Solar Arc Directions

[Jim Eshelman]

Excellent example, Steve. And yes, those involvijg angles above are once in a lifetime, taking 90 years for a repeat, even though Mercury-Jupiter will occur at 45-year intervals.

How have you been? I hope your absence has been from enjoyable things and not health issues.

BTW did you see tue Firebrace letters i posted? It occurred to me that the way he wrangles wity different astrology problems would be right down your alley.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

How have you been? I hope your absence has been from enjoyable things and not health issues.

Thanks for asking Jim. For the past month I have been very busy painting all the inside of my sole rental property, and installing new carpet—at my age it takes me 3 times longer to do work I use to do. I had deadline to meet in order to accommodate a new rental who moved in last Friday. I can’t complain about my health considering certain problem areas. I am anxious for my new blood tests in July to see if my Kidney numbers have improved moving me out of a danger zone. So far, only going by certain improved symptoms, my experience with acupuncture/Chinese Herbs has vastly improved a-lot of my health problems—I am impressed, energy levels are good for this old man.

Jim wrote:

BTW did you see the Firebrace letters i posted?

Yes, and enjoyed reading very much-- read em twice and still want to go over them taking notes for follow-up posts. I would love to secure all issues of Spica for us to dissect, and for your personal files. Have you ever seen any Spica articles on Solar Arcs, or know if Firebrace was a proponent of Solar Arcs? The thought crossed my mind Firebrace may have partly used Solar Arcs to rectify the Boyd Chart? Do you know how he and Boyd got hooked-up for Boyd’s/Firebrace book on the Boyd Chart?

Jim wrote:

It occurred to me that the way he wrangles witty different astrology problems would be right down your alley.

Indeed Jim! I would love to get to know Firebrace’s work in detail--in a Virgo manner.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim wrote:

BTW did you see the Firebrace letters i posted?

Yes, and enjoyed reading very much-- read em twice and still want to go over them taking notes for follow-up posts. I would love to secure all issues of Spica for us to dissect, and for your personal files. Have you ever seen any Spica articles on Solar Arcs, or know if Firebrace was a proponent of Solar Arcs? The thought crossed my mind Firebrace may have partly used Solar Arcs to rectify the Boyd Chart? Do you know how he and Boyd got hooked-up for Boyd’s/Firebrace book on the Boyd Chart?

I haven't seen any of my copies of Spica in 40 years, other than the one I found in storage the other day with my research report on converse SLRs. The others probably didn't make it west with me in 1975. Karen Wilkerson and Joan Piszek bought Spica (rights and left-over issues) in '75. Joan is long dead and I haven't heard from Karen in decades so I don't know what happened to them, that avenue probably doesn't exist anymore.

Philip Graves seems to have a large collection in his archives. I don't know if these are for sale or otherwise available:
https://www.astrolearn.com/astrology-bi ... astrology/

I know that at least someone in Spica used Solar Arcs - Marr? probably Roy at least once? - and Roy wrote about them in his letters with optimism.

On Boyd - I think the connection was just that she wrote about the chart in Spica and it caught his attention. One can't understand Firebrace without remembering that he was foremost a soldier, and a high-ranking and important soldier and critical points in military history. He has already written a book, Wars in the Sidereal, about Sidereal ingresses and the British natal charts.

I didn't know there was a Boyd-Firebrace book. I only know of the one Boyd book on the U.S. chart. I have the original red, white, and blue edition in storage somewhere, and this is what's currently advertised:
https://www.amazon.com/True-Horoscope-U ... 01FEPYWM2/

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Philip Graves seems to have a large collection in his archives. I don't know if these are for sale or otherwise available:

Probably this would be my best chance for laying eyes on the Spica Issues. I will try to contact Philip.

Jim wrote:

I know that at least someone in Spica used Solar Arcs - Marr? probably Roy at least once? - and Roy wrote about them in his letters with optimism.

Interesting! The more I ponder the short astrological history of Solar Arcs, the more I am intrigued. I don’t believe Fagan or Bradley ever mentioned Solar Arcs?

Jim wrote:

I didn't know there was a Boyd-Firebrace book. I only know of the one Boyd book on the U.S. chart.

You are correct Jim. But Boyd writes in her Introduction to her book: “The True Horoscope of the United States:”

PART 11, being the combined efforts of Brigadier RC Firebrace, C.B.E. and myself, is devoted to a miscellaneous series of maps based on events or historical incidences…

It appears RC played a major role in rectifying the Boyd Chart for Helen.

[Jim Eshelman]

She probably was only referring to his testing it after the fact. I don't think there was ever a change in the time she used from when she sent her first article to Spica. (I could be wrong, but I think that's the way the history went. I'm going on about 50 years of memory.)

[SteveS]

Was Helen Boyd a converted Siderealist?

[Jim Eshelman]

Was Helen Boyd a converted Siderealist?

I don't recall her work appearing any way but Sidereal, going from memory.

[SteveS]

Noel Tyl, who has written a very definitive book on Solar Arc's writes from his book Solar Arcs:

This is very important about procedure and interpretation using the system of Solar Arcs. Since we are working with a generalization of one degree = one year, our orb for the Solar Arc is really one degree or one year, and we can divide that as six months for the arc’s application (very strong) to an aspect with the natal planet or point and six months for the arc’s separation (not as strong). We then will see, time and time and time again, that Secondary Progressed Moon can refine the specific time of arc completion and, above all, there will almost invariably be a major transit to trigger the suggestion of the Solar Arc.

[Arena]

Just as I was looking at the solar arcs in my son's chart I thought of the retrograde planets. The automatic solar arc movement in SF does not account for any retrograde motion of the planets within the solar arcs. Should we do so manually, or only stick with forward motion?

F.ex. in his chart Saturn is Rx at the time of birth and moves retro for almost two months after his birth ... or about 2°. Venus is also retro at his birth and moves about 8° backwards after his birth before going forward again. I myself also have three planets Rx at birth and wonder if I should count for that in solar arcs.

[Jim Eshelman]

Just as I was looking at the solar arcs in my son's chart I thought of the retrograde planets. The automatic solar arc movement in SF does not account for any retrograde motion of the planets within the solar arcs. Should we do so manually, or only stick with forward motion?

Solar arcs are directions, not progressions. Individual planet positions don't matter. Everything moves at the same rate, and Sun doesn't retrograde.

[Arena]

Yes I know the Sun and Moon don't, but was rather thinking about the other planets that do retrograde... but I guess the principle of directions means it is always forward.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes I know the Sun and Moon don't, but was rather thinking about the other planets that do retrograde... but I guess the principle of directions means it is always forward.

Yes. Or, technically, that all points of the chart whatsoever move at the same rate.

This could BTW be retrograde, since "the same rate" allows that it could be a negative rate. This is what you get, for example, when you do converse solar arcs.

Another way to say this is that the distance between any two directed planets should never change from their separation in the natal chart.

