How chart subtleties make a big difference

[Jim Eshelman]

Everyone who is into astrology more than superficially knows the truism that to get a full picture we need a full chart, including birth time. Anyone who has worked with hundreds of people's charts has no trouble understanding how true this is - but it's not easy to find clear teaching examples in the astrological literature.

I'd like to offer the charts of Gina and Jan, two women who happen know each other and run in similar circles, but came from starkly different (culturally different) formative environments and are doing quite different things with their lives. They are born a day apart and at different times of day. Both have Sun in Aries and Moon in Pisces but - to generalize a bit and not put too fine an edge on the micro-details of their lives - Gina especially gives full expression to her Aries Sun (and you can see the Pisces in her when you look) while Jan gives full expression to her Pisces Moon (and you can find the Aries in her when you look). That's actually quite a difference and has led to different life paths.

Gina was born April 21, 1982, 6:18 AM PST, Sacramento, CA. Jan was born April 22, 1982, 2:20 PM JST, in Seoul, South Korea.

Some of the differences are cultural, of course. (Originating environment always makes a difference.) Sacramento and Seoul have quite different expectations of a woman's role, which creates different paths out of the original environment into the rest of their lives.

I could find many things to say they both have in common, and there are hundreds of details about each of their lives, so any brief summary is going to be almost a caricature. Taking that risk, I'll mention that Gina is an entrepreneur with several businesses in motion, former military officer, and lesbian (married), and committed to her personal growth and unfolding. Jan, while also very active, enterprising and committed to her personal unfolding, is most deeply involved in her spiritual growth and a business that provides trainings in spiritual unfolding, and is straight and not permanently partnered. (Like I said, these are nearly caricatures, but tend to highlight the differences.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is Gina's chart from TMSA:

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Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
Mo 06Pi37'06" 04S51 +13°51'   2°57' 04S01 112°30' +19°49' 338°41'  19%  
Su 06Ar39'28" 00S00 +58'33"  29°00' 11N52  82°41' + 9°57' 349°59'  97% F
Me 17Ar36'31" 00N57 + 2°01'  39°21' 16N22  72°52' + 4°49' 354°57'  93% F
Ve 21Aq19'44" 00S30 + 1°05' 347°08' 06S03 126°42' +29°04' 325°16'   2%  
Ma 08Vi32'53" 02N13 -15'39" 183°40' 00N50 289°29' -21°28' 157°22'  14%  
Ju 11Li32'04" 01N27 - 7'37" 214°12' 12S10 259°18' - 6°07' 173°47'  90% F
Sa 23Vi28'40" 02N46 - 4'27" 197°37' 04S30 275°43' -14°17' 165°39'  53%  
Ur 09Sc23'14" 00N10 - 1'57" 241°54' 20S46 235°13' + 8°02' 189°45'  76% F
Ne 02Sg24'52" 01N18 - 0'43" 266°39' 22S06 215°17' +20°43' 213°13'  36%  
Pl 00Li53'58" 17N38 - 1'41" 209°55' 06N38 276°41' + 2°15' 182°16'  99% F
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects         Class 2 Aspects         Class 3 Aspects     
Mo op Ma 01°20' 97% M    Mo op Sa 06°57' 35% M     Ma sq Ne 06°08' 31%  
Mo tr Ur 02°46' 85%      Mo sq Ne 04°12' 67%       Sa co Pl 07°25' 43%  
Su oc Ve 00°20' 98%      Su co Me 04°59' 65% M                          
Me op Ju 01°10' 98% M    Su op Ju 03°48' 80% M                          
Me oc Ne 00°12' 99%      Su op Sa 04°20' 74% M                          
Ma sx Ur 00°50' 99%      Su tr Ne 04°15' 66%                            
Sa oc Ur 00°55' 86%      Su op Pl 05°45' 65%                            
Ne sx Pl 01°31' 96%      Me sx Ve 03°43' 74%

In addition to the Aries Sun and Pisces Moon, we quickly see five foreground planets. Pluto and Sun are closest - they even have a Class 2 opposition - backed up by moderately foreground Mercury and Jupiter (and a whisper of Uranus). This strong Sun and Pluto surely emphasize her Aries Sun side (and the other foreground planets don't contradict this). Furthermore, she has a close Moon-Mars opposition and moderate Moon aspects to Saturn and Neptune - something of a painful Moon condition and one that especially responds back at life in a martial way. Sun OTOH is most closely aspecting Venus - a good Sun - that then splits its attention between Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune (her overall flexible entrepreneurial bent side of her Aries Sun).

Other things that distinguish her from Jan include her close mundane Mercury-Jupiter opposition (business minded): Even though the two women are born 3/4 of a day apart, Jan doesn't have the Mercury-Jupiter because it is location-based (mundane).

Now, here is Jan's chart:

