Woke Up Wailing

[Venus_Daily]

I woke up from a dream wailing just a few moments ago. I haven't cried like this in ages. It was exactly 9:19 AM. First thing I noticed was Venus/Pluto exactly on the ASC with Venus being stationary. Uranus is also exactly on the IC. It was strange.

[Jim Eshelman]

I woke up from a dream wailing just a few moments ago. I haven't cried like this in ages. It was exactly 9:19 AM. First thing I noticed was Venus/Pluto exactly on the ASC with Venus being stationary. Uranus is also exactly on the IC. It was strange.

These aspects sound like an emotional release - something breaking loose and freeing. Mundanely, that Venus-Uranus-Pluto is quite precise and Venus is stationary today - stopped in space and much intensified. Here are the mundoscope positions (shown as degrees within houses for convenience):

29°26' 3H - Uranus
0°47' 1H - Venus stationary
0°57' 1H - Pluto

But I'm guessing (partly from your description) that it had a feeling of grief attached. Transiting Saturn had squared MC a few minutes earlier and your Saturn was exactly on MC at the time you woke. Transiting Uranus wasn't quite partile in its opposition to natal Saturn, but everything coming to an angle together tied it together more tightly. Uranus' transit opposite natal Saturn adds a further quality of rigid content breaking loose in your psyche - a release of old content. (When I think of Saturn, it makes me think of this "breaking loose" as resembling a colonic cleanse of the psyche.)

[Jim Eshelman]

You have another interesting pattern to which I normally wouldn't pay much attention, but which really LEAPS off your transits for today because it is so exact. You were natally born with Moon's north node on Asc, and transiting node is now exactly on both. A couple of days ago, transiting Mars opposed all of this, perhaps causing events the impact of which is just coming to the surface of your psyche. Here are the positions for the time you woke:

6°23' Tau - rAsc
6°38' Tau - t Node
6°41' Tau - r Node
8°37' Sco - t Mars

I'm not sure how to interpret this. I can make guesses but the node is so subtle (a minor factor, but one that tends to take greater importance when it has such close contacts). We generally associate it with connections and associations - not quite "relationships," but more like "ties" or "contacts." If this interpretation is correct, then this is likely the area where events (or breaking loose connections) are occurring. These positions also sesqui-square your Moon at 21°19' Sagittarius.

[Venus_Daily]

Thank You Jim. I've been weepy-eyed all day. The deam content I just realized after waking up from another nap was about my ex. I know that seems like a frivolity to some, but this relationship has been one of the biggest events in my life that has plagued me, and it's been over 13 years since it was over.

My SLR for January 30th is pretty interesting. Venus stationary happens the day before (29th), and the SLR for the 30th features Venus very close to the ASC (less than half a degree away).

[SteveS]

Venus wrote:

I've been weepy-eyed all day. The deam content I just realized after waking up from another nap was about my ex. I know that seems like a frivolity to some, but this relationship has been one of the biggest events in my life that has plagued me, and it's been over 13 years since it was over.

Venus, I vaguely remember you discussing this relationship several years back. Do you feel confortable discussing this relationship which has plagued you to refresh my memory of its details?

[Venus_Daily]

Venus wrote:

I've been weepy-eyed all day. The deam content I just realized after waking up from another nap was about my ex. I know that seems like a frivolity to some, but this relationship has been one of the biggest events in my life that has plagued me, and it's been over 13 years since it was over.

Venus, I vaguely remember you discussing this relationship several years back. Do you feel confortable discussing this relationship which has plagued you to refresh my memory of its details?

It was an extremely intense relationship that happened from 2002-2008 filled with lots of synchronicity. We always had this strange psychic connection we couldn't explain. I hate to admit it, but I don't believe I would have learned about Western Sidereal Astrology had it not been for this relationship.