[SteveS]

In the last 6 months, I have been doing some serious research with Solar Arcs (SA) with my life and other close people in my life who have AA rated timed births. It is becoming obvious to me Solar Arcs are a very important astrological natural law which, at few times, are writing important scripts in our lives particularly with angular hits!

If you are a serious student of Astrology, there is no doubt in my mind a most important book on Solar Arcs is Noel Tyl’s book: Solar Arcs. It should be on the bookshelves of every serious student of Astrology, imo.
It is also becoming obvious to me Solar Arcs is a very modern astrological development. Noel Tyl did not publish his book on Solar Arcs until 2001. Hence, the main thrust of the modern development of Solar Arcs was post the ending era of Cyril Fagan (1971), the father of Sidereal Astrology. I am certain given enough time in their lives, Cyril Fagan and his colleagues would have certainly recognized the vast importance of Solar Arcs in the lives of individuals.

Certain Astrologers in Europe became aware of the potential importance of Solar Arcs before astrologers in the United States. Ebertin and his German cosmological schools (1930s) played a very important part in the development of Solar Arcs with their recognition each individual is born with their own different Directional rate of Solar Arching all the important factors in their Natal Chart. Depending on which Sign of the Zodiac we were born into dictates our individual Solar Arc Directional rate between 57-61 minutes of Arc. Nowadays, the Computer and most modern astrological programs automatically calculates our precise Solar Arc Directional Rates. More later...

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you Steve.
I was planning to order the book and will do so.
Regards,
Flo

[SteveS]

Flo wrote:

I was planning to order the book and will do so.

Great Flo, there are a couple issues in the book I wanted to ask another astrologer their opinions. And after you read Noel's book post your thoughts. Noel mentions in his book the Danish astrologer Irene Christensen. Are you familiar with any of Christensen's astrological work?

[FlorencedeZ.]

Hi Steve,
I don't know the Danish astrologer. Is she a Sidereal astrologer?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I just posted the following in another thread but realized it would be better here...

Arena wrote and asked:

BTW you seem to be using a totally different rate for the SA than I am. I am using SA in Long with SF - what are your settings? What is your rate for "chart angle progression" and "rate for primary directions"?

Arena, With SF I get the exact date for your SA MC 180 NATAL MARS on Mat 23 2008, confirmed with two different options for calculating with SF exacts dates for SA hits. What exact date do you get with your SA MC 180 NATAL MARS??? Maybe we should compare our SF methods/options for calculating exact SA dates?

There are two methods of calculating Solar Arc Directions in common use. One is called Classic and the other Modern by most people writing about them who bother to acknowledge there is more than one technique. I believe both are available in Solar Fire and other calculation programs. Supposedly the Classic has been around pretty much since the dawn of astrology, and the Modern since the 1930s. Can't tell you which technique is which. Don't have time to research it.
Generally "SA" is the commonly used abbreviation for Saturn. The common abbreviation for Solar Arc Directions is "SAD" and the two techniques are identified by "SAD-C" and "SAD-M".

Perhaps you guys might find the above information useful.

Florence see Irene Christensen Instituttet She has a book available in English titled "The Precise Astrological Prediction - A Presentation of Kundig's Method"

[Jim Eshelman]

JSAD, I can't find anything in SF (and am not aware of anything otherwise) about the two solar arc methods. Can you say more?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Nope. I tried to find something about Solar Arcs on the net since Steve is so excited about them, which is where I found out there are two techniques, one very old and one more modern, no explanations of which is what, and then a bunch of woo-woo crap and gave up and went to look for Llewellyn.

But since Steve and Arena appear to be using different techniques, I think there must be two techniques.
I found this on alabe which is Solar Fire's distributor. https://alabe.com/solararc.html "arc-openings" Blergh.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Another view: http://www.friendsofastrology.org/peter ... eter-gadek

[Jim Eshelman]

"arc-openings" Blergh.

"Arc-openings," as blerghy as they sound, are at least based on sound principles. They just look weird when described. A few weeks ago (maybe it was on this thread) I wrote about them without using that term.

I consider the following to be solidly established but (caveat) not everything in the following list are of equal strength or importance, and probably none of them is quite as important as things we rely on most like aspects. Anyway, here's the list of things I'm ready to vouch for:

* Midpoints are valid points in a chart, partaking of the nature of the two connected planets.
* Midpoints meaningfully aspect planets and other midpoints.
* Only the 45° series of aspects has been established as meaningful for midpoint aspects to planets or other midpoints (with the 0 - 90 - 180 being a notch stronger and more assertive than the 45 - 135). Orbs are small (I would say never more than 1°, with preference for closer).

Now, back to "arc-openings" ... These are just ways to see aspects of midpoints to midpoints AND (much stronger) to find times when multiple solar arcs are exact at the same time.

For example, on a 90° sort, I have the following planet-pair distances in my chart. (I've put the real distance in parentheses to compare to the 90° sort version.)

Moon-Venus 64°29' (244°29')
Moon-Pluto 64°42' (154°42')
Sun-Moon 64°56' (154°56)
Mercury-Sun 65°07' (335°07')

The really useful thing this tells us is that when my solar arc is about 64° (which is roughly at age 64), I will have all at the same time four solar arc directions:
d Moon to r Venus
d Moon to r Pluto
d Sun to r Moon
d Mercury to r Sun

That's not controversial. "Equal openings" are useful for finding, at a glance, when multiple directions mature all at once.

The more subtle part is that have Moon-Venus, Moon-Pluto, Sun-Moon, and Mercury-Sun all have the same elongation is that I have several natal midpoints aspecting each other. Some people consider these active in a natal chart all the time, others consider them coming alive when something like a solar arc direction sets them off (in fact, that's probably the most used predictive tool of Cosmobiologists).

Having Moon-Venus, Moon-Pluto, Sun-Moon, and Mercury-Sun elongations the same means that there is a simultaneous activation of the following natal midpoint structures:

Mo = Su/Ve = Su/Pl
Su = Mo/Me

So these four directions would be interpreted not only as Moon-Venus, Moon-Pluto, Sun-Moon, and Mercury-Sun, but as activating Mo = Su/Ve = Su/Pl and Su = Mo/Me.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Thanks for the explanation. Do you know which method of solar arcs this is? Classic or Modern?
I wonder if the difference is calculating from actual solar motion vs using the Naibod (mean solar motion.)

When I said "arc-openings" Blergh, I was saying "jargon" Blergh. Can't we try to use plain language instead of (trying to) make astrology more esoteric and difficult?

I found Llewellyn. He just mentions Directions in the dictionary. No help there.

I give up. I was trying to help Steve and Arena sort out why their calculations are not coming out the same, and trying to get people to stop using "SA" to mean something other than "Saturn" when we already have perfectly good abbreviations for Solar Arcs.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks for the explanation. Do you know which method of solar arcs this is? Classic or Modern?

No. I'm not convinced there is more than one, but willing to be shown. There are different levels of carefulness on the rate, according to the article you posted (rounding to a degree rounding to Naibod - useful when you're working old school from a table in a book - or using the actual solar arc).

