Conception SLRs

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:03 am

My next IVF cycle is scheduled at the end of January, the week of the 20th to maybe the 27th (depending on my cycle this month).

It is the first step of two. They will fertilise the eggs and see how many embryos make it to day 5, then freeze them. I will go back two/three months later for implantation (In April as Steve kindly identified that it is a benefic month).

If this cycle goes horribly wrong like the last one, there will be nothing to freeze, as none of our embryos made it past day 4. So there will be no stage two.

I have looked at my Lunar retunr for Athens. I find it a bit confusing as the fertilised embryos will be left in Athens to grow (or not sigh) in the lab over the course of 5 days while I am actually back home in Southampton. So I was confused as to whether to calculate a SLR for Southampton because this is where my consciousness is, or one for Athens, where I leave my genetic material. I have opted for the latter in the end as this is where they will grow.

So my SLR (first image) is not indicative of conception, I don't think. Mars is angular and Saturn too involved with various aspects, including Pluto. Neptne is angular, which is not indicative of conception (unless it indicates mood swings from hormone injections) Not keen on this return at all

My husband's return (born in Southampton, England at 14.15 on 27 August 1972) on the other hand is more promising with Jupiter foreground. Given that we need IVF due to poor sperm quality, it gives me some hope that maybe this sample will be better than the last one.

I don't know to be honest as I am not keen on my SLR... nothing strikes me as particularly positive

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:10 am

In which city will you be for the actual occurrence of the lunar return?

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:33 am

Both of us will be in Southampton...

My husband's SLR doesn't look as good, he has no Jupiter foreground, whilst mine has lost angular Mars...

I have to say I find them hard to interpret as the symbolism isn't particularly positive or negative, although they tend to be on the negative side...

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:19 am

Your SLR has the angles and interpretation for where it sets up. It is then relocated when you go somewhere else, and Lunar Returns are much more adaptable and quickly shifting to relocation conditions than Solar Returns. You will be in England when the chart sets up AND when you get the news, so your Southampton SLR is the most important for the overall month AND for your state of mind when you get the report. In contrast, the Athens chart only shows conditions while you are in Athens - which, indeed, might be arduous (perhaps for travel conditions, perhaps for the medical procedure).

Your SLR is then primarily marked by
t Venus on IC 0°56'
t Mars on EP < 2°

Overall, this looks quite promising. The complication is that your natal Mars-Saturn conjunction is rising. Natal Mars is quite close, 0°50' above Asc, and Saturn is wider, 7°20'. I'm not worried about the Saturn because, first, it's wide and, second, it's your Saturn - any difficulty isn't from circumstances outside of you but from your own state of mind. You may be cantankerous and unpleasant, but that might be expected in an arduous undertaking with numerous inconveniences.

So we center on your Mars exactly angular. I don't know what this means by itself. We do have a 1°46' mundane square of transiting Venus (0°56' before IC) to natal Mars (0°50' after Ascendant). While sex isn't really a part of the specific thing you are going to Athens to do, this is a nice, sexy aspect and I suspect its more archetypal basic symbolism - a union of Venus and Mars - is more consistent with conception than not. In any case, the grumpies all come from you and the strongest symbol the world is bringing you is Venus.

Based on this, I think the chart is optimistic for your undertaking.

This is even more so because of your January 31 Demi-SLR with Jupiter rising (and natal Jupiter even closer!), Jupiter being opposite your Sun. Again, your natal Mars-Saturn is at MC - I'm not crazy what that portends for your state of mind - but, again, what the world is bringing you is strikingly positive and it seems you will feel rewarded and feel like celebrating.

There are some "hidden gotchas" in the chart - the barely foreground Saturn-Pluto conjunction is 0°00' and is opposite your Venus, which I don't like at all. Yet so much in this chart is genuinely uplifting and celebratory.

Here are the angularities and aspects for the Demi-SLR:

t Pluto on Asc -9°37'
t Saturn on Asc -9°37'
r Venus on Dsc -8°31'
r Sun on Dsc -4°45'
r Mars on MC -4°18'
t Jupiter on Asc -3°58'
r Jupiter on Asc -0°36'
r Saturn on MC +1°22'
r Neptune on Asc +5°54'
r Pluto on MC +8°02'

t Saturn-Pluto conj. 0°00' in mundo
t Jupiter sq. r Mars 0°20' in mundo
r Sun-Mars sq. 0°27' in mundo
t Jupiter op. r Sun 0°47' in mundo
t Pluto op. r Venus 1°06' in mundo
t Saturn op. r Venus 1°06' in mundo
r Jupiter-Saturn sq. 1°58' in mundo
r Neptune-Pluto sq. 2°08' in mundo
t Jupiter conj. r Jupiter 3°22' in mundo
r Mars-Jupiter sq. 3°42' in mundo
r Sun-Venus conj. 3°46' in mundo
r Sun-Jupiter op. 4°09' in mundo
r Venus-Mars sq. 4°13' in mundo
r Saturn-Neptune sq. 4°32' in mundo
t Jupiter op. r Venus 4°33' in mundo

Other partile
t Sun sq. r Saturn 0°35'

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:48 am

Jim thank you so much for providing clarity for this SLR.