[Venus_Daily]

You have another interesting pattern to which I normally wouldn't pay much attention, but which really LEAPS off your transits for today because it is so exact. You were natally born with Moon's north node on Asc, and transiting node is now exactly on both. A couple of days ago, transiting Mars opposed all of this, perhaps causing events the impact of which is just coming to the surface of your psyche. Here are the positions for the time you woke:

6°23' Tau - rAsc
6°38' Tau - t Node
6°41' Tau - r Node
8°37' Sco - t Mars

I'm not sure how to interpret this. I can make guesses but the node is so subtle (a minor factor, but one that tends to take greater importance when it has such close contacts). We generally associate it with connections and associations - not quite "relationships," but more like "ties" or "contacts." If this interpretation is correct, then this is likely the area where events (or breaking loose connections) are occurring. These positions also sesqui-square your Moon at 21°19' Sagittarius.

Jim, is this normal? Are most people able to perceive this energy so strongly? Are we just more prone to psychic phenomena when we're asleep? I've always felt extremely sensitive and able to perceive energies on the angle even when they aren't touching any of my charts.

[Jim Eshelman]

Dreams (and visions that also tap subconscious Ed's) tend to reflect what's happening astrologically, especially what's on the angles and Moon's sign. I wrote a whole 600 page hardcover book documenting it.

[Venus_Daily]

Dreams (and visions that also tap subconscious Ed's) tend to reflect what's happening astrologically, especially what's on the angles and Moon's sign. I wrote a whole 600 page hardcover book documenting it.

Thanks, Jim. I'm ordering visions and voices when I get paid.

[Jim Eshelman]

[SteveS]

Venus wrote:

It was an extremely intense relationship that happened from 2002-2008 filled with lots of synchronicity. We always had this strange psychic connection we couldn't explain. I hate to admit it, but I don't believe I would have learned about Western Sidereal Astrology had it not been for this relationship.

Very interesting Venus. Do you have his birth info? BTW, I think this haunting feeling with this past relationship probably is seen in your Natal with the Direct Midpoint of Me/Sa = Ve. Ebertin for this Midpoint:

A seperation in love.

[Venus_Daily]

Venus wrote:

It was an extremely intense relationship that happened from 2002-2008 filled with lots of synchronicity. We always had this strange psychic connection we couldn't explain. I hate to admit it, but I don't believe I would have learned about Western Sidereal Astrology had it not been for this relationship.

Very interesting Venus. Do you have his birth info? BTW, I think this haunting feeling with this past relationship probably is seen in your Natal with the Direct Midpoint of Me/Sa = Ve. Ebertin for this Midpoint:

A seperation in love.

Link
https://imgur.com/a/9ytLJyN
Our charts are extremely interesting for the fact that we don't have extremely strong synastry.

[Jim Eshelman]

Our charts are extremely interesting for the fact that we don't have extremely strong synastry.

Let's see if I agree

The strongest thing I see at first glance isn't the usual kind of interchange for a romantic relationship, but for some different kind of relationship first: It is your Mercury conjunct his Mars-Jupiter. This suggests an intellectual or business connection first - was that true? Also, your Saturn opposite his Sun (near his angles) isn't typical, but neither is it rare: Unless there is a business element to the relationship, it often marks connections that seem difficult or a mistake in hindsight.

Some sign connections alone are worth noting: Your shared Spoke Moons are a good basis for attraction and connection, a sense that "there is something of interesting in this other person." Your Mars-sign opposite his Venus-sign is powerful even without a degree aspect.

Ah, the biggest thing is likely his Mars-Jupiter not only on your Mercury but square your Ascendant. I'd guess this means that he wanted to express his exultant masculinity toward, to find you a pleasurable conquest. Given this and the Sun-Saturn, I might guess that you came away feeling a bit like property or a trophy. - Your Mercury, Moon, and Ascendant all especially draw out his Jupiter.

Any truth to that?

