The Value--???--of the Lunar Return

[randallnyc]

Fagan once wrote he considered the SLR basically a health chart.

The late Rick Ostrander published a series of sidereal astrology newsletters back in the 1980s, printed on a dot-matrix printer and sold on a subscription basis. They were staple-affixed and sent via mail. They were great. Mine are gone.

I remember he stated in one issue that he stopped working with SLRs, saying events augured in the charts rarely, if ever occurred. He preferred only returns Solar based.

I am beginning to think he had a point.

[Jim Eshelman]

IIRC, Rick used birthplace for SLRs which, by itself, might explain his opinion.

"Basically a health chart" is, I think, an exaggeration unless you understand that by "health" is meant one's entire psych state, i.e., one's experience of the world.

FWIW, I don't know of any astrological technique that pegs things better than the SLR. It's stunning. Hundreds of fabulous examples are at hand.

[SteveS]

Randallnyc wrote:

I remember he stated in one issue that he stopped working with SLRs, saying events augured in the charts rarely, if ever occurred. He preferred only returns Solar based.

I can relate to this statement. I find most of my SLR's uneventful and of little use. But, IMO, when the SLR calculates "outstanding incident" criteria---they are absolutely outstanding charts to note. Do you know the criteria for "outstanding incident" return charts?

[Patrick Machado]

The consistent accuracy of my Lunar Returns was one of the main factors that led to my accepting the validity and reality of astrology. The "shift" from one cycle to another is quite distinctive. Noticeable related events don't always manifest, but the psychological environment reflected in the chart always does.

[SteveS]

I always pay close attention to close foreground planets (2-3 degrees), and really pay close attention to any SLR's with planets partile conjunct an angle. I am also beginning to believe Fagan's statement when an inner SLR planet is partile a natal planet---pay close attention no matter where on the wheel if falls. But again, its Jim's criteria for "outstanding incident" SLR's that I look for with my work with SLR's. I do realize psychological effects occur with our changing SLR's, but that is part of normal living. I want to see an "outstanding incident" benefic SLR that I can plan certain activity around, if I choose to do so.

[Jim Eshelman]

...Fagan's statement when an inner SLR planet is partile a natal planet...

I need to keep repeating it because false information keeps being repeated: Fagan did not qualify this as only inner planets. He wrote about all partile transits. This applies to Pluto as much as to Mercury.

[Jim Eshelman]

A recent example - a modest and simple SLR. My current return set yesterday, 9/20 at 6:10 am, with expectation (as always) that it would be operative beginning about 24 hours earlier. Almost the entire chart is an 0°08' Moon-Neptune conjunction within a degree of Descendant. (There is also a widely foreground Sun.)

By Sunday afternoon, the following had occurred:

(1) Due to double trials at our office and my hours zig-zagging from 4:30 AM to 7 AM on opposite days for two weeks, I was suddenly hit with all the accumulated exhaustion.

(2) I came up to our apartment from downstairs, hadn't locked the door when I ran down, and found the handle locked. (We never lock the handle, only the deadbolt.) Furthermore, my key didn't fit. Marion was out so I couldn't knock. I worked probably 15 minutes trying to work the key and get in, with frustration turning to anxiety, and then suddenly noticed - oops, I'd gone up one floor too far. I was trying to get into the apartment ABOVE ours. I went down one flight and walked in my own door just fine.

(3) A little later I did laundry. At the end of the wash (with an extra rinse), I found that the washer had stalled during the second rinse and all my clothes were sitting in a deep tub of (fortunately clean by then) water. Nothing the manager could do. I had enough coins for ONE dryer cycle which I knew wouldn't be enough. I needed the clothes for work at 4:30 the next morning. So I spent the next half hour hand-wringing everything, one item at a time, to toss in the dryer, digging through the water to find every last sock, then started the first cycle. (Eventually I get Marion on the phone and she got extra quarters on her way home.)

I submit that - while it could have been much, much worse - all of these are exact expressions of a foreground Moon-Neptune conjunction.

