Timothy Leary and Ram Dass (Richard Alpert)

[Arena]

I want to have these two individuals in a combined thread as they were very much connected with each other doing their psychedelic research and promotion. I want to explore their Neptune. I believe that is the key ingredient for the psychedelic interest.

Timothy Leary, October 22nd 1920 @10:45am, Springfield MA, USA. (Rodden Rating AA).
Planets within 10° from angles:
Mars 4,28° below EP.
Pluto 9,33° above WP.
Saturn 9,17°from MC in mundo.

His wife committed suicide on his birthday Oct 22nd 1955.
T. Pluto partile opp n. Moon.
D. Snode 2° from n. DSC.
D. IC 2° from n. Snode.
D. Pluto partile n. Nep.
D. Nep almost partile n. Saturn.
T. Nep 2° from d. Saturn.

He first tried psychedelics (psilocybin) in August 1960 which changed the course of his life. Agents of this kind of change would most likely be Neptune, Uranus and possibly Pluto.
T. Nep about partile conj n. Nnode and 3° from d. MC.
D. Nep almost 6° from n. MC.
T. Pluto within 5° sq n. ASC.
T. Uranus within 3° from d. Pluto.
D. Uranus trine n. Neptune.

I would most definitely assign the psychedelic experience to Neptune. The t. Neptune does show us that ... but I would consider a birth time a few minutes earlier in order for the t. Nep to be closer to d. MC and also for d. Neptune to be closer to n. MC and t. Pluto to be closer to squaring that ASC. You don't have to agree, but that is how I see it.

Ram Dass / Richard Alpert, April 6th 1931 @10:40am in Boston, MA, USA. (Rodden Rating B).
Planets within 10° from angles:
Pluto 0,15° below ASC.
Saturn 4,20° above DSC.
Sun&Uranus square the ASC.

He joined Leary in the Harvard psychedelic research in 1961.

Alpert and Leary co-founded the non-profit International Federation for Internal Freedom (IFIF) in 1962 in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in order to carry out studies in the religious use of psychedelic drugs, and were both on the board of directors. Leary and Alpert were formally dismissed from Harvard in 1963 (Wikipedia).

However, these life changing experiences are not revealed in Ram Dass' chart which makes me question the accuracy of the birth time.

[Jim Eshelman]

FWIW I knew Tim moderately well - saw him a few times, got invited to the house once, stuff like that. And I attended Rich's events a few of times in the 'early '80s but only actually met him once, was around when Tim showed up unannounced to surprise him and they fell into each other's arms. Two awesome souls. Not sure if that will put me in a place to contribute anything specific to this thread, but thought I'd mention it.

I always considered Tim's interest and work Uranian, not Neptunian. Neptune is more or less a "do nothing" in his chart, but that Aquarius Moon (conjunct Uranus to boot!) defined everything I ever knew about him that the Venus side didn't (but don't forget his close Jupiter-Asc square). Rich, of course, is a Pisces, but otherwise doesn't have much Neptune activity (moderate Moon-Neptune square - clearly he's the Neptunian one in contrast to Tim's Uranus).

For Tim, I'd say his only angular planet is the close Jupiter placement on Zenith (i.e., square Asc), and a whisper of Saturn almost 10° from meridian. Mars is 20° below Asc and almost 4° from EP (orbs to EP-WP axis don't stretch past 3° I'm sure, and they're really vivid within 2°.)

[Jim Eshelman]

However, these life changing experiences are not revealed in Ram Dass' chart which makes me question the accuracy of the birth time.

Pluto 0°15' from Ascendant certainly shows a life open to extraordinary circumstances and evolution, living much on the outskirts of civilization etc. aff a Sun-Uranus conjunction widely square Ascendant (and square the rising Pluto) and I don't think there's any shortage of symbolism of a fascinating life of progressive enlightenment.

Rich was raised in a conservative Jewish household in Boston, a highly conventional upbringing. He was very father-driven and much that he had to work through in his life dealt with working through his father issues. (I remember him saying that it;s no big deal to be holy in an ashram in the Himalayas. On the other hand, going back to live with your conservative father in Boston takes real spiritual work!) The dominance of Pluto (joined to close Sun-Uranus) in the wider context of (the more widely angular) Jupiter and Saturn makes a lot of sense to me in his basic life pattern, especially the Saturn-Pluto opposition across the horizon. He always seemed to be the one who needed the privacy, was hardly ascetic but was the more natural hermit (though with an enormous heart and needing to come back into human contact periodically), was more openly vulnerable. Tim was pretty much the complement, being by nature gregarious, social, wanting to be in the midst of people and intensely personal, but needing to moderate this out of self-protection and learn to be a little more wary. - Anyway, that Saturn-Pluto opposition across the horizon for Rich makes a lot of sense to me.

[Jim Eshelman]

I just noticed something I'd never noticed before in their charts: Their Midheavens are almost exactly opposite for the given birth times. Furthermore, Tim has the Virgo MC to Rich's Pisces.

[Arena]

Pluto 0°15' from Ascendant certainly shows a life open to extraordinary circumstances and evolution, living much on the outskirts of civilization etc. aff a Sun-Uranus conjunction widely square Ascendant (and square the rising Pluto) and I don't think there's any shortage of symbolism of a fascinating life of progressive enlightenment.

Yes we can certainly all see that this would be an individual that would stand out from the crowd. What I meant above was that solar arcs do not show us the transformational period his life went through around the age of 30 with this chart. They should be able to show us such a turn in life for both of them.
Also a RR B is not really reliable.

[Jim Eshelman]

There is a lot of astrological data where the only source is a biography. Sometimes these are off (and often contradicted by other biographies), but I think most of them are reliable.

In this case, it's an autobiography of someone deep into mysticism. The chances of it being accurate are pretty high, I think.

What date do you have for his first psychedelic experiments? (My Be Here Now is in storage.) Above, you've given the years he joined the program and was dismissed from Harvard.

ADDED: His SSR for age 30 has Uranus exactly setting. What an eye-opener! Pluto then transited square his Moon for the next two years. The one Solar Arc I see for that year is Mercury square his Neptune, which fits.

[Arena]

Perhaps it is the SSR that is the trigger in his case. Uranus sure does shake things up and can of course bring about life altering events. The Mercury-Neptune shows us what he did with his experience, studies, teaching and research.