[Danica]

Venus, I'll jump in here with just a brief look at what the Novien & Nov-to-Rx picture shows:

Your Novien Sun and his rx Sun are sq 24';
His Novien both Lights are in Sagittarius, as well as is your rx Moon;
Your Novien Mars opp his rx Moon (3*14'), rx Pluto (2*04');
His Novien Sun sq Mars (which is 35' wide) is with your rx Jupiter-Venus (and Neptune, a bit wider) -- closer with your Ju, with both under 3* orb;
His Novien Venus is sq your rx Pluto 32', and this is connected to his rx Sun-Moon Midpoint
(his rx So/Mo direct MP is at 5*21' Cancer, his Novien Venus 6*26' Capricorn, your rx Pluto 5*44' Libra).

Edit: there's more (like, his Nov. Ju, Pl, Sa with your rx Moon) - am leaving that to you to investigate further, the above is just for the brief preview, what immediately popped up for me upon looking at the charts.

[SteveS]

Venus, my 2 cents. I like to look at both the synastry and composite charts (midpoints). I can definitely see the “shared experiences” with this relationship with the tight angular direct midpoint of Sun/Node=Asc, kinda- like, maybe a strong husband type relationship, maybe both looked upon this relationship as he already being a husband. Regardless, with this angular Sun/Node there was indeed a strong “desire” to make a “close personal physical contact”—kinda like already a strong “family tie,” existed from the get-go, maybe with the relationship manifesting with already a close “psychic” bond like a “family.”

But, there was the partile Saturn-Uranus 45 (tension) with Saturn cnj Mars (ouch) and Moon cnj Uranus (emotional upsets), which flavored this relationship with Moon-Mars-Saturn-Uranus symbolism (again-ouch). Also, a tight Mercury-Neptune opposition which I am guessing idealized this relationship mentally in both minds. Anyway, that is my best guess looking at this Composite Chart.

If any of the above is true, I can see how this would haunt you throughout your life, it’s like an already long strong family bond was broken.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Composite Chart:
https://ibb.co/YRBrSGX

[Venus_Daily]

Our charts are extremely interesting for the fact that we don't have extremely strong synastry.

Let's see if I agree

The strongest thing I see at first glance isn't the usual kind of interchange for a romantic relationship, but for some different kind of relationship first: It is your Mercury conjunct his Mars-Jupiter. This suggests an intellectual or business connection first - was that true? Also, your Saturn opposite his Sun (near his angles) isn't typical, but neither is it rare: Unless there is a business element to the relationship, it often marks connections that seem difficult or a mistake in hindsight.

Some sign connections alone are worth noting: Your shared Spoke Moons are a good basis for attraction and connection, a sense that "there is something of interesting in this other person." Your Mars-sign opposite his Venus-sign is powerful even without a degree aspect.

Ah, the biggest thing is likely his Mars-Jupiter not only on your Mercury but square your Ascendant. I'd guess this means that he wanted to express his exultant masculinity toward, to find you a pleasurable conquest. Given this and the Sun-Saturn, I might guess that you came away feeling a bit like property or a trophy. - Your Mercury, Moon, and Ascendant all especially draw out his Jupiter.

Any truth to that?

Yes, everything you are saying is extremely true except for the business arrangement. Well, he did lavish me with financial assistance even when we were not speaking. When we met, our progressed Venus/Mars was within one degree of each other. He enjoyed the fact that I was a virgin waiting just for him after marriage. I didn't mind being a trophy except for the double standard of infidelity. His chart does show that he had issues with his mother, and I feel like that got displaced onto me a lot. I just loved his masculine aura, he wasn't cocky at all just very regal almost like a knight. Can his pluto placement explain why we felt so intensely toward each other?


Anyway, I downloaded Visions and voices last night from Amazon because I couldn't wait. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I decided to look at the chart for Saturday again, and I saw that the moon was aspecting Neptune less in less than half a degree from Taurus. Astrologically, does this symbol Jive with approaching/crossing the abyss?

