LeiLei's chart

[LeiLei]

Name on forum: LeiLei
Birth date: 10/07/1978
Birth time: 3:35 pm
Birth place: Decatur, Georgia
Source: Birth Certificate

Current residence: Morgantown, WV

I'm planning to relocate in the next couple of months (within the US) so any insight on a suitable area to settle would be greatly appreciated. It will likely be a solitary journey. I am unattached romantically & have little family/friends. Very introverted. My greatest desire is to reestablish my connection to nature. I long to walk outside my door & to be engulfed in the forest for hours. Growing a garden would be awesome too. Far away from cities. A small community might be nice.

I'm sorry if I sound vague. It feels very odd sharing details of myself with strangers, I don't want to divulge anything that isn't relevant. My most pressing questions are: Where am I going? And what are the key features in my chart I should be most aware of going forward?

Thank you very much!

[Jim Eshelman]

LeiLei, welcome to Solunars.

To begin, your birthplace is the sort of location we often would pick for someone to go because you were born with all three benefic planets (Venus, Jupiter, and Uranus) on the angles. Nonetheless, I understand that there is a time when one has to move, and it seems your time is now.

Normally we want to play up these exact three planets. For your wish to connect especially to nature, I suggest we play up your Venus (and then add any other positives that make themselves available while avoiding any avoidable negative planets).

Going on that principle, the best locations are almost exactly due north and south of where you live. If you want to look on a map, place a ruler vertical through Detroit and pick anyplace on that vertical. The closer the better, but 100-150 miles either side is still "in the zone." (It's actually that simple in your case, since no other planets cross into that space in the continental United States for your chart.)

A few other tidbits:

Possibly the single happiest place for you on Earth (from an astrological perspective - I can't speak to cultural environmental perspectives) is the western part of Cuba. Your Venus and Jupiter lines cross just off its coast.

Your Jupiter setting line slides along the entire East Coast except for coastal Georgia and South Carolina. These areas are primarily urban, so I wouldn't pick them if you primarily want exposure to nature, but I need to mention that you stand an excellent chance of prospering and succeeding especially through the densely urban band of Washington, DC through New York City and then - perhaps more country like? - Vermont and New Hampshire.

Avoid the longitude shared by New Orleans and Memphis (or 100-150 miles either side). It's quite contrary to what you say you want and would be expected to attract conflict, struggle, and various sorts of damage. (It might be fine for a rough-and-tumble vacation.)

You have another Jupiter zone through the Eastern edge of the plains states. Look due north-south along a line through Sioux Falls, SD and Fargo, ND, sliding down to the part of Texas a little west of Houston (you'll see all this on a map). There's an area in Oklahoma where Sun and Jupiter cross that could be especially positive in self-directed, moving forward, prospering ways, but I'd skip the Dallas area - not because it's guaranteed to be a problem but because it stirs much uncertainty. (It would be a fine area for diving into a significant business venture with clarity, commitment, and resources.)

But for the specific things you asked about, I'd suggest something near the vertical that Detroit is on.

[LeiLei]

Such a thorough reply! Thank you Jim!

I'm living in West Virginia now but it's funny, the last few days I've been considering something I never thought I would, returning home. Not Atlanta but the countryside. I even researched homes for sale in Washington, GA where my grandmother was born & I loved visiting as a child. And when I first started pondering where to move, East Tennessee was the first place that popped into my mind. It lingers still. This is awesome, you've given me much to consider yet narrowed it down at the same time! I wish I had asked weeks ago, thank you again!

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm living in West Virginia now but it's funny, the last few days I've been considering something I never thought I would, returning home. Not Atlanta but the countryside. I even researched homes for sale in Washington, GA where my grandmother was born & I loved visiting as a child. And when I first started pondering where to move, East Tennessee was the first place that popped into my mind. It lingers still. This is awesome, you've given me much to consider yet narrowed it down at the same time! I wish I had asked weeks ago, thank you again!

My sister-in-law just moved her family from Southern California to Fort Oglethorpe near the Tennessee border.

[LeiLei]

Wow that's quite the move! Are they all adjusting well to their new surroundings?

[Jim Eshelman]

Wow that's quite the move! Are they all adjusting well to their new surroundings?

They like it. She's from NYC originally, has lived in Southern Cal most of her life (but not the densely urban areas). I think she takes to rural life (having come from NYC) the same way I thrive in densely urban areas (having grown up in small town Midwest).

[LeiLei]

Interesting how that works. Growing up right outside of Atlanta, I couldn't wait to leave! At 23, I left with my 4 year old son & a map of the North Carolina coast. We found a tiny town with 2.5k pop & lived there for 10 years. Then we lived in Orlando for 5 years & currently WV for the last 4 years. I loved NC but I've never really found my fit anywhere. Not sure I have one. But if I can be surrounded by trees I can live with that.

When you have the time, would you mind diving into my chart a bit more? I found your site right at the end of my allotted SkyClock research. Most of my research has been in Vedic astrology but it became a bit much. It was refreshing finding your site, decluttering my chart by removing asteroids, the nodes, and aspects with wide orbs. But then I had to stop and get back to my work. I haven't had time to wrap my brain around what you call the angles & how to decipher which of the luminaries are in the foreground or in the background of my chart. I'm aware of angular, succedent, & cadent houses but I've stopped giving houses much attention. Would Venus, Uranus, & Jupiter be foreground planets in my chart because of their placement? And would that mean that the Sun, Pluto, & Mercury have little impact in my life due to their placement? I'm still haven't quite figured out my strengths & weaknesses within my own chart.

I'm very naive to all of this as you can see but I guess that's to be expected having only one month of research into it. My greatest desire would actually have to be - Time. Time to learn everything and a forest to explore while I learn it!

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, I'll post a set of notes for you shortly. One thing I want to point out in advance: I've started experimentally using the planet Eris - a real planet, about the size of Pluto and about twice as far out. We are very young in our looking at this planet but I think we have a handle on the basics.

I mention this because your horoscope has a remarkable factor: Sun opposes Eris 0°00' orb, which should make it a very strong factor for you. We'll see how it shakes out when I post the notes for you.

[Jim Eshelman]

You are a Virgo with a Scorpio style, costumed as a Capricorn.

These notes on your Sidereal Natal Horoscope are provided for your reference and study. They are not a full interpretation of your birth chart; rather, they are building blocks from which a full interpretation can be built.

Each factor listed below contributes to your character. These paragraphs commonly repeat or contradict each other. (We all have contradictions.) Though it does not take an astrologer to fuse these factors into a balanced picture of you and your life, it does require knowledge of human behavior and the ways that people support and sabotage themselves. Your astrologer, having these skills and knowing this symbolic language, can help you in this process. However, knowing yourself is a life-long undertaking. I encourage you to read through these notes, feeling your way through the interweaving ideas and reflecting on what you know of yourself.