[SteveS]

I can understand how an outer planet like Pluto angular in a SLR partile 0,90,180 a Natal Planet is important and will manifest things for the SLR time period, but in my life I have seen most of the time when an outer planet is partile aspected to a Natal Planet manifested absolutely nothing without being angular in a SLR or SSR. For example: I have been living with t Pluto partile 180 my Natal Mars off/on for months with absolute no manifested symbolism, but when this same transit become angular in my SLR's, man--do I feel its power. Somewhere on this forum I produced an article by Fagan that Ken Bowser referenced which stated only on the day of a SLR when an inner (Mercury, Venus, Mars) SLR planet is partile a natal planet, no matter if it is not angular , the symbolism will manifest and become the main theme of the SLR, provided nothing else is angular in the SLR. I will try and find the article to post in this thread. I have found Fagan's words about these type SLR's to be true in a couple of my SLR's. Many times I have tracked transiting inner planets partile my natal planets produced no noticeable effects, but like I said, I have seen only on the day of a SLR the same transits not angular produce very noticeable effects. I don't understand why except Fagan must have notice something important pertaining to these type partile inner planet transits to a natal on the day of a SLR without being angular.

Just found Fagan's article:

Fagan wrote from one of his American Astrology articles:

Transits and the Lunar Return:
In regard to the more rapidly moving planets, their transits only become significant if they should closely configure the birth planets on the date of a lunar return. For example, if Mars should be in exact opposition, conjunction, or to a lesser extent, square the radical sun on the date of a lunar return there will be a liability of an accident, hurt or illness. Otherwise such a transit may pass without anything untoward occurring. So it is always advisable to note all the transits to the birth planets, especially to the natal moon, that are exact or nearly so, on the date of a lunar return for they are certain to be effective. Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits. Cyril Fagan

[Jim Eshelman]

I can understand how an outer planet like Pluto angular in a SLR partile 0,90,180 a Natal Planet is important and will manifest things for the SLR time period, but in my life I have seen most of the time when an outer planet is partile aspected to a Natal Planet manifested absolutely nothing without being angular in a SLR or SSR.

We're close to saying the same thing. While I regard all partile conjunctions, oppositions, or squares (ecliptical or mundane) to be valid in a lunar return, I never let these determine the essential nature of the time if they aren't foreground. They're just supplemental, filling in the blanks. I require myself to already determine the nature of month without them - just based on close aspects between/among foreground planets - and then, when that's done, look at the non-foreground partile aspects to see if they answer any remaining hanging questions. They may signify "backdrop" conditions that are in the background of one's life during the month (never going away but not defining te primary psychological tone of the time), or they may add small details to what one already knows.

For example: I have been living with t Pluto partile 180 my Natal Mars off/on for months with absolute no manifested symbolism, but when this same transit become angular in my SLR's, man--do I feel its power.

Yes, in that case it moved up from "backdrop circumstances" to defining the primary tone of a period.

Somewhere on this forum I produced an article by Fagan that Ken Bowser referenced which stated only on the day of a SLR when an inner (Mercury, Venus, Mars) SLR planet is partile a natal planet, no matter if it is not angular , the symbolism will manifest and become the main theme of the SLR, provided nothing else is angular in the SLR.

As I recall (and consistent with Fagan's other writings) his reference to "partile on the day" doesn't mean it reaches 0°00' orb on that exact day but, rather, that it is within 1°00' at the time of the SLR - and IIRC there was nothing in the article specifying that this was only Sun, Mercury, Venus etc. And I completely disagree that it becomes the main theme - like any other non-foreground partile aspect, it becomes a worthwhile supplemental feature, only to be consulted after you have already figured out what the chart mean

Just found Fagan's article:

Transits and the Lunar Return:
In regard to the more rapidly moving planets, their transits only become significant if they should closely configure the birth planets on the date of a lunar return. For example, if Mars should be in exact opposition, conjunction, or to a lesser extent, square the radical sun on the date of a lunar return there will be a liability of an accident, hurt or illness. Otherwise such a transit may pass without anything untoward occurring. So it is always advisable to note all the transits to the birth planets, especially to the natal moon, that are exact or nearly so, on the date of a lunar return for they are certain to be effective. Indeed the Indian Janma-Rasi method of monthly prediction, which has proved so astonishingly successful, was probably originally based on such transits.

Notice that nothing here says that it is the main theme.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

We're close to saying the same thing.

I understand.

Jim wrote:

Notice that nothing here says that it is the main theme.

You are right Jim, sorry, I was posting by memory before I found Fagan’s article using my own personal experiences with what Fagan stated, which did manifest as a main theme for me. To use Fagan’s exact words he says:

…their transits (faster moving planets) only become significant… …for they are certain to be effective.

I find this article by Fagan to be enlightening, confirmed by my own personal experiences, because it isolate the "faster moving planets" as partile transits (0,90,180) to natal planets becoming "significant" only if they occur on the day of a SLR, when most of the time as partile transits to a natal they are not "significant." By my own personal experience combined with Fagan teachings in his AA article, I think this is an important detail not to be overlooked for certain SLR's.