When I said "arc-openings" Blergh, I was saying "jargon" Blergh. Can't we try to use plain language instead of (trying to) make astrology more esoteric and difficult?

I vote "yes."

I found Llewellyn. He just mentions Directions in the dictionary. No help there.

One of the things Firebrace suggested I take up as a research project - and I never did - was exploring the different proposed methods of direction. I know in my early Tropical days there were popular systems of moving everything 4°/year, everything 7°/year, etc. I'm not optimistic, but I did get reminded when I typed Roy's letters that he'd suggested this.

I give up. I was trying to help Steve and Arena sort out why their calculations are not coming out the same, and trying to get people to stop using "SA" to mean something other than "Saturn" when we already have perfectly good abbreviations for Solar Arcs.

Agreed on SA! - On the other, without having tracked closely, my two best guesses are (1) somebody is estimating 1° a year instead of calculating, or (2) there is confusion between solar arc directions themselves vs. using the solar arc rate for secondary progression of angles - that seemed to be implied in the last interchange. (The two give identical MCs but different Ascendants.)

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Agreed on SA! - On the other, without having tracked closely, my two best guesses are (1) somebody is estimating 1° a year instead of calculating, or (2) there is confusion between solar arc directions themselves vs. using the solar arc rate for secondary progression of angles - that seemed to be implied in the last interchange. (The two give identical MCs but different Ascendants.)

When I said

Do you know which method of solar arcs this is? Classic or Modern? I wonder if the difference is calculating from actual solar motion vs using the Naibod (mean solar motion.)

that's what I meant.
There's also two options, one using the motion of the MC to move everything else, and the other using the motion of the ASC to move everything else. I know Solar Fire offers both options.

I found it - you, the cosmobiologists and the Uranians are all using the "Classic" method. From alabe:
"These schools look at the arc openings between every pair of points, even when the openings aren’t any of the standard aspects. They concede that while aspects may have a stronger effect, any other kind of arc opening can also assume importance if it is repeated in the chart. "

About the other "modern" method: "Some astrologers treat them much like progressions, noting when solar-arc planets enter new houses or signs, and when they make aspects to natal planets.

When you use aspects from solar-arc-directed planets in this way, one peculiar thing happens. Around the age of 30 each of the solar-arc planets and other points in the chart makes an exact 30-degree aspect to its own position at birth."
This "modern" method is the one that has only been in use since around the 1930s.

So I think that sorts out everything I couldn't figure out except why Steve and Arena are getting different results.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Some people consider these active in a natal chart all the time, others consider them coming alive when something like a solar arc direction sets them off (in fact, that's probably the most used predictive tool of Cosmobiogists).

Exactly! The Cosmobiologists in Germany in order to define the ‘cosmic state’ of a Solar Arc hit to points in the Natal always used midpoint analysis for Solar Arc hits. For example: If they saw a Solar Arc aspect to r. MC, they would always look at the ‘cosmic state’ of the MC with midpoint analysis (direct & indirect) involved with the MC. They would also analyze the 'cosmic state' of the Solar Arc factor. For example: Arena is under a Solar Arc Neptune to her Natal MC. The German Cosmobiologists would carefully analyze the midpoint structures of both Arena's Natal Neptune and her Natal MC.

Jupe wrote:

was trying to help Steve and Arena sort out why their calculations are not coming out the same, and trying to get people to stop using "SA" to mean something other than "Saturn" when we already have perfectly good abbreviations for Solar Arcs.

Thanks Jupe. It doesn’t matter to me what abbreviation we use for Solar Arcs on this forum. The main reason I am using SA for Solar Arcs is Arena tells me she is using SF to calculate Solar Arcs, and I know Jim uses SF.

Jim wrote:

On the other, without having tracked closely, my two best guesses are (1) somebody is estimating 1° a year instead of calculating, or (2) there is confusion between solar arc directions themselves vs. using the solar arc rate for secondary progression of angles - that seemed to be implied in the last interchange. (The two give identical MCs but different Ascendants.)

I could be wrong, but I think in the ‘Dynamic’ mode of SF using ‘Directions to Radix’ box, all Solar Arcs are automatically calculated with the program using one’s on individual Solar Arc rate. There is only one person on this forum who could maybe prove this, and that is Jim.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I could be wrong, but I think in the ‘Dynamic’ mode of SF using ‘Directions to Radix’ box, all Solar Arcs are automatically calculated with the program using one’s on individual Solar Arc rate. There is only one person on this forum who could maybe prove this, and that is Jim.

I'm not going to quote the whole Solar Fire Manual here, but it depends on what you chose. If you chose Solar Arc in the Dynamic dialog box, you chose the secondary progressed rate. But what that is is dependent on what you set in the Primary Direction Rate option of the Preferences menu.

I found this:

Bob Makransky’s “Primary Directions: A Primer of Calculation” served as our initial guide, and remains an indispensible reference regarding the mathematics involved. Martin Gansten’s “Primary Directions: Astrology’s Old Master Technique” is an excellent introduction to both the methods and the uses of primary directions, with a particular emphasis on the history of their use and how that contrasts with recent innovations. Rumen Kolev’s “Primary Directions I, II, and III” served as the final guide, with many useful examples and a fine description of the various Rate Keys. (When these sources were in dispute, we deferred to Gansten.

It's under Primary Directions in Solar Fire which is under Dynamic Time Based Operations.

[SteveS]

Thanks for the above post Jupe. When I use SF Dynamic option with Directing the Radix, the type of Directional rate used is always defaulted to Solar Arc, with option to switch to Secondary rates. Later I will check with the Janus program to see if their Solar Arc rates offer the same Dates as SF.

[Jim Eshelman]

You're correct on the last point.

[SteveS]

Solarfire calculates my Solar Arc Asc for Dec 23 2009, 1:59:32 PM CST at 29,50 Sag
Janus calculates my Solar Arc Asc for the same date & time at 29,50 Sag

Again, Noel Tyl wrote in 2001:

…your computer and astrological program goes directly into a Solar Arc program and calculates each individual’s Solar Arc…

We each have an individual Solar Arc rate depending on the Sign (time of year) we born into. This individual Solar Arc rate falls between 57-61 minutes of arc per day.

[SteveS]

Arena wrote from another thread:

What I remember from that book is that his research shows that the orb is 2° or 2,5° on both sides.

I can definitely relate to this 2-3 year time orb when my Solar Arc Mars cnj Natal MC, exact Sept 29 1984. This Martian cycle lasted till Oct 31, 1987 when it finally ended. IMO, when we see 0,90,180 Solar Arc hits with our Natal angles to or from other Natal Planets, we should do a careful analysis of other major astrological techniques with our charts to get a better feel for symbolic planetary meanings coloring the Solar Arc angular aspect with future timing manifestations.