The paragraphs are brief. I have sought to pack in everything essential, to use a few words to imply much more. Not every phrase will apply, of course. Some will be more important than others; but the gist of each section should clearly reflect truth about you. When you have spent time with this and have new questions, consult your astrologer to discuss them.

Character is destiny. Who you are determines the life that is yours to unfold. “Know thyself” is the key.

ANGULAR PLANETS & FOREGROUND ASPECTS
Venus conjunct Midheaven (1°49')
Charming, attractive, popular, friendly, gracious. Feels and responds powerfully, forthrightly; invested in experiencing, absorbing impressions. Flirtatious, affectionate (sexually more receptive than aggressive). Loving, caretaking, mothering. Kind, considerate, averse to cruelty and harm. Stands against injustice (personal or social). Acts to reduce her own stress and friction. Needs beauty, enjoys “the good life.” Drawn to pleasure, peace, tranquility (not pain, violence, turbulence).

Uranus conjunct Midheaven (4°41')
Strongly individualistic, independent, going their own way. Needs freedom and breathing room (physical, intellectual) and frequent renewal (through new interests and experiences, shedding inhibitions, shaking loose stale conditions). Responds strongly to the new, unexpected, thrilling, colorful, exciting. Pragmatic realist anchored by naked truth. Clownish, fun. Prefers disclosure over mystery.

Jupiter opposite Ascendant (4°47')
Positive, optimistic, oriented to the good and qualitative. Authoritative, strives for expertise and leadership. Unusually lucky. Aspires to (enjoys) life of leisure and its perks (seeks to improve self and conditions). Generous, congenial, tolerant, good-humored, kind. Sexually giving. Needs esteem and inclusion (usually well received; can be overly role-conscious). Responds to cultural totems, heritage, tradition, social graces, social and ceremonial rituals. Champion of justice and fair play.

Venus square Jupiter (2°58' mundo)
Fundamentally social creatures. Warm, friendly, giving, hospitable, gracious (reigns over social events). Nearly always liked (great need to be liked, desires positive attention and appreciation more than most, usually gets it). At home in a fine lifestyle (or as celebrity, aristocrat, etc.). Indulgent in all oral pleasures, e.g., preparing and eating fine food. Usually has an easier time through life despite sometimes harsh starts (experience unusual luck or patronage), usually partner well. Inclination to extravagance, possible “spoiled brat” attitude (risk of mild narcissism).

Mars conjunct Uranus (2°32')
Uncompromisingly individualist (but rarely ungraciously so). Bold, often stand out as highly distinctive characters in their circles. Rebel, challenges prevailing thinking, brutally honest. Always into something new, often offbeat. Takes risks psychologically (sometimes physically). Industrious, resourceful, shows initiative. Mentally quick, not necessarily intellectual; knack for astute assessment of situations, analytical, mechanical instincts. Sexually uninhibited, enthusiastic (lifestyle may challenge social standards; actions may challenge the world to try to stop them). Trusts own instincts more than outside advice.

MOON in SCORPIO
Socially active, good-natured, friendly, humor. Willing to be outlandish. Factually forthright; emotionally cautious (withholding); senses others’ motives. Sexual volcanoes: built pressure needs explosive release. Sexually pragmatic. Frequent relationship drama; combative. Easy to anger (it passes). Bold, adventurous, restless, “try anything.” Gossip (sometimes vindictive). Beliefs likely unorthodox.

Moon square Sun (1°36' mundo)
Energetic, dynamic, terrific drive, forceful. Psychic vitality, a mental-emotional attitude biased toward success. At home with power. Intense desire in whatever they undertake. High vitality. Sexual desires strong, passionate, often narcissistic. Possible vanity, self-exaltation, and obstinacy.

SUN in VIRGO
Curious, mentally sharp, strategic, tactical, analytical, logical, scrutinizing, encyclopedic, preserves information. Favors trees over forest. Bashful yet brazen. Respectful, tolerant, sociable, serious. Courageous in word and deed. Service-minded, conscientious. Active toward social progress (rarely radical). Androgynous traits.

Sun conjunct opposite square Eris (0°00')
A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder).

Sun conjunct Pluto (2°19')
A “law unto themselves,” “the exception to the rule.” Little respect for arbitrary expectations. Antiauthoritarian, needs to be free from arbitrary or incompetent control. Comfortable as “outsider” or congenial “bad girl.” Often seems aloof, unresponsive, but rarely harsh; usually kind, “live and let live.”

Sun sextile Neptune (1°49')
Air of secrecy or mystery. Loves drama, music, fantasy, surrealism. Active imagination. Can move and inspire others if they gain focus and perseverance. Sensitive to impressions of people and places. Unrealistic (out of proportion) self-view.

MARS in LIBRA
Warm, sociable, likable. Independent, self-sufficient, survivors (slow to ask for help). Persistent, serious, intent. Interesting, odd (disreputable?), on the outskirts. Ego distinction prevails over ego-submersion (but wants marriage). Passion for social justice. Feminine thrives better than masculine (feminist). Women aggressively protect families, friends (power, impact). Possible substance abuse problems.

Mars sextile Saturn (3°15')
Struggle marks these lives (from prejudice or early hardship). Hardened, tough survivors, self-sufficient, seeking control. Some accept the hardship and focus on “getting through”; some act meek, unthreatening. Conflicts with authority. Serious, reserved, cautious about enthusiasms.

MERCURY in VIRGO
Curious, observant, methodical, analytical. Quiet, almost soft-spoken, good-natured (maybe too passive). Communication is right to the point (journalist). Logical, strategic: Wants the facts before deciding, considers all sides.

Mercury conjunct Pluto (3°00')
Thinking is atypical, unbeholden to convention, outlier. Probing, investigative, thinks deeply about things. Mind may skirt the edge of normalcy (may slip off). Forthright, candid (needs authentic communication); can alienate with words (challenging, confrontational). Excitable about inquiries and new ideas (enthusiasm; burnout?). Impatient (irritated by obstacles, poor frustration tolerance). Instinct for abstract mathematics (great composers, chess players, physicists).

Mercury sextile Neptune (3°31')
Highly responsive to environment, sensitive to subtle impressions. Magnifies trivialities (perfectionist). Loves puzzle- or problem-solving. Curious about the unknown (mysteries, occultism). Dreamer, storyteller, can enthuse and persuade others.

Mercury opposite Eris (5°19')
Insight comes easily: Mind can manage vast arrays of data points, incorporating facts and evidence, leaping to significant, persistent success. A sassy, often unbounded “think-for-oneself” way through life. Promiscuous: persistently casual, diverse, and indiscriminate in sexual variety.

VENUS in LIBRA
Relationship-focused. Polite, well-mannered, likable. Seeks active romantic-social life. Intense passions (but can deny themselves pleasure). Requires and gets loyalty and faithfulness (jealous, possessive). Secretive about sexual relationships. Vain (arousal linked to flattery). Loves beautiful things, luxury (spoiled). Mediators, negotiators, peacemakers.

[Parto]

Hi.

