introduction, midlife career crisis / Uranus opposition

[dflow]

Hi Everyone!
I'm new to this forum but have been voraciously absorbing posts for about a week -- I feel like I know some of you already from reading so many of your posts I really appreciate the deep dives and civil discussion happening here, and I wanted to introduce myself but wasn't sure where to start. Being astrologers, I suppose discussing my chart would be a good start

I have been learning astrology over the last year or so and for fun have been experimenting with programming my own astrology software in Ruby. I've done a deep dive on harmonics, and Vedic astrology, and now have landed here in Western Sidereal which really makes the most sense to me (I'm a bit put off by the fatalism of Vedic astrology, and really love how Jim calls it "astromancy").

Here is my birth data per my birth certificate.
* May 8th 1979 10:57AM AHDT (GMT-9) Anchorage, AK (precise hospital location: 61N12'39 149W49'42)

(I'm quite interested in rectifying it with Topocentric Primary directions in the future, but trying to get Polaris running on my Mac has been a real PITA so far. Haven't tried installing TMSA yet either.)

So to start the discussion about my chart, I am nearing my 44th birthday and culmination of Uranus opposition transit. I also have Sun opp. Uranus (sort of a big "middle finger" in my chart ), and I've been describing the current Uranus transit as "bulldozing" my natal Sun in the 10th house (in forward and reverse ). I'm a polymath and have been struggling with finding a stable career as I have so any interests... music, computers, healing arts, and now astrology.

I was a bookish and shy child, deeply into computers and music, and ended up getting a degree in electrical engineering and computer science (hello Uranus), where I got into the electronic music / rave scene and specialized in digital signal processing for music and audio. I also have athletic tendencies (always imagined in a parallel universe I might have been a professional dancer) but had an inner battle of "jock vs nerd" in which the nerd won out (Mercury/Mars vs Venus?). I also have some activist tendencies for social change, and used to kind of get off on shocking people (Eris conjunct MC?).

For about 15 years I worked as a consultant doing computer programming, but eventually burnt out and returned to my passion for healing arts (learned Reiki in high school, went to massage school after college and did ongoing continuing ed in Rolfing, homeopath, energy anatomy, “we-space” practices, and loads of other esoteric stuff). Doing bodywork professionally led me to work with kundalini energy ("higher octaves of Eros", as I call it) and trauma clearing and breathwork. My hands-on practice came to a big halt during the pandemic as I was an unessential worker, and I moved into breathwork which I could do remotely.

On the other hand, working 1-on-1 feels somewhat unsatisfying to me… I aspire to work as a leader and teacher, but am also scared of it. I also aspire to invent healing technology that will help people on a larger scale.

Along with the career crisis, what’s been surfacing for me during this Uranus return is some childhood/karmic emotional baggage I still haven’t quite worked through yet. I have a strange existential chip on my shoulder where I can be really hard on myself and never feel “good enough”. I wonder how this might relate to my Cancer ascendant and Pluto and moon in Virgo?

On top of all this, I got married 9 months ago… and my husband and I are in the middle of selling our house and moving to Scotland where we will start a new life. Hoping to be there for my SSR. I think that will put me close to Uranus on Ascendant, Sun on Descendant, Node on MC trine Chiron. Pretty good for a healing arts / technology career I suppose.

If my mundoscope calculations are correct, my most angular planet is Venus (1º before MC in mundoscope, and partile square Vertex on the Meridian), which is also opp. Pluto. I also have natal Eris conj. Venus which I think does fit to my bold and frank attitude around sexuality.

I’ve heard some call nodal squares a karmic missed step / opportunity… I have Neptune square nodes. Curious if anyone has insight on that.

There’s also a loose square with Jupiter and Mercury which can lead to grand unfulfilled ideas and “speaking to chickens before they have hatched”.

Another interesting aspect is partile Saturn quintile Uranus. I think I read somewhere that this is a good aspect for astrologers?

Would love to hear any and all thoughts on my chart / situation. Thanks!

[Jim Eshelman]

Welcome to Solunars, dflow.

