Unfortunate Upcoming SSR

[sotonye]

My upcoming SSR is a really hard chart. To begin on the periphery however and go inward from least to most severe, I have Mercury conjunct the Midheaven within 1°, Moon conjunct the MC at 7°, and Uranus conjunct the MC at 8°25'. Venus conjoins the Moon at 3°18' mundanely and at 1°54' ecliptically. Transit Venus is conjunct natal Venus at 1°26', and Natal Uranus is ecliptically conjunct the descendant at 3°54', and while I don't actually know what these things mean, they seem positive! Moving on to what doesn't seem positive, Saturn closely squares transit Mercury ecliptically at 2°23 (but doesn't show up mundanely), and squares transit Venus at 2°58' mundanely but not really ecliptically (5°50'), and squares transit Moon at 3°55' ecliptically but not mundanely. Pluto is also in this mix with partile aspects to Moon, Mercury, and Venus, but I'm not too worried about him (since I have a strong natal Pluto I'm inclined to say I'm used to his separative tendencies). Last but not least transit Mars squares transit Neptune a bit over a degree mundanely and at 3°16' ecliptically, but Jupiter does come into the mix with a close opposition.

After writing this all out my feelings on the matter have changed a bit. Instead of seeming all bad it seems more like a mixed bag to me now. The only problems I have are that 1) im not really sure what will even happen this year, 2) I'm not sure whether to put more weight on mundane or ecliptic aspects, and three 3) I'm not sure how to interpret natal planets being angular in an SSR or aspecting a transiting planet, and I'm not sure how important those last two things are

[Arena]

Why do you see this one as unfortunate?
What specifically do you see as unfortunate about it?

Mercury conjunct Midheaven is a nice one. Venus conjunct the Moon is GREAT. Venus conjunct Venus is also GREAT. The Saturn square to those is not a bad thing, it just gives it a more serious tone. The Pluto aspect does not have to be bad either, it may give it a "transformative" tone - or it can mean you make changes concerning those Mercury and Venus matters that show up. Pluto was opposite my n. Venus when I got pregnant in 2008 and it was on my n. DSC when I got pregnant again in 2010. So Pluto can totally transform your life when in the picture, but it is not necessarily to the worse - I would say it is usually to the better.

[sotonye]

Why do you see this one as unfortunate?
What specifically do you see as unfortunate about it?

I see it as unfortunate because of the Saturn aspects. After having a transit by Saturn to my Venus and Mercury last month, I don't want anything to do with the planet anymore, every interaction with him is debilitating.

Mercury conjunct Midheaven is a nice one. Venus conjunct the Moon is GREAT. Venus conjunct Venus is also GREAT. The Saturn square to those is not a bad thing, it just gives it a more serious tone.

Saturn square my Venus and Mercury put me in the hospital last month so I'm cautious to say his square in an SSR to the same planets is innocuous. I think the symbolism for Saturn to Venus can be summed as "happiness taking a hit," and Saturn to Mercury as "cognition taking a hit."

The Pluto aspect does not have to be bad either, it may give it a "transformative" tone - or it can mean you make changes concerning those Mercury and Venus matters that show up. Pluto was opposite my n. Venus when I got pregnant in 2008 and it was on my n. DSC when I got pregnant again in 2010. So Pluto can totally transform your life when in the picture, but it is not necessarily to the worse - I would say it is usually to the better.

I've got a lot of Pluto natally, opposite my Mercury at 0°15' and conjunct my descendant at around 1°08', so I'm used to his operation and agree that the transformations incited can be positive, but they do tend to separate you from the world in some way. But I've never had a Pluto-Venus interaction to my knowledge so It actually sounds exciting given your experience here

[Jim Eshelman]

I see it as unfortunate because of the Saturn aspects. After having a transit by Saturn to my Venus and Mercury last month, I don't want anything to do with the planet anymore, every interaction with him is debilitating.

You (like the rest of us) will have a lot to do with Saturn on and off for the rest of your life. The wheel of life is a roulette wheel that sometimes stops on red, sometimes on black, and never actually stops at all... it just keeps cycling through different options.