I haven't had time to wrap my brain around what you call the angles & how to decipher which of the luminaries are in the foreground or in the background of my chart.

Both luminaries (Moon & Sun) are in the background. So are Mercury, Neptune, Pluto and Eris.

Would Venus, Uranus, & Jupiter be foreground planets in my chart because of their placement?

Yes, as given above, and also Mars more widely.

And would that mean that the Sun, Pluto, & Mercury have little impact in my life due to their placement?

These are background, but that means they have a tendency not to express themselves, which is quite different than having little impact in one's life. The planets represent fundamental needs, and in one way or another, everyone has some relationship to each of those.

You can read about the natures of the planets here, and perhaps compare your experience of these to their angularity: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31

Background aspects (you have some) have a tendency not to express themselves. Foreground aspects (see above) have ready, predominant expression.

This will help make sense of everything: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19

[By Jove]

Hi.

I haven't had time to wrap my brain around what you call the angles & how to decipher which of the luminaries are in the foreground or in the background of my chart.

Both luminaries (Moon & Sun) are in the background. So are Mercury, Neptune, Pluto and Eris.

Would Venus, Uranus, & Jupiter be foreground planets in my chart because of their placement?

Yes, as given above, and also Mars more widely.

And would that mean that the Sun, Pluto, & Mercury have little impact in my life due to their placement?

These are background, but that means they have a tendency not to express themselves, which is quite different than having little impact in one's life. The planets represent fundamental needs, and in one way or another, everyone has some relationship to each of those.

You can read about the natures of the planets here, and perhaps compare your experience of these to their angularity: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31

Background aspects (you have some) have a tendency not to express themselves. Foreground aspects (see above) have ready, predominant expression.

This will help make sense of everything: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19

So a background planet is one that does not have angularity?

[Jim Eshelman]

More complicated, Jove. That would be a casual definition but, more formally, it's a planet in the zone centered around a Campanus cadent cusp.

By traditional modes, it would be half a house either side of a cadent cusp. I think a better representation is about one third of the cadent house and two thirds of the succedent house. Here's an illustration to make it clearer: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=173

[LeiLei]

Thank you Parto! Those links are helpful indeed!

And thank you again, Jim! I'm going to dive into everything over the next few days. I'll report back on anything I find significant if that might be useful to anyone.

[LeiLei]

Hope it's okay I'm asking this question here rather than starting a new thread - I'll start a new one if that's better! I'm trying to figure which of my planets are middleground & background. My chart is more a X than a cross so I hope I have this right.

Foreground: Venus, Uranus, Jupiter, Mars
Middleground: Moon, Neptune, Saturn(just barely?)
Background: Mercury, Pluto, Sun

I was also looking at my son's chart. He's going through a major life change, very uncertain about the future, what to do next & I'm wondering if Uranus & Jupiter in the background are playing a role in his indecision possibly? If I have this correct that is!

September 29, 1997, 6:15 AM, Decatur, GA

Foreground: Mercury, Moon
Middleground: Sun, Mars, Pluto, Neptune, Saturn
Background: Venus, Uranus, Jupiter

[Parto]

I gave the grounds for your planets in my post above. Only Saturn is in the middleground.

[LeiLei]

I gave the grounds for your planets in my post above. Only Saturn is in the middleground.

Yes I remember. But I had only asked about Foreground/Background. I wasn't aware there was a middleground.

And going by Jim's "New quantification of Angularity" post, I'm not certain you're correct.

[Parto]

[redacted]

[Jim Eshelman]

Hope it's okay I'm asking this question here rather than starting a new thread - I'll start a new one if that's better! I'm trying to figure which of my planets are middleground & background. My chart is more a X than a cross so I hope I have this right.

Foreground: Venus, Uranus, Jupiter, Mars
Middleground: Moon, Neptune, Saturn (just barely?)
Background: Mercury, Pluto, Sun

According to my model (which is what you later said you were comparing against), Moon is also background, being 8°07' above the 12th cusp along the prime vertical. Besides that, you're right on target. (Oh, Saturn isn't barely middleground, it's solidly so, being 3°17' below the 8th cusp in PV longitude.)

According to the older, "classic" method - half a house either side of angular, succedent, and cadent cusps, respectively, it would be the same.

I was also looking at my son's chart... I'm wondering if Uranus & Jupiter in the background are playing a role in his indecision possibly? If I have this correct that is!

September 29, 1997, 6:15 AM, Decatur, GA

Foreground: Mercury, Moon
Middleground: Sun, Mars, Pluto, Neptune, Saturn
Background: Venus, Uranus, Jupiter

Exactly right on the placements. However, I wouldn't attribute indecision to a background Uranus. (Though Uranus isn't a big factor either way, if anything to would lean to "too many options, too many new cool things keep catching my attention" if foreground and, therefore, might contribute to indecision if foreground.)

But for indecision, just look at the two foreground planets: Moon and Mercury are the most variable, shifting of planets. Furthermore, they both closely aspect Neptune. He's also a Spoke Sun, which contributes to multiple and shifting interests. Finally, he's young - before his Saturn return. He still has time

Neptune has come across his Moon and angles for several years. This might have been a long "lost years" period. Saturn is currently exactly on his Jupiter, not usually a time when people take bold moves or move toward immediate achievement (but possibly a time for slow, long-term investment of energy).

[LeiLei]

I was also looking at my son's chart... I'm wondering if Uranus & Jupiter in the background are playing a role in his indecision possibly? If I have this correct that is!

September 29, 1997, 6:15 AM, Decatur, GA

Foreground: Mercury, Moon
Middleground: Sun, Mars, Pluto, Neptune, Saturn
Background: Venus, Uranus, Jupiter

Exactly right on the placements. However, I wouldn't attribute indecision to a background Uranus. (Though Uranus isn't a big factor either way, if anything to would lean to "too many options, too many new cool things keep catching my attention" if foreground and, therefore, might contribute to indecision if foreground.)

But for indecision, just look at the two foreground planets: Moon and Mercury are the most variable, shifting of planets. Furthermore, they both closely aspect Neptune. He's also a Spoke Sun, which contributes to multiple and shifting interests. Finally, he's young - before his Saturn return. He still has time

Neptune has come across his Moon and angles for several years. This might have been a long "lost years" period. Saturn is currently exactly on his Jupiter, not usually a time when people take bold moves or move toward immediate achievement (but possibly a time for slow, long-term investment of energy).

Thank you Jim! I guess I'm looking too deeply into things rather than seeing the answer that's right in front of me. I probably should have said though that he's not your typical 23 year old. He's been a fully contributing member of society since his late teens & is currently splitting from his partner of 8 years with whom he shares a home & 2 cats. Their lease runs out in 6 weeks so they're sticking together until then & then she's moving across the country. He also lost his job a little over a month ago but that has already turned out to be a blessing in disguise. So he's not getting any pressure from me, I think he's earned a break!

