Stumbled upon this website, and have been fascinated ever since. Really enjoying the discussions and resources, which have been invaluable in providing constantly renewing insights. Many thanks to Jim and the forum members for creating this discussion-centric place, where it doesn't disintegrate into arguments or name calling.
As for me: in general, I feel ok with myself now, although 'now', I suspect, is highly dependent on the daily circumstances and prevailing situation. Additionally, I have swung between a genuine desire in wanting to engage with others, and wanting to be by myself (which isn't possible, given my current circumstances). The tension seems to mostly exteriorize itself as sudden bursts of anger and frustration, and/or a series of increasingly pessimistic thoughts, which I have found extremely difficult to break. Other than that, I'm most happy when left to my own devices, without interference or interruption from others.
Right now, I've been nursing a desire which is to run my own business eventually, but I'm currently tied into co-managing a business with my partner which is vigorously full-time. I've been trying to do both at the same time, but am finding my energy and health levels sorely lacking in keeping up with the heavy load.
Pollux, welcome to Solunars. Thanks for the kind words and interest.
I imagine you picked your name on the forum because your Midheaven is 28°41' Gemini, near the longitude of the star Pollux at 28°28' Gemini. Even mundanely, Pollux is close to your MC, being almost exactly 1° away. Many of the traits you ascribe to yourself have something in common with the immortal of the two twins who invented boxing.
But, of course, what interests me most about your birth chart is that your Sun is less than half a degree from mine
In reading your description, I felt such weight and effort that I immediately thought you must be undergoing strong Saturn transits. I was right, you are; but, more to the point, you have an extremely potent Saturn at birth. I think I'd consider it your most defining planet: The more you can learn about Saturn, the more you'll understand yourself. [This is in addition to your very strong Mercury - ruling both your luminary signs and having important aspects.] You passed your Saturn return last year - a growing up time in several ways, and resettling what life wioll look like - and you have Pluto transiting your IC this year, so you're ready for really fundamental changes in what your experience of life will look like.
I'll work up some basic notes on the chart overall as a starting point.
These notes on your Sidereal Natal Horoscope are provided for your reference and study. They are not a full interpretation of your birth chart; rather, they are building blocks from which a full interpretation can be built.
Each factor listed below contributes to your character. These paragraphs commonly repeat or contradict each other. (We all have contradictions.) Though it does not take an astrologer to fuse these factors into a balanced picture of you and your life, it does require knowledge of human behavior and the ways that people support and sabotage themselves. Your astrologer, having these skills and knowing this symbolic language, can help you in this process. However, knowing yourself is a life-long undertaking. I encourage you to read through these notes, feeling your way through the interweaving ideas and reflecting on what you know of yourself.
The paragraphs are brief. I have sought to pack in everything essential, to use a few words to imply much more. Not every phrase will apply, of course. Some will be more important than others; but the gist of each section should clearly reflect truth about you. When you have spent time with this and have new questions, consult your astrologer to discuss them.
Character is destiny. Who you are determines the life that is yours to unfold. “Know thyself” is the key.
ANGULAR PLANETS & ASPECTS Saturn opposite Midheaven (4°34')
Needs to be self-reliant, self-sufficient, autonomous, independent. Works hard, industrious. Survival instinct is strong and drives much of the behavior. Hardship likely (especially in youth); struggle for security; life’s demands seem severe (some are beaten down; some gain great strength and endurance). Cautious, emotionally reserved, self-protective, conscientious, methodical, austere (may shut others out emotionally). Beware self-restriction arising from fear.
Moon square Sun (0°37' mundo)
Energetic, dynamic, terrific drive, forceful. Psychic vitality, a mental-emotional attitude biased toward success. At home with power. Intense desire in whatever they undertake. High vitality (though Saturn’s aspects to Moon and Sun may way on the health – chronic more than acute conditions). Sexual desires are particularly strong, passionate, though often narcissistic. Possible vanity, self-exaltation, and obstinacy.