For example: With my Solar Arc Mars exactly cnj Natal MC Sept 29 1984, I had a Sept 1984 SSR featuring as a main planetary theme--Mars. Mundo SSR Mars was 01,11 cnj SSR Dsc. SSR Moon secondary progressed partile cnj my Natal Mars 4-5 months after my 1984 birthday, timing exactly when the majority of stockholders decided to vote in a future July 1985 Stockholders meeting to take over the Company from the President in a hostile manner. Then t. Saturn partile cnj my Natal Asc on the Stockholder’s meeting July 8 1985, timing exactly the day when the majority of the stockholders voted formally to fire the President and Vice President of the Company under very depressed conditions, electing me as the Managing Director of the Company beginning a 2 year legal WAR.

IMO, astrologers should place Solar Arc 0,90,180 aspects at the top of their priority list for timing very important life-developments, defined further by future major individual astrological cycles!

[Arena]

Thanks for sharing Steve. You mention a 3 year period for the solar arc Mars, from exact hit until 3 years later... but what about the 2 years period when Mars was applying, coming into the MC? What I am finding with the solar arcs is that the period may be about 4-5 years (4-5 degrees in total, or 2-2,5 on both sides of exact hit). I am also seeing that the period for the luminaries is even longer than this, 6-8 years.

[SteveS]

Arena wrote:

Thanks for sharing Steve. You mention a 3 year period for the solar arc Mars, from exact hit until 3 years later... but what about the 2 years period when Mars was applying, coming into the MC? What I am finding with the solar arcs is that the period may be about 4-5 years (4-5 degrees in total, or 2-2,5 on both sides of exact hit). I am also seeing that the period for the luminaries is even longer than this, 6-8 years.

Arena, you raise timing orb issues with Solar Arcs which for now I don't have a clear rule for myself, For now I am going to mainly use Jim’s teachings with Sidereal Astrology:

Partile aspects reign supreme

Probably, it is for each astrologer to decide themselves how much a time orb to allow for Solar Arcs. For now, when I am focused in on a particular Solar Arc with my Natal or friend, family, client, I will focus on a year before & after the exact 0,90,180 aspect for the brunt of beginning manifestations of the Solar Arc symbolism, particularly with Angular hits.

I do know this for sure: Not one ounce of Mars symbolism appear in my life before my Solar Arc Mars exactly cnj my Natal MC on Sept 29 1984. The very first time I recognized a brewing WAR approaching was when the former CPA of the Company called me and asked me if I would meet secretly with the majority of the Stockholders in the Spring of 1985, excluding the President & Vice President of the Company. I had left this Company 4 years earlier and moved to Florida. This meeting was timed in my life when my 1984 SSR Moon was partile cnj my Natal Mars. When I preciously worked with this Company on an executive level I was given 1% stock ownership, only because the stockholders had voted to include me on ALL future stockholder’s meetings. I started working for this Company on an executive level in 1971 and left this Company in 1980 for greener pastures, but still retaining 1% stock ownership.

This Stockholders War began on July 8th 1985 in a regular scheduled stockholders meeting with t. Saturn almost stationed but partile cnj on my Natal Ascendant. As I stated previously, it was the most depressing day of my entire life, because the President of the Company gave me my first job when I was 6 years old cleaning-up a Drive-Inn Theater’s parking lot on Sat & Sunday. The President of the Company was fired on July 8 1985 with my 1% stockholder vote abstained during the Stockholders vote to fire him. This President of a Company became a second Father to me and I became a Son to him during the many years I worked for the Company in part-time jobs as a kid growing-up, and as an executive when I came out of college. In 1984-1985, I had been studying astrology for app 7 years and was well aware of the Saturn transit on my n. Asc when the majority of stockholders in the secret meeting in the Spring of 1985 voted to fire the President with the regular scheduled stockholders meeting in July of 1985. So, you see the advanced warning I had in the Spring of 1985, seeing that t.Saturn was partile cnj my Natal Asc in July 1985 when the WAR began it was going to be a very depressing situation.

This raging WAR with lawyers between the Stockholders raged on until the Autumn of 1987, when the majority of stockholders voted to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy. I then found out as a 1% stockholder, I had equal rights as a stockholder to acquire purchase any holdings of the Company, as long as no other stockholder wanted to acquire the same holdings. All the stockholders were old and had already made their money from a Company which was formed in the 1950’s. I was still young and very interested in purchasing the assets of one of the Company’s Theaters which had been closed for years. The Bankrupt Judge ordered the Bankrupt Attorney representing the Company to write a formal letter to all stockholders asking them if anyone stockholder wanted to individually summit a bid for any of the Companies holdings. I was the only stockholder to summit a bid for the assets of the closed down theater, and on Oct 31 1987, became legal theater owner, my dream come true. I was able to purchase the assets for a mere 8,000 $, but with my years of knowledge in the Theater business I was able to bring this Theater operation back to a thriving economic life. During Oct 1987, I had a very important Solar Arc---Natal MC partile cnj my Natal Neptune. When I got into the study of Astrology and its planetary symbolism, it was very easy for me to identify Neptune as the main planetary influence in my life pertaining to my lifelong affiliation with the Theater Business. I absolutely had no clue I was going to become an independent Theater owner until Oct 1987!!! In fact I was so desperate when I discovered the majority of stockholders were going to vote bankruptcy in the Autumn of 1987, I consulted (late Sept 1987) a Psychic out of my desperation to ask what she saw in my future next. She quickly told me she saw this crises in my life as a big opportunity for me to purchase some of the company’s assets for a song. On the way back home to Springville from the Atlanta Psychic, I called the bankrupt attorney and asked him if I could stop by his office to discuss the possibility of me purchasing part of the company’s assets, and rest is history---I became an Independent Theater owner!

Arena, you see, My exact Natal Solar ARC MC cnj my Natal MC on Oct 17 1987 fired—off with me becoming a Theater owner, but I had no advance reckoning of the possibility I would become an Independent Theater owner until I visited the Atlanta Psychic with her sight into my future. Without a doubt, relative to the events in my life, my Natal Neptune had something to do with my SA MC CNJ MY NA NEP with the Psychic who was able of offer me clarity with my immediate future, which allowed me to pull-off the most important business deal which turned out to the main economic savior for my entire life! Clarity Is Power!!! IMO, the best way for us to have a chance for future Clarity is with a good Psychic---not necessarily--astrology! A good Psychic is very difficult to find---only depend on good word of mouth.

So you ask me what kind of time orbs, before and after, to allow for major angular Solar Arc hits? My answer based on my life. I really don’t know for sure. But with the two most important Solar Arcs in my entire life, the Solar Arc Mars cnj Natal MC, and the Solar Arc Natal MC cnj my Natal Neptune, I had no advance life warning before these two important angular hits, only clear planetary manifestations AFTER the exact hits. Remember, we are dealing with our primary natal angles which require a very accurate birth time, hence, the main reason I only want to analyze Solar Arc angular hits with AA birth times, and I still realize event with a AA birth time we could still be looking at small errors in the recorded time of birth. But, I do know this relative to my life and close people in my life, Solar Arcs involving out Natal Angles are of paramount importance!