Another strange occurrence that was random in nature and in effect was feeling like my anti-anxiety medication was not working. I felt like I had gone through withdrawals until late afternoon despite always being careful to store my medication for the week and take them before I do anything. It felt like I hadn't been taking them for weeks in terms of strange withdrawal symptoms like brain zaps. Am I right to assume from a physiological standpoint that nootropics that stimulate the brain too much or depress function have a prohibitive effect on crossing the abyss?

[Venus_Daily]

Venus, my 2 cents. I like to look at both the synastry and composite charts (midpoints). I can definitely see the “shared experiences” with this relationship with the tight angular direct midpoint of Sun/Node=Asc, kinda- like, maybe a strong husband type relationship, maybe both looked upon this relationship as he already being a husband. Regardless, with this angular Sun/Node there was indeed a strong “desire” to make a “close personal physical contact”—kinda like already a strong “family tie,” existed from the get-go, maybe with the relationship manifesting with already a close “psychic” bond like a “family.”

But, there was the partile Saturn-Uranus 45 (tension) with Saturn cnj Mars (ouch) and Moon cnj Uranus (emotional upsets), which flavored this relationship with Moon-Mars-Saturn-Uranus symbolism (again-ouch). Also, a tight Mercury-Neptune opposition which I am guessing idealized this relationship mentally in both minds. Anyway, that is my best guess looking at this Composite Chart.

If any of the above is true, I can see how this would haunt you throughout your life, it’s like an already long strong family bond was broken.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Composite Chart:
https://ibb.co/YRBrSGX

Yes, there has always been a part of me that feels something is missing. Sometimes, I don't even notice, but when the world quiets down, it still haunts me.

[Venus_Daily]

Venus, I'll jump in here with just a brief look at what the Novien & Nov-to-Rx picture shows:

Your Novien Sun and his rx Sun are sq 24';
His Novien both Lights are in Sagittarius, as well as is your rx Moon;
Your Novien Mars opp his rx Moon (3*14'), rx Pluto (2*04');
His Novien Sun sq Mars (which is 35' wide) is with your rx Jupiter-Venus (and Neptune, a bit wider) -- closer with your Ju, with both under 3* orb;
His Novien Venus is sq your rx Pluto 32', and this is connected to his rx Sun-Moon Midpoint
(his rx So/Mo direct MP is at 5*21' Cancer, his Novien Venus 6*26' Capricorn, your rx Pluto 5*44' Libra).

Edit: there's more (like, his Nov. Ju, Pl, Sa with your rx Moon) - am leaving that to you to investigate further, the above is just for the brief preview, what immediately popped up for me upon looking at the charts.

Wow, Danica. I have to take a look at this.

[SteveS]

Venus wrote:

His chart does show that he had issues with his mother, and I feel like that got displaced onto me a lot. I just loved his masculine aura, he wasn't cocky at all just very regal almost like a knight.

Venus, I think this is what I felt with the Composite Chart with the tight conjunction of c. Sun/Node on c. Asc, particularly the “masculine aura” and “regal” shared experiences “like a knight” in shining armor.
Venus wrote:

Yes, there has always been a part of me that feels something is missing. Sometimes, I don't even notice, but when the world quiets down, it still haunts me.

Do you mind if I probe more into his chart for possible stuff with your “feeling something is missing.”

[Venus_Daily]

Venus wrote:

His chart does show that he had issues with his mother, and I feel like that got displaced onto me a lot. I just loved his masculine aura, he wasn't cocky at all just very regal almost like a knight.

Venus, I think this is what I felt with the Composite Chart with the tight conjunction of c. Sun/Node on c. Asc, particularly the “masculine aura” and “regal” shared experiences “like a knight” in shining armor.
Venus wrote:

Yes, there has always been a part of me that feels something is missing. Sometimes, I don't even notice, but when the world quiets down, it still haunts me.

Do you mind if I probe more into his chart for possible stuff with your “feeling something is missing.”

Sure, Steve!

