Sun IC line compared to sun square ascendant?

[rcooke13]

Are both of these influences the same thing? Can someone explain the differences, pros and cons to both? Is sun IC softer and more positive?

[Jim Eshelman]

No real difference.

[rcooke13]

I live under a sun square AC line now, and I do get a lot of attention in general (mostly good). Does that mean if I move to another place, that's on a sun ic line (like Savannah GA which looks solar), that it means I would have the same experiences with getting a lot of attention there too?

[Jim Eshelman]

Probably. There could be other factors also operative, meaning the "mix" of factors is different - but generally you can expect the same effect.

An angle is an angle. For example, I live where I have Venus angular. When I was in Sydney for a while, where I also have Venus angular, it was much the same in Venus and other matters.

[rcooke13]

I did read on this blog the differences between sun square ascendant and sun IC:

from Time Passages:

“With the Sun on the Ascendant, in this location your focus is on yourself and on the manifestation of your vital force. You may find that you have more courage and determination to actualize yourself here than in other parts of the world. What do you aspire to be and how will what you do serve this higher purpose? In this place you exude health and happiness, and you are inclined to meet life as an adventure. You radiate an energy that can also make you an attractive leader. If this site challenges your vitality, taking the challenge head-on brings rewards. You may find that here you grapple with your ego, encountering situations that evoke pride or shame, and that force you to take risks that lead to greater self-growth. Ultimately, events that take place here will help you learn to shine in the world. Your inner child can feel free to come out and play! Perhaps your best use of the leadership that comes naturally to you in this location is that you demonstrate to others how you glow from within in a way that inspires them and allows them to do the same for themselves.”

From Dan Furst:

“The Sun on the Ascendant line favors the projecting of one’s personal power and leadership into the outer environments of politics, business, and society, especially when the Sun in one’s birth chart is the ‘rising planet’ in the first house, close to the Ascendant line. This is why this Sun position, expressing as it does a desire to shine in this world, is often found in the charts of people who aspire to political and religious authority, and may actually achieve it. The possibilities of acclaim for one’s creative successes are high under this line, so it also carries the risks of all the prancing and preening that can come when the limelight has captured us.“

From Time Passages:

"With the Sun at the Nadir, you will find that this place feels like home to you, with a sense of familiarity that accompanies your steps while residing or even visiting here. You may also find that your life revolves around family concerns when you are in this location. You may feel far away from the hustle and bustle of the workaday world, experiencing a welcome sense of rest and relaxation. Ambitions and the concerns of public life may seem less pressing as you lean towards family or turn within yourself for guidance. You also might find you have plenty of time here to reflect on the past, and to deepen your sense of emotional security through meditation or journaling. If you wind up working here, it is likely that you become involved with family matters in some way, such as a family-based business, or perhaps in pursuing endeavors that have to do with land and real estate. Whether you find yourself engaging with family, repainting the your home or taking a workshop on the inner child, you will shine and get the most out of these parts when you fully engage with the personal and the private side of your complex nature."

Dan Furst’s “Finding Your Best Places” (2015):

“Sun lines can be ‘everything lines,’ unlike other planet lines that pertain mainly to power and money, health and learning and other specific areas of life, and the best example of a Sun line’s all-embracing sweep may be the Sun on the Nadir line, for it favors locations in which we are healthy, financially secure, happily partnered and socially prosperous, blessed by an active and loving circle of friends. As most people seek to enjoy all these advantages in later life this line is sometimes called, not so surprisingly, the Retirement Line.”

It looks like they think sun square ascendant is more about power and courage and force, ambition and success, and learning from your ego issues, and sun IC is not about those things, but just relaxing and being at peace with yourself.

Do you agree with these distinctions?

[Jim Eshelman]

FWIW, I disagree with all the quoted material you just posted. You can decide what to go with, of course.

[rcooke13]

I tried searching the forums here for your interpretation of the sun ic line but I didn't find anything. It would be helpful for me to read your interpretation. Do you have a forum post on this site that you can link me to so I can read it?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Just read Sun Angular. This isn't a general astrology forum where everything anybody has ever come up with over the centuries is covered, if only to say that's crap.

