Veronica and Craig

[Veronica]

I haven’t been able to get this relationship out of my head or heart.

That’s part of my personality.

Flo said that it was possible that Idealized Craig.

In my chart it shows that when I love anything I idealize it.

Be it Planet Earth, or my father or a friend or a lover……I go to the extreme and idealize them.

I know its true. I had a mediation the other day about how I love planet earth it was a very profound thought to realize that the way I view earth, is obviously not how others view it, nor it is actually the way earth is. It a challenge in my chart, or an expierence. Its why I was such a rabid environmentalist.



My chart shows that I feel and operate best when I feel in love. Its true. If I don’t have something to love I feel sick. The problem is im a hard person to love, I have trouble loving myself and giving myself that self love. Even though that is obviously the healthiest thing to do.

I had a thought the other day. I was thinking about this compostite chart that is just to weird and funny between me and Craig, and how I feel so incredibly strong about him and all these emotions and thoughts and stuff that I never knew I had in me and the depth and intensity of it all, and they say in a composite chart that it is not just one person feeling that way, that because it is a relationship chart that both parties are expierncing it, but that it is the individuals natal chart, and the couples synastry that influence how.

I know myself pretty well. Angular sun and pluto. Are striking as well as my scorpio stellium. That angle business is what I feel lays at the core of why this relationship gets to me so intensly.

Ive tried to think of what I would say to someone if they came to me with these charts. I think I would be dumbfounded on how to explain what I feel might be going on.

I looked at that composite and I saw that Saturn and the sun were conjunct and not only that but that they were opposite mercury conjunct Neptune…..as Venus conjunct Jupiter.

I know Im slow, but I do get it eventually.

Jim once said “if it isn’t funny it isn’t real, and if its funny its real” or something close to that.

It was funny to me about that chart. It seemed to say that I was part of some really intense relationship and that for the most part it should be good. But it wasn’t. parts were good and parts were not good.

When I first looked at that composite chart years ago....it made me think of a pendulm. The sun saturn being the apex and the moon pluto mar uranus being one swing and the venus jupiter neptune mercury being the other swing.

Its how the relationship felt. Sometimes high with the one side and then low on the other.

I think my initial feeling of a pendulm was a fair gut reaction. I think though now that something else was actually going on.

Mercury is the fastest moving planet around the sun, second to venus. In all natal charts those three planets are all very close. They are most definitely never on opposite side of a chart.

In our composite the sun is opposite venus and mercury.

Its a midpoint though, on a sphere/circle. Its a funny thing. Not physically possible but some how it hard to be because we are real people and we really do have a relationship.

How do you delineate something unreal like that. How do you come up with attributes and qualities of something that is not real that would never happen in the real world.

You cant really.

So I had had a relationship that should not have ever existed? It shouldn’t have possible?

But it was a midpoint composite chart, and I didn’t understand what was going on.

A while back when Steve told me about my Mar/Venus midpoint being on the Asc, when it was actually on the Desc….I did stop and think about how each pairing of planets would have to have 2 midpoints, one very close and one not so close, as a circle would give these two aspects beween two points, unlike a line which would only have on spot as a midpoint between them.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that both Craig and I have very extreme strong and deep emotions and I will admit to almost having a bi polar personality issue, in which my mood swings go from one extreme to the other in an unpredictable and unreal way.

My expiernce of the relationship with Craig seem to reflect the idea that we have a polar midpoint issue going on, for lack of a better way to explain it. Sometimes we are at the shortest midpoint, and other times they flip to the opposite, in which we have a huge conjunction of venus/Jupiter/Saturn/sun/mercury/Neptune all crammed into a relatively small bit of space in the 4th house the place of home, and that is when our Pluto nature of all or nothing kicks in.

Craig and I both have the mind that we do not like to be told what to do and how to do it.

A part of me in looking into the funny chart was trying to disprove my feelings.

I am sure that a part of him is saying, “oh yea….you think I got this thing going on…..well I do what I want…” even the universe cant tell us what to do unless we want to do it.

I dont know why the universe brought us together. I may never know.

I do know that its not that I am giving up it just that I cant handle the intesity of my feelings. Im tired of being sad and lonely and confused and I just want something normal and real and secure.

Im sure thats why he wont bother with me. He wants peace and quiet and simple and light and not all the soul wrencthing heartache and mental anguish.

I dont blame him. I do too. Its scary feeling so deep and hard and of things you never felt. Love/fear is not funny at all.

Anyways I wanted to share my feelings on the idea of the midpoints having a valid second pole in which I feel the shadow apects or the anima/animus aspects might have a source for manifestation as it feels like that is what goes on in this relationship. At least from my perspective. You all are a better judge of his perspective as I do wear rose colored glasses.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim once said “if it isn’t funny it isn’t real, and if its funny its real” or something close to that.

