune angular here!) and both the former and latter applies to the ones I'm close enough to. However I'm not sure about the others as I'm not that close to them.

Scientists often work very hard on a problem, then go off and do something else, and the answer "comes to them." The work prepares the mind, and then when the concentration is elsewhere, the answer just sort of shows up. Most people find answers come to them in the shower or while shaving, or go to sleep having thought about a problem and wake up with the answer. I think that's a very Neptunian thing.

This applies really well to some of them! And occasionally to me.
ADD: Though what makes you think that this is a Neptunian trait?

UPDATE: Edited some parts.
Okay so does Mercury-Neptune carry some of Neptune angular traits (through the filter of Mercury, I guess?)

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jim Eshelman on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:23 am

Scientists often work very hard on a problem, then go off and do something else, and the answer "comes to them." The work prepares the mind, and then when the concentration is elsewhere, the answer just sort of shows up. Most people find answers come to them in the shower or while shaving, or go to sleep having thought about a problem and wake up with the answer. I think that's a very Neptunian thing.

This applies really well to some of them! And occasionally to me.
ADD: Though what makes you think that this is a Neptunian trait?

I think he's touching on the inspiration element and, more broadly, the way to engage right-hemisphere brain activity. It's a commonly recommended problem-solving tactic to take your mind off the problem (having first struggled with it and become saturated with all of its details), and go put your conscious attention on something else - to let subconsciousness resolve the problem in the background and give it to you as an "inspiration" (so-called). That would be consistent with Neptune's focus.

Okay so does Mercury-Neptune carry some of Neptune angular traits (through the filter of Mercury, I guess?)

Sure, Neptune + anything carries some parts of Neptune traits. That's what the combinations are all about.

I don't know if you've seen this yet - you might find my "three-column sheet" useful in assimilating some basic ideas. For each planet, it shows what traits get stronger as the planet gets stronger; what is affected when the planet is aspected; and what effect the planet has when it aspects another planet.
http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=428

[TheScales_BothWays]

TheScales_BothWays on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:34 am

ADD: Though what makes you think that this is a Neptunian trait?

I think he's touching on the inspiration element and, more broadly, the way to engage right-hemisphere brain activity. It's a commonly recommended problem-solving tactic to take your mind off the problem (having first struggled with it and become saturated with all of its details), and go put your conscious attention on something else - to let subconsciousness resolve the problem in the background and give it to you as an "inspiration" (so-called). That would be consistent with Neptune's focus.

Ah, now I see. The right brain.

Okay so does Mercury-Neptune carry some of Neptune angular traits (through the filter of Mercury, I guess?)

Sure, Neptune + anything carries some parts of Neptune traits. That's what the combinations are all about.

I don't know if you've seen this yet - you might find my "three-column sheet" useful in assimilating some basic ideas. For each planet, it shows what traits get stronger as the planet gets stronger; what is affected when the planet is aspected; and what effect the planet has when it aspects another planet.
http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=428

Damn, I downloaded this months ago (omg, time flies too fast!) and I've forgotten to even take a look at it. Shame on me.
Anyway, thank you for recommending your "three-column sheet"! It is indeed useful! Gonna print them out.

[Jim Eshelman]

Consider that a Neptunian view of reality is quite complex - in fact, the nature of paranoia (to pick one Neptunian extreme) is the mobilization of a seemingly inexhaustible stream of facts to support a selected point of view. Doesn't that sound Neptunian?

Now, consider what kind of mind it takes to mobilize and manage facts in that way, to organize the into a schema or scheme, and to support them. It takes a mind to which systems, complexity, acute memory, and gamesmanlike manipulation of the data are natural, automatic.

Or just think of how advanced math must seem like pure occultism to you!

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jupiter Sets At Dawn on Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:44 am

Scientists often work very hard on a problem, then go off and do something else, and the answer "comes to them." ... I think that's a very Neptunian thing.

ADD: Though what makes you think that this is a Neptunian trait?

I used to keep notes on my transiting aspects and what happened (much like I've suggested you do.) My notebooks are not here, and may have been lost, but I remember noticing this technique worked far better under Neptune aspects.

BTW, When Neptune was was dancing repeatedly with some of my moons (natal, solar return, progressed) it was common for me to pick up the phone and say "Hi X" before X said anything, and usually before the phone rang. That felt exactly the same way as it does when an answer 'comes' to you using that technique.

[TheScales_BothWays]

[Deleted so I can post at the bottom of the finished thread, and so I can better capture Jim's attention that I've replied to his post]

[TheScales_BothWays]

[Continuing the old thread]
TheScales_BothWays on Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:29 am

Scientists often work very hard on a problem, then go off and do something else, and the answer "comes to them." ... I think that's a very Neptunian thing.

ADD: Though what makes you think that this is a Neptunian trait?

I used to keep notes on my transiting aspects and what happened (much like I've suggested you do.) My notebooks are not here, and may have been lost, but I remember noticing this technique worked far better under Neptune aspects.

Hmm...I see...

BTW, When Neptune was was dancing repeatedly with some of my moons (natal, solar return, progressed) it was common for me to pick up the phone and say "Hi X" before X said anything, and usually before the phone rang. That felt exactly the same way as it does when an answer 'comes' to you using that technique.

