Obesity

[FlorencedeZ.]

Recently there were some topics about tallness and diabetes and I am wondering what your astrological view is on obesity? Is there a correlation between planets and/or aspects to being overweight? I have three friends who are all Cancer Suns and have a problem with being overweight. Is the Moon perhaps involved because of desire and food?
Regards,
Florence

[FlorencedeZ.]

Cancer Suns often (but not invariably) tend to be a little heavier (sometimes a lot). I do think it has a lot to do with their particular love of food. (Cancer is a gourmand.)

As a rule, obesity has the most to do with Saturn.

[FlorencedeZ.]

I thought there was a Jupiter/Moon link?

[FlorencedeZ.]

I have read that Taurus inlines people to obesity. Is this correct or is it just a tropicalist interpretation?

As a rule, obesity has the most to do with Saturn.

Thank you Jim for pointing this out. Is it Saturn foreground, or aspect of saturn that determine obesity?

[FlorencedeZ.]

As a rule, obesity has the most to do with Saturn.

That makes sense. Obesity (as opposed to a little plumpness) is a constraint. Clothing often literally constricts circulation. Most obese people I've met have trouble breathing. The more obese the person, the more constrained.

There's also usually money constraints. They make less money if they're employed at all.

[FlorencedeZ.]

There's also usually money constraints. They make less money if they're employed at all.

....You mean people with Saturn foreground, right? Because I have seen a lot or rich obese people

[FlorencedeZ.]

I meant conceptually, more than specific things.

There are all sorts of sociological and biological things behind this. Just to mention a few:
-- The most impoverished countries and the most impoverished areas have the highest incidence of obesity.
-- The body alters metabolism in the face of nutritional lack, and accumulates almost unremovable weight as emergency stores.
-- Depression alters biochemistry to hold on weight.
-- Most overweight comes from a sense of deprivation, not from a sense of abundance.

There are several things here that get lumped together, yet really need to be distinguished. For example, there is "a little plump," which comes from indications of sensuality or general marks of appetite. There are also people who have a sense of "bigness," not necessarily related to weight or even height - .e.g., Leo Moons come across as big, whether they are the tall basketball player type or the many short "mouse that roared" type.

I know some really skinny Sun-Saturn aspect people, but mostly they go the other way.

Most of the Moon-Saturn aspect people I know are pretty skinny. At the moment, I can't think of any that exceed "a little plump."

[FlorencedeZ.]

I hope I can also share my story, around 2007, I started putting on weight because of a medication I was taking due to hormonal problems. At that time the doctors did not know my pituitary was shutting down. Then in 2008, I put on a monumentous amount of weight, I've always been about 150, thin, but still full. The weight gain was attributed to under production of cortisol and thyroid hormone gender neutral hormones, and over production of estrogen and prolactin, hormones typically associated with the female gender. I've finally stopped gaining weight, and have gradually begun to lose it. I have a Mars/Uranus conjunction tightly in the foreground which has probably attributed to vitality and physical activity leading me to be able to burn fat quickly earlier in life. As Mars conjoined to Neptune by I did begin to gain even more weight, it kind of sky roketted as the conjunction approached, keep in mind this was before I knew nothing ueseful about astrology. I hope that after Mars and Neptune get to a comfortable distance the nighmare will stop. I live in a part of the country where there's on average more slightly obese than thin people, so I have witnessed this epidemic firsthand. I live less than 100 miles from the fatest city in Texas and the coutnry sadly. It's also one of the cities with the most violence in Texas too. I believe these things are due to our broken immigration system.

[FlorencedeZ.]

I have always been very skinny, there was a time people thought I was anorexic (but I didn't have an eating disorder and my thyroid levels are fine). I would have thought that with a conjunction of mars-saturn I would have a tendency to put on weight, but luckily I don't. Are there any other significators that can point to thinness or even gauntness? I have sun in Gemini and moon in virgo, could they indcate this?

[FlorencedeZ.]

Yes, both of those Mercury-sign placements are prone to mercurial builds.

Mars-Saturn might tend to muscle, but rarely to fat-weight, because it tends to be ascetic UNLESS it is manifesting as self-destructive (in which case it could go any which way). There used to be a saying in LA astrology circles that Mars-Saturn was "as skinny as a crack ho' and twice as mean."

The first part tends to be true.