But yeah, you had a rough month. I'll take a look at this. (If you want a comparison, look at my current SSR for Los Angeles, where I'm living under it, and contrast that to Milwaukee where it set up. I'm still alive Of course, the year's not over )

I've got a lot of Pluto natally, opposite my Mercury at 0°15' and conjunct my descendant at around 1°08', so I'm used to his operation and agree that the transformations incited can be positive, but they do tend to separate you from the world in some way. But I've never had a Pluto-Venus interaction to my knowledge so It actually sounds exciting given your experience here

I've historically called this aspect "elopement, divorce, or both." It's crude, but it gives the basic idea of the feel of it.

[Jim Eshelman]

Solar Return May 2, 2019, 11:43:47 AM PDT, Burbank, CA

t Mercury on MC +1°04'
t Saturn on WP 0°55'
t Uranus sq. Asc 1°16' (MC -8°26')
r Neptune sq. MC 1°01' (Dsc +8°04')
t Pluto sq. MC 1°44'
r Uranus on Dsc +3°14'
t Moon on MC +6°53'
-- t Mercury-Pluto sq. 0°13'
-- t Moon sq. r Neptune 1°11' in mundo
-- t Saturn-Pluto conj. 2°08' in mundo
-- t Mercury sq. r Uranus 2°10' in mundo
-- t Uranus s. r Uranus 2°17'
-- t Mercury-Saturn sq. 2°24'
-- t Pluto conj. r Neptune 2°44'
-- t Moon sq. r Uranus 3°39' in mundo
-- t Moon-Saturn sq. 3°56'
-- t Moon-Pluto sq. 4°11' in mundo
-- r Uranus-Neptune conj. 4°50' in mundo

Moon-Venus conj. 1°55'

t Mars sq. r Saturn 0°29'
t Venus-Pluto sq. 0°52' in mundo


It's not a great Solar Return, and there will be some rough times of the year; on the other hand, it's likely to be one of the most interesting years with a local of psy8chological and circumstantial changes and very active engagement of your mind in new things. Mercury is the single strongest planet (barely a degree off MC), square Pluto exactly, square natal Uranus closely (mundanely), and also square SSR Saturn. the Mercury-Saturn is likely to throw some road blocks at you - make you work harder for things, primarily, and suggests (given all the change and "up in the air" quality) that plans aren't as likely to work out the way you wanted them to on first try; but you are getting enormous opportunities to learn new things, explore new ideas and places, and rewire how your brain puts ideas together. (There's also a Mercury-Pluto tendency t put you in a place where you have to take an oath or commit yourself unequivocally; there are a lot of ways this can work out, but be careful to stay on the right side of the law, since you probably don't want it to be testifying under oath, which is one of the options. OTOH this "oath" thing is neutral - it's an especially common aspect for getting married, mostly for the same reason.)

There is a lot of change and conscious-shifting. Fr on e thing, you're going through several years with your natal Uranus-Neptune foreground, so that will be an ongoing phase. Pluto conjoins your Neptune, your Neptune (with Pluto) is quite close to square MC, transiting Uranus squares Asc, SSR Moon squares your Uranus-Neptune in mundo, so there is a LOT of this sort of thing going on along with your "rewire my brain" Mercury-Pluto.

Moon conjoins the non-foreground Venus enough that you'll have the basic effects of Moon-Venus. The only other Venus aspect that's important is the partile Venus-Pluto square in mundo. Since Venus isn't foreground, we normally don't consider it too much so I'm not as concerned about Venus-Saturn; but Venus-Pluto is partile, so it's a solid, important aspect.

Moon has a bunch of aspects. Besides the Venus conjunction, it has four other aspects: square your natal Uranus-Neptune in mundo (Neptune closer) and SSR Saturn and Pluto ecliptically. You can look up piece by piece, but, to try to put it together... its time for a LOT of inner psychological shifts and life-struggles will drive you toward these. If you resist the message and don't make the inner shifts, the outer circumstances will be harder, like you're being intentionally cornered and bullied by the universe. The key, then, is to walk into each experience choosing exactly what's in front of you - don't confuse wanting a different future with wanting a different present. Desire the future you want AND entirely accept the present at every step, otherwise you won't have the insight to take hold of your actual circumstances.

Saturn-Pluto is one of the two hardest things in the chart. The other is the partile Mars square to natal Saturn, which you have all year no matter where the SSR sets up. You'll have to work hard for things this year, but you are likely cornering yourself with difficulties to force yourself to make very significant inner shifts - basically, treating yourself like a zit that you're trying to squeeze and pop. The sooner you pop, embracing your actual circumstances and moving forward within them, the sooner it gets easier.

