Background Planet Interpretations

[Lance]

Can anyone recommend a good interpretation resource for planets in the Background?

[SteveS]

Lance,
The best place I have seen is in Jim's book 'Interpreting Solar Returns.' The only other place that might be better would be in an original article in American Astrology Mag by Cyril Fagan, but this is only my best guess. Jim may have posted somewhere on this forum more good stuff about interpreting background planets.

[Jim Eshelman]

Can anyone recommend a good interpretation resource for planets in the Background?

Other than what I wrote for Solar Return planets in interpreting Solar Returns, I've been careful not to write these because it's too complicated.

There are a number of ways that planets can be one or another kind of 'strong" even if background, and a custom interpretation needs to be written for each - and then still might not be quite right.

For example, what if someone has a Scorpio Sun and Mars in the immediate background: You can't say "Mars stuff is weak" because, as a Scorpio, Mars-stuff primarily defines them. So you have a situation of the character primarily being imprinted on Mars ideas and acting from there, but the Mars energies themselves not readily expressed. This has several ways it can work out for a given psyche, life condition, etc.

If Moon is in Scorpio instead of Sun, and Mars is in the immediate background, the same principle applies but the details are different and there are still several life-situation variations.

Or, instead, what if there is a close hard aspect between Sun or Moon in Mars, and this falls in the background? In that case, you have a quite different situation: A powerful intrapsychic dynamic from the very powerful aspect, but denied outward expression or actualization. That one's easier to interpret; but it becomes more complicated if the orb is a little wider (the internal pressure isn't the same), and really different if the luminary has a soft aspect instead of a hard aspect, etc. Each of these is a different scenario that isn't all that hard to think through from principle on a case-by-case basis, but is devilishly hard to capture in a concise interpretation.

And then, in that small subset of people who have Mars background but neither luminary in Scorpio or aspecting Mars, you have further variations depending on the relative angularity of Venus.

Its different for foreground: With a foreground planet, more or less regardless of other considerations, its root needs and themes will be thematically dominant in the character and most driving of the psyche. Even if you have multiple foreground planets, and another one is more expressive, that doesn't contradict that the planet in question is also strongly expressed. You just have to find how they coexist.

But with background it's quite different. There is a gap, an absence, which is there... unless, of course, one of many other possible things in the charts says otherwise. At best, one could come up with interpretations and an instruction not to use them for the 68% of the population who have other conditions existing that were discussed above, and has to be weighted against two or three variations of Venus placement, and has to be customized to different life / upbringing conditions. It doesn't seem a good idea to write these.

There are generalizations, though. When a planet is the immediate background of a natal chart, is means not just that the planet is weak but that it is actively suppressed in its expression. Though it is likely true that the person is withholding this expression himself or herself, it most often feels as if one doesn't have the opportunity or is being stopped by others in its expression, e.g., background Mercury feels nobody is listening to it ever, background Venus that it is being cut off from love, background Mars that it doesn't have oportunities to express power, etc. Relocating to where the planet is on an angle completely removes this characteristic (except to the extent that habits of thinking and reacting have built into the chadracter: One then needs a little time to interact with life in the new context and build new character paths.) There is usually an overcompensating element much as there can be with a Saturn aspect, as a reaction to the sense of suppression or denial; others just accept the absence of that theme in their life and move on.

[Jim Eshelman]

I suspect you are most interested in your own chart (aren't we all <g>?). Your background planets are numerous: Moon (4°30'), Saturn (5°07'), Venus (7°10'), Pluto (7°18'), Jupiter (7°49'). These don't tend to boil down to common themes.

As a Libra, we expect strong Venus and Saturn themes in your nature, which are there; but this is complicated by the relative inexpressiveness of Venus and Saturn themselves in the chart. If I made any comments on any background planets, I'd probably skip Venus and Saturn since the character traits are going to be present by another route (but, if it were my chart, I'd reflect on what it meant that Venus and Saturn seemed to describe some of the most important things to me but seemed blocked in full expression).

Pluto and Jupiter are compounded by strong Moon aspects. We've talked about this before. At least part of what this means is that (due to lack of opportunity for expression) it's easy for this strong aspect structure to be pathologized and to take a negative health expression.