Lol must've been creepy and impressive at the same time for the person on the other side of the line. But I get your feeling.
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So can I conclude that Neptune in a Mercury-Neptune an aspect/transit/progression/Neptune himself angular/whatever is likely to "do the right thing" and provide creative, right-brained and critical thinking (with additional help of the subconscious), instead of blurring the lines between the imaginations/perceptions and reality, as what I would think that would happen? This seems to be the case especially when Mercury is involved instead of any other personal planet. Jim in his Mercury-Neptune aspect interpretations has included a theoretical composition which might explain why is this so:

THEORETICAL COMPOSITION
Mercury adds intellect, calculation, perception, and voice to one’s imagination and fantasy, mode of reality fabrication, sensual indulgence, and response to temptation.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jim Eshelman on Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:35 am

So can I conclude that Neptune in a Mercury an aspect/transit/progression/Neptune himself angular/whatever is likely to "do the right thing" and provide creative, right-brained and critical thinking (with additional help of the subconscious), instead of blurring the lines between life and reality, as what I would think that would happen?

It's perfectly capable of doing both, and can make you pretty dopey.

Probably the singular most obvious trait to me in Mercury-Neptune hard aspects is that they fabricate problems that let them avoid their real problems and look impressive. That is, they avoid psychological issues and practical issues that really deserve their attention, and mask over this by bringing up {bs} problems that they manage to effectively convince others are real, major issues that they are brilliantly overcoming.

This is part of a broader pattern of fabricating highly complex structure - think of it as a complex video game with dozens of nested levels. Things that they are especially good at are things that call for fabricating, or at least operating inside of, highly intricate conceptual universes. On a more day to day level, remember that it takes a significant intellect and commitment to detail in order to effectively lie for years and never get caught. Thinking about that might give you some insight into the mental capacities Mercury-Neptune must have.

Jim in his Mercury-Neptune aspect interpretations has included a theoretical composition which might explain why is this so:

THEORETICAL COMPOSITION
Mercury adds intellect, calculation, perception, and voice to one’s imagination and fantasy, mode of reality fabrication, sensual indulgence, and response to temptation.

BTW, that's just the Three-Column Sheet applied to the aspect.

[TheScales_BothWays]

by TheScales_BothWays on Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:04 am

So can I conclude that Neptune in a Mercury an aspect/transit/progression/Neptune himself angular/whatever is likely to "do the right thing" and provide creative, right-brained and critical thinking (with additional help of the subconscious), instead of blurring the lines between life and reality, as what I would think that would happen?

It's perfectly capable of doing both, and can make you pretty dopey.

Okay the latter parts fits KL well and sometimes KC.

Probably the singular most obvious trait to me in Mercury-Neptune hard aspects is that they fabricate problems that let them avoid their real problems and look impressive. That is, they avoid psychological issues and practical issues that really deserve their attention, and mask over this by bringing up {bs} problems that they manage to effectively convince others are real, major issues that they are brilliantly overcoming.

This is part of a broader pattern of fabricating highly complex structure - think of it as a complex video game with dozens of nested levels. Things that they are especially good at are things that call for fabricating, or at least operating inside of, highly intricate conceptual universes. On a more day to day level, remember that it takes a significant intellect and commitment to detail in order to effectively lie for years and never get caught. Thinking about that might give you some insight into the mental capacities Mercury-Neptune must have.

Wow, you're so right in this! Why didn't I think about that?
Their dishonesty of the personal matters (especially of one of them) is the one I hate the most, he doesn't tell them even when I told my deepest secrets. I now don't talk personal matters with him.

Jim in his Mercury-Neptune aspect interpretations has included a theoretical composition which might explain why is this so:

THEORETICAL COMPOSITION
Mercury adds intellect, calculation, perception, and voice to one’s imagination and fantasy, mode of reality fabrication, sensual indulgence, and response to temptation.

BTW, that's just the Three-Column Sheet applied to the aspect.

Oh, lol.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jim, this is an old thread—I was moving this thread from the old forum. (Now I'm done.) But thank you for your valuable input!

Consider that a Neptunian view of reality is quite complex - in fact, the nature of paranoia (to pick one Neptunian extreme) is the mobilization of a seemingly inexhaustible stream of facts to support a selected point of view. Doesn't that sound Neptunian?

Yes. Very. I could relate as an angular Neptunian.
I even occasionally have bad days with minor headaches due to what you said: "mobilising seemingly inexhaustible streams of facts to support a selected point of view." It causes some terrible confusion. I tend to forget about the matter I'm confused about altogether and work on something else more pleasurable to relieve my headaches. Then I'll get into that matter later when I "feel" more "clarity" in my mind.

Now, consider what kind of mind it takes to mobilize and manage facts in that way, to organize them into a schema or scheme, and to support them. It takes a mind to which systems, complexity, acute memory, and gamesmanlike manipulation of the data are natural, automatic.

Ah, a Mercury-Neptune mind, of course!

Or just think of how advanced math must seem like pure occultism to you!

Oh yes. Occultism, advanced math is. So I suppose Mercury-Neptune is a blessing in some ways, esp by being able to process such streams of complex facts.