[Jim Eshelman]

LOL, as an example of a minor detail instead of a main theme, my new SLR has (away from the angles) Mercury square my Mars - as part of the ongoing Pluto conjunction with my Mars - and atop the opposition of your Mars and my Mars.

The consequence is a minor difference of opinion - hardly what one would expect if Mercury-Pluto-Mars were thus aspected on the angles.

Or, since an exact Moon-Neptune conjunction within 1° of an angle is the main feature of my SLR, perhaps I'm merely confused and deluded about that <vbg>.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Or, since an exact Moon-Neptune conjunction within 1° of an angle is the main feature of my SLR, perhaps I'm merely confused and deluded about that <vbg>.

<vbg> Been there myself Jim. Your Moon-Neptune SLR example of being on the floor above your floor reminds me when I went to Radio City Hall in NY as a kid with my parents to see South Pacific. I ask to go to bathroom before the curtain went up and came back to the wrong floor thinking my parents moved somewhere else. I sat down and watched the production, and afterwards thinking where the hell are my parents. Walking down the stairs I saw em in the lobby, they were mad as hell, wanted to know why I ruined their evening. I told them I was where I was supposed to be and then was informed I came back to the wrong floor.

[Veronica]

Fagan once wrote he considered the SLR basically a health chart.

The late Rick Ostrander published a series of sidereal astrology newsletters back in the 1980s, printed on a dot-matrix printer and sold on a subscription basis. They were staple-affixed and sent via mail. They were great. Mine are gone.

I remember he stated in one issue that he stopped working with SLRs, saying events augured in the charts rarely, if ever occurred. He preferred only returns Solar based.

I am beginning to think he had a point.

I have no idea who this Rick is, but it sounds to me more like his own personal natal chart aspects need to express ego centricness.......usually people who have a point to express do so from the ego desires.

I get amazed at people who feel that life needs drama and excitement and EVENTS, all the time. Holy wow I am ever so grateful that my lunar returns show my health and not a truck load of events happening to me. I'd be long dead and buried if Lunars were all about action happening to me.

imo people dont pay enough attention to health and being healthy and making choices based on health. I am glad that I can turn to my Lunars and get an idea of what my over all physiological being is going to be encountering.

honestly I'm sick of the excitement and stress of all the events, it knocks my homeostasis of kilter and encourages bad choice making in the heat of the moment. but I realize that a huge portion of our population is bored bored bored with life and are not doing anything constructive with thier time, have to much idle time and want to feel high and happy and excited and vibrant at all times at all cost.
thank you Jim for working so hard to demonstrate that the Lunars are vital to our long term health and give us insight Into what our fellow humans are experiencing internally so that we may grow in compassion and empathy and become more balanced and healthy as a whole!

[Jim Eshelman]

Rick Ostrander was a second generation Sidereal astrologer who wrote for Spica and other periodicals. He was born December 17, 1928, 8:45 AM PST, Vallejo, CA and, long before the Internet, managed to have a significant outreach of teaching others.

I agree with you that one consideration in all of this is that not every month brings a significant event. I don't consider trying to get into my apartment on the wrong floor or being up to my elbows in non-drained washer water to be significant events - I won't remember them this time next year unless reminded, and won't pay any attention to them once they lose their value as "teaching moments." Nonetheless, they are quite descriptive (text-book) of my SLR and just might be the most significant things to happen to me in this two-week period. OTOH, I can solidly vouch for the thing that is the real basis of astrological effects: The psychological effect. When Neptune's transit to my Moon has rotated to SLR angles, there has been an acute sensitivity that is hard to manage (in my already Moon-dominant nativity). For example, I'm home from work today to convalesce (another Neptune-Moon thing) from the last few weeks of extreme schedule and the main thing going on is that I wish people would leave me the hell alone! (Even people I appreciate, e.g., a maintenance man who could have come yesterday but came today instead, did some things we've been wanting, was quite nice and non-intrusive, but just felt like a gigantic intrusion anyway.)

[Veronica]

Fagan once wrote he considered the SLR basically a health chart.

The late Rick Ostrander published a series of sidereal astrology newsletters back in the 1980s, printed on a dot-matrix printer and sold on a subscription basis. They were staple-affixed and sent via mail. They were great. Mine are gone.

I remember he stated in one issue that he stopped working with SLRs, saying events augured in the charts rarely, if ever occurred. He preferred only returns Solar based.

I am beginning to think he had a point.