The one background position that, in an analysis of the chart, I might dwell on just a bit is background Moon.; and this I would probably only emphasize in the sense of Moon being very weak while Sun is very strong. If anything, it makes the polarity more acute, shows that you tend to strongly favor the solar side of the Sun-Moon polarity.

[Lance]

That was a avalanche of excellent information. Thank you.

[Lance]

GS
March 12, 2003
5:08 am
Beaumont, TX


Right now, I'm working with a chart that has Moon opp. Mars, 0°10', in the background. Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Gemini, and no other Mars factors.

Here's the Moon-Mars aspect interpretation:

Active & reactive, temperamental, thinks & acts rapidly. Detests idleness, rarely still. Driven, competent, ambitious. Impatient, acerbic, irritable. Too frank & sharp-tongued (hence friction in close relationships). Needs physical, emotional, & mental “room to breathe” (little domestic instinct). Substance abuse not uncommon. Sexual needs strong, almost irrepressible (the women are often real sexual firecrackers, notable for the speed and intensity of their climaxes).

The most obvious thing to speak of in terms of frustration of expression would be sexual needs, but I'm working with a 16 year old girl (at parents' request), and I'm not touching that subject with any length of pole. Instead, I'm trying to imagine how the other factors would be frustrated in their expression.

Would this simply mean that she feels inhibited in expressing aggressive emotions? That she probably feels like she doesn't have physical, emotional, & mental room to breathe? Would substance abuse be even more likely?

In my mind, I kind of have a picture of someone who may stuff her aggressive emotions down until they flare out in overcompensation. Might that be a relevant image?

Just trying to get the hang of imagining aspects as frustrated in expression.

Thanks.

[Jim Eshelman]

It's really hard to consider Mars "weak" (even as "inexpressive") at all when it's 10' from opposite a luminary! So, first thing is, there will be very strong needs and psychological pressures about expressing Mars, particularly the form that is Moon-Mars. This is so close that it may just overwhelm the background resistance and push out anyway.

This is particularly true because other things in the chart that are quite expressive give traits similar to Mars traits. (Similar though different.) Uranus is exactly angular - the claustrophobia and independence are there. Sun squares Saturn-Pluto, so there is a hardness. Other than the rising Venus-Neptune partile conjunction, there is nothing soft in the chart - it's all hard-edged, nearly brutal, clearly independent (but, alas, not always wanting to be so independent with that Venus-Neptune).

Back to Moon-Mars. The most likely ways, I think, the background will express are these: (1) Frustration at not being able to just act outward impulsively and do whatever the {bonk} (maybe literally!) she wants. (2) Background Moon showing less empathy, less capability of relating realistically AND empathically to others, consistent with the autonomy-demanding, independent, "go your own way on your own" spirit of the rest of the chart. (3) Turn inward on her health. At her age, this would probably be things like really painful (and perhaps unusually long) menstruation.

I don't think she feels comfortable with her body. I could be wrong about that - Venus opposite Jupiter closely often gives sensuality - but the chart is a little abstracted (double Air luminaries), a little hard-edged and armored (Saturn + Pluto, etc.), and this Moon-Mars probably means some version of stuff just hurts - pain, such as (just mentioned) really bad periods. Again, I could be wrong about that, but I knew a lot of teen-aged and early 20s women who had irregular periods with Moon aspect Pluto or Uranus, painful and excessively bloody ones if with Mars, difficult or sometimes blocked with Saturn, no big deal and unusually mild with Jupiter (and maybe with Venus, but that also can mean hyperactive hormones through adolescence).

[Lance]

I spoke with GS's mom about the Background Moon-Mars, telling her that there was potential for a strong psychological urge to express power, anger, aggression, and sexuality that might be repressed.

The mother resonated with that pretty quickly. She said that even when she was 5 years old, when she would get really angry, she would go stand beside the wall with her body all tense and just rub her feet together angrily. Now that she's older, when they have a family meeting and the daughter is angry, they can tell she is "just about to explode," but she won't express herself. The mom said that they've given her permission to scream and cuss if she'll just let it out, but she won't.