[LeiLei]

Reading Jim & Mike's discussion about Mercury-Neptune on another thread prompted me to offer some insight on my own Class 2 Mercury-Neptune sextile. I own roughly 75 jigsaw puzzles (used to own about double that). I can put a 1000 piece puzzle together in a matter of hours based on color & pattern. I divide them into groups & then get to work. While I'm not doing anything truly significant it always feels like I've accomplished something important & it is very satisfying. This also occurs with my art although a bit differently. I will 'magnify' any issue upon the canvas 100 fold & labor over it obsessively until I'm finally satisfied. I will spend hours on one tiny section getting something just right that is likely to never be noticed by anyone but me. It's a little maddening but it's me & unlikely to change so I've decided to embrace it.

[Jim Eshelman]

And you're a Virgo to boot

[LeiLei]

And you're a Virgo to boot

Yay! That's not as hard to embrace fortunately!

[SteveS]

[LeiLei]

Decided to look at my midpoints & there's Mercury/Neptune almost exactly on my MC. Of course there's also Venus/Uranus, Sun/Moon, & Saturn/ASC! Midpoints are very interesting, another puzzle!

[SteveS]

LeiLei wrote:

Midpoints are very interesting, another puzzle!

Indeed! For the last few weeks I have been poring over some new material about direct midpoints in harmonic charts, particularly for my 5th Harmonic and 25H. In my 5th Harmonic the dominating aspect is a partile Me 180 Ur which is dead on for my life since age 30. In my 25H a direct midpoint of Me/Ur = Jup 0,45, which is even more of a dominating astrological influence in my life since age 30. Comparing all my direct midpoints in my Natal to this one direct midpoint in my 25H, by far, this 25H of Me/Ur = Jup dominates any of the direct midpoints in my Natal. It’s like I found a huge astrological missing link for my life puzzel . Do I understand how or why midpoints work/operate in my life? No, but I strongly feel they do.

But you love and are addicted to puzzles LeiLei, keep putting em together. I love the the astrological puzzles!

[mikestar13]

LeiLei, the next edition of TMSA will be out in a day of two and it will display midpoints. I'll post your char there when the program is finished.

[LeiLei]

Indeed! For the last few weeks I have been poring over some new material about direct midpoints in harmonic charts, particularly for my 5th Harmonic and 25H. In my 5th Harmonic the dominating aspect is a partile Me 180 Ur which is dead on for my life since age 30. In my 25H a direct midpoint of Me/Ur = Jup 0,45, which is even more of a dominating astrological influence in my life since age 30. Comparing all my direct midpoints in my Natal to this one direct midpoint in my 25H, by far, this 25H of Me/Ur = Jup dominates any of the direct midpoints in my Natal. It’s like I found a huge astrological missing link for my life puzzel . Do I understand how or why midpoints work/operate in my life? No, but I strongly feel they do.

But you love and are addicted to puzzles LeiLei, keep putting em together. I love the the astrological puzzles!

I hadn't thought to look at midpoints in harmonic charts, I'll have to give them a look! I am definitely addicted, my whole life is finding one puzzle to sort out after another - it's so much fun! Even the hard stuff, like sorting out my childhood I find is very cathartic. I would definitely rather have a clear picture than be shrouded in mystery. And if it keeps my brain firing on all cylinders I'm counting it as a healthy addiction!

[LeiLei]

LeiLei, the next edition of TMSA will be out in a day of two and it will display midpoints. I'll post your char there when the program is finished.

I can't wait Mike, thank you! Your program has already opened up a whole new world for me & I'm immensely grateful!

[mikestar13]

LeiLei's chart:

Code: Select all

 +-------------12Sc05-----------23Li34-----------00Li03--------------+
 |                |Ve 26Li24 01°49'|                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |Ur 20Li19 25°19'|Me 25Vi04 25°34'|
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |Ma 17Li47 21°23'|Su 19Vi44 20°17'|
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |Ne 21Sc33 14°03'|                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |Mo 28Sc57 21°53'|                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |Pl 22Vi04 04°20'|                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 02Sg48-----------+----------------+----------------+-----------21Le48
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |Sa 14Le33 26°43'|
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |             LeiLei              |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |              Natal              |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |     7 Oct 1978 15:35:00 EDT     |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |         Decatur, GA USA         |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |      33N46'26" 084W17'46"       |Ju 10Cn59 04°47'|
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |           UT 19:35:00           |                |
 04Cp36-----------+                                 +-----------04Cn36
 |                |         RAMC 225°32'40"         |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |          OE 23°26'23"           |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |   Ep 18Cp38    |         SVP 05Pi33'25"          |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |         Sidereal Zodiac         |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |         Campanus Houses         |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |            * * * * *            |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 21Aq48-----------+----------------+----------------+-----------02Ge48
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |Er 19Pi44 04°28'|                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
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 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 +-------------00Ar03-----------23Ar34-----------12Ta05--------------+