Sun square Saturn (1°34')
Effective survivors, self-sufficient, hardworking, accomplishing. Used to work, few luxuries, preferring private, modest accommodations. Not always good control on strong impulses, but generally very good control of small and medium-sized ones. Authority (likely paternal) issues to overcome. Serious; enjoy deep subjects; yet few have so good a sense of humor. Childhood hardships common, circumstances force early maturation.
Moon opposite Saturn (3°45')
Proud, self-made. Hardworking, persistent, self-driving. Encourages growth in others. Usually emotionally reserved, private. Seeks to control situations and relationships. Parent issues (nourishment-deprivation). Judgmental, intolerant, distrustful, resisting. Can be pessimistic, feeling inferior, anxious, depressed.
MOON in GEMINI
Intellectual, curious, talkative (charming, engaging). Passions drive intellect and interests. Needs constant input. Attention and interests shifting, varied. Hyper-sensitive (psychic); touchy, edgy (irrational); withdraws, hides. Stability from companionship (does better paired). Needs approval, acceptance.
Moon trine Pluto (1°18')
Avoids habitual conformity and conventional conditioning; willing to “march to a different drummer” with little concern for others’ rules. Maverick, outsider, gently resists authority. Restless, can uproot on little notice. Deeply inquiring mind.
Moon square Venus (3°24')
Attractive, charming, affectionate, sexual charisma, sensual. Passive-dependent, moody, can be blindsided by strong feelings, often preoccupied with whether they are liked.
Moon opposite Neptune (3°20')
Hyper-sensitive. Empathic: can be deeply understanding, sympathetic; also, psychically vulnerable, easily wounded, fearing rejection. Self-defense through avoidance, closing senses, withdrawing, introversion (worry, moodiness). Drawn to the imaginative and surrealistic.
SUN in VIRGO
Curious, mentally sharp, strategic, tactical, analytical, logical, scrutinizing, encyclopedic, preserves information. Favors trees over forest. Bashful yet brazen. Respectful, tolerant, sociable, serious. Courageous in word and deed. Service-minded, conscientious. Active toward social progress (rarely radical). Androgynous traits.
Sun trine Mars (3°31')
Drive, courage, energy. Restless, moody, impatient, temperamental, stubbornly if silently prideful. Strong sexual needs. Industrious, instinctive leader.
MARS in TAURUS
Artists, musicians. Tender, responsive, humane. Mystic instincts attuned to love. Sexually attractive, romantic soul, sensual (sexually popular?). Men often second-guess themselves, perhaps a little lost, ambivalent about aggression.
Venus trine Mars (2°03')
Passion (in all senses), feels powerfully about things, seeks vivid experiences. Sexual passions mature early, continue late, rarely encumbered by too many conditions. Fun-loving, loves romance: interesting, likable, sociable horny people.
MERCURY in VIRGO
Curious, observant, methodical, analytical. Quiet, almost soft-spoken, good-natured (maybe too passive). Communication is right to the point (journalist). Logical, strategic: Wants the facts before deciding, considers all sides.
Mercury sextile Jupiter (0°36')
Intelligent; seems well-read, educated. Loves ideas and learning, comfortable with words. Good-tempered, kind. Optimistic. Business potential (from luck more than skill?). Always awaiting the next opportunity or break.
Mercury conjunct Venus (2°37')
Gracious expression, charmer, persuasive, maybe even a “sweet talker.” Light-hearted, pleasant. Delights in learning (learns easily). Retains a playful, childlike sense, a charm of immaturity.
Mercury square Neptune (2°41')
Hyper-responsive to environment and perceptions, extreme sensitivity to sensory impressions (may include psychism). Magnifies trivialities, fixates on particulars (often perfectionists); thus, often uncanny memories. Loves puzzle- or problem-solving, often in fantasy modelling; gets much pleasure and psychological relief from fantasied problem solving. However, commonly avoids own real problems by obsessing over fantasy problems. Dreamers, storytellers, can enthuse and enroll others and convince someone of almost anything. Many adapt readily to systematized thought-modes of math and science.
VENUS in VIRGO
Intellect and reason as basis of romantic choices (wants to “make good choices”). Companionship as important as Eros. Undemonstrative with affection or attraction. Kind lovers (more devoted than dutiful). Takes life seriously. Matter of fact, serving, inclined to help. Usually monogamous, few wander; inclined to conventional relationships.