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks for sharing Steve. You mention a 3 year period for the solar arc Mars, from exact hit until 3 years later... but what about the 2 years period when Mars was applying, coming into the MC? What I am finding with the solar arcs is that the period may be about 4-5 years (4-5 degrees in total, or 2-2,5 on both sides of exact hit). I am also seeing that the period for the luminaries is even longer than this, 6-8 years.

Arena, I just realized that you and I might be seeing some similar phenomena and framing them differently.

(It will be a slightly long setup to explain what I mean, before returning to that punch line.)

I'm accustomed to seeing life set us up for major aspects, returns, etc. I don't consider that setting us up as part of the aspect (return, whatever), but as the way that we and the universe collaborate to get us into the right time and place for an eventual aspect's formation. If we think of exact progressions, directions, or transits as representing "dots" on a sheet of paper, then (outside of the dots themselves) I see us collaborating with the universe to (usually unconsciously) "connect the dots," fill in whatever has to be filled in to get us to our rendezvous with an aspect.

Outside of astrology for a moment, Marion and I have long seen that the point of our getting together to start to actively explore a relationship was an inevitability. She and I can each track all sorts of decisions, events, wrapping up karma, taking steps that, as if on a coordinated project, converged on and set us up for the exact point and place where everything changed for us. (We'd known each other for years.) If it were written as a movie, it would be a story where separate characters are practically racing to get to exactly the same intersection at the same moment in time. We can each track at least two to three years of that "race to intersection."

In astrology, the first thing that made me aware of this sort of thing (back in the '70s) was in discovering what I call the "mop-up period" of a Solar Return. Roughly the last 20% of a Solar Return year (the time after the PSSR MC makes a complete circle and still has a further fourth of a circle to rotate) has two kinds of things dominant: (1) Wrapping up ("mopping up") any part of the SSR that hasn't fulfilled itself. (2) Setting us up for the incoming SSR two months or so later. (It's not a new SSR occurs and we start adapting to it and expressing it: Rather, we hit the ground running, the SSR working from the first day. Life takes what otherwise would be a discontinuity of one SSR to the next and turns it into a setup, a transition.)

The SSR is a clear example to me but I see transits, progressions, and directions doing the same kind of setup.

So... while I can see many events (most events, I suppose!) where the "setup" for an aspect is years in formation and, after the fact (or even during the process) seem part of one long, continuous approach and climax, I don't think of the setup as part of the aspect itself - but, rather, as life connecting the dots" to transition me from the last key aspect to the next one. I'm wondering if you are seeing roughly the same thing and thinking it part of the eventual aspect, and that our biggest difference on this matter is substantially a difference in how we label it.

[Jim Eshelman]

Steve, on July 8, 1985 (the most depressing and demoralizing day of your life), you had the following solar arc directions within a 1° orb:

d Mercury conj. r Asc 24' ap.
d Jupiter sq. r Venus 24' ap.
d Mars conj. r MC 46' sep.
d Saturn sq. r Uranus 43' ap.
d Neptune sq. r Saturn 41' ap.
-- d Neptune ssq. r Venus 55' sep.

We can see most of these individually. (I don't know what the Jupiter-Venus might mean in 1984-85.)

My main point, though, is that whenever I see a pile of concurrent solar arcs maturing, one of the most important things to notice is the natal midpoint structures that are being activated. You just have to look for one planet that appears in more than one of the aspects (in one case making the aspect, and in the other case receiving it).

Thus, Saturn to Uranus at the same time as Neptune to Saturn (each of which is individually meaningful) discloses your natal Saturn = Uranus/Neptune, a 0°01' direct midpoint - read Ebertin's interpretation of this and see every word on target (as you described the event).

Depression, instability, pessimism. - A painful loss, mourning, or bereavement.

If you want to take it further, on a 45° sort this is 0°01' from Pluto/Ascendant. Read Sa=Pl/Asc for an added interpretation of this axis. It's also only 20' from your Su/Ne midpoint. Altogether, we can say that the two concurrent solar arcs (Saturn to Uranus and Neptune to Saturn) activate the 0°01' Sa=Ur/Ne direct midpoint with all of these characteristics on the axis (45° sort):

24°03' Saturn
24°04' Ur/Ne
24°05' Pl/As
24°26' Su/Ne
24°58' Ju/Pl

[Arena]

Well, there may be in some parts difference in labelling things... but as I see it in my own chart I really see the effect of the aspect before and after in most cases. I see the effect of the planet in different ways during the whole 4-5 yr period as if the aspect is expressing that planet before and after and it is in my case 2-2,5 degrees in many cases and wider with luminaries... that is for sure. In my case though, there is a planetary mix, a cluster of the Sun, Mer and Mars and maybe it is good to also take an example of a solar arc planetary hit and explore when not in a cluster.

I find it interesting that Steve did not have any kind of Mars symbolism enter his life in any other way than the company war described above. Mars could have been symbolised in many other ways as well, f.ex. being a very busy time, perhaps doing lots of sports, having lots of sex etc... and then comes the war that stands out and we can see other planetary symbolism to support all that - but maybe it wasn't only that event and the aftermath that marked the Martian period. It simply stands out so much as it was so serious.

In my case with Mars symbolism I can see it expressing in different ways, in lots of sex, a surgery, relocating and a family breach (which is probably also symbolised by the Pluto transit) as well as totally tearing down and rebuilding our home. So that period lasted from 2007-2011, which fits with a 4 degree periodic expression. And btw we also brought two children into the world during that time as well and I was in a very important leadership position. Very very busy period. I don't see the first expressions as any kind of setting up for what then came. The sex craze, surgery and relocation was not necessary setup for the other things to happen. They are just all different expressions of the same planet. So I simply got all of Mars except for sports, not just one kind of experience.

Let's assume the birth time is approx right and Neptune is now on my MC ... I see that effect coming in some time ago and what stands out as a Neptune experience is the other dimension of alternative medicine that I got to know in October 2018 when t. Pluto was conjunct there and how that totally changed my perception on many things and put me into a period of enjoying music and think of life on a whole other level. But it was a very positive experience, the most enjoyable experience of my life. Before and after that I have been looking into reincarnation and near death experiences. With Neptune by himself and the Pluto the experience was much more enjoyable. The t. Saturn hit along with the t. Nodes to the d. Neptune is when we separated and is of course very descriptive of a separation and brought out the negative of both planets. Separative Pluto had entered 2.5 deg orb to the Node at the same time. I don't see the October trigger for Nep as a setup for the split that happened with the Saturn trigger. They are simply two different versions/expressions.

In Steve's case for the Nep-MC symbolism it is very different with Theatre and Psychic readings. But still very Neptunian, just a different side of Neptune.