To get things started, I notice you gave all your birth data except the day, month, and year

[dflow]

Hahah oh dear I guess I wrote that too late last night and overlooked some essential copying and pasting. I’ve edited the post with the missing info.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is my birth data per my birth certificate.
* May 8th 1979 10:57AM AHDT (GMT-9) Anchorage, AK (precise hospital location: 61N12'39 149W49'42)

Thanks for the correction/completion.

I'm quite interested in rectifying it with Topocentric Primary directions in the future... Haven't tried installing TMSA yet either.)

Wow, I consider trying to rectify a recorded birthtime to an inconvenient minute (like 10:57 AM) an atrocity But to each his or her own.

TMSA is WIndows-only. You can run it on your Mac if you're running a Win 10 or 11 version of Windows on the Mac. (I recommend the software strongly!)

So to start the discussion about my chart, I am nearing my 44th birthday and culmination of Uranus opposition transit. I also have Sun opp. Uranus (sort of a big "middle finger" in my chart ), and I've been describing the current Uranus transit as "bulldozing" my natal Sun in the 10th house (in forward and reverse ).

I'd see your Sun in 11th (not that I want to over-emphasize houses). Normally I would think that someone so beautifully Uranian as you (with the close Sun-Uranus opposition) would take easily and naturally to major Uranus transits. Everyone has a lot of reorientation during the late 30s, early 40s "age of opposition" when every planet in the sky opposes itself (except Neptune and Pluto which hit the square).

Looking at your major transits, Uranus to your Sun-Uranus and the pending Saturn half-cycle do seem to be the biggest things going - except for that people Jupiter crossing of your MC and Venus.

You might enjoy the following printout of the reports on your chart from TMSA. (Just scroll inside the green part to see it, or copy the whole thing to a text editor like Notepad.)

Code: Select all

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
Mo 14Vi20'50"  2N 0 +12°24' 188°52'  1S39   7°38' -30°14'  77° 9'  61%   
Su 23Ar10'37"  0N 0 +58' 1"  45°10' 17N 5 141° 4' +41° 6' 305°46'  89% Z 
Me  2Ar 4' 9"  2S32 + 1°38'  25°31'  7N52 167°38' +36° 8' 286°21'  65%   
Ve 24Pi26'28"  1S42 + 1°12'  18° 5'  5N49 176°51' +34°34' 274°34'  94% M 
Ma 29Pi59'52"  0S45 +45'29"  22°55'  8N46 170°44' +37°16' 281°57'  72%   
Ju  7Cn23'59"  0N40 + 7'20" 124°16' 20N24  64° 1' + 9°13' 349°46'  74%   
Sa 12Le37'35"  1N58 - 0' 5" 159°32' 10N45  36°14' -12°42'  20°52'  57%   
Ur 24Li35'46"  0N21 - 2'32" 226°41' 17S 9 319°13' -40°41' 127°13'  29%   
Ne 25Sc29'55"  1N27 - 1'18" 259°11' 21S37 282°25' -31°24' 147°59'   0%   
Pl 22Vi35'30" 17N38 - 1'23" 202°28'  9N36 352°42' -18°58' 110°16'  58%   
Er 20Pi11'53" 19S13 + 0'34"  20°58' 11S57 174°23' +16°42' 288° 3'  62%   
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects         Class 2 Aspects         Class 3 Aspects     
Mo sq Ju  2°38' 81% M    Mo op Er  5°51' 64%       Mo co Pl  8°15' 30%  
Su op Ur  1°25' 98%      Me sq Sa  4°31' 45% M     Me co Ve  7°38' 40%  
Me co Ma  2° 4' 95%      Me op Pl  3°55' 78% M     Me sq Ju  5°20' 47%  
Me co Er  1°43' 96% M    Ve co Ma  5°33' 67%       Me tr Ne  6°34' 22%  
Ve tr Ne  1° 3' 98%      Ve co Er  4°15' 81%       Ma sq Ju  7°24'  2%  
Ve op Pl  1°51' 96%      Ma tr Ne  4°30' 62%       Ma oc Sa  2°22' 35%  
Sa sq Pl  0°36' 99% M    Ma co Er  6° 6' 49% M     Ma op Pl  7°24' 43%  
Sa sq Er  2°49' 78% M                              Ne tr Er  5°18' 48%  
Ne sx Pl  2°54' 84%                                                     
Pl op Er  2°13' 93% M                                                   
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Cosmic State                              
Mo Vi    | sq Ju  2°38'M   op Er  5°51'    co Pl  8°15'    
Su Ar+ F | op Ur  1°25'    
Me Ar    | Mo Vi+
         | co Er  1°43'M   co Ma  2° 4'    op Pl  3°55'M   sq Ju  5°20'    
         | sq Sa  4°31'M   co Ve  7°38'    tr Ne  6°34'    
Ve Pi+ F | Mo Vi- Su Ar-
         | tr Ne  1° 3'    op Pl  1°51'    co Er  4°15'    co Ma  5°33'    
         | co Me  7°38'    
Ma Pi    | co Me  2° 4'    co Ve  5°33'    tr Ne  4°30'    co Er  6° 6'M   
         | op Pl  7°24'    oc Sa  2°22'    sq Ju  7°24'    
Ju Cn+   | sq Mo  2°38'M   sq Me  5°20'    sq Ma  7°24'    
Sa Le    | Su Ar-
         | sq Pl  0°36'M   sq Er  2°49'M   sq Me  4°31'M   oc Ma  2°22'    
Ur Li    | op Su  1°25'    
Ne Sc  B | Mo Vi-
         | tr Ve  1° 3'    sx Pl  2°54'    tr Ma  4°30'    tr Er  5°18'    
         | tr Me  6°34'    
Pl Vi    | Su Ar+
         | sq Sa  0°36'M   op Ve  1°51'    op Er  2°13'M   sx Ne  2°54'    
         | op Me  3°55'M   op Ma  7°24'    co Mo  8°15'    
Er Pi    | co Me  1°43'M   op Pl  2°13'M   co Ve  4°15'    sq Sa  2°49'M   
         | op Mo  5°51'    co Ma  6° 6'M   tr Ne  5°18'    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Created by TMSA 0.4.9.2  (28 Mar 2023)