Venus square Neptune (0°04')
Idealistic, future-looking, longs to be enchanted. Wants things perfect. Can become jaded, disillusioned, and cynical from repeated hurtful betrayals. Emotions run strong. Most sees the beauty in people and things, thus has blind spots (especially in romance). Trusting, naturally confident of others’ goodness (poor discrimination in selecting friends). Good-hearted, caretakes others, devoted friends, romantic, humanitarian. Natural people-readers (when not personally involved), natural psychologists.
Venus sextile Jupiter (2°01')
Warm, friendly, giving, hospitable, popular. Desires positive attention and appreciation (usually gets it). At home in comfort. Unusual luck opens doors. Inclined to indulgence or extravagance. A little “spoiled.”
OUTER PLANETS Saturn sextile Pluto (2°27')
“Runs their own show,” needs autonomy, makes up own rules. Lone wolf: solitary path is more natural; partnership requires more effort. Stubborn, tenacious (entrenched, defiant). Hard-working, responsible. Takes everything on own shoulder (vulnerable to burn-out).
Jim Eshelman wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:19 pm
Pollux, welcome to Solunars. Thanks for the kind words and interest.
I imagine you picked your name on the forum because your Midheaven is 28°41' Gemini, near the longitude of the star Pollux at 28°28' Gemini. Even mundanely, Pollux is close to your MC, being almost exactly 1° away. Many of the traits you ascribe to yourself have something in common with the immortal of the two twins who invented boxing.
But, of course, what interests me most about your birth chart is that your Sun is less than half a degree from mine
In reading your description, I felt such weight and effort that I immediately thought you must be undergoing strong Saturn transits. I was right, you are; but, more to the point, you have an extremely potent Saturn at birth. I think I'd consider it your most defining planet: The more you can learn about Saturn, the more you'll understand yourself. [This is in addition to your very strong Mercury - ruling both your luminary signs and having important aspects.] You passed your Saturn return last year - a growing up time in several ways, and resettling what life wioll look like - and you have Pluto transiting your IC this year, so you're ready for really fundamental changes in what your experience of life will look like.
I'll work up some basic notes on the chart overall as a starting point.
Not at all. These resources have proved to be more insightful than what I've devoured so far. I decided to register because I couldn't leave.
My apologies for the seemingly dour tone, but I can assure you that I'm not like this for much of the time if your Sun is less than half a degree away from mine...that means my natal Saturn would have been pulling it's own weight on your natal Sun...
Right on for Pollux. I thought someone might have picked up on the hint, but didn't expect to be outed so immediately.
Yes. I had an image of what I wanted to do back then (albeit more rose-tinted and wishy-washy), but increasingly I've been feeling that it's 'now or never', and that if I don't do something about it, I'll never get that chance again.
Thank you so much again for the notes, I'll be chewing over these - and planning a proper reply...
I like the Saturn+Neptune/Venus vibes that reverberate through your psyche and chart. Of course there's so much going on in your chart it's a good bit to process; definitely an interesting chart. Rose-Tinted and whishy-washy are definitely Neptune/Venus (Pisces/Taurus) vibes. Though I'm curious how close you are to the Mars nature as your Midheaven sits on a Mars like star (the boxer Pollux). The Mars trine/sex with the Sun and Venus I find to be a little less intense than the square/conj/oop (this may be different in you perhaps?)..
No i'm not homeless.. you just can't smell the roses as well as you can through a teepee door..
Soft Alpaca wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:28 pm
I like the Saturn+Neptune/Venus vibes that reverberate through your psyche and chart. Of course there's so much going on in your chart it's a good bit to process; definitely an interesting chart. Rose-Tinted and whishy-washy are definitely Neptune/Venus (Pisces/Taurus) vibes. Though I'm curious how close you are to the Mars nature as your Midheaven sits on a Mars like star (the boxer Pollux). The Mars trine/sex with the Sun and Venus I find to be a little less intense than the square/conj/oop (this may be different in you perhaps?)..
