Book of World Horoscopes

[ABC]

By Nick Campion....Had to buy it used could not afford it new...Anyone got it or ever used it?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

That's a book of "birthcharts" for different countries. Some people use those instead of ingresses, and some in addition to them. You can use the charts for solar and lunar returns as well as transits, just like a birthchart.

Jim's book is about ingresses although a lot of the interpretation transfers. I just want you to understand it's a different kind of mundane. This is a well-researched and valuable book to have.

[Jim Eshelman]

I never felt like spending the money for it. - While national charts have some importance, I don't find in practice that they are (say) even one-fifth as important as the Sidereal ingresses.

[ABC]

I never felt like spending the money for it. - While national charts have some importance, I don't find in practice that they are (say) even one-fifth as important as the Sidereal ingresses.

Jim you can get it used pretty cheap off Amazon..The hardback new is $500+! And the paperback is over $50! I did not pay anywhere near either one of those..Less than $40!

[ABC]

That's a book of "birthcharts" for different countries. Some people use those instead of ingresses, and some in addition to them. You can use the charts for solar and lunar returns as well as transits, just like a birthchart.

Jim's book is about ingresses although a lot of the interpretation transfers. I just want you to understand it's a different kind of mundane. This is a well-researched and valuable book to have.

How is it different?

[Jim Eshelman]

How is it different?

I don't think I've ever articulated that but I'll give it a try.

Let's look at practical observation first, independent of theory: If you take a series of similar events in, say, U.S. history and compare it to the primary U.S. horoscope (such as the start of war, the end of war, economic collapse, murder or other death of presidents), you can indeed see these in the transits, progressions, and Sidereal solar and lunar returns of the U.S. chart. (First: This requires we settle on the best U.S. chart. The one for July 4, 1776 that clearly stands head and shoulders above all the others is the Hazelrigg-George chart for 12:15 PM.) The events show with clear enough indicators. However, they show even more easily, even more clearly with the Sidereal ingresses.

No single example ever proves anything, but a pattern of many examples will show a really dramatic trend. For example, transits to the Declaration of Independence chart for 9/11 had one aspect, transiting Pluto opposite natal Uranus within 1°. That's descriptive of the event and the impact, but quite general. You do have to dig into other layers, other predictive techniques (and also look at it across the range of time) in order to get the full showing in the U.S. nativity. -- However, in contrast look at my analysis of the same event in Chapter 23 of Sidereal Mundane Astrology and you will see that it lays out in excruciating detail for Washington and NYC. (Just one of dozens to hundreds of possible examples.)

A digression: There is a characteristic of using such birth charts of nations that is sometimes an advantage, sometimes a disadvantage. It is that there are often multiple conceivable birth charts for different layers of the "birth" of a country. For example, the Declaration of Independence chart seems the central chart for the U.S. and especially describes the heart and soul of the nation, it's character, and most of the primary events. But the July 6, 1775 chart for the original declaration of war on England seems especially to describe our wars and conflict. The chart for the adoption of the Constitution seems to respond for events involving the structure and operation of the government (and many find so useful as to consider it the best U.S. chart overall). The chart for the first opening of the U.S. Supreme Court has been used by some to monitor trends in the court. And each presidential administration has a chart for its commencement that has been highly responsive for more major events of that administration than not.

This is an advantage to astrologers willing to work those individual charts in detail, study them separately, and distinguish which slices of the nation are most likely affected by major developments in the core U.S. chart. It's a disadvantage, though, not only because it requires an enormous amount of additional work, but because it gives more opportunity to opportunistically "find" an astrological pattern that confirms your biases. (More data isn't always useful. Sometimes it's just white noise that lets you prove anything you want.)

Returning to the original question: The ingresses are independent of any construct such as a nation or a government. They show the primary psychological (including "event") forces on a specific geographic location at a specific point in time. We have learned from thousands of charts that when the location is a national capital, that location acts as a "hub" of the nation - the charts for Washington, DC affect the United States as a whole, those for Moscow affect Russia as a whole, etc. (See the brief Chapter 6 in my book.)