Two roughest times will be when Moon progresses to square Saturn and Pluto. These will each have about a two-month duration (a month coming and going) centered on August 20 for Moon-Saturn and November 9 for Moon-Pluto.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm not sure whether to put more weight on mundane or ecliptic aspects

They are indifferent. Whichever is stronger gives you the orb. For example (not that it's a big difference), your natal Uranus-Neptune conjunction is a few minutes closer mundanely than ecliptically, so I listed the mundane orb.

I'm not sure how to interpret natal planets being angular in an SSR or aspecting a transiting planet

Look in the "Solar & Lunar Returns - Interpretations" sub-forum. Among other things, you'll find a thread on SSR aspects to natal and SSR planets, one on natal planets foreground, and one on transiting planets foreground. For transit-to-natal aspects, these are just the interpretations of transits in the Transits sub-forum.

[sotonye]

You (like the rest of us) will have a lot to do with Saturn on and off for the rest of your life. The wheel of life is a roulette wheel that sometimes stops on red, sometimes on black, and never actually stops at all... it just keeps cycling through different options.

I know Mr. E, it's just hard to remember that Saturnian experiences are natural for everyone when they happen, it's so easy to think they're the end of the world, and I think others handle the cycles of Saturn much better than I do. But it is a positive thing to know that these things are just cycles and that cycles do end

But yeah, you had a rough month. I'll take a look at this. (If you want a comparison, look at my current SSR for Los Angeles, where I'm living under it, and contrast that to Milwaukee where it set up. I'm still alive Of course, the year's not over )

I'm going to take a look at your SSR, I checked it out a few months ago and if I remember correctly Saturn is conjunct the ascendant? Are you going to be alright?

I've historically called this aspect "elopement, divorce, or both." It's crude, but it gives the basic idea of the feel of it.

Is this the case Natally as well?

[Jim Eshelman]

Natally is a little different. It activates the natal aspect's meaning. It so is high intensity relationship-sexual confrontation.

Yes, by all current indications I'm going to be fine. Thanks for asking. I have to wonder, though, if that would have been true if i hadn't locked in the chart in Milwaukee.

But just today I entered Saturn square my Sun. At all period passes i came to think of this as positive, but it took far more energy to make it so (aka work harder). My only current concern is I wonder if i have the same strength at 64 as i did, say, 7 years ago.

[sotonye]

Solar Return May 2, 2019, 11:43:47 AM PDT, Burbank, CA

t Mercury on MC +1°04'
t Saturn on WP 0°55'
t Uranus sq. Asc 1°16' (MC -8°26')
r Neptune sq. MC 1°01' (Dsc +8°04')
t Pluto sq. MC 1°44'
r Uranus on Dsc +3°14'
t Moon on MC +6°53'
-- t Mercury-Pluto sq. 0°13'
-- t Moon sq. r Neptune 1°11' in mundo
-- t Saturn-Pluto conj. 2°08' in mundo
-- t Mercury sq. r Uranus 2°10' in mundo
-- t Uranus s. r Uranus 2°17'
-- t Mercury-Saturn sq. 2°24'
-- t Pluto conj. r Neptune 2°44'
-- t Moon sq. r Uranus 3°39' in mundo
-- t Moon-Saturn sq. 3°56'
-- t Moon-Pluto sq. 4°11' in mundo
-- r Uranus-Neptune conj. 4°50' in mundo

Moon-Venus conj. 1°55'

t Mars sq. r Saturn 0°29'
t Venus-Pluto sq. 0°52' in mundo


It's not a great Solar Return, and there will be some rough times of the year; on the other hand, it's likely to be one of the most interesting years with a local of psy8chological and circumstantial changes and very active engagement of your mind in new things. Mercury is the single strongest planet (barely a degree off MC), square Pluto exactly, square natal Uranus closely (mundanely), and also square SSR Saturn. the Mercury-Saturn is likely to throw some road blocks at you - make you work harder for things, primarily, and suggests (given all the change and "up in the air" quality) that plans aren't as likely to work out the way you wanted them to on first try; but you are getting enormous opportunities to learn new things, explore new ideas and places, and rewire how your brain puts ideas together. (There's also a Mercury-Pluto tendency t put you in a place where you have to take an oath or commit yourself unequivocally; there are a lot of ways this can work out, but be careful to stay on the right side of the law, since you probably don't want it to be testifying under oath, which is one of the options. OTOH this "oath" thing is neutral - it's an especially common aspect for getting married, mostly for the same reason.)