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
Mo 28Sc57'24" 05N15 +14°00' 263°05' 18S02 139°25' +27°03' 321°53'   4% B
Su 19Vi44'13" 00N00 + 0°59' 193°03' 05S36 224°19' +40°04' 230°17'   6% B
Me 25Vi03'31" 00N36 + 1°41' 198°14' 07S05 217°33' +41°38' 235°34'   1% B
Ve 26Li23'55" 06S14 + 0°22' 226°36' 23S59 178°51' +32°14' 271°49'  99% F
Ma 17Li46'45" 00S14 + 0°41' 219°42' 15S43 187°22' +40°12' 261°23'  81% F
Ju 10Cn59'09" 00N19 + 0°08' 127°52' 19N13 290°10' + 4°29' 184°47'  94% F
Sa 14Le32'55" 01N32 + 0°07' 161°10' 09N37 263°42' +26°34' 206°43'  47%  
Ur 20Li18'39" 00N21 + 0°03' 222°24' 15S56 183°58' +40°12' 265°19'  94% F
Ne 21Sc32'55" 01N25 + 0°01' 254°57' 21S18 148°44' +28°13' 314°03'  16% B
Pl 22Vi03'32" 16N34 + 0°02' 201°34' 08N49 227°00' +56°42' 244°20'   5% B
Er 19Pi44'07" 19S42 - 0°01'  20°44' 12S33  52°43' -59°01'  64°28'   5% B
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects         Class 2 Aspects         Class 3 Aspects     
Mo sq Su 01°36' 95% M     Mo sx Me 03°54' 71%       Mo co Ne 07°24' 43% 
Su sx Ne 01°49' 94%       Su co Me 05°19' 70%       Mo sx Pl 06°54' 14% 
Su co Pl 02°19' 94%       Me sx Ne 03°31' 76%       Ve co Ma 08°37' 24% 
Su op Er 00°00'100%       Me op Er 05°19' 70%       Ma sq Ju 06°48' 17% 
Me co Pl 03°00' 90%       Ve co Ur 06°05' 61%       Sa sq Ne 07°00' 12% 
Ve sq Ju 02°58' 83% M     Ma sx Sa 03°14' 80%                           
Ma co Ur 02°32' 93%       Sa sx Ur 05°46' 39%                           
Ne sx Pl 00°31' 99%                                                     
Ne tr Er 01°49' 94%                                                     
Pl op Er 00°08'100% M                                                   
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Cosmic State                              
Mo Sc- B | sq Su 01°36'M  sx Me 03°54'   co Ne 07°24'   sx Pl 06°54'   
         | =  As/Mc 07'   =  Ma/Ju 26'   
Su Vi  B | op Er 00°00'   sq Mo 01°36'M  sx Ne 01°49'   co Pl 02°19'   
         | co Me 05°19'   
         | =  Mo/Ju 14'   =  Sa/Mc 41'   =  Ve/Sa 44'   
Me Vi+ B | Su Vi+
         | co Pl 03°00'   sx Ne 03°31'   sx Mo 03°54'   co Su 05°19'   
         | op Er 05°19'   
Ve Li+ F | Mo Sc- Su Vi-
         | sq Ju 02°58'M  co Ur 06°05'   co Ma 08°37'   
         | =  Mo/Me 37'   =  Mo/Pl 53'   
Ma Li  F | Mo Sc+
         | co Ur 02°32'   sx Sa 03°14'   co Ve 08°37'   sq Ju 06°48'   
Ju Cn  F | sq Ve 02°58'M  sq Ma 06°48'   
         | =  Me/Ve 15'   
Sa Le    | sx Ma 03°14'   sx Ur 05°46'   sq Ne 07°00'   
         | =  Me/As 17'   =  Su/Ju 49'   =  Ju/Er 49'   
Ur Li  F | co Ma 02°32'   co Ve 06°05'   sx Sa 05°46'   
         | =  Su/Ne 20'   =  Ne/Er 20'   =  Ma/Mc 22'   
Ne Sc  B | Su Vi-
         | sx Pl 00°31'   sx Su 01°49'   tr Er 01°49'   sx Me 03°31'   
         | co Mo 07°24'   sq Sa 07°00'   
Pl Vi  B | op Er 00°08'M  sx Ne 00°31'   co Su 02°19'   co Me 03°00'   
         | sx Mo 06°54'   
         | =  Su/Me 20'   =  Me/Er 20'   
Er Pi  B | op Su 00°00'   op Pl 00°08'M  tr Ne 01°49'   op Me 05°19'   
         | =  Mo/Ju 14'   =  Sa/Mc 41'   =  Ve/Sa 44'   
As Cp    | =  Mo/Ju 14'   =  Ma/Pl 19'   =  Su/Ur 26'   =  Ur/Er 26'   
         | =  Sa/Mc 41'   =  Ve/Sa 44'   =  Su/Ma 50'   =  Ma/Er 50'   
Mc Li    | =  Ve/Ur 13'   =  Mo/Ju 14'   =  Me/Ne 16'   =  Ma/Pl 19'   
         | =  Su/Ur 26'   =  Ur/Er 26'   =  Sa/Mc 41'   =  Ve/Sa 44'   
         | =  Mo/Su 47'   =  Mo/Er 47'   =  Su/Ma 50'   =  Ma/Er 50'   
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[LeiLei]

This is awesome Mike! The Cosmic State really changes everything. Very

[LeiLei]

Will there, more often than not, be aspects in one's natal chart that reflects childhood hardship, whether it be loss, negligence or abuse? Looking at my own chart I have Mars widely angular in a Class 2 sextile with Saturn but that seems a little weak in describing what I experienced.

Editing to add: I don't have my parents birth times, I really wish I did. It's interesting though that my MC is in Libra where my father had his Saturn & my IC in Aries is where my mother had her Mars. My mother is also a Capricorn Sun where I have my ASC. So I suppose these factors are a bit revealing but only by knowing certain factors of my parents charts. (there's more to it that I'll share in my next post)

A more obvious example of childhood hardship is my friend's chart that I posted about in the synastry section. Her childhood struggles are very obvious to me with her angular Moon-Saturn & Sun-Saturn aspects. She also has a Mars-Neptune square & a Class 2 Mars-Saturn opposition. Doesn't get more descriptive than that.

That leaves me with perhaps a far reaching (and very possibly wrong) thought. If one's natal chart isn't very descriptive of childhood abuse (without seeing the parents charts as well) could that mean that the child eventually triumphs over the abuse? Yet someone with many aspects detailing childhood abuse might mean they continue to struggle/suffer with it well into adulthood?

[Jim Eshelman]

Will there, more often than not, be aspects in one's natal chart that reflects childhood hardship, whether it be loss, negligence or abuse? Looking at my own chart I have Mars widely angular in a Class 2 sextile with Saturn but that seems a little weak in describing what I experienced.

Usually, yes. It's complicated because the natal chart doesn't show events per se, even though it shows the kind of experience to which your psyche most naturally responds and these sometimes are the same thing.

Or, to put it differently, the natal chart shows the person you are most naturally suited to become and - therefore necessarily - the kind of circumstances that would mold and shape that kind of person.

Another place where it gets complicated: In simple terms, one can often see an preponderance of benefics as meaning a blessed life and a preponderance of malefics as meaning a life of struggle and hardship. However, that's not exactly right. It's truer to say that a preponderance of benefics shows someone most naturally suited to a blessed life (which, of course, works great if they're born rich etc.). Someone born into privilege and money with a preponderance of malefics may show someone that works hard and strives hard despite (or supported by) having opportunity, but will always have a kind of dissatisfaction and disagreeableness because they're really made for a more brutal, competitive, struggling life. They need to find a way to have that.

In your case, simple rules don't seem to apply. You have three benefics closest to your angles The simple rule (too simple, but more often right than not) would be to expect that you'd have a very comfortable, supportive, blessed life. From things you've said, I don't think that was the case. I can't even take the easy way out and say you were better suited for a comfortable, privileged life and therefore not tough enough to easily survive a rough one - because you strike me as scrappy, tough, and surviving.

So... having answered your question in principle rather than particulars... I need to take a closer look at your chart. Pulling out the TMSA copy...

First, infancy and very early life is especially shown by Moon. (The chart as a whole but, within that, especially Moon.) Yours is in Scorpio in the immediate background - not a good placement for Moon yet especially granting that scrappiness I mentioned. Your Moon's aspects are good on balance, since the main one is the strong, vital, self-determining mundane square to Sun. (It's only other reasonably close aspect is to Mercury.)

Still, the chart seems overall blessed. Venus is dignified and most closely angular, with Uranus and Jupiter the next most angular planets. Jupiter is exalted. Considering orb, aspect type, and angularity, your close Venus-Jupiter (Libra to Cancer) mundane square is easily your strongest aspect, while the Ve/Ur midpoint is only 13' from MC along with the Mo/Su midpoint (47'). This is all fundamentally positive and strong.

Virgos are more vulnerable to abuse than maybe any other sign, though that's stronger with Virgo Moon than Sun. Moon-Pluto aspects are acutely vulnerable to victimization of different kinds unless they live an intentionally vivid life, but your main Pluto is to your Sun.