Trying to delineate the "lines" by house position isn't covered here because most of us think the evidence for it is thin. Very thin. You won't get pages and paragraphs delineating this stuff because there's just not that much to it.

[rcooke13]

What? I have no idea what your first sentence means. But it is off-putting. I did not ask for "a general astrology forum" nor did I ask for "everything anybody has come up with over the centuries".

I also didn't ask about house positions so again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

My question was about the Sun IC line, and Jim does believe in astrocartography. I don't think anyone here thinks evidence for the Sun IC line is "thin".

I was asking Jim anyway. If he doesn't have a post on it then he will just tell me.

[Jim Eshelman]

I tried searching the forums here for your interpretation of the sun ic line but I didn't find anything. It would be helpful for me to read your interpretation. Do you have a forum post on this site that you can link me to so I can read it?

There is essentially no difference between a planet being on one angle and a planet being on another angle.

This is especially true with relocation astrology, but it's mostly true with every level of astrology. There is little to no difference between locating where your Sun is on Ascendant vs. on Midheaven vs. on Descendant vs. on IC. As JSAD said, the main point is that SUN IS ANGULAR. It's a solar place. your Sun is much more freely expressed there than at other places.

To the very limited extent that the angle matters (as it sometimes seems to in solar and lunar returns), here is a post of theoretical distinctions copied from one of my books. I discourage you from taking them very seriously. (Notice that Sun in lower square to Asc is really Sun on Nadir.)
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=205

As an example of how un-seriously I take these I've lived 46 years in a place where I have Venus on IC. Of the four Venus interpretations given on the page I just linked, Venus on IC is the least descriptive of those 46 years, probably because it tries to hard to fit the idea of the angle. The words under Venus to Asc, MC, and Dsc fit my last 46 years well because they speak to more general things (and general Venus-themed things). There really isn't any difference which angle it's on or, if there is any at all, it is quite slight.

[rcooke13]

I'm about to read the link.
Just so I'm clear, when you say you discourage me from taking them seriously, are you talking about the Sun IC, DC, MC etc? And that the link you sent is the actual valid way of reading them? Or were you saying you don't take the link you sent me seriously? (this is a serious question, Im not being fictitious)

[Jim Eshelman]

The link will take you to theoretical interpretations distinguishing planet angularity by individual angle. The important word is THEORETICAL. It isn't backed by actual evidence. It was written because a publisher asked that I add that page to one of my books 40 years ago and I complied.

I discourage you from taking it too seriously because there is little-to-no difference between the angles. They are merely places of heightened planetary expression of "strength." In particular, I've never been able to find such distinctions working in natal relocation: While subtle differences can be tracked in a natal chart, the narrower conditions of a relocation chart seem to wash them away. For example, if somebody wants a happy marriage, you don't send them to a place where appropriate planets are on Descendant, you just send them somewhere that they have an unafflicted Venus angular. It's all about the planet, not the angle.

[rcooke13]

Last question, but am I correct in my assumption that Savannah, GA is a very solar place for me?

Or maybe not very solar, but solar?

[mikestar13]

I'm sure what Jim is saying is that an angle is a angle. Whether angle is the Asc, Dsc I MC, IC, Zenith, Nadir, East Point, or West Point is 99% irrelevant. Sun on one angle means exactly the same as Sun on another. Advanced astrologers may find the precise angle very slightly shades the meaning (perhaps to a 1% degree). Beginners and intermediates should ignore that 1% altogether.

Edit: I see Jim explained for himself (and better than I did) while I was writing.

[Jim Eshelman]

Last question, but am I correct in my assumption that Savannah, GA is a very solar place for me?

Or maybe not very solar, but solar?

Yes, it's a solar location. Your Sun is 2°13' from IC, which is pretty close. No other planets are angular for you there.

[rcooke13]

Last question, but am I correct in my assumption that Savannah, GA is a very solar place for me?

Or maybe not very solar, but solar?

Yes, it's a solar location. Your Sun is 2°13' from IC, which is pretty close. No other planets are angular for you there.