[Jim Eshelman]

This stuff is pretty cool, yeah?

[Lance]

I have to admit that I am consistently amazed and fascinated.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Jim, I am curious, if for example you hadn't moved to Los Angeles where you do have Venus angular, would there have been a way to make your Venus more expressive or is it really a fated position in the background in terms of Venus matters?

You mention that a background planet is actively suppressed in expression by the person him or herself when there are no other avenues of expression. Are there ways to change the thinking patterns and in your case in your birthtown would you be able to let Venus florish somehow? For so many people who are aware of it, moving is not an option because of circumstances.
I would imagine that this would be possible with the transits and Solar- and Lunar returns but apart from that, any suggestions?
Regards,
Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, I am curious, if for example you hadn't moved to Los Angeles where you do have Venus angular, would there have been a way to make your Venus more expressive or is it really a fated position in the background in terms of Venus matters?

I don't think anything would have made it expressive, certainly not at the level that happened. There would be a certain amount of it "opening up" just in the course of growing up, but I would have matured into a hugely different person than I did.

Even more because I'm a Virgo - innately inclined to be un-Venus.

You mention that a background planet is actively suppressed in expression by the person him or herself when there are no other avenues of expression. Are there ways to change the thinking patterns and in your case in your birthtown would you be able to let Venus florish somehow? For so many people who are aware of it, moving is not an option because of circumstances.

ne can always add awareness and maturity, and learn to make different choices, but that kind of change is as hard as telling a heroin addict, "Just don't do heroin!" I other words, it would almost always fail except with small incremental steps. It's not so much "fate" as the fact that we are different people in different places. The real solution IMHO is to pick the spot on Earth that you want and can get to.

Or let me put it differently: One could, perhaps, be awareness and effort and the right kind of information start acting contrary to their chart in this. However, at that point they would be a fake, acting at odds with how they naturally are. I think there is nothin that determines life health and mental health so much as living in accordance with your actual nature rather than at odds with your real nature.

[FlorencedeZ.]

I think there is nothin that determines life health and mental health so much as living in accordance with your actual nature rather than at odds with your real nature.

Thank you Jim for your informative reply and yes the above is so true.

I am asking this for my son. born: feb 14, 1992, 01.18AM, Amsterdam, Netherlands. Would you help and have a look in terms of his background Mars-Venus?
He is able to relocate and is considering moving abroad in the future.. Bringing his Venus to an angle also brings Mars and maybe that is not ideal, I am not sure. Is it then perhaps more fortunate to go and live in his case on a Jupiter line for example Denmark or Sweden?

[Jim Eshelman]

I am asking this for my son. born: feb 14, 1992, 01.18AM, Amsterdam, Netherlands. Would you help and have a look in terms of his background Mars-Venus?
He is able to relocate and is considering moving abroad in the future.. Bringing his Venus to an angle also brings Mars and maybe that is not ideal, I am not sure. Is it then perhaps more fortunate to go and live in his case on a Jupiter line for example Denmark or Sweden?

His Jupiter is a better bet, though he can probably get Venus up without the Mars. What he really should void is his Mars-Neptune conjunction.

First of all, his Venus isn't as bad as mine. It's background and under the earth, but it's not debilited (mine is in Scorpio) and not opposite Algol like mine. It's in an inexpressive zone but conjunct oon and moderately trine Jupiter. (It does have a 27' semi-square to Pluto, nearly as close as my square).

Sweden has Pluto rising through the whole country. Not a bad thing by itself, but not likely to (for example) draw him out and make him more social. And Pluto squares his MC through Denmark. Those places are fine in their own right - they avoid the worst features of his chart and give something new and life-changing - but they don't add the specific characteristics you asked about.