[FlorencedeZ.]

...luckily Mars-Saturn is not entirely negative in its manifestations. Most astrology textbooks (apart from yours Jim and Bradley's definition) paint it in a very negative light, but I guess it al depends how the person in manifesting the energy. Does having this aspect in the background mitigate its negative effects?

[FlorencedeZ.]

Does having this aspect in the background mitigate its negative effects?

No. If there is any accurate generalization, it's that it makes it worse. It's a powerful energy that has to be expressed outward. Being in the background suppresses and blocks that.

So, in the background, it's two most likely manifestations are extreme health crises and being covertly destructive.

[FlorencedeZ.]

There are all sorts of sociological and biological things behind this. Just to mention a few:
-- The most impoverished countries and the most impoverished areas have the highest incidence of obesity.
-- The body alters metabolism in the face of nutritional lack, and accumulates almost unremovable weight as emergency stores.
-- Depression alters biochemistry to hold on weight.
-- Most overweight comes from a sense of deprivation, not from a sense of abundance.
There are several things here that get lumped together, yet really need to be distinguished. For example, there is "a little plump," which comes from indications of sensuality or general marks of appetite.
."

This was very helpful information, thank you for sum it up so nicely.
My ten year old daughter has been slightly plump most all of her life. Her fathers family is obese mostly, all poor as dirt and depressed.
When I was pregnant with her, my husband was an active alcoholic, and verbally abusive. It was not a happy pregnancy for me, ever though I tend to have a healthy and happy outlook.
At about ten months she weaned herself from my milk, and became very hands off not liking to be cuddled or touched much at all. She also would have fits of anger, violently thrashing about on the floor, screaming. Her mood swings are extreme at times, or at least she goes from calm to dark as night in a flash. She used to attack her older (18m) brother violently.
At three until six she had horrific night terrors, and still has very bad dreams.
After I read Bruce Liptons book _The Biology of Belief_ I started to reflect upon what *my* part in all of this was. Her doctors would just sort of pashaw my concerns, saying it was just her personality. I did have some blood work done on her thyroid, normal, and they just spoke of her diet and excursive.
I eat healthy, shop healthy and try to get my kids as active as possible. Yet she still outweighs most all the girls her age, and is getting very self conscious about it.
I am concerned that she may have an inherited issue, possibly due to my own depressed depraved attitude during pregnancy, and that she will be plagued by weight, anger, sadness and lack of intamate contact her whole life.
I am hopeful that now that I am separated from her father and actively engaged in being with her and us enjoying all the abundances of life she will be able to develop positive life skills, coping mechanisms, and loving nurturing relationships.

She is a Libra.
Born 10-22-02 at 2:22, Rochester NY.
If anyone has the time and inclination to look at her chart and share any insights it would be greatly appreciated. She is my little StormCloud, and I want to help her find her silver lining.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Here chart info that I got was
Sun libra *3
Moon Aries
Mars and mercury Virgo
Uranus Aquarius (0 degrees decendant)
Saturn Gemini
Jupiter cancer
Venus libra
Neptune Scorpio

Her chart seems like every single planet is aspecting other ones in trines and squares, very dynamic looking. Jupiter, Saturn and the moon were very visible in the sky, I recall seeing the as i was looking out the car window as we sped to the hospital under police escort. I went from pregnant one moment, to giving birth naturally in less then an hour.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Can you give the full data, please, Veronica? Generally, a Libra-Aries is not going to be overweight unless there are psychological elements that drive the behavior. Libra Suns are keenly sensitive about appearance, so it's healthy and natural for them to be playfully vain. Going on this alone, a bad case could be obsessed about appearance and swing into other eating disorders (but let's not presume pathology where it doesn't yet exist, eh?). Aries Moons tend to be hyperactive, physical, athletic, aggressively sexual, which tends more to slimness than not.

But the whole chart would help.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Yes, as a Libra Sun with a Scorpio Moon I am keenly sensitive about appearance. Gladly not to the point of a pathology. It's just the way it has always been. I love cooking and feasting . And when I put on weight I feel a lot heavier then I actually am. I have a close Mars-Saturn foreground opposition on the Asc/Desc axis and I have always felt this to be an advantage in keeping my weight down with mental effort. I feel it helps me in abstaining from crossing the line of eating too much and keeps me thin. I am able to endure this and feels almost ascetic from time to time.
My friend who also has a Libra Sun with Aries Moon is very thin. I can't imagine her being overweight.
Best Regards,
Florence

[FlorencedeZ.]