[Jim Eshelman]

From the TMSA report, we easily see that your luminaries are Aries-Virgo (I knew you had a Spoke Moon, and probably Virgo, I read your initial post during my commute this morning).

We can easily see that Venus and Sun are your two foreground planets - Venes moderately angular 4°34' from MC, Sun widely angular 2°29' from Zenith. Neptune is deeply background.

Your single strongest aspect is your middleground Saturn square Pluto (0°36'), though it isn't very personal. The four important are probably Moon square Jupiter, Sun opposite Uranus, Mercury conjunct Mars, and Venus opposite Pluto. These four aspects in the context of Aries-Virgo luminaries probably sum up almost everything important about you.

Treating the planets as primarily embodying basic needs, here is a ranking of the relative strengths of the ten primary universal needs groups on a 0-100% scale:

98% - Uranus
94% - Venus
90% - Sun Mercury Pluto
81% - Jupiter
80% - Saturn
72% - Mars
61% - Moon
0% - Neptune

[Jim Eshelman]

I also have athletic tendencies (always imagined in a parallel universe I might have been a professional dancer) but had an inner battle of "jock vs nerd" in which the nerd won out

This was one of the clues of the Virgo Moon (I already knew it had to be Spoke from your description of highly scattered interests). What I find fascinating is that, with Venus at Midheaven, the jock fantasies took a distinctly venereal form.

(Mercury/Mars vs Venus?). I also have some activist tendencies for social change, and used to kind of get off on shocking people (Eris conjunct MC?).

I'd say Aries Sun opposite Uranus - pretty classic pairing of the two sets of energies. Uranus is enough to turn the already contrary, political, and often unconforming Aries into an activist at least (if not an outright rebel).

Eris isn't really conjunct Midheaven. With over 19° south latitude, its more than 18° away from MC (as you can see in the PVL column of the TMSA report above).

On the other hand, working 1-on-1 feels somewhat unsatisfying to me… I aspire to work as a leader and teacher, but am also scared of it. I also aspire to invent healing technology that will help people on a larger scale.