Hi Soft Alpaca, I think the Saturn/Neptune vibes reverberate through my inexhaustible love for the unknown and mysterious. Anything that is subtle and veiled (metaphorical, symbolical) I enjoy immensely. I like automatic writing, surrealism and weaving a narrative path from the coincidental. But, at the same time, I make attempts to materialise my ideas into reality. I am critical of others and myself, though only because it seems that things could be done in a much better way (I feel) than the way presented. Maybe that's how my Venus/Neptune partile square manifests with the mixture of Sun, Moon and Saturn.
To answer the Mars question, if I find myself fascinated by something, I get easily motivated - although in situations where assertion is required I'm terrible at it, because 1) self-criticism leading to the default thinking that I could be wrong, thus never fighting back, and 2) feeling that the other party has very good points in contention, and thus thinking that my argument might be invalidated.
The boxer reference really stumps me. I don't do boxing! Although I need someone else to 'bounce' off on and generate ideas through conversation. Does that count as a boxing reference?
And Jim - after looking at my chart, I'm having very different thoughts from when I looked at it in Tropical. Saturn foreground for me - difficult childhood, check, obstacles, check - but in retrospect, it wasn't so difficult to the extent that I experienced serious deprivation, because I have a very loving mum who shouldered a lot of the financial and material inadequacies by herself. It's as if I had that opportunity to share the 'heavy sack' and not haul it up, and witness the boulder falling, like Sisyphus. I think that would be how the Jupiter aspects come into play in my life. Tough luck...until a window of opportunity comes along. Or simply creating that opportunity for myself, if it doesn't appear.
I have always constantly felt that I'm 'late to the party' in life (i.e. not enjoying my younger years, coming to hobbies at a later age than my peers due to lack of resources & money, gradually loosening up and finally wanting to try new things...when others at this age have enjoyed too much and are weary of it ), and the feeling of having to seek for things myself because others seemed 'busy', or 'not interested'. I guess this is why I became even more driven, because it felt so hard to come by them.
And, writing all this down - I'm starting to appreciate the ability for Sidereal to be holistic, not irresolutely dualistic. I did a reading for my partner recently and he was astonished at how accurate it described his nature.
I was trying to connect Pollux (or the nature given to it) within your own chart. Your chart and communication style is clearly intellectually and philosophically founded. Gemini's are excellent at arguing, it's the proverbial back and forth nature of the sign that sets these arguments up to be much like boxing rings. Gemini is also good with their hands. For whatever reason I agree with Jim the nature of the immortal and the boxing twins shows heavily in your words (the sensitive side makes sense as well too but isn't put off as strongly). As for your Virgo nature I could see you being brazen in real life. Certain vocabulary usage such as "genuine desire... Engage" and "tension...frustration" are very clear Mercury+Mars energy, thought typically found in Gemini your Sun in Virgo aspecting Gemini moon and Mars could add to this (hyperactive nervous system, anxiety, frustration).
As a Taurus with Neptune and Venus each founded well in your chart I'm not surprised by the attraction to the veiled and subtle. Curious about your thoughts and relationship with nature.
No i'm not homeless.. you just can't smell the roses as well as you can through a teepee door..
If the boxing nature of the fixed star Pollux are along these lines, then yes, I would wholeheartedly agree with the back and forth nature of engagement and reciprocation. I typically like bouncing off people, but I usually end up listening to what they say, then store it somewhere else in my brain to chew over it later, rather than engaging back. Either usually from feeling like I have nothing to say that would add further value - which would then enter small talk territory, or from being too anxious. I used to draw but have abandoned it to write.
Brazenness in real life...perhaps in the way that I do things without thinking about the social consequences of it, or caring about what others would think about it. I recently cut my hair out of sheer frustration because it's so difficult and takes too long to keep it clean, and my mum was completely aghast at my decision. I don't have straight hair, so my hair literally looked like a bush, and I look like I'm 15 again. She's been complaining that it looks horrible to me, and to anyone who will listen but I've tuned her out because it's been a godsend. Maybe in terms of sheer brazenness (although it doesn't sound very brazen), sending a poem to my favourite musician for his birthday, and receiving a reply to it. Despite me internally cringing afterwards (but it was fun!)