As Libra has been mentioned, I post here the chart of a friend whose battle with weight loss and depression has been the most prominent fearture of her life. At one point in her life she was dangerously obese, suffering from severe bulimia and panic attacks, with the costant fear of "becoming insane". She is still on meds for depression and is a heavy smoker. To be honest, apart from moon in pisces, I can't see what else in her chart would indicate this behaviour. Any insights? She was born on Sept 2nd 1983 at 10.25 at 44 N 11 28 E 39

[FlorencedeZ.]

She was born on Sept 2nd 1983 at 10.25 at 44 N 11 28 E 39

Could you please give the name of the city (or, at least, the time zone)? I always want to recalculate these charts (usually ignore answering if I can't), and I need full birth data to do that. (I could track it down from the coordinates, but that takes time and I end up feeling cranky.)

Please see this instruction on how to state birth data:
http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4

Ok, no problem. The birth details are Sept 22nd 1983 at 10.25 am, Constanta, Romania, 2 hours east. Accuracy from birth cerificate

[FlorencedeZ.]

Ok, no problem. The birth details are Sept 22nd 1983 at 10.25 am, Constanta, Romania, 2 hours east. Accuracy from birth cerificate

Thanks

The character traits you mention are well shown. She has an exact Full Moon closely square Neptune in the background, plus a rising Saturn variously aspected.

There is also body stuff - anger stuff - stuff locked in the body that needs out through abundant sex, physical activitiy, and more - from close Mars-Pluto aspects, such as hers.

Besides the Neptune and Saturn related psychological states, notice that Venus and Saturn are the two most angular planets, with Mars coming up behind. This tells us that "screwed up Venus issues" are a vulnerability for her - negative attractiveness behaviors etc., with the anger issues working their way out through that sort of behavior (as well as through the ideation implied by the Virgo-Pisces luminaries square Neptune).

Venus is closest to the angle, 4°50' out according to the mundoscope. Saturn is 6° above the Ascendant, Mars 8°15' from the Midheaven, and Pluto way too far to be foreground. Neptune, Sun, and Moon are all in the background.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Thank you Jim this does makes sense. The Venus Saturn is also indicative of another feature of her life that she feels strongly about; that of feeling unloved and "mourning" a lost love (he didn't die as such, but her reaction is just as strong). She also talks incessantly, if you have ever read the description of the Bach flower remedies she would be "Heather". After a while in her company she has a draining effect on me and I feel completely depleted. What aspect has the propensity to manifest this way?

[FlorencedeZ.]

Probably an interaction with your chart, although the magnitude of neediness you describe could cause it. The Neptune can manifest that way.

[Jim Eshelman]

Generally speaking , obesity is related to an afflicted jupiter/neptune. too much jupiter indicate indulgence behavior and too much neptune escapism through food or other means.

Medically, obesity has almost nothing to do with over indulgence. "A little extra weight" does, for sure, but obesity arises from an entirely different cascade of issues. (It's more likely to be connected to the wrong food than to too much food.) With the rarest exceptions, obese people aren't fat because they eat huge amounts of food, though they often eat way more than other people because they are obese (it takes more fuel to even minimally sustain a much larger body). And, of course, tendencies (especially fed by poverty) to eat food that doesn't truly feed the body will just make things worse.

The old kind of thought that "fat people just eat too much" is completely out the window. The two are only minimally connected.

[SteveS]

What about genetics?

[Jim Eshelman]

What about genetics?

Definitely a factor. One of the bigger ones.

The problem is now much better understood in terms of such issues as hormonal adjustments and inflammation. For over half a century the science has been available (and only recently coming into better adoption) that they body has different kinds of fat, and the historic "calories in / calories out" management tends to strip the body of exactly the kind of fat you don't want to get rid of (structural fat) and not touch the exact fat you need to get rid of. Too long to outline here, but there are very minor hormonal changes that unlock the fat one wants to get rid of.

[ChiefQuail]

I also believe that genetically has something to be part of being obese, but it still on the person on how they control their eating habit not just the habit also, how to eat proper food. but all have been discussed here are true and helpful for those who want changes in their eating lifestyle,