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Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
Mo 15Pi22'42" 05S00 +14°07'  11°02' 00S41 238°52' +32°59' 217°10'  29%  
Su 07Ar16'09" 00S00 +58'32"  29°36' 12N05 230°59' +54°42' 241°11'   0%  
Me 18Ar52'14" 01N03 + 2°00'  40°34' 16N51 219°13' +64°47' 253°25'  42%  
Ve 22Aq00'19" 00S33 + 1°05' 347°47' 05S50 252°18' +12°39' 193°15'  70%  
Ma 08Vi23'13" 02N12 -15'13" 183°31' 00N52  64°56' -27°35'  29°59'  41%  
Ju 11Li27'18" 01N27 - 7'38" 214°07' 12S08  44°42' -57°25'  65°47'   9%  
Sa 23Vi25'53" 02N46 - 4'26" 197°35' 04S29  57°09' -41°12'  46°11'  13%  
Ur 09Sc22'00" 00N10 - 1'58" 241°53' 20S46 344°15' -72°39'  94°51'  98% F
Ne 02Sg24'25" 01N18 - 0'44" 266°39' 22S06 292°43' -60°08' 117°55'  45%  
Pl 00Li52'55" 17N38 - 1'41" 209°54' 06N38  35°34' -39°07'  54°26'   2%  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects         Class 2 Aspects         Class 3 Aspects     
Su oc Ve 00°16' 99%      Mo op Ma 06°59' 49%       Mo op Sa 08°03' 33%  
Ma sx Ur 00°59' 98%      Su op Ju 04°11' 81%       Mo tr Ur 06°01' 34%  
Ma sq Ne 02°04' 92% M    Su tr Ne 04°52' 56%       Me op Ju 07°25' 43%  
Sa oc Ur 00°56' 85%      Su op Pl 06°23' 57%       Sa co Pl 07°27' 42%  
Ne sx Pl 01°31' 95%      Me sx Ve 03°08' 81%                            
                         Me oc Ne 01°28' 64%  

There is only one foreground planet: Uranus 0°47' from Nadir. While Uranus and Pluto have similarities, they also have stark differences. Jan is foremost an Aries-Pisces with Uranus closely angular.

This isn't a reason to expect her Pisces side per se to show, but it IS a reason to expect a very different person than Gina, especially because Jan's Sun and Pluto are explicitly in the immediate background. It's not so much that her Pisces is emphasized as it is that the planets most resembling her Aries Sun are as weak as can be. (Even the Sun-Pluto opposition, a degree wider, starts to look weak by comparison.)

She doesn't have the Class 1 Mercury-Jupiter (there is a very wide, Class 3 aspect, barely countable by any standards). Instead, she has a mundane Mars-Neptune square that Gina doesn't have. Her Sun-Venus octile is about the same orb as Gina, but within Jans chart the Sun-Venus is a stronger aspect, especially since there is no close Moon-Mars to overwhelm or contradict it. (It does more resemble her Pisces side than her Aries side.)

This is already enough to expect two quite different (while quite similar) women, but there are more subtleties to uncover. For example, where Gina has many close Moon aspects (and mostly harsh ones), Jan also has mostly harsh Moon aspects but they are all quite wide, not at all a dominant feature of her psyche and life.

We're used to considering people born the same day with different birth times as having different angular planets and different Moon aspects. These examples also highlight the differences that different mundane aspects can make based on geography.

[Jim Eshelman]

Finally, we may want to use TMSA's Cosmic State report to understand what differences matter to individual planets. In the examples below, for each planet examined I'll list Gina first, Jan second.

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Mo Pi  B | op Ma 01°20'M   tr Ur 02°46'    sq Ne 04°12'    op Sa 06°57'M   
Mo Pi    | op Ma 06°59'    tr Ur 06°01'    op Sa 08°03'    

Gina's Moon is background (though Jan's nearly is background). They both have harsh Moon aspects, but Gina's are closer, stronger, the closest one being a very big deal in her chart. Jan 's are less pronounced. We might, therefore, expect any character traits and life choices that come from a more bludgeoned natal Moon.

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Su Ar+ F | oc Ve 00°20'    op Ju 03°48'M   op Sa 04°20'M   tr Ne 04°15'    
         | co Me 04°59'M   op Pl 05°45'    
Su Ar+ B | oc Ve 00°16'    op Ju 04°11'    op Pl 06°23'    tr Ne 04°52'    

One Sun is foreground, the other background - a stark difference consistent with their life choices and styles. Both have Sun-Venus close, Sun-Jupiter moderate; the other aspects trickle off from there (with Gina having a mundane-only Sun-Mercury conjunction). The biggest difference is the angularity, the biggest commonality their positive, kind, generous ways of reaching out into the world.

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Me Ar  F | Mo Pi-
         | oc Ne 00°12'    op Ju 01°10'M   sx Ve 03°43'    co Su 04°59'M   
Me Ar    | Mo Pi-
         | sx Ve 03°08'    oc Ne 01°28'    op Ju 07°25'    

Similar; but a day's motion by Mercury plus a location-specific mundane aspect made a difference. Though Jan shows her Pisces side more, Gina's Mercury most closely aspects Neptune and Jupiter which gives a metaphysical "trust and then roll the dice" bent to mind, while also making it more business-minded. (Those aspects are weaker for Jan.)

Their Venus Cosmic States have no relevant differences; and Mars CS's have little difference.

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Ju Li  F | op Me 01°10'M   op Su 03°48'M   
Ju Li  B | op Su 04°11'    op Me 07°25'    

For Jupiter, the big difference is foreground vs. background. Gina's Jupiter near Descendant is an extraverted Jupiter, expressing dynamically out into the world, in connection with measurable prosperity and esteem, etc. She also has the much closer Mercury aspect, and the mundane Sun-Jupiter is closer. Jupiter foreground tightly aspecting Mercury (and moderately aspecting Sun) portrays a different person than one who has Jupiter background with no close aspects (even with a moderate opposition to Sun).

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Sa Vi    | Su Ar-
         | oc Ur 00°55'    op Su 04°20'M   co Pl 07°25'    op Mo 06°57'M   
Sa Vi  B | Su Ar-
         | oc Ur 00°56'    co Pl 07°27'    op Mo 08°03'    

Saturn isn't hugely difference: Jan has it background, while Gina's middleground Saturn pulls a moderate mundane opposition to Sun. There is clearly more Saturn (material, survival) operating in Gina than Jan, but it isn't a dominant planet for either of them.

The differences in the Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto CS's have been incorporated into earlier remarks above. Pluto is the biggest difference, being foreground in one and in the immediate background in the other.