I'm in that school of 'You do you, and if anyone finds something wrong with you, even if you've not purposely done anything to make them displeased, then it's their problem and not you' so maybe this adds a little more shine to the brazenness. I'm never really 'at peace' - although thinking about it now this seems to be an innate nature and not anything 'wrong' with me. The way to relax is to unwind with a good discussion or a well-written piece of fiction, or to talk with others. Basically being kept in motion; being in the flow is when I feel most happy.
My relationship with Nature is that I feel and draw much relief from it, and seek beauty in the insignificance of small things, and also things that people typically find ugly and disgusting. That in some way reflects also my feeling of insignificance and awe for something much bigger than us. As much as I like mystery I do tend to want to uncover it, but I do have to stop or else I would get a headache.
Many boxers have luminaries and angles in aspect with the star Pollux.
Many people with luminaries and angles in aspect with the star Pollux have nothing to do with boxing.
Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:19 pm
Many boxers have luminaries and angles in aspect with the star Pollux.
Many people with luminaries and angles in aspect with the star Pollux have nothing to do with boxing.
Garth Allen extracted all 1,113 birth dates of eminent boxers from the Ring Record Book & Boxing Encyclopedia by Nat Fleisher. The most common Sidereal Sun-sign placements were Pisces, Gemini, and Virgo; the lowest were Libra and Leo. None of these were quite statistically significant, but they definitely stood out from the other signs around them.
One of the most interesting findings, though, was that the greatest "clumping" of Sun positions wasn't in any of these signs - it was in the band 25° Capricorn to 1° Aquarius, i.e., a couple of degrees either side of 28° Capricorn - the traditional exaltation degree of Mars! For the last four decades or so, I've taken this finding as one of the "interesting facts" that suggests there is something substantial and genuine to the concentration of a planetary quality at the exaltation degrees.
The highest individual degree was Tropical 21° Aquarius - Sidereal 27° Capricorn, with quite a drop-off from there to the next degree. With three occurrences per degree expected on average, this one degree had 10 occurrences.
The Gemini emphasis is clear based onb temperament and mythology. The Pisces symbolism is complex and intriguing, especially when one considers the Piscean fondness for sensationalism and the similarity of the boxer results with those for entertainers. (Plus that lovely bit of symbolism that a pair of boxing gloves tied together, a professional symbol of pugilism, resembles the two umbilicus-connected Fishes.) But the concentration at 27-28° Capricorn is striking (uh, no pugilistic pun intended).
Yes indeed on the striking Jim. Not sure if this applies to Mars in the location as well but either way I like to hit things. As for Pollux: the brazen you describe also dances around Gemini's pluto nature as well. I have to point out also that your nature is very androgynous, nothing about you (that you have so far revealed) makes me want to say that you are either a male or female- down to the usage of the word partner to describe your significant other. Pluto, Saturn, and Mercury stick out the most to me in your personality so far, with Mars, Venus, and Neptune occasionally flaring in. I'm curious about his (the partner's) birth chart now, and perhaps how it works with yours.
No i'm not homeless.. you just can't smell the roses as well as you can through a teepee door..
Jim Eshelman wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:42 pm
To flesh this out a little more...
Garth Allen extracted all 1,113 birth dates of eminent boxers from the Ring Record Book & Boxing Encyclopedia by Nat Fleisher. The most common Sidereal Sun-sign placements were Pisces, Gemini, and Virgo; the lowest were Libra and Leo. None of these were quite statistically significant, but they definitely stood out from the other signs around them.
One of the most interesting findings, though, was that the greatest "clumping" of Sun positions wasn't in any of these signs - it was in the band 25° Capricorn to 1° Aquarius, i.e., a couple of degrees either side of 28° Capricorn - the traditional exaltation degree of Mars! For the last four decades or so, I've taken this finding as one of the "interesting facts" that suggests there is something substantial and genuine to the concentration of a planetary quality at the exaltation degrees.