I am also a little concerned by saturn-pluto. I am hoping that it only reflects the fact that it is a difficult conception, after heavy medication and surgery (and my fear that it will go wrong like last time) rather than reflecting the quality and quantity of eggs retrieved

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:31 am

Hi Freya. Finally, transiting Saturn is moving past the axis of your partile Moon-Venus 90, probably the most important aspect in your Natal. It was obvious to me this Saturn transit was the timing reason for your first unsuccessful conception attempt last spring. Although there are no guarantees, your % chances for a successful conception this time will be increased with the transiting Saturn clearing your Moon-Venus aspect. May timing be on your side this time.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:17 am

So I have just come back from Greece... it has been stressful as predicted. They retrieved 12 eggs on Jan 20th, only 6 were viable
5 fertilised now we are left with 3 embryos at the morula stage. They need to reach the blastocyst stage to be suitable for freezing and subsequent implantation. Doc said they will allow one more day to see if they turn into blastocysts. So tomorrow I will know whether this treatment has been successful or not. Don’t hold out much hope tbh....

Veronica · Post by **Veronica** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:46 am

You are such a brave woman. This must be be so hard, I cant even imagine. I hope that you are able to rest today and take loving care of yourself. You most certainly deserve it. My thoughts and prayers and hopes for abundant blessings are with you.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 am

Thank you Veronica, tomorrow we will see what is written in my life path in regards to this.... not sure if a chart set up for 1 pm in Athens Jan 20, the time of fertilisation, would reveal anything?

Veronica · Post by **Veronica** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:38 am

Ya know Freya,
The more I read and think about astrology the more I think that there are always a zillion charts going on at the same time so looking at one chart only can be like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes. Its there, Im sure, in one chart or another, what is the sign of the time, but until it has past its hard to know which.
I personally would rather have you relaxing and thinking great loving happy thoughts and destressing then scouring charts today.

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:47 am

We're all pulling for you. Let us know what you learn.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:10 pm

Jim wrote:

We're all pulling for you.

Indeed!

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:43 am

Best news ever. We have two expanded blastocysts grade AB that have been frozen today. Both my husband and I were in tears. Now the doctor has advised that the best time to implant them is next month, end of February (She has given me an endometrial scratch when I was under to help implantation which will wear off over time) but she is flexible if we cannot fly out there at that time.

I don’t want to go if the chart looks unfavourable... Steve pointed out April but if I go in April it would have to be at the end of the month (I have to go at a certain time of my cycle)
I don’t want to wait that long but at the same time I don’t want to rush it and go at a bad astrological time

Saturn seems foeground so not sure it's a good one... but Noon-pluto is partile which i elieve indicates conception? Uranus on the ascendant may very well indicate reproductive technology

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:20 pm

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:58 am

Freya wrote:

I don’t want to go if the chart looks unfavorable... Steve pointed out April but if I go in April it would have to be at the end of the month (I have to go at a certain time of my cycle)
I don’t want to wait that long but at the same time I don’t want to rush it and go at a bad astrological time

Freya, as I originally stated in earlier posts, I was very optimistic you would have with high % a successful completed IVF Pregnancy in your current solar year with your current SSR featuring a partile Moon-Jupiter 90, regardless the time the universe chooses for you to complete the IVF process—so choose the time the doctors think is best.

Freya wrote:

Now the doctor has advised that the best time to implant them is next month, end of February (She has given me an endometrial scratch when I was under to help implantation which will wear off over time) but she is flexible if we cannot fly out there at that time.

As Danica pointed out t. Jupiter at the end of Feb will be falling on your natal desire for motherhood aspect Moon-Venus 90 axis. Also, on Feb 25 t. Venus will partile 180 your Natal Moon and partile 90 your Natal Venus. The end of Feb is fine

.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:04 am

Thank you so much guys. It’s good to know that there isn’t anything in terms of malefics lurking in the background anymore

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:25 pm

By the looks of it, I will find out whether I am pregnant or not between 28 of Feb first two days of March....