With astonishing accuracy (certainly when compared to any other astrological technique), Sidereal ingresses have shown the ability to discern the primary energies operating at a specific place and at a specific time. Faithful description of the nature of an event while identifying a specific time and specific place is the reasonable basis for saying the technique showed the event. When forecasts for nations are concerned, "specific place" often starts as Washington and then also shows for a place in the country where it occurred. (Look, say, at the Columbine shooting to see, first, the event itself in Columbine and the impact on the community in the aftermath; then, separately, the impact on the nation as a whole from the same charts for Washington.)

[ABC]

As I understand it the July 4th 1776 chart is flawed because they never came up with an exact time..That coupled with the fact that US independence did not actually take place until Augist because it took them that long to get all the folks to sign it.

Ingresses too has I understand it failed to predict WW2. Some fellow named Charles I do not recall his last name said WW2 would not happen...it did..But then again thats like crossing the street you got a 50/50 shot at being hit by a car so what does it prove? The more I look into this stuff the more I am seeing ingress's as more of a hazard than a help. I am going to try and run a chart today my first one and see what happens.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

This is one of those subjects where everybody has an opinion, but nobody knows or can ever know for sure. I like Jim's approach - which chart(s) are supported by at least some evidence, which are realistic, and then which actually work. (Realistic... a chart for 5AM is not...)

[ABC]

This is one of those subjects where everybody has an opinion, but nobody knows or can ever know for sure. I like Jim's approach - which chart(s) are supported by at least some evidence, which are realistic, and then which actually work. (Realistic... a chart for 5AM is not...)

I agree with your realistic approach...But unless a valid time can be given how does that even make the chart accurate? The only real supporting evidence is we know the DOI is real and know they signed it.. So just to {nass} in some ones corn flakes again just what do you do when you have no solid time of the actual event? Make up a time? What? Not being sarcastic mind you just trying to get the facts straight.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Ingresses too has I understand it failed to predict WW2. Some fellow named Charles I do not recall his last name said WW2 would not happen...it did..

So one astrologer, whose name you don't know, got it wrong, and that condemns the entire method?
Um....

[ABC]

Ingresses too has I understand it failed to predict WW2. Some fellow named Charles I do not recall his last name said WW2 would not happen...it did..

So one astrologer, whose name you don't know, got it wrong, and that condemns the entire method?
Um....

Nope I did not say that...This is not an exact occult science like everything else in the occult it's likely wrong more than it's right...It's prophecy...So much of it is open ended anything can be inserted to make it look like the event was predicted by the prophet, astrologer whatever. In other words its a GUESS..And Hope your right especially if you have already broadcast it to the world. And as far as that unknown astrologer's last name I can get it if it will make you jump for frigging joy!

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Don't bother. I'm done here.

[ABC]

Don't bother. I'm done here.

Take your ball and go then...@Jim what is your opinion of the Sibly chart?

[Jim Eshelman]

As I understand it the July 4th 1776 chart is flawed because they never came up with an exact time..That coupled with the fact that US independence did not actually take place until Augist because it took them that long to get all the folks to sign it.

Whatever. It was an example. I'm not going to debate that with you on this thread. Note my wider point about national charts overall.

Ingresses too has I understand it failed to predict WW2.

"Failed to predict" is a misnomer because Sidereal ingresses weren't discovered until 1956-57. You are probably responding to something you read about Tropical ingresses which, in fact, are quite weak.

However, in hindsight, if you will look at Chapter 23 of my book Sidereal Mundane Astrology, you will see how the ingresses did indeed show various "start of World War II" events including Great Britain entering WW II (page 653) and Pearl Harbor (from three perspectives: Washington, Hawaii, Tokyo), in addition to other events of that war. For the start of WW II, the 1939 Cansolar, the stream of lunar ingresses, and the progressions of the Capsolar and Cansolar for London walked the event right up to the day England declared war.