"If it's not funny, it's not true. If it's not true, it's not funny."

[SteveS]

Veronica wrote:

A while back when Steve told me about my Mar/Venus midpoint being on the Asc, when it was actually on the Desc….

Yes Veronica, you indeed do have a Direct Midpoint with Venus/Mars =’DSC’ partile 90 your Natal Pluto. A Siderealist who used Midpoints in their work, without a doubt, would consider this planetary picture as the most important/potent configuration in your natal chart. Most assuredly you will feel intensely/deeply the polarities of Venus-Mars in your life regarding this Direct Midpoint. The reason I originally listed this midpoint with your ASC---the German Schools who originated Midpoints only recognized the ASC & MC pertaining to primary angles, and computer programs do the same, only distinguishing the ASC & MC. A Siderealist who recognized the DSC as a key point for close ‘relationships’ would definitely speak in terms of your DSC, primarily because your natal Venus and Mars are in the ‘foreground’ of your DSC, not your ASC.

[Jim Eshelman]

To state it more simply: Every midpoint is an opposition axis. My Venus is 1°53' Scorpio and my Mars 28°55' Sagittarius. Their midpoint is 0°24' Sagittarius, right? Well, half-right. Yes, 0°24' Sagittarius is exactly halfway between Venus and Mars, but so is 0°24' Gemini. It's an axis.

So your midpoint isn't just on the Asc or Dsc, it's on the Asc-Dsc axis.

The midpoint that is closer to the planets (0°24' Sag in my case) is called the "near-side" direct midpoint, while the other (0°24' Gem in my case) is called the "far-side" direct midpoint. But they're both DIRECT midpoints. The first indirect midpoint (i.e., an aspect to a midpoint) is the square to it.

[SteveS]

Excellent explanation Jim.

[Veronica]

Thank you for quoting yourself Correctly Jim.

Its an excellent statement. Helps me think about all sorts of things in my life clearer.

I am a light hearted funny joking girl most of the time. Its true.

I appreciate you both adding clarity to the thoughts that came in my mind about midpoints. The axis idea does validate what this relationship feels like.

When Craig and I are good and happy, its the most peaceful serene content feeling. Like time stands still. We can happy doing absolutely nothing together.
The passivity is all consuming. For me anyway.

It feels like there is nothing to be done. No chore or task seems pressing. No need to fulfull. No want.

Even though, in the back of my mind I have a million things I know I should be doing.
I dont care about that.
I just like being with him and feeling like the whole world is ours for the taking. But I dont care to reach out and take it.

Its like there is no aspect at all to anything to move or build or grow, its perfect in a way, until we toss in some psychological BS Saturn (that IMO We both are to smart and to secure to normally let it bother us) to get things moving because our individual needs are still working under the surface and gave to be addressed.

[Veronica]

After giving this much thought.....

I think a more appropriate birth time of 2:50ish for Craig is correct.

It doesnt quite feel right inside that my venus is on his angle. But more that my Venus/Mars midpoint is.

That would place our sun/Saturn conjunction (with Venus/jupiter conjunction in opposition) in the 12th house instead of the 11th.....
And while I wish for the deep bond of friendship that house would bring I have to admit that the psychological aspects of the 12th house are much more accurate to describe what I have experienced in this relationship.

I feel that while my venus is a strong part of me I have to admit that the midpoint on the ascendant is an extremely powerful aspect of my being and that as indicated by my lifes work and experience so far is a much more accurate indicator of my relationship patterns.

[Veronica]

Btw....

Jim I do believe allready said my Venus was 20 degrees mutable his angle.

I just couldnt hear what he was saying because I was all wrapped up in some ego garbage.

He knows what hes talking about
And unlike any other astrologer He created a place where he is accessible to earnest seekers who need a hand up to understand themselves and the world they live in.

Thank you for your help Jim, you light up dark alleys with that beautiful Aquarian moon.

[Veronica]

And Jupiter....

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your keen insights with such compassion and understanding.

Old age is not for pussies
And Craig and I are definitely not pussies. Only two old farts like us could handle the blessings that a 12th house conjunction of saturn/sun bring to the surface.

Im sorry Im such a reactive paranoid person at times.
Defending the ego is a habit and I appreciate you helping me work through that.

[Veronica]

It was 8 years ago today that Craig and I had our first date.

our Progressed composite moon has left the 12th house and is now in the first.

Funny how time changes so many things, my love for him has grown in ways I never could have imagined, and my life has unfolded in ways that they never could have without his love and support.