That would, of course, be a really important contribution, toward which I encourage you; and yes, there is a lot in your chart (Aries Sun, angular Sun, Moon-Jupiter square) that confirms it's important to you to be important and leading.

Along with the career crisis, what’s been surfacing for me during this Uranus return is some childhood/karmic emotional baggage I still haven’t quite worked through yet. I have a strange existential chip on my shoulder where I can be really hard on myself and never feel “good enough”. I wonder how this might relate to my Cancer ascendant and Pluto and moon in Virgo?

There might be some Virgo Moon stuff there (especially if bullying was involved), though by first thought is that it fits Aries Sun quite a lot. See the whole section on Sun in Aries to see if you can catch my drift on that: https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35#p167

You don't say what kind of trauma. The "parent markers" on your chart are in pretty good shape other than Pluto in the 4th House (but not foreground) suggesting disruption or disturbance of the early "nest." You much want to be your own authority, which could suggest trouble with overbearing parental authority, Overall, though, that part of the early environment looks pretty good,

I'd think, instead, that it involved other children - possibly siblings, but other children overall, and perhaps some Venus-Pluto themed disturbance. Want to say anything further about it?

On top of all this, I got married 9 months ago… and my husband and I are in the middle of selling our house and moving to Scotland where we will start a new life.

Well, that's a way to handle the era of change in your life! Congratulations on your marriage, btw.

I think that will put me close to Uranus on Ascendant, Sun on Descendant, Node on MC trine Chiron. Pretty good for a healing arts / technology career I suppose.

Where in Scotland?

As mentioned and shown earlier, Venus has PV longitude (mundoscope position) of 274°34', or 4°34' east of MC. Venus has no connection to Vertex, either ecliptically or mundanely. (Presuming your meridian longitude data is correct, you are seeing the effect of Venus near meridian, I think.)

Your Mercury has a LOT of aspects. Aside from the close mundane conjunction with Eris, it is especially marked by its close conjunction with Mars and (mundane) opposition with Pluto. Jupiter's square is moderate-to-wide and there are three more aspects even wider. Mostly, though, I think the Mercury focus (especially in Aries) is in the close aspects with Mars and Pluto. Any grandiosity is from the Aries Sun and Moon-Jupiter square, I think - Mercury square Jupiter might tend a bit to fluff, but most things attributable to it are neutralized by the mundane Mercury-Saturn square at almost the same orb.

[Jim Eshelman]

Because I had filtered it out, I missed that you have a 1°05' Sun-Sedna mundane conjunction. It's even a tad closer than your Sun-Uranus opposition. We're still sorting out Sedna's meaning and its relative importance but, from what I've seen, here is my "working interpretation."

Warm, affectionate, charismatic. Defiant and outspoken. Creatures of powerful emotions and passions, favoring feelings over facts; yet intensely curious, seeking intense experience. At worst: darkly monstrous. (Sacrifice, voluntary or involuntary, may be a theme.)

[Patrick Machado]

Welcome to Solunars, you with Moon in the degree of Mercury's exaltation.

[dflow]

thanks so much for your generous responses Jim!

I'd say Aries Sun opposite Uranus - pretty classic pairing of the two sets of energies. Uranus is enough to turn the already contrary, political, and often unconforming Aries into an activist at least (if not an outright rebel).

hmm, that makes sense. I'm freshly de-conditioning myself from tropical zodiac, thinking for decades I was a Taurus sun with Leo rising.
I just read up on the forum on sidereal Pisces and compared that to what I know about tropical Aries, which was helpful. Did the same with sidereal Taurus and tropical Gemini too.

Wow, I consider trying to rectify a recorded birthtime to an inconvenient minute (like 10:57 AM) an atrocity But to each his or her own.

Mostly I'm curious about getting down to the seconds level in order to see if Harmonic Age charts have any validity for me, just for nerd pleasure

Eris isn't really conjunct Midheaven. With over 19° south latitude, its more than 18° away from MC (as you can see in the PVL column of the TMSA report above).

Apparently my mundoscope calculations are way off (you can see the chart I made in the other thread on the "Vertescope").
I'll look more deeply at the numbers you pasted from TMSA and see what I'm doing wrong.