[SteveS]

Venus, without going into complicated details of explanations, there exists data after analyzing your Ex’s 5th Harmonic Chart, your Ex did have serious issues related to family units in a Saturn manner.

Your Ex’s 5th Harmonic Chart:
https://ibb.co/Q8jJsYX

Please note your Ex’s partile Sun 180 Node which I find most interesting the same Sun-Node symbolism appeared on the ASC in the Composite Chart. Note also his 5th Harmonic Saturn forms a partile triangle with his 5H Sun-Node 180. At the very least his 5H aspects as I understand the new teachings I am learning was the soul of the soul of his Natal and he definitely experienced this 5H with the breakup with you as a family unit. The writings I am studying strongly suggest the 5H is looked upon by the Pythagoreans “as the number of marriage”! In this sense, his “marriage” was symbolized to experience Saturn Separation with the main partile aspects in his 5th Harmonic Chart. I would not beat myself-up thinking you were to blame for this separation. Please take all of this as a grain of salt because it is new astrological exploration by me. If you want to understand how his 5th Harmonic node fits into this discussion, read Ebertin’s words on the “The Dragon’s Head” (Node), its most enlightening looking at your Ex’s 5H chart. Thanks for allowing me further explorations with his Natal.

[Venus_Daily]

Thank You, Steve

[SteveS]

Venus, I have just finished reading 3 books on Harmonics and I thought I would quote you some words about the 9th Harmonic (Navamsa chart) showing your 9th Harmonic chart to you (link below).

For example it is said that one of the primary meanings of the Navamsa chart is that it describes the marriage partner. Thus we see some indication of why the number 9 and so the Navamsa chart, should be connected with the marriage partner. My own experience with the Navamsa and the marriage partner and his or her is often very well shown. At other times it is not very obvious and one has to consider in what way the Navamsa is descriptive of the marriage partner or, in some other way, of his or her “ideal”. John Addey

Venus, when I look at the partile aspects in your Navamsa chart combined with the Synastry & Composite Charts, it adds more symbolism for your “haunting marriage.” But remember, a possible new marriage partner will completely change the Synastry & Composite symbolism. Anyway, I though your Navamsa was a most interesting chart which could swing either way, benefic or malefic, depending on the symbolism in the Synastry and/or the Composite.

You may want to contemplate those close/partile aspects in your Navamsa chart in order to learn things, but remember, the Navamsa chart was only mainly practiced in India and we in the West know little of all the different methods Indian Astrology applied to the Navamsa chart, partile aspects is only one method and it is a Sidereal Astrology method. Remember the Navamsa is describing your Ex---not you. And again, the more I probe into your “haunting” experience with him-- the more I understand the afflicting “haunting” experience he laid upon you. Try and let him go and live your own individual life with your own bright future.

Venus Navamsa Chart
https://ibb.co/pvhm5Fw

[Jim Eshelman]

I think you'll find that the Novien is far more reliable than the Navamsa. - This chart is volatile but not necessarily bad, e.g., Mercury-Mars-Pluto could be argumentative or have many positive traits. What makes it more severe is that the Mercury-Mars-Pluto in the Novien is right on natal Moon (Pluto is square Moon within minutes): Just move everything in your chart forward 120° (a trine).

Burt historically - and in my experience as well - neither the Navamsa in India nor the Novien in Sidereal astrology is said to describe the conditions of the marriage but, rather, to be an important layer of synastry (or, sometimes, to describe the partner. This is usually in quite simple ways. For example, my Novien Moon at 6°36' Libra is a degree and a half from conjunct my first wife's Sun and 0°18' from square Anna-Kria's Venus. Marion's Novien Moon is a closely square my Sun. I have a study posted somewhere on this forum showing that, across my sexual history, women's natal planets aspecting my Novien Moon, Sun, Venus, and Mars were shockingly frequent. This sort of thing.