I can say something similar about when d. Jupiter was nearing in on my n. MC... of course with Venus on the opposite side. So before it reached the MC I was simply having fun with a lot of friends and experiencing my first long term relationship ... and then just after turning 18 I moved abroad by myself... Jup on MC, Pluto squaring it. There wasn't much happening setting it up, other than just applying to go ... but life had already set me up for that because I knew that I wanted to go abroad ever since I was a little girl (Uranus sq MC).

So our solar arcs can be triggered in different ways with different planetary triggers in transit at the same time. We have to look at it in context. Perhaps me having the d. Nep on MC with a trigger from t. Pluto and t. Saturn as well as a trigger by relocated angularity of Nep-Pl is very different experience than someone who would have Nep on MC with Jup, Sun, or Venus. That experience would have another kind of Neptune theme.

But I am finding it fascinating to study.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Steve, on July 8, 1985 (the most depressing and demoralizing day of your life), you had the following solar arc directions within a 1° orb:
d Mercury conj. r Asc 24' ap.
d Jupiter sq. r Venus 24' ap.
d Mars conj. r MC 46' sep.
d Saturn sq. r Uranus 43' ap.
d Neptune sq. r Saturn 41' ap.
-- d Neptune ssq. r Venus 55' sep

.
Excellent observation Jim. Whenever we see a 0,90,180 Solar Arc mature to a partile aspect involving a natal angle we should always check for other possible groupings of partile aspects with the planet to planet Solar Arcs. When we see these groupings of planet Solar Arcs, it certainly helps the astrologer to know, realize & understand important chapters of their life are going to manifest, even if we don’t see an angular Solar Arc contact.

Jim wrote:

(I don't know what the Jupiter-Venus might mean in 1984-85.)

I think this out of context Solar Arc was involved with the grouping because of the $ package the stockholders offered me to help them with a very difficult Company situation. The majority of stockholders knew that I would not want to go against the President of the Company because of our long-term benefic business relationship since I was a kid. The majority of stockholders knew I was much more loyal to the President than them. I took their $ offer only on the contingency if the CPA who was elected as new President on a temporary basis proved to me there were gross miss-management by the President of the Company. When I left the Company, I had missed 4 years of stockholders meeting so I was in the blind about the actual goings-on with the President and the Company.

Jim wrote:

Thus, Saturn to Uranus at the same time as Neptune to Saturn (each of which is individually meaningful) discloses your natal Saturn = Uranus/Neptune, a 0°01' direct midpoint - read Ebertin's interpretation of this and see every word on target (as you described the event).
Sa=Ur/Ne wrote:
Depression, instability, pessimism. - A painful loss, mourning, or bereavement.

Bingo! As usual Jim, excellent observation! I literally became sick at my stomach with depression/pessimism with a view of the entire situation after the stockholder’s meeting in July of 1985. After the CPA examined the books and reported back to the stockholders the afternoon of July 8 1985 (excluding the fired President), I knew the Company was in deep financial trouble. Actually, these were the days when most all of the smaller independent Theater Companies across America were going out of business with the big money of the larger Theater companies building multiplexes across the USA. It was a business era coming to an end. The partile Saturn cnj transit to my natal Asc on July 8 1985 was definitely the trigger which excited all of these malefic Solar Arcs into immediate manifestation, which was the worst time period in my entire life.

When I look at this July 1985 time period in my life at my present age, it really awakens my mind to the astronomical/astrological fact the Solar Arc astrological symbolism in 1985 was destined to manifest for my life with the precise birth time & location of my being. I mean—God All Mighty, I was born living in a house next to a Drive-Inn Theater, thrust into the Theater Business with my Mother working concessions at this Theater. Without knowing certain environmental/economic conditions the native was born into, limits the astrologer somewhat realizing what the natal planets with it aspects mean within narrow limits. Neptune in my Natal obviously is mainly symbolizing the Theater Business, and I literally became addicted to this Business through the early age conditioning of my being. Truly—a deep mystery through my contemplating mind of a Sidereal Astrologer. Thanks for your thoughts and observations Jim.

Arena wrote:

But I am finding it fascinating to study.

Me too Arena! Solar Arcs are acting like a huge missing link discovery in my 35 years of studying astrology. It has only been in the last 6 months I started seriously studying Solar Arcs with the aid of the computer and SF allowing for the first time in my astrological life to quickly track all the angular Solar Arc hits in my life. When present in our lives, I am convinced angular 0,90,180 Solar Arc hits are timing major turning points in our lives. Thank you Arena for your input in this thread topic and sharing your painful angular Solar Arc hit. Our past-present malefic pain helps us to gain more knowledge and understanding with Solar Arcs.

[SteveS]

Here were my exact Solar Arcs 0,90,180 hits in the Autumn of 1987 when I experienced the happiest time in my life by full-filling my dream of becoming an independent Theater owner.

Solar Arc Asc 90 Natal Venus, Sept. 14 1987
Solar Arc Mercury 0 Natal Jupiter, Sept 19 1987
Solar Arc MC 0 Natal Neptune, Oct 15 1987

[SteveS]

Jim responded by writing:

Steve, this would fit better on the solar arc thread than here, so I'll make this as quick as I can to not derail. As long as there is this interest in Solar Arcs, I want to make sure you get used to thinking of them more fully, like a Cosmobiologist or Uranian. I haven't had an example quite like this in our discussions so far. If this is interesting, maybe you want to copy this to the other thread to continue the conversation.

These are three very tightly grouped solar arcs. You can see the grouping in Solar Fire's "Difference Listing" report (which lists how far apart each planet pair is):

39°20' Jupiter-Saturn
39°32' Ascendant-Venus
39°32' Mercury-Jupiter
39°37' Midheaven-Neptune

I've added the Jupiter-Saturn which was not too far away (two to three months earlier at the quick estimate 0°05'/month).

The natal elongation of Ascendant to Venus and Mercury to Jupiter are identical to the minute of arc, meaning the direction of Mercury to Jupiter and Ascendant to Venus would occur at exactly the same time! (Working only to the minute of arc, "exactly the same time" means plus or minus six days, or one-fifth of a month.) MC-Neptune was within a month after, the real estate and investment aspect of Jupiter to Saturn was a couple of months earlier, all were operative.

However, this is the situation where you see operating aspects of midpoints to midpoints in the natal chart coming alive. Here is the rule: Equal gaps always mean equal midpoints. "Equal gaps" means the planet pairs are the same distance apart, "equal midpoints" means their midpoints are the same. If planets A & B are the same distance apart as C & D then A/D = B/C.

What follows is easier to see on a 45° sort (since some of the aspects are squares: the sort needs to be half of the smallest aspect you are using). With the Asc-Venus and Mercury-Jupiter distances the same, we know (without having to calculate anything further) that natally you have Mercury/Venus = Jupiter/Asc. Looking in Solar Fire at your 45° "Midpoint Listing" report, we confirm:

28°48' Mercury/Venus
28°49' Jupiter/Asc

Do you agree that Me/Ve = Ju/As is a correct symbolism for your acquiring the theater? (It's not better than the solar arc aspects themselves, but adds detail IMHO.)