Ok, thank you for your help

[rcooke13]

I'm sure what Jim is saying is that an angle is a angle. Whether angle is the Asc, Dsc I MC, IC, Zenith, Nadir, East Point, or West Point is 99% irrelevant. Sun on one angle means exactly the same as Sun on another. Advanced astrologers may find the precise angle very slightly shades the meaning (perhaps to a 1% degree). Beginners and intermediates should ignore that 1% altogether.

Edit: I see Jim explained for himself (and better than I did) while I was writing.

This was helpful, thank you!

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

What? I have no idea what your first sentence means. But it is off-putting.

The first sentence says, and means, just read Sun Angular. There's a whole section delineating planets when they are angular. I don't understand how answering your question is "off-putting."

I also didn't ask about house positions so again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

The whole page you copied out your quotes from is all about delineating lines according to house position. When you ask for "differences" between the various angles, that's what you're asking about.

My question was about the Sun IC line, and Jim does believe in astrocartography. I don't think anyone here thinks evidence for the Sun IC line is "thin".

The Sun line, where the Sun is angular, is well documented. The "Sun IC" line, where the Sun means something particular because it's on the IC, is not and the evidence that any planet on any particular angle means something different from it being on any other angle is thin.

I was asking Jim anyway. If he doesn't have a post on it then he will just tell me.

Sun angular conj Moon.

[Jim Eshelman]

Sun angular conj Moon.

Annular solar eclipse on an angle, actually.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun angular conj Moon.

Annular solar eclipse on an angle, actually.

Even more so.

[rcooke13]

What? I have no idea what your first sentence means. But it is off-putting.

The first sentence says, and means, just read Sun Angular. There's a whole section delineating planets when they are angular. I don't understand how answering your question is "off-putting."

Your first sentence said more than just "read sun angular". It said more, so don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about.

Every time you respond to my posts you make unnecessary snarky commentary that doesn't help or add anything. Every time I see you comment on one of my posts I think to myself "ugh. Wonder what unneeded snarky comment they're gonna say now."

The Sun line, where the Sun is angular, is well documented. The "Sun IC" line, where the Sun means something particular because it's on the IC, is not and the evidence that any planet on any particular angle means something different from it being on any other angle is thin.

Others already explained this to me in a way that was helpful.

Sun angular conj Moon.

I *was* asking Jim for a helpful answer. That's a fact. My aspects has nothing to do with that fact.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Your first sentence said more than just "read sun angular". It said more, so don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about.

My first sentence said, and I quote:

Just read Sun Angular.

Four words.

I think you're objecting to my second sentence. I'm sorry you didn't understand what I said. Next time just say you're confused, and someone, maybe me, maybe someone else, will try to explain a different way.

If you don't know how to find Sun Angular, look at the very bottom right of this post for an ^. Click that and it will take you to the top of this thread.
You'll see a line that reads "Home Discussion "Many Things" with a little house in front of it. Click the house.
That will take you to the home page. You'll see there are several sections, the second of which is "Natal Astrology."
Scroll down and you'll see sections such as "Angularity" and "Aspects". Click on Angularity, scroll down past the first section and you'll find an entire thread labeled "Angular Sun Project" as well as a couple of threads asking if different angles have different expressions and several other subjects I'm sure will interest you.

[rcooke13]

Your first sentence said more than just "read sun angular". It said more, so don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about.

My first sentence said, and I quote:

Just read Sun Angular.

Four words.

I think you're objecting to my second sentence. I'm sorry you didn't understand what I said. Next time just say you're confused, and someone, maybe me, maybe someone else, will try to explain a different way.

If you don't know how to find Sun Angular, look at the very bottom right of this post for an ^. Click that and it will take you to the top of this thread.
You'll see a line that reads "Home Discussion "Many Things" with a little house in front of it. Click the house.
That will take you to the home page. You'll see there are several sections, the second of which is "Natal Astrology."
Scroll down and you'll see sections such as "Angularity" and "Aspects". Click on Angularity, scroll down past the first section and you'll find an entire thread labeled "Angular Sun Project" as well as a couple of threads asking if different angles have different expressions and several other subjects I'm sure will interest you.

Just read Sun Angular. This isn't a general astrology forum where everything anybody has ever come up with over the centuries is covered, if only to say that's crap.

I objected to the 25 more words after the 4 words in the above quote.

But anyway, thank you for the last bit of information. I will check out the link.