Does he have any interest in eastern Europe? He has Jupiter on MC at the longitude of St. Petersburg, meaning all places due north-south of there.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you Jim. This is so helpful. And explains a lot. I just like to make sure I do not advice him the wrong direction
He is open to exploring the possibilities and open to what I tell him. He liked New Zealand as he studied there for a short while but again he has Pluto there angular which he has here too. It's too far. Not sure about St.Petersburg, it is not hugely popular to relocate to from here in terms of living standards. I will defenitely discuss with him. He is otoh quite social but needs a lot of alone time or at best being by himself in his own room when others are home.
Regards,
Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, he doe have a Sagittarius Moon conjunct Venus and trine Jupiter

It need not be St. Petersburg. That's just the only large place exactly on his Jupiter line. There are other places due south of it that are on the same line and, of course, still close orbs about 150-200 miles east or west of that line.

Another thought is to look at parans for different latitudes. He has a Moon-Jupiter paran at about the latitude of Budapest (I only mean the latitude - it stretches around the globe and, in Europe, from the Loire Valley to the northern edge of the Black Sea). He also has a Venus-Jup8iter paran at the latitude of Bucharest (stretching from south of Bordeaux to the idle of the Black Sea). Regions from a little north of the first to a little south of the last, as long as they don't cross negative planet lines, should all be auspicious.

[FlorencedeZ.]

He has a Gemini Moon, I now see that I have made a typing error, I am so sorry. He is born on feb 15 1992, 01.18AM, Amsterdam, Netherlands.

[Jim Eshelman]

Ugh. And I made a typo so that all the above was accidentally done for February 1. Let me take another look.

Now I see why you said Venus and Mars are together - they're actually conjoined closely rather than a dozen degrees apart, and Mars is not exactly conjunct Neptune, and Moon-Venus are not conjoined trine Jupiter.

Back to the drawing board.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you so much Jim for your time and knowledge. Really appreciate it.

[Jim Eshelman]

For starters, this puts angular Jupiter much farther west, basically the longitude of Prague. That does make parts of Sweden advantageous. It also cuts through several other places such as Italy, near Napoli. Take a look at the whole line.

London is a terrible place - Pluto and Saturn both exactly angular, intersecting. Saturn also nicks the westernmost arm of France, then slides along the Spain-Portugal border. All spots to avoid. It also is in the westernmost edge of Sweden, kinda sorta not exactly the Sweden-Norway border, so eastern Sweden, especially southeastern, is better (Jupiter more than Saturn).

[FlorencedeZ.]

London is a terrible place - Pluto and Saturn both exactly angular, intersecting.

Yikes, exactly angular. Makes me shiver, a burden.

In his birth town Amsterdam he has Pluto angular. Saturn squares the Ascendant. (orb 3°00'.)In his case do you consider Saturn angular? Or is it weak and to be ignored with the wide 3°00'?

[Jim Eshelman]

It's VERY WEAKLY angular, right at the place where i stop paying attention.

[FlorencedeZ.]

That’s a relief. Being it so weakly angular might be giving the benefits of Saturn then
Would you bring the Mars Venus foreground or focus more or less on Jupiter angular?

[Jim Eshelman]

Would you bring the Mars Venus foreground or focus more or less on Jupiter angular?

The Jupiter is "cleaner" - malefics involved - so it's a better choice unless he is looking for an area for specific Venus-Mars purposes.

Also, from your original post, I interpreted (perhaps incorrectly) that you were limiting the range to Europe. There's nowhere in Europe where his Venus-Mars would come angular.

His Venus-Mars is on MC in eastern Australia, with Mars exactly through Sydney and Venus a bit more inland (Blue Mountains? maybe further? on south coast, Venus is about halfway between Melbourne and Sydney).

Most of their other places are obscure or (I'm guessing) less likely he'd be interested, such as rising along the Pakistani-Indian border (Mars on the India side, Venus on the Pakistan side).

The square MC in the American northwest, with Mars passing exactly through Vancouver (BC), near Seattle and Portland, near San Francisco, and Venus a bit off the coast (but in orb of those areas). They also square MC through Iran and part of Saudi Arabia, but perhaps those are less desirable?

They square Asc in the easternmost part of Brazil, this time with Venus inland (say, near Salvador) and Mars just off the coast. They also square Asc in eastern Australia, with Mars exactly through Brisbane, Venus exactly through Sydney, and both close in both places. Also, Tokyo and nearby areas.