You can take all the other planet pairs of those four aspects coming to a head at about the same time and see other patterns, and check them against the midpoint report in SF. Here is how Jupiter-Saturn, Venus-Ascendant, Mercury-Jupiter, and Midheaven-Neptune work out: Using only aspects that can be confirmed on a 45° sort (since some of them fall into the 22.5° series and we should ignore them IMHO), there is one more natal midpoint aspect that comes out: Mercury/Neptune = Jupiter/Midheaven, confirmed thus:

33°04' Ju/MC
33°06' Me/Ne

Again, I think this is quite descriptive of the event.

[SteveS]

Jim, your above observations helps a-lot for me seeing what I need to see in SF for a complete Solar Arc picture of the greatest event to ever occur in my entire business life. And indeed, your added observations with my original post was very descriptive of this huge business event in my life. As far as I know I see no other triggers including techniques of Sidereal Astrology for timing this event to the Autumn of 1987, other than the above Solar Arcs. Thanks again for your added observations with SF.

[Jim Eshelman]

As far as I know I see no other triggers including techniques of Sidereal Astrology for timing this event to the Autumn of 1987, other than the above Solar Arcs.

Your October 25, 1987 SLR (I don't know where you were, so I used birthplace; I'm sure it was nearby) had transiting Pluto on MC, a little Venus and Mercury (including a close Mercury-Pluto square at MC), and your Mars setting. (Btw, that's a righteous Pluto to Mars transit, such as you have ecliptically now. This might put a different spin on it.)

The worst fit I find is progressed Moon squared natal Saturn almost to the day. But, for the exact day, SNQ MC conjoined Venus and was just past natal Jupiter. Additionally, as a once in a lifetime aspect peaking, progressed Venus was 0°08' from your natal Ascendant!

Your Solar Quotidian had transiting Jupiter the degree of Ascendant.

Those all seem pretty on target

[Arena]

It is so great to have further proof that Neptune can turn out in a very benefic way when helped by benefic energies.

Your solar arc MC to Neptune is quite different to the heavy energies I am going through - so always look at things in context. With benefics, Neptune can make great positive things happen. With malefics it can be a total disaster! ...But maybe, just maybe I will be able to use the force of Neptune for good for my next SSR which is much more benefic than the current one.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Those all seem pretty on target

I agree Jim, thanks for pointing these charts out.

Arena wrote:

Your solar arc MC to Neptune is quite different to the heavy energies I am going through - so always look at things in context.

Exactly Arena!
AFAIC, astrologically, everyone’s Natal factors operate differently according primarily to their natal midpoint structures. For example: My MC holds two very important benefic midpoints according to the definitions of Ebertin’s School of Cosmobiology: 1: Moon/Jupiter 90 MC (1,07); 2: Moon/Asc 90 MC (O,14). Also, according to European astrologers including the Cosmobiologist of the German Schools, my Natal Neptune sits on a very potent midpoint, the ASC/MC (1,09), which conflicts with Sidereal Astrology’s teachings. The teachings of Sidereal Astrology teach the ASC/MC is looked upon as a very weak point. But, Jim has pointed out to me, I may need to allow more potency to my Natal Neptune with Sidereal Astrology because it sits on a partile 90 to the Vertex. I do know this for sure: My Natal Neptune holds the greatest symbolic factor in my life for the Theater Business! Also, at this same time in my life when the most economically benefic manifestation occurred in my life, Solar Arc Asc 90 Natal Venus, which timed exactly when my wife and I became business partners subsequently leading to very benefic life-saving economic happenings.

Arena, very few astrologers in the world realize: Probably the most important predictive/forecasting tool ever invented occurred in the 1930’s when Reinhold Ebertin and his Cosmobiology School developed for the first time in written history: Individual Solar Arc rates for the individual depending on the month they were born during the year. IMO, if you ever need to penetrate further into your Natal Chart (your true soul), you would have to master Reinhold Ebertin’s book ‘Applied Cosmobiology.’ This is a book about natal midpoints and Solar Arching em along with all Natal Points. I never mastered applying the principles in this book, because I got too busy with living life trying to keep my head above the economic waters. IMO, what the German Schools of Cosmobiology were practicing was probably the most important predictive/forecasting tool ever in the history of modern Astrology with an AA rated timed chart. Actually, it has only been in the last six months I have turned my focused attention to Solar Arcs.

I will try to post more later about HOW the true Solar Arc rate was discovered in the 20th Century, and offer my opinions HOW/WHY it’s astrological importance never caught-on in mainstream astrology.

[SteveS]

I write with my study and understanding pertaining to history for certain astrological discoveries in the 20th Century:

Cyril Fagan with his historical research into Astrology, discovered the ancient original Sidereal Zodiac in the middle of the 20th Century which had been lost to most modern astrologers. It took another individual astrologer, Heinrich Kundig, to realize the true math for calculating the true Solar Arc rate for an individual. In 1955 Heinrich Kundig published his book, “Prognose” explaining how to calculate one’s individual Solar Arc rate, which became a momentous discovery for Reinhold Ebertin developing his German Cosmobiology School in the mid-20th Century, using Kundig’s discovery for implementing individual Solar Arc rate. The only book I know available which expounds upon Kundig’s Solar Arc rate for individuals is Irene Christensen’s book, ‘The Precise Astrological Prediction: A Presentation of Kundig’s Method (self-published, Copenhagen, 1974). Irene Christensen’s stated in the Introduction of her book:

To me, Kundig’s method meant a return to Astrology, in which I had started to lose confidence, due to the inexactitude of the existing methods of direction (Solar Arcs).

Reinhold Ebertin published a book, Directions: Co-Determinates of Fate in 1976 using Kundig’s Solar Arc rate for individuals. Also in 1972 Reinhold Ebertin published a book, Applied Cosmobiology, using Kundig’s same Solar Arc rate. I strongly encourage any astrologer who wants to build a stronger practice for their astrological style, to attempt an understanding of Ebertin’s book of Applied Cosmobiology. In today’s world of computers and astrological programs the astrologer seriously studying astrology has better tools for understanding how to manipulate an astrology program in order to better understand Ebertin’s book, Applied Cosmobiology. In Ebertin’s book, Directions, he states:

So many kinds of directions have been invented in the course of time that it would be superfluous to list them all here. Instead we will concern ourselves here with those directions which are most easily understandable and which can be substantiated.

As stated in the Bible itself in the book of Ezekiel: “I have appointed thee each day for a year.” Since the Sun travels about one degree of the zodiac in one day, we may say that:

one degree = one year of life.

And this above approximate Solar Arc directional rate has been adapted into most all astrological programs as calculating one’s exact individual Solar Arc rate, which was Kundig’s discovery for one’s individual Solar Arc rate. This individual Solar Arc rate and it’s importance was only seen by few astrologers in the mid-20th Century, and it’s importance is currently still being realized by astrologers today.