FlorencedeZ. · Post by **FlorencedeZ.** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:11 am

I sooo hope and wish for you Freya.

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:23 am

Flo wrote:

I sooo hope and wish for you Freya.

Me too Freya.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:59 am

So my two embryos thawed very well and I just had a double transfer. My pregnancy test is on 29 February... I so hope it works this time

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:17 am

Thinking and hoping pregnancy success for you Freya. I feel very strongly you will experience a successful pregnancy because of that partile Moon-Jupiter in your current SSR with Uranus angular for lots of excitement

.

Veronica · Post by **Veronica** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:20 am

Thats great news!!!!
Nurture yourself to the max!!
Lotsa love coming your way!!

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:10 am

Oh, that's great. You will be in my thoughts!

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:06 am

Freya wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:59 am So my two embryos thawed very well and I just had a double transfer. My pregnancy test is on 29 February... I so hope it works this time

Excellent. So exciting.

FlorencedeZ. · Post by **FlorencedeZ.** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:47 am

How wonderful. Thinking about you.
Regards,
Flo

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:05 am

Boom pregnant!!!!!

Thanks to you guys too!! You helped me identify the right astrological time!!

Now I am hoping it sticks as my HCG levels are low for 4 weeks... next blood test on Tuesday to see if the pregnancy is viable

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:10 am

Yay!!! OMG this is great.

And it's also a great real life example of astrology changing someone's life and state of mind with targeted information. It's all in the timing.

PS. Can't the doctor inject HCG to help retention? I gave myself daily HCG injections for months when we used it for dieting.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:59 am

Yes exactly!!! I am having 3 hcg injections one today, one Sunday and another on Monday then test on Tuesday to see if conditions have improved. I am hoping not to miscarry.

Yes most definitely I believe this pregnancy has been a team effort and a big chunk comes from you and Steve!!!! Thank you guys so much for helping me identify when not to try again!!!

Avshalom Binyamin · Post by **Avshalom Binyamin** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:57 pm

Ohhh that's wonderful news!

I'm sooooo happy for you!

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:39 pm

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:29 am

Would a SLR reveal the possibility of miscarriage? If the levels don’t rise by Tuesday it’s not a viable pregnancy... doc said everything is too low and borderline to celebrate

Post by **Jim Eshelman** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:48 am

Freya wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:29 am Would a SLR reveal the possibility of miscarriage? If the levels don’t rise by Tuesday it’s not a viable pregnancy... doc said everything is too low and borderline to celebrate

If a miscarriage occurred, or course the SLR (or Demi) would show it. Shall we look at your current one?

Your February 13 SLR primarily shows your excitement connected with Venus matters, which is easiest to take as the good news. I suppose it could relate to a miscarriage in a purely physical way because its symbolism is consistent with giving birth - and, technically, a miscarriage is giving birth way too soon. But that's a bit of a stretch and I'd say that's not the most likely outcome of the SLR.

You had a Demi-SLR February 27, a couple of days ago. It certainly shows a lot of anxiety, even chemical modification of your moods - with Neptune on MC (1°47'). It does have Saturn and Pluto foreground, consistent with a possible miscarriage, but they aren't as close as Jupiter, which is 0°13'. While this, like every chart, has imperfections, it is hard for me to think you would miscarry with Jupiter this close to an angle. (Even if we think of it as an afflicted Jupiter, due to its close mundane square with Neptune, that shows the extreme optimism, the hopes and dreams. - And the Jupiter is within 2° of opposite your natal Venus on Ascendant.

In the worst,scenario, Jupiter-Neptune can mean "huge dreams that amount to nothing" However, I then have to ask what the charts shows about your emotional state, which I suspect would be rather devastated - at least severely let down - in the event of a miscarriage (yes?). Nothing in this chart, taken on balance, is consistent with emotional devastation, (Possibly some "let down," possibly "plans not going exactly as hoped for," but no emotional devastation. It's just too positive overall.)

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:13 am

Thank you so much for looking into my chart Jim, I dis get scared by Saturn’s prominence I must say.... yes I would be completely devastated if this didn’t work on many levels. I also could not afford to have another ivf cycle during this SSR, which would in a way defeat the pregnancy symbolism in it.
Your interpretation does give me hope.... I hope it represents a rocky start, disappointment that my hormone levels aren’t normal from the start, but then it works itself out... I hope this is how this symbolisms manifests. Thank you so much for looking into my chart Jim, I feel less worried somehow...

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:43 pm

The hcg levels are rising and my pregnancy has been confirmed!!
Still need to go for more bloods to monitor it this week but I finally got the confirmation from the doctor!!

Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:50 pm

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:04 pm

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:55 am

So my last hcg test today wasn’t great. It should have doubled instead it has only risen by 9 points. It doesn’t look good

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:39 am

Give it time. You're a late bloomer.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:42 am

The doc said to go back on Monday for another blood test. If the HCG doesn’t rise to the appropriate level, it is a non viable pregnancy, possibly a chemical pregnancy. I believe this SLR could point to that?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:58 am

I think the process is making you tense and that can cause problems with viability.
We told you what the SLR said. It hasn't changed.

You won't know anything one way or the other till Monday so stop thinking about it. IT gets easier as you go. Read a book. Read a LAW book. Go do the grocery shopping. Do something else. Let it go till Monday.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:11 am

I am trying to be positive however the doctor said that very likely this pregnancy is not viable, unless I am a rare case. I don’t see a miracle anywhere in the chart (unless I am wrong) to use astrology as my fuel for hope. I have to prepare myself to miscarry again

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:23 am

I am on the verge of a breakdown. I started having pain last night and I was rushed into hospital. They found no uterine pregnancy with the ultrasound but they saw a mass in the left ovary which could be an ectopic pregnancy. The doctor reiterated that this pregnancy is not going as it should. Basically they are going to wait until Monday and do the bloods again. If my HCG hasn’t risen appropriately they are going to induce a miscarriage because the pregnancy isn’t viable. If it’s ectopic they will operate and chances are I will lose an ovary. This is beyond anything bad that has ever happened to me. Unless a miracle happens I will miscarry again on Monday. I have sobbed my heart out as the doctors aren’t hopeful

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:28 am

Breakdown? Ectopic pregnancies are life threatening. I'm glad, if that's what's going on, they caught it. My mother nearly died and was in the ICU for over a week.

I'm sorry you're going through this. You will remain in my thoughts.

Veronica · Post by **Veronica** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:01 pm

I am grateful you have such a wonderful medical team that is on top of things.
Your in my heart and thoughts during this stressful time.

FlorencedeZ. · Post by **FlorencedeZ.** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:49 pm

Freya, you are in my thoughts. This is a rough time for you and gladly you are in good medical care.
Regards, Flo

SteveS · Post by **SteveS** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:24 am

I am so sorry Freya.

Arena · Post by **Arena** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:01 am

I don't know if it helps at all, but I want to tell you that I had an ectopic pregnancy in late 2007. I didn't know I was pregnant until I got to the hospital. It was extremely painful, extremely painful and I could hardly move at all. I went straight into surgery and they removed one of my ovaries. About 7 months later I got pregnant again and my son was born in March 2009 and then pregnant again in 2010 with my daughter.

My SSR in 2007 was set up in Rvk and it had the SSR Moon partile opposite my SSR Uranus and it was also almost partile 1,03° conjunct the Rvk EP (I did move to Ljubljana, Slovenia in Sept 2007). SSR Jupiter was 2,17° square the SSR ASC. The t. Jupiter did travel across the Rvk DSC and SSR IC when I got pregnant and it was also trine the SSR Moon. Neither the Moon nor Jup were afflicted (unless you take a yod in mundo in rel chart to Ljubljana into account), but Saturn was within 5° from SSR ASC in Rvk. When I relocated the SSR to Ljubljana I got Jupiter much closer to an angle or 3,24° on DSC and Mars came to the rel SSR ASC within 3°.

When I got pregnant with my daughter it was my 2009 SR and it had a very malefic symbolism with Mars and Saturn - BUT the SSR Moon was partile Rvk MC. For a pregnancy year always look at both the Moon (mother and conception) and Jupiter (expansion of yourself). In transit I got pregnant with my son when t. Jup was trine my n. Moon and with my daughter when t. Jup was sextile my n. Moon.

My oldest son was conceived during an SSR that had a Moon-Jup conjunction 1,01° in mundo, but 4 degrees apart in the ecliptic chart. I got pregnant 4 months into the SSR. T. Jup was square my n. Nodes.

Having one of your ovaries removed is not going to decrease your chances of having a child if your other one is healthy. Ovulation normally alternates between the two ovaries. When one is removed, the other ovary takes over the entire fertility function, popping out an egg each month and continuing to produce estrogen.

I do hope you don't have to go through the severe physical pain of an ectopic pregnancy and will not need surgery and I do hope the best for you in success having a baby.

Freya · Post by **Freya** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:51 am

I am beyond devastated. I have lost the pregnancy.

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:19 am

I'm so sorry.

Arena · Post by **Arena** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:26 am

So sorry to hear that Freya.