The highest individual degree was Tropical 21° Aquarius - Sidereal 27° Capricorn, with quite a drop-off from there to the next degree. With three occurrences per degree expected on average, this one degree had 10 occurrences.
The Gemini emphasis is clear based on temperament and mythology. The Pisces symbolism is complex and intriguing, especially when one considers the Piscean fondness for sensationalism and the similarity of the boxer results with those for entertainers. (Plus that lovely bit of symbolism that a pair of boxing gloves tied together, a professional symbol of pugilism, resembles the two umbilicus-connected Fishes.) But the concentration at 27-28° Capricorn is striking (uh, no pugilistic pun intended).
This is fascinating, and an amazing thrust (heh) of synchronicity. I've wondered why it's only these exaltation degrees particularly? Are there more studies like this? I'm interested in setting up a study if there aren't any available to read. Although I understand that a large amount of data would be needed for results to be statistically significant, but it could be worth a try...
Soft Alpaca wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:49 pm
Yes indeed on the striking Jim. Not sure if this applies to Mars in the location as well but either way I like to hit things. As for Pollux: the brazen you describe also dances around Gemini's pluto nature as well. I have to point out also that your nature is very androgynous, nothing about you (that you have so far revealed) makes me want to say that you are either a male or female- down to the usage of the word partner to describe your significant other. Pluto, Saturn, and Mercury stick out the most to me in your personality so far, with Mars, Venus, and Neptune occasionally flaring in. I'm curious about his (the partner's) birth chart now, and perhaps how it works with yours.
Going back to Jim's points about the influence of Mercury and Saturn - I've been fascinated and have been involved by everything mercurial, both as a hobbyist and as a vocation (books, communication, how information is transferred and communicated, etc) along with this weird crippling low confidence which sometimes I think I understand the roots of, but for which the real reason still eludes me. When I decide on things, or act, it's almost always because I feel so pressured that I simply have to do something about it. For this, I've been told that I'm brave, but to me it feels more like a fool's courage (not knowing the rocky road lying ahead) rather than actual bravery. Of course, I've been burned by impulsivity although I've been bailed out at the last moment.
Until very recently, I learnt that I used to be terrified of other kids as a very young child. For some reason I don't recall this (Neptune's tricks?). During playtime, I would run away from them and spend time by myself instead of mingling around with other kids. As a kid I swiveled between expressivity and inhibition. I recall an incident during my kindergarten years where I was too enthusiastic with other kids, to the extent that their parents complained that I was bothering their kids so I had to be transferred out. I don't think this affected me badly, but there's a nagging feeling somewhere, which I can't pin my finger on. I substituted socializing for showing off my talents to others in the hopes of gaining their friendship - so in retrospect I probably was incredibly obnoxious as a kid. But also incredibly lonely.
I don't like socializing because I constantly felt on edge around others (still do when it's face to face, unless it's about something that's super interesting and I lose all inhibition in my excitement), until during my teenage years where I had my own hobbies, and could at least talk to others who shared the same interests. It feels very hard to truly express what I want to say because it seems to be all (thereby feeling that I would make others uncomfortable) or nothing (the usual manner of pensive silence, which others have mistaken for unfriendliness). For this reason, I prefer writing to speaking. For the record, I do not like making people uncomfortable not out of niceness, but because I wouldn't like to be confronted by such an obnoxious person myself. In some ways I'm still that kid deep down, alternating between supreme self-consciousness to the point of paralysis, and being too carefree and 'in-your-face'. It does sound like how those angular Sun/Moon/Saturn aspects would manifest.
And back to your question, Soft Alpaca - keep guessing then, although I think you'll know eventually
Ah yes, my partner. He likes his privacy and I respect it, so all I'll say is that he (heh) is impetuously hot-headed, but is the kindest and most thoughtful person that I've met. And also - his most remarkable traits - that he has the highest frustration, dedication and pain tolerance I've ever seen of any living person (that I know). We bonded through similar life experiences, and ways of thinking. Actually I got to know him when I was very young, so he's a bit of a father figure in some ways, as well as a partner.
if your Sun is less than half a degree away from mine...that means my natal Saturn would have been pulling it's own weight on your natal Sun...