So, candidly, I wouldn't have concluded from your chart that you'd have a childhood of more hardship, negligence, or abuse than the people around you. (Did you? I don't know the area where you grew up. Are these things more the rule than the exception with people closest around you in your childhood community?)

Seeing your Scorpio Moon and knowing you came probably from more Appalachian than Deep South stock (is this true?), I'd definitely have gotten the scrappiness - the Virgo-Scorpio clever, strategic, creative mind dealing with circumstances. From background Moon, I'd expect less adaptability and malleability, though. Sun-Pluto (and a background Sun) seems more ready to go hide than to either correct or confront the problem.

At most, I see indirect indications. Background Sun sextile Neptune shows some sort of ego-weakness or being lost and confused. A close, foreground Mars-Uranus conjunction can show conflicts in the environment, especially with authority figures. (I think Mars-Uranus kids are told to go cut someone a switch more often than most others.)

Midpoints to your Ascendant (which I value less than some of my colleagues but still consider important) show a "difficult child" - much better as an adult, and not likely to be treated well by strict or controlling parents. Your Ascendant touches the direct midpoints Mars/Pluto, Sun/Uranus, and Sun/Mars - quite an antiauthority set!

Your Novien doesn't even have problems that stand out. Yes, natal Saturn squares Novien Neptune (more likely fueling your artistic creativity more than anything else) but mostly it's positive though rebellious, e.g. the most important contact is Novien Moon 0°18' from square natal Uranus. There is also natal Venus to Novien Sun, natal Jupiter to Novien Mars, hardly what you'd call a rough chart. Even if we stretch the orbs a bit to allow natal Mars square Novien Moon, this isn't much different from your natal Scorpio Moon.


I don't know if any of this has been useful. I'm interested in how the chart expectations I mentioned actually compare to your experience.

PS - One (at least!) of my respected colleagues would, in a second, say that your Capricorn Ascendant shows a hard early life and a path of struggle. I don't find Ascendant's sign that important, surely not in framing the whole experience of one's early life. Nonetheless, I thought I'd mention something that runs contrary to my thinking.

[LeiLei]

Thank you Jim. I think everything you said is very useful. I edited my post to add a bit more info & another question. I realize I'm not very forthcoming about my life & how it's reflected in my natal. That's not very useful on this site to say the least so I am preparing several posts that I hope will be helpful. First though, I want to add a little info about how my chart is connected to my dad's. It's just the tip of the iceberg but I think it describes my experiences rather well.

My dad: September 1, 1955, Atlanta, Ga, Birth time unknown. Birth time isn't needed to notice his Sun & Venus conjunction exactly on my Saturn (I spoiled his party) with his Mars about 5°out. Then his Saturn is on my MC & Uranus straddling my Venus & Mars. It's no wonder it was hard for us to get along. My dad could be absolutely brutal but I do believe he loved me. We shared some commonalities that may have helped soften our otherwise harsh connections. I have no doubt, however, that his treatment towards me caused me to be very distrustful of other men & an inability to be vulnerable. I would say there was a lack of protection on the part of both of my parents as a theme.

Also both of my parents worked full-time & made rather good money. I was absolutely spoiled in terms of material possessions. Apart from my bedroom I had an entire playroom filled to the brim with all matter of toys. Plenty of family vacations several times a year. I was also a daycare child & was often the last child to be picked up at night after all the lights were turned off & the staff was ready to go home. Staring out the window waiting for my mother to pick me up is a vivid memory.

Lastly I grew up in Atlanta, first 2-3 years in Decatur before moving to Stone Mountain.

[Jim Eshelman]

That leaves me with perhaps a far reaching (and very possibly wrong) thought. If one's natal chart isn't very descriptive of childhood abuse (without seeing the parents charts as well) could that mean that the child eventually triumphs over the abuse? Yet someone with many aspects detailing childhood abuse might mean they continue to struggle/suffer with it well into adulthood?

Even if the natal chart DOES show childhood hardship, the person can triumph over it. A stunning case is Oprah Winfrey, whose chart is most marked by a partile (all within 0°12') Sun-Venus conjunction in Capricorn square Saturn. (BTW, she has Moon in Scorpio in the immediate background like you.) - BTW the astrologer I mentioned who would use your Capricorn rising as an explanation for hardship has also written that Oprah's Sagittarius Ascendant is the mark of her prosperity. I think this is misleading since Sun in Capricorn has such a clear pattern of its own and the Sun-Venus-Saturn is simply terrible (even though Venus-Saturn by itself is part of the signature for acquiring great wealth). - Again, mentioned just to be ecumenical about points of view.

The parents' charts are definitely a factor to consider, though "my parents' charts interact with mine horribly" always strike me as a different quality than "my chart shows early hardship." I agree they can come out much the same, at least in simple ways. For example, my father's Moon-Saturn opposition was along my meridian, his angular Mars exactly on my Mercury and 2° from Saturn. My relationship with him was mostly bad. However, my natal chart doesn't show a difficult upbringing per se. (I'm more inclined to say it shows me being a bit of a problem, plus it shows me likely being an enigma to Dad.) My experience wasn't that I had a difficult childhood: It only seems that way as an adult when compared to my vastly different adult life.

[LeiLei]

Even if the natal chart DOES show childhood hardship, the person can triumph over it.

Yeah I probably didn't word my question very well. I more meant the suffering/loss they experienced in childhood is more likely to linger in their psyches whether they're successful in other ways or not. When I saw my friend's chart I immediately felt worried for her & that's what made me think of mine & having a lack of those indicators & why that would be. Of course our experiences were different though, I need to remember that. I think her experience was a lack of warmth & affection while mine was very fire & brimstone intermingled with a twisted sort of love & affection.

Of course my experiences still linger in my psyche even with me saying all of this. I guess the difference is I continued to confront my parents about their treatment & eventually broke off all contact with my mother. By doing so it enabled me to look at things differently, in a much more detached way. I am still trying to rewire my brain to think that I am someone of value & that I actually do have good traits though. I'm working on it.

[SteveS]

LeiLei, I can offer something I learned before I was introduced to Sidereal Astrology that may explain with better focus-- astrologically WHY you have felt inhibited with major relationships in your life. This has to do with the German Schools of Astrology labeled "Cosmobiology" involving their teachings with Midpoints.

When we look at your Natal Chart through the lens of Sidereal Astrology, as Jim pointed out, we see both benefices Venus & Jupiter in the immediate foreground. When I first started learning astrology, I came into close contact with Robert Hand who was a disciple of the German Schools of Astrology. I asked him to sum-up for me in one sentence what he thought was the most important astrological function he learned from his scholarly work with Cosmobiology, and he told me that was easy. He said that any Direct Midpoint in a Natal Chart involving our personal points (Sun, Moon, Angles) should be treated as a major aspect in the Natal. I have found this to be true in my work, particularly when on the surface of a Natal Chart there are no conventional aspects which explains to the astrologer major life experiences with their Natal Charts.