The more I look into this stuff the more I am seeing ingress's as more of a hazard than a help. I am going to try and run a chart today my first one and see what happens.

Respectfully, it still seems you have gone though my book, meaning you probably don't know anything about the Sidereal solar and lunar ingresses.

[ABC]

Boy! You two cannot stand it when some one disagrees with you can you? And no is was ingresses I read about and they are the weak side..Bit you know it all.You act like that damn book is the answer to the worlds troubles!

[Jim Eshelman]

This is not an exact occult science like everything else in the occult it's likely wrong more than it's right...It's prophecy...So much of it is open ended anything can be inserted to make it look like the event was predicted by the prophet, astrologer whatever. In other words its a GUESS..And Hope your right especially if you have already broadcast it to the world.

For the 500+ major events studied in my book Sidereal Mundane Astrology, at minimum one (of up to two possible) solar ingresses AND one (of up to two possible) lunar ingresses AND one (of up to two possible) daily timing methods showed correct descriptive symbolism of the event 94% of the time. This, of course, is hindsight, but the necessary factors were in each of those charts to describe the nature of the event, the time of the event, and the place of the event).

Given the difference between hindsight and foresight, after spending several years looking backwards to see how this has been operating in the past, I started doing monthly U.S. predictions to test the methods of applying them forward. The results have been mostly accurate (and, of course, some mistakes). Several years of these remain on this site for you to look backwards and assess. Most recently, the circumstances of the pandemic were described in fair detail ahead of time (not that it would be a disease, just what the world and national experience and conditions would be) and isolated February 20, 2020 as the breaking point with losses and suffering began (the day the stock market ended an 11-year bear market and the world concurrently went into pandemic meltdown).

[Jim Eshelman]

Boy! You two cannot stand it when some one disagrees with you can you? And no is was ingresses I read about and they are the weak side..Bit you know it all.You act like that damn book is the answer to the worlds troubles!

Sure, people disagree with me all the time. I do expect some facts to go with the disagreement, though I don't know that the book is the answer to the world's troubles, but it is the answer to your original question about how we do mundane astrology here. It is the only book existing that describes how to use these tools (which correctly describe major events over 90% of the time).

You say it was ingresses you read about. However, again, you are failing to distinguish between ingresses in the Tropical zodiac and ingresses in the Sidereal zodiac. I think you must be reading about use of ingresses in the Tropical zodiac: I agree, these are weak at best (though the 1939 Summer Solstice chart for London wasn't bad). Ingresses in the Sidereal zodiac were discovered and put into use in 1956-57 so of course nobody used them in 1939.

[Jim Eshelman]

So much of it is open ended anything can be inserted to make it look like the event was predicted by the prophet, astrologer whatever.

This is a fair statement - especially the way astrology is usually practiced. - In fact, it's the thinking behind the approach most of use on this site of thinking less is better than more.

I thought you might be interested in two forecasts made here in advance of the pandemic hitting (with all of its collateral effects).

The first is my interpretation of Saturn passing through Capricorn, which began January 30, 2020. The thread gathering and analyzing historic data began in July 2019, then my final thoughts and forecast were posted January 19, 2020 when we still hadn't heard about Covid-19:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3344#p28419

The second i my interpretation of the 2020 Capsolar (the Master Chart of the Year occurring January 15, 2020. It was posted 12/13/2019. See the section "Long-Term (Solar Ingress) Patterns" on this page:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3714

In terms of the breaking point on February 20, 2020, here is my U.S. forecast for the period 2/20-3/18/2020, first posted 11/21/2019. Besides the repeat of the Long-Term section, I suggest you see two sections: (1) The first paragraph under "Medium-Term Patterns (The Bridge). (2) The Caplunar section, describing the one-month chart beginning 2/20.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3847