[SteveS]

More quotes from Irene Christensen book, The Precise Astrological Prediction, A Presentation of Kundig’s Method:

Heinrich Kundig’s method of the individual sun-key has thus meant an important step forward: there exists a correlation between the time of the year one is born, i.e. the sign and degree which the Sun occupies, and the annual rate of the progressive (Solar Arc) MC.

I want you bear in mind that Kundig’s sun-key theory of directions to MC and ASC is based on the fact that important and epoch-making events do not take place unless aspects are formed by the progressive (Solar Arc) MC or ASC to the planets, either of the birth chart or to planet positions of the Solar Arc year.

Heinrich Kundig allows for a sphere of action of 1 degree on either side of the exact (Solar Arc) degree. In time this means approx. 1 year on either side as far as MC directions are concerned.

As regards the ASC-directions, this degree on either side may have a somewhat varying effect, depending on the speed of the Ascendant in question (fast running: Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, slow moving: Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio).

A main aspect involving MC an ASC within its period of action can be released by other “minor” aspects, from secondary planets (secondary Moon) and/or transiting planet aspects.

Nothing important will happen unless there are special directions involving MC and ASC, says Kundig. “Which has been everything considered, most decisive events in your life.”

Aspects by directions to MC/IC tend to affect the native’s aim in life…

Directions to ASC/DEC tend to affect the native’s personal evolution, constitutions and his/her entire relation, between his/her Ego and the surrounding world.

I have proven to myself directions involving my natal MC & ASC have been the special contacts in my life.
The knowledge and employment of Kundig’s method has been one of the greatest experiences of my life, giving it lasting meaning.

[Jim Eshelman]

The history is a bit off. Using correct solar arc isn't an invention of the 1970s. At the very least, Witte was using and teaching it during and in the aftermath of World War I. It's a basic tool of his Hamburg or "Uranian Astrology" methods.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

The history is a bit off. Using correct solar arc isn't an invention of the 1970s. At the very least, Witte was using and teaching it during and in the aftermath of World War I. It's a basic tool of his "Uranian Astrology" methods.

Yes, true. But it is my understanding that Witte was not using one's individual Solar Arc (Kundig's Sun- Key), but Ebertin when he refined Witte's work into 'Cosmobiology' started using for Solar Arc Kundig's sun-key for individuals. I have never studied Witte's work, I am only going by Noel Tyl's book Solar Arcs for the history of the of the Sun-Key for individual Solar Arching, which I may misunderstand. All I know is Kundig's published writings on the "Sun-Key" came before Ebertin English publishing, but then we have the question was Ebertin's German publishing before Kundig's Swiss Publishing. So, who actually discovered the individual "Sun-Key" for Solar Arcing, Witte, Kundig, or some astrologer before em??? With your knowledge of astrological history, I will go with your choice.

[Jim Eshelman]

But it is my understanding that Witte was not using one's individual Solar Arc (Kundig's Sun- Key), but Ebertin when he refined Witte's work into 'Cosmobiology' started using for Solar Arc Kundig's sun-key for individuals.

I've seen early articles and earlier Ebertin books with Witte using the correct rate in the post-WW I era and Ebertin using it long before the '70s.

Ebertin's English translations began coming out just after 1970, but the books were much older, the German editions being in use for decades earlier. Combinaton of Stellar Influences dates from 1940 and was substantially rewritten in the years after WW II.

All I know is Kundig's published writings on the "Sun-Key" came before Ebertin English publishing, but then we have the question was Ebertin's German publishing before Kundig's Swiss Publishing. So, who actually discovered the individual "Sun-Key" for Solar Arcing, Witte, Kundig, or some astrologer before em??? With your knowledge of astrological history, I will go with your choice.

I don't know. I don't think it's all that modern, but it might be e20th Century and, in fact, might be Witte. I never was concerned about that so haven't accumulated the data. I know the English-speaking astrological world was comfortable using 1°/year as an estimate - nobody really wanted to do math and the main reason for using the method was to not have to do math for progressions or have a new ephemeris for transits, but just to read things at a glance off the natal chart. When people began publishing Naibod/year tables (early 20th Century? earlier?), it was considered something for "technical astrologers" - no reason for everyday astrologers not to keep using 1°/year.

Sepharial was using mean rate solar arcs (i.e., Naibod) if I recall correctly in his early 20th century writings. Most notably, he predicted the stock market with solar arcs of the opening of the NY and London stock exchanges.

But the Germans were using correct solar arc while the Brits and Americans were mostly ignoring them altogether.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

But the Germans were using correct solar arc while the Brits and Americans were mostly ignoring them altogether.

Yes! I tracked most all of Robert Hand's work with Ebertin's Cosmobiology School with Natal Midpoints synthesis, but Hand never put too much emphasis on Solar Arcs, if my memory is serving me. I did not become conscious of Solar Arcs until I went to an Astrological 5 DAY conference in Las Vegas 1988, with dozens of speakers. I remember going to one seminar where a Lady (forgot her name) demonstrated the use of Solar Arcs using dials and I was most impressed. This was the days before I got into computers and astrological programs, but never started seriously studying correct Solar Arc usage by the Germans until recently. I agree Jim. I think most Brits and Americans were ignoring the German innovations with correct Solar Arcs usage, too much math involved as you noted. I will take another look at Tyl's book Solar Arcs and focus more closely on what he says about the German usage of Solar Arcs. It really doesn't matter to me which astrologer in history first implemented individual solar arcs, only that we are now using correct math for individual solar arcs. I really appropriate you input with your thoughts pertaining to this thread. It helps me with new learning.

[SteveS]

Jim, I went back and reviewed parts of Noel Tyl book on Solar Arcs and found where he stated two German astrologers, Alfred Witte (1878-1941), and Reinhold Ebertin (1901-1988) ‘dramatically confirmed the efficacy of Solar Arcs as a streamlined and exacting prediction technique’. And then Noel states ‘Swiss astrologer Heinrich Kuendig born early in the 1900s through Danish astrologer Irene Christensen leadership and textbook, the Precise Astrological Prediction: A Presentation of Kuendig’s Method (1972) was the last gasp effort introducing individual Solar Arc rates being the only correct rates. So, I stand corrected that Kuendig was not the first astrologer to develop individual Solar Arc rates, and as you correctly stated Alfred Witte from what we know about astrological history was the first to develop individual Solar Arc rates. I am not 100% sure, but I think Robert Hand was the only well known American astrologer to introduce to a few other astrologers in the 70s to Reinhold Ebertin's work. I still have not heard from Phillip Graves about the possibility of obtaining Firebrace past issues of Spica, checking to see if Solar Arc techniques were introduced to Siderealists in Spica Issues.

[Jim Eshelman]

That would be valuable to us all if you could obtain those. If I get the chance, I'll approach Phillip separately.

I know in 1972 Firebrace suggested to me that Solar Arcs would be a worthwhile subject for me to take up as a research project.