Using Natal Midpoints we can immediately see with your Natal a clear Natal Signature—a Direct Midpoint of Venus/Uranus = MC (0,12). Using Sidereal Astrology there is no doubt the major planetary theme of your Natal Chart is Venus being in mundo 1,49 conjunct your MC. The Cosmobiologist considered the MC the most important power point of a Natal Chart because their teachings believed traditionally the MC had much to do with the Native’s objectives in life. Obviously your Natal Venus has much to do with your objectives in life (more so with most native's natal Venus) has much to do with love and close relationships.

Robert Hand would always start his Midpoint analysis with the MC looking for any Direct Midpoints involving the personal points. Here are the Direct Midpoints involving the personal points of your Natal MC:

Mo/Su = MC 0,46
Saturn/Asc = MC 1,00

Robert Hand would immediately begin his Natal interpretation with the above two Direct Midpoints to your Natal MC. Let’s take Ebertin’s COSI book and quote the tones of the above two Direct Midpoints, remembering that the main planetary theme of your Natal Chart using Sidereal Astrology is Venus (love/close relationships).

Mo/Su = MC:

A harmonious soul life, individual attitude to friendship and marriage. The consummation of marriage.

Saturn/AS = MC:

Difficult growth of individual expression, the inclination to feel depressed, oppressed, inhibited, frustrated or slighted by others. Suffering from other people’s actions, gaining experience. Emotional suffering through separation, the misfortune to be hindered in the fulfilment of one’s objectives in life.

It is my belief that the above Direct Midpoint of Saturn/AS = MC astrologically explains WHY you have experience the malefic things in your life pertaining to close love relationships (Venus). In other words: Robert Hand would have considered the Direct Midpoint of your Natal SA/AS = MC as a major aspect for your life.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Hi Leilei,

you may like to read the following paragraphs on your Saturn placement and see whether that's true for yourself. Since Jim has written about it I always look at the house placement of Saturn.
Your Saturn is in the 7th house.

Here is the link:

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 753#p14753
3. Saturn. While my primary focus has been on luminary and stellium house occupancy to look for persistent themes, I've lately been drawn to look at someone's Saturn house first, and been surprised at how simply dead-on this has been, consistent with the story approach. Think of the Saturn house (for this experiment) as (a) where you have been blocked or held back all of your life, but especially (b) where you unconsciously take for granted that you are and will be blocked, held back - whether that's objectively true or (even if objectively true) whether it is necessarily true. So many people lately have described themselves to me in these terms without having knowledge of their charts from which to derive this. It's your story about that part of your life.

Regards, Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

Saturn/Asc = MC 1,00

Steve, I keep missing that in LeiLei's chart because of a rounding error. (I actually looked for midpoints in the above and mentioned some I saw.) Probably because of slightly different longitude and latitude, TMSA shows that as 61' (and then there's a rounding error: I have to set allowed orb at 62' to see it LOL).

And, of course, even if 1° were a hard cut-off (orbs don't work that way), a 5-10 second difference in the birth time would bring this in bounds - surely a small difference not out of the question.

I agree that this is the strongest indicator of difficult early life environment in the chart, especially because Sa/As (in contrast to Sa/MC) seems to apply to Saturn in the surroundings, in the environment, etc. Also, though, the mix of midpoints suddenly takes on a different tone with this addition. I had previously seen three partile direct midpoints to her MC:

Ve/Ur 13'd Me/Ne 16'd Mo/Su 47'd

I mentioned Venus/Uranus and Moon/Sun, then didn't dwell on Mercury/Neptune because (for the immediate question) it wasn't a signal of hardship per se - given the MIX of midpoints, I thought it gave some anxiety but mostly found an outlet through her artwork.

But, aha! Adding Sa/As to that Me/Ne gives us an entirely different blend!

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I agree that this is the strongest indicator of difficult early life environment in the chart, especially because Sa/As (in contrast to Sa/MC) seems to apply to Saturn in the surroundings, in the environment, etc. Also, though, the mix of midpoints suddenly takes on a different tone with this addition. I had previously seen three partile direct midpoints to her MC:

Exactly Jim. Another way of expressing only her Direct Midpoints involving her MC are:
Sa/AS = Ve/Ma = Me/Ne = Ve/Ma = Mo/Sun = MC
Never have I seen so many Direct Midpoints involved with the clear signature of her surface Natal Chart for the angularity of Ve/Ur = MC. The Cosmobiologist’s considered the Mo/Su midpoint as the most important midpoint in a Natal with careful analysis, probably because they looked upon this midpoint has having much to do with “husband and wife, parents.” Ebertin offers for negative manifestations of Mo/Su:

Disharmony between parents or partners, differences caused by inner tensions, dissatisfaction and the ensuing difficulties.

Because of the Sa/AS = MC Direct Midpoint Cosmobiologist’s would consider LeiLei to run into much difficulties with the important symbolism of Mo/Su = MC Direct Midpoint. Also I think Flo made an excellent observation pertaining to your observation about how important the House placement of Saturn is with Natal’s---with Saturn being placed in her 7th House of close relationships.
Jim wrote:

But, aha! Adding Sa/As to that Me/Ne gives us an entirely different blend!

Indeed Jim! We see all the potential malefics---Mars-Saturn-Neptune involved with the most potent cosmic structure of her MC with all of these Direct Midpoints. We also see all of the personal points of her Natal involved with her MC.

[LeiLei]

Hi Leilei,

you may like to read the following paragraphs on your Saturn placement and see whether that's true for yourself. Since Jim has written about it I always look at the house placement of Saturn.
Your Saturn is in the 7th house.

Here is the link:

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... 753#p14753
3. Saturn. While my primary focus has been on luminary and stellium house occupancy to look for persistent themes, I've lately been drawn to look at someone's Saturn house first, and been surprised at how simply dead-on this has been, consistent with the story approach. Think of the Saturn house (for this experiment) as (a) where you have been blocked or held back all of your life, but especially (b) where you unconsciously take for granted that you are and will be blocked, held back - whether that's objectively true or (even if objectively true) whether it is necessarily true. So many people lately have described themselves to me in these terms without having knowledge of their charts from which to derive this. It's your story about that part of your life.

Regards, Flo

Hi Flo! This is very interesting, thank you for sharing. I've been reflecting on it for the last couple of days. My parents offered conditional love based on my total obedience. So true unconditional love, the recognition that I was a person separate from them & the acceptance of that fact, was blocked. In turn, I then withheld my true being from romantic partners, never allowing myself to be at ease & vulnerable, thereby blocking true intimacy. And then 11 years ago I completely halted even the possibly of romance by deciding I would never be in another romantic relationship again in my life. It should be noted that I've only experienced this blockage with family members who held authority over me & romantic relationships. I was blessed when it came to friendships & maybe that's the saving grace of having Jupiter foreground & also in my 7th house.