[Jim Eshelman]

Along these lines, in the case of Venus and her ex, we find:

V's Novien Sun 14°30' Cap, E's natal Sun 14°07' Ari
V's Novien Venus 3°21' Leo, E's natal Mars 4°11' Leo
V's Novien Mars 23°21' Pis, E's natal Moon 26°36' Vir
E's Novien Moon shares and V's natal Moon both in Sagittarius
E's Novien Sun-Mars (35') on V's natal Venus-Jupiter

Etc. (there's more, both conventionally good and bad but, especially STRONG).

[SteveS]

I want to make myself perfectly clear with my posts on this thread: They all should be taken with a “grain of salt”. They are not a part of Sidereal Astrology teachings. They are exploratory charts into the world of close relationships with methods of the Navamsa chart. We know the astrologers of India used these type charts for looking into relationships but that don’t make em verified methods in the West. Jim has expressed doubts with his research on the Navamsa chart, and Jim is the best research astrologer I know.

Venus has enough experience studying astrology to make her own judgements about the exploratory examples I am posting. The only reason I injected harmonic charts into this thread is for possible use with examining close relationships, and the fact I am just coming off reading a whole lot of new material for me on harmonic charts by other well-known astrologers who find em very interesting, which I also find interesting using mainly partile aspects and close orb aspects. What I am doing is introducing a new method by looking at these charts with partile aspects. Partile aspects are 1 degree or less and are an important part of Sidereal Astrology teachings, but certainly don’t mean my examples for Venus are solidly valid.

I will post another example of the Navamsa chart of each person in a relationship compared to their Natal’s for partile/close aspects as applied to Venus and her ex to see if they offer any clues for explaining Venus relationship about her Ex. Venus, if you prefer I didn’t-- please let me know by PM, and I will understand.

[SteveS]

John Addey in his book “Harmonics in Astrology” makes it very clear In India the Navamsa Chart (9th Harmonic was most important for examining possible marriage partners and/or very close relationships.

In an interchange of conversation between Wayne Turner and Jim in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1109

Jim wrote:

I'm extremely skeptical of natal-to-harmonic aspects. Navamasa-to-Navamsa, yes; Navamsa-to-natus, I think almost certainly not. Nonetheless, it's a fair test.

After later putting the “Navamsa-to-natus" to a test in his life of close relationships, Jim Eshelman wrote:

NAVAMSAS
Here are comparisons of natal-to-Navamsa in the same set of sexual relationship charts. Since my Navamsa Sun, Moon, Venus, and Mars have no close hard aspects to any of my natal planets, they're all in the running. I'm using 2° orbs on conjunctions, oppositions, and squares.
I'll say in advance that two observations leap out of these figures. (1) I have to eat crow about my low expectations of Navamsa-to-natal (cross-harmonic) interchanges.

Wayne Turner wrote:

Now we know why these 9th harmonics were highly regarded in India,

Venus, later I am going to put the "Navamsa-to-natus" to a test with you and your Ex charts.

[Jim Eshelman]

To be clear, that was on almost no examples. I'll find the other thread, based on more data, which gave opposite conclusions.

My naive gullibility in the quoted passage above is embarrassing.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is the more important thread: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4025

It's in the Novien subforum.

[Venus_Daily]

Thanks, Jim. How do you calculate the Novien (9+120 degrees) on Solar Fire?

[Venus_Daily]

I've been doing some more research and going over some past charts based on the novien you provided Jim, and I've found some strange things in some harmonic charts and one SSR for some important events that happened between myself and my ex. The moon is currently at 4 degrees and 53 minutes Leo exactly opposite Jupiter. I know it may be some a coincidence but it's very strange.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks, Jim. How do you calculate the Novien (9+120 degrees) on Solar Fire?

There's a trick that I give here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18

We won't need the trick soon. One of the next two versions of TMSA (I forget which one) will have Noviens as an option. (It's probably not until 0.6.)

[Venus_Daily]

Thank You, Jim.