This doesn't sound that bad, at the very least a year dominated by Mercury sounds interesting and maybe even productive. The square between Mercury and Pluto is a little alarming now that you put things in perspective (since I don't plan on getting married lol), but overall I feel prepared from Mercury-Pluto circumstances. I don't really think it works entirely this way, that having a natal aspect show up in a Solunar Return prepares you for it, but having it natally certainly doesn't hurt. The Mercury-Saturn roadblocks don't sound too bad either, I'm slowly coming to grips with the reality that most of my plans for anything won't actually work, at least not as quickly or as smoothly as I would like. What's most concerning to me is if these roadblocks take the form of debilitated mental states like the ones I experienced last month. When Saturn transited my Mercury I experienced vertigo for the first time and couldn't really do much of anything.

There is a lot of change and conscious-shifting. Fr on e thing, you're going through several years with your natal Uranus-Neptune foreground, so that will be an ongoing phase. Pluto conjoins your Neptune, your Neptune (with Pluto) is quite close to square MC, transiting Uranus squares Asc, SSR Moon squares your Uranus-Neptune in mundo, so there is a LOT of this sort of thing going on along with your "rewire my brain" Mercury-Pluto.

This sounds wild, unstable, boundary shifting, I can't tell if I should be excited or worried about this

Moon conjoins the non-foreground Venus enough that you'll have the basic effects of Moon-Venus. The only other Venus aspect that's important is the partile Venus-Pluto square in mundo. Since Venus isn't foreground, we normally don't consider it too much so I'm not as concerned about Venus-Saturn; but Venus-Pluto is partile, so it's a solid, important aspect.

About the Venus-Saturn, isn't it still a concern since Saturn is conjunct the WP?

Moon has a bunch of aspects. Besides the Venus conjunction, it has four other aspects: square your natal Uranus-Neptune in mundo (Neptune closer) and SSR Saturn and Pluto ecliptically. You can look up piece by piece, but, to try to put it together... its time for a LOT of inner psychological shifts and life-struggles will drive you toward these.

Moon-Neptune again lol sigh. It might manifest differently since it's occurring between SSR and natal planets but this was debilitating in my SLR, but maybe SLRs are more reflective of health crises than SSRs? At any rate this sounds brutal but I probably will learn a lot

If you resist the message and don't make the inner shifts, the outer circumstances will be harder, like you're being intentionally cornered and bullied by the universe.
The key, then, is to walk into each experience choosing exactly what's in front of you - don't confuse wanting a different future with wanting a different present.

I think this should be the declaration of every astrologer, this is f-ing excellent, I always appreciate when you remind me of this

Saturn-Pluto is one of the two hardest things in the chart. The other is the partile Mars square to natal Saturn, which you have all year no matter where the SSR sets up. You'll have to work hard for things this year, but you are likely cornering yourself with difficulties to force yourself to make very significant inner shifts - basically, treating yourself like a zit that you're trying to squeeze and pop. The sooner you pop, embracing your actual circumstances and moving forward within them, the sooner it gets easier.

I didn't even know we consider aspects between outer planets, or at least not between planets as far out as Saturn and Pluto. This won't kill me will it? And I think I had that same configuration between natal Saturn and transit Mars in an SLR a few months ago, it was harsh to say the absolute least and I don't know if I'm ready to experience it for a year

The roughest times will be when Moon progresses to square Saturn and Pluto. These will each have about a two-month duration (a month coming and going) centered on August 20 for Moon-Saturn and November 9 for Moon-Pluto.

This is when the SSR Moon progresses? Also thank you for the insight Mr. E

[sotonye]

Yes, by all current indications I'm going to be fine. Thanks for asking. I have to wonder, though, if that would have been true if i hadn't locked in the chart in Milwaukee.

But just today I entered Saturn square my Sun. At all period passes i came to think of this as positive, but it took far more energy to make it so (aka work harder). My only current concern is I wonder if i have the same strength at 64 as i did, say, 7 years ago.

So SSRs really do play out wherever they first occur? Kind of like a birth chart in that way, wherever you go your natal framework is still operative. I'm glad you went to Milwaukee and that you'll be fine. But Mr. E, you've found Saturn acting on your Sun to be positive?? This is going to make me faint. But if you say it isn't too bad of course I trust this, and hopefully Saturn doesn't ask too much of you this time around

[Jim Eshelman]

But Mr. E, you've found Saturn acting on your Sun to be positive?? This is going to make me faint.