Looking at his personal natal chart, he most definitely had a point about somethings, and with a sun mercury Saturn opposite mars, with Saggitarius Sun and Aquarius Moon I can definitely understand why he personally had much more success looking at his solar returns then his lunar.
In thinking of a young man developing in that time and place it, for him to even admit that a lunar chart had any worthwhile merit, though he may not have consciousnessly know what he was saying aloud was so profound and may be even against the point he thought he had.
I mean, by personally claiming that, his personal preference (knowing people would look at his chart to see where he was coming from) he very much opened the door more towards the radical notion that all life has it's own unique voice to share in the chorus of all life and should be aloud to share it.

[SteveS]

Randallnyc, FWIW, here are my opinions based on my work with SLR’s relative to my work with Sidereal Astrology:

I think certain SLR’s hold important timing value, but most SLR's will not time anything of timing importance, imo. It could be Rick felt the same way, I don't know. I always look closely at all my SLR’s for a given new solar year. I have my own individual methods for selecting the SLR’s which I think are important for me and my clients from a "timing" standpoint.

Donald Bradley (a great Siderealists) wrote a book on Solar & Lunar Returns. FWIW, here is an important point from Bradley’s book which has become very important in my work with solunars:

Lunar Returns, while more powerful in immediate effect, are subservient to the preceding solar return. Therefore, we must look to the lunar return for proof that lunars returns usually “time” the major occurrences foreshadowed in the solar return.

Note: Bradley said "usually time the major occurrences." Randallnyc, through my work with SLR’s I have found great truth in Bradley’s above quoted words pertaining to timing important events/incidents in my life combined with Jim’s criteria for “outstanding incident” return charts. I will try to open a new tread later in the Solunars topic giving an example in my life pertaining to my current SSR with an upcoming “outstanding incident” SLR, to how it relates to Bradley’s above quoted words, combined with Jim's criteria for "outstanding incidents" return charts. “Outstanding Incident” SLR’s and their possible importance to a native are always relative to what’s going on in the native's immediate environment, imo.

[SteveS]

Randallnyc, I consider Donald Bradley a true astrological orator/teacher. I want to offer what I consider a par-excellent example of Bradley’s above quoted words with my current Sidereal Solar Retune (SSR) which began on Sept 20, combined with Jim’s “outstanding incident” pertaining to one of my Sidereal Lunar Returns (SLR) for my solar year. Below is a link to my 2021 SSR:

https://ibb.co/z6kkwTt

Note SSR Venus in opposition to SSR Uranus dominating the angles (Horizon) of my SSR, with Jupiter more widely angular on the IC. I consider this SSR as potentially very benefic relative to certain personal objectives for my life. Donald Bradley clearly teaches me with his above quoted words, to look to my SLR’s to “time” “the major occurrences foreshadowed” in my SSR. Obviously the benefic angular Venus-Uranus is going to be one of the “major occurrences” in my SSR. Being 74 years of age and relative to my immediate environment (mainly a retired bored environment), I immediately knew when I calculated my 2021 SSR with high % this Venus-Uranus will most likely manifest itself with social relationships (Venus) excitement (Uranus). Since I am an astrologer I expect my angular SSR Uranus will also have much to do with astrological things, and one of my passions is seriously applying astrology in my life for recreational gambling purposes. I have been a recreational gambler for most of my life fulfilling lots of social fun in my life. So, in order for me to know with high % WHEN this angular SSR Venus-Uranus will manifest during my new solar year I look to Jim’s criteria of possible “outstanding incidents” for my life with my SLR’s. I don’t have to go far into my new solar year to see on Oct 9th I have an “outstanding incident” Venus (social relationships) 180 Node (associations) SLR. Below is a link to my Oct 9th SLR:

https://ibb.co/5K8Mxdc

I want to try and synchronize important activities in my life with my SLR’s, preferably with Jim’s criteria for possible “outstanding incidents” SLR’s when they are rarely calculated. On Oct 10th my immediate environment will be lots of social partying all day and night with a group of associations for recreational gambling/partying purposes. What probably appears to others as not an “outstanding incident” (partying), the circumstances and possible results planned for me on Oct 10th is definitely an “outstanding incident” uniquely relative my life.

I see/understand great timing value for myself with Bradley’s and Jim’s Return Chart teachings with certain personal objectives for my life. I hope this example helps you better understand your “???” about possible uses/techniques for Sidereal Lunar Returns. As my solar year unfolds I will try to point out other key SLR’s in my solar year which may hold important astrological symbolism “foreshadowed” in my SSR.