It's also telling that there might be something to houses, however trivial, in that my Sun-Pluto-Mercury conjunction is in my 8th house. Reading Jim's notes on the 8th house & existential confrontation helped me to recall that Saturn aspected my Sun during both my boyfriend's death & my father's death. I know Saturn to Sun transits are difficult 'as is' but I find this interesting nonetheless. For reference: Boyfriend's death - 1°35' square, October 8, 2003 SSR, Decatur GA. Father's death - 1°11' conjunction, November 9, 2010 SLR, Oriental NC & 0°09' November 23, 2010 DSLR, two days after his death, Decatur, GA.

[Jim Eshelman]

"...total obedience... authority..." The other day when I was analyzing your chart from a hardship perspective, the things that kept appearing (in multiple ways, as a primary feature of the chart) is that you wouldn't take well to authority and control. I barely touched on that because you were talking abuse and I didn't want to say anything that (being written on a forum instead of in-person conversation) could have been mistaken for "it was your fault."

It was pretty clear, though, that you weren't created to be sweet, obedient, well-behaved little girl and that your parents likely wouldn't easily tolerate anything else.

[LeiLei]

"...total obedience... authority..." The other day when I was analyzing your chart from a hardship perspective, the things that kept appearing (in multiple ways, as a primary feature of the chart) is that you wouldn't take well to authority and control. I barely touched on that because you were talking abuse and I didn't want to say anything that (being written on a forum instead of in-person conversation) could have been mistaken for "it was your fault."

It was pretty clear, though, that you weren't created to be sweet, obedient, well-behaved little girl and that your parents likely wouldn't easily tolerate anything else.

This is exactly so. Most of my punishments came from me simply disagreeing with them. Which I thought was ridiculous & I would only argue further. Without going to find it, I know I've read something about Uranus & incompetent control. I think this was the major issue I had with them. Their own behavior didn't mirror what they tried to instill in me & this made no logical sense to me. Why would they expect a certain behavior from a child when they, the adults, didn't even practice the behavior themselves? My parents were pretty wild, lots of loud partying when I was little. They also had crazy knock-down drag-out fights. Screaming, crashing, breaking things. They didn't exactly set a great example. Of course my situation isn't unique & many children have fared far worse. I guess the difference was I wasn't going to suffer in silence.

You said something on an earlier post that I meant to comment on, that Mars-Uranus types are more likely to have to cut a switch. Too true, only it was a leather belt instead. And it was excessive. My parents would often remark that they needed to remember to calm down before inflicting their punishments (beatings) on me. It still blows my mind that they could speak those words without really ever reflecting on what they meant. I will never understand people that think inflicting pain is an effective tool for control. The only thing their punishments served to do was to create hostility & resentment. They didn't tame my fire, they stoked the flames.

I don't think it was my fault, I do think it was meant to be. I was meant to shake things up & to always be the odd one out. Even with friends I never conformed to any one group. Which was actually pretty cool since I was able to be friends with a variety of personalities. I'm even farther on the outskirts now & I wonder if I'll ever find a community that I can really be myself with. But that's okay, I think it's all part of the plan. Everything that happens in our lives, good or bad, is absolutely essential for whatever comes next.

Funny, I just remembered I was born in rebellion. I was totally stubborn even in the womb. Of course this is my mother's account but apparently I was born nearly a month late. During my delivery she had to have a blood transfusion, I started to go into heart failure & finally the doctor had to pull me out with forceps. It's like I was announcing "I am Instability & it's all topsy-turvy from here!"

[LeiLei]

Thank you for all of your feedback, it really helps me broaden my otherwise narrow view on this topic.

I was erroneously equating my childhood to simply my relationship with my parents. While there was some dark stuff that happened in my teen years outside the home, I can still clearly see my foreground Venus & Jupiter active in my early life. There was no shortage of friends or opportunities, I did well in school, was very athletic & enjoyed playing many sports. There was also a very large wooded area directly behind my house with trails, creeks, & meadows. I would enjoy this area with friends but mostly it was my refuge, a place where I could let my imagination soar & delight in fantasy. It was this spectacular woodland that prompted me to move to the country when my son was little so he too could enjoy that level of freedom & adventure. So there was a lot of saving grace in my childhood & I have a lot to be grateful for. I guess my trip into my past needed to begin with the hard stuff first before I could remember the great stuff.

I have no doubt that living with my father's Saturn on my MC plus our other aspects hardened me up for tough stuff down the road. But since he's gone now & can't speak for himself, I want to make it known that it wasn't all bad. Those sports I enjoyed playing? He taught me how. And he was kind & patient in his methods. I think as a Leo Sun, he needed above all else to be needed & appreciated. When he was, he was in top form. Wonderful to be around, full of humor, & just plain fun. He was also a great cook & he would love it when I would call him asking for advice on a recipe. And I think he knew he had so deeply fractured our relationship with his violent temper that it would never be tender & loving - what I think deep down he truly wished for. With my sister he took a very different approach when she hit her preteen years (when the bulk of our problems began in our own relationship). He was older & wiser so that helped I'm sure & I'm also sure if I was able to compare their charts I would see more intimate connections. He was also a wonderful influence for my son, would call him frequently & when we visited or when my son went to stay with them a while, they were always joined at the hip. Being a single mother, having my father be such a special part of my son's life was an enormous blessing.

I had written a long paragraph about my mother, master manipulator extraordinaire, but I'm a bit over all the parent stuff so I think I'll hold off. Plus the way our charts stack up completely confounds me so without her birth time I'm really at a loss. If I had only two words to describe her they would be insidious & covert so I guess it's fitting she stay hidden in the shadows.

Oh a delightful note, after having my longest painter's block I've ever had, I was able to have a solid & wonderful painting session yesterday. I used to think two weeks was a long time to go without painting but it has been several months. I don't know if it's something to do with Uranus opp my MC but I'll take it!

[SteveS]

Thanks LeiLei for being so open with your life's story and keep painting as much as possible. Your Natal has been a very interesting chart from a standpoint of your sorrows in life with certain relationships. Keep enjoying those wooded areas, raw nature is a great healer on many different levels.

[mikestar13]

LeiLei, I would add my thanks to Steve's. Thank you both for trusting us enough to share and for providing a highly instructive example.

[LeiLei]

Thank you Steve & Mike. I really do have a hard time opening up, I often have 'writer's remorse', I'll feel silly over what I've written or worried that I've over shared. Then I have to steel myself to not delete them. But I remind myself that life isn't always about feeling comfortable & maybe I need to feel silly. And maybe I am silly & that's not a bad thing!

I really appreciate everyone's encouragement & I plan to share more soon. Rather than focusing on my surrounding circumstances I'd like to discuss how I experience my foreground planets & my aspects internally & what force I put out into the world based on these energies. I think this might be an area where I can contribute a bit better. And I'm sharing this now because then I'll be more inclined to follow through. Slinking back into reclusion is all too easy! For this weekend though I plan to have a brush in my hand as much as possible!