Yes. The world demands 20 times more from you than usual, drives you beyond what you have any concept you can do, holds your nose to the grindstone until you feel flesh being stripped away, constantly nagging with more and more demands with fewer and fewer resources and an increasing dread centered on having no idea how you can last until the end.

Then, as the alternative to dying and against what seem all odds, you just drop complexity and {bs} and handle it. All of it. All 20x your normal load. You grow more or less overnight and handle it.

Saturn transits to Sun are the solution for the life-principle: When you don't think you can handle your current problems, all you really need is a bigger problem. It then only takes about a minute to handle all the comparatively smaller things you were bellyaching about before.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

I'm in the middle of a Saturn sun transit, and I'm currently the number 1 performer on my technical support team, year to date. And I've done this In spite of having a nasty flu with a 104.8 fever. (I'm recovering well).

Saturn is great for practicality. The trick is behaving practically. I'm not doing much more than working and resting. And parenting. And wooing my co-worker/friend/crush. And lifting weights. And eating sensibly. And paying off debt and getting my finances in order. And writing some of my best poems.

[SteveS]

Sotonye asked:

How is an SSR progressed?

Sotonye, since we have been discussing winning Moon-Jupiter symbolism, here is a par-excellent example for wining Moon-Jupiter combo’s with the Presidential Election in 2004.
Link # 1 is George Bush 2004 SSR progressed to his 2005 Inauguration, Jan 20, 2005, 12:00 PM. Look at the MC & IC axis of this Solar Quotidian and you will see both Moon & Jupiter partile cnj his SSR Progressed angles. This is how we knew with very high % G. Bush would be elected for a 2nd term. Vegas odds for him winning the 2004 Prez election were 9-5, a little under 2-1 to win.

1: https://imgur.com/a/298i8V9

Also in link # 2 below-- note Bush’s Natal with his tight Moon-Jupiter conjunction.

2: https://imgur.com/a/IYYYVan

[sotonye]

Yes. The world demands 20 times more from you than usual, drives you beyond what you have any concept you can do, holds your nose to the grindstone until you feel flesh being stripped away, constantly nagging with more and more demands with fewer and fewer resources and an increasing dread centered on having no idea how you can last until the end.

This sounds like more than anyone can reasonably take, but without a bit of suffering I'm not sure anything in the world would happen. I'm trying to have a more balanced view here of Saturn, I know you see the necessity of the ringed giant and I'm trying to see it too. *sighs deeply*

Then, as the alternative to dying and against what seem all odds, you just drop complexity and {bs} and handle it. All of it. All 20x your normal load. You grow more or less overnight and handle it.

Saturn transits to Sun are the solution for the life-principle: When you don't think you can handle your current problems, all you really need is a bigger problem. It then only takes about a minute to handle all the comparatively smaller things you were bellyaching about before.

So Saturn is the impetus of strength and action, im so hesitant to accept this but I know it's true. I don't know why it makes me nervous hearing about it, but this is more right than anything and it reminds me a lot of what reading Kant or Hegel is like, after all of what seems like a bout of self flagellation with words, reading anything else seems like a cake walk. A huge soul crushing problem really would make everything else in our life seem manageable lol

[sotonye]

Sotonye, since we have been discussing winning Moon-Jupiter symbolism, here is a par-excellent example for wining Moon-Jupiter combo’s with the Presidential Election in 2004.
Link # 1 is George Bush 2004 SSR progressed to his 2005 Inauguration, Jan 20, 2005, 12:00 PM. Look at the MC & IC axis of this Solar Quotidian and you will see both Moon & Jupiter partile cnj his SSR Progressed angles. This is how we knew with very high % G. Bush would be elected for a 2nd term. Vegas odds for him winning the 2004 Prez election were 9-5, a little under 2-1 to win.

1: https://imgur.com/a/298i8V9

Also in link # 2 below-- note Bush’s Natal with his tight Moon-Jupiter conjunction.

2: https://imgur.com/a/IYYYVan

Hey Steve thank you for this, I'm going to plug this into solar fire so I can figure out how to do the same for other charts and events too! Also another great example again of Moon-Jupiter symbolism!