Where in Scotland?

We're going to start out in Edinburgh and feel it out from there.

You don't say what kind of trauma. The "parent markers" on your chart are in pretty good shape other than Pluto in the 4th House (but not foreground) suggesting disruption or disturbance of the early "nest." You much want to be your own authority, which could suggest trouble with overbearing parental authority, Overall, though, that part of the early environment looks pretty good,

I'd think, instead, that it involved other children - possibly siblings, but other children overall, and perhaps some Venus-Pluto themed disturbance. Want to say anything further about it?

There was intense birth trauma, where my lungs weren't fully developed and I had to be incubated for several days. This gave me an imprint of "struggle to survive" and "can't trust life," but what I'm mentioning in my original post feels a bit different, sort of like some cosmic/existential guilt that is always in the background related to "not good enough." I wasn't ever bullied but did have some emotional wounding from cousins and older sister. I tried so hard to keep up with older children as I urgently wanted to be their peer, but the reality of being actually younger always caught up with me.

Thankfully my parents are decent people and never directly abused me. Psychologically, I think there must have been some disruption in the Erikson's "Autonomy vs. Doubt/Shame" stage. My mother's large persona and over-helpfulness often feels intrusive to my highly sensitive and willful nature. I developed an Enneagram type 5 strategy of retreating to my inner intellectual world where I could feel safe and in control, since I didn't feel sufficient agency or emotional depth in my early environment. I'll save the rest for my therapist

BTW what is a "spoke moon"?

[SteveS]

Welcome to the forum dflow. It will be a very good fit for you with your Virgo Moon learning new astrological material.

[SteveS]

Dflow wrote:

On top of all this, I got married 9 months ago… and my husband and I are in the middle of selling our house and moving to Scotland where we will start a new life. Hoping to be there for my SSR. I think that will put me close to Uranus on Ascendant, Sun on Descendant, Node on MC trine Chiron. Pretty good for a healing arts / technology career I suppose.

Hi dflow, on this forum our go to charts are the solunars charts particularly the Sidereal Solar Return (SSR). Jim is a professional on relocating SSRs charts for optimum manifestations. Have you and your new husband made a firm final decision for moving to Edinburgh?

[Jim Eshelman]

Eris isn't really conjunct Midheaven. With over 19° south latitude, its more than 18° away from MC (as you can see in the PVL column of the TMSA report above).

Apparently my mundoscope calculations are way off (you can see the chart I made in the other thread on the "Vertescope").
I'll look more deeply at the numbers you pasted from TMSA and see what I'm doing wrong.

What astrological software do you primarily use? Most of the major packages have a way of showing prime vertical longitude.

Where in Scotland?

We're going to start out in Edinburgh and feel it out from there.

Edinburgh makes for quite a nice solar return this coming year. Transiting Jupiter is most angular, 0°16' from WP in RA, with Mars close to MC (1°26') and a little Pluto. Among natal planets, natal Mercury and Mars are most tightly angular, but with natal Venus quite close and a smidge of Jupiter. Wherever you are in the world, Moon opposes Venus 0°11'. Benefic heavy but with enough Mars to keep the adventure up. In the foreground, Jupiter and Pluto (which are in near-partile mundane square) both aspect your Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter, while transiting Mars aspects your natal Venus-Mars.

There was intense birth trauma, where my lungs weren't fully developed and I had to be incubated for several days. This gave me an imprint of "struggle to survive" and "can't trust life," but what I'm mentioning in my original post feels a bit different, sort of like some cosmic/existential guilt that is always in the background related to "not good enough." ... I tried so hard to keep up with older children as I urgently wanted to be their peer, but the reality of being actually younger always caught up with me.

The birth trauma isn't obvious to me from the chart. (Saturn is stationary, but that scoops up everyone in the world for several days and it doesn't do anything in particular after that.) I'm not sure birth trauma itself shows in one's chart (in a sense it happens before the chart comes into being), but we're certainly used to seeing the consequences of it. Nothing I see in the chart points directly to the lungs or respiratory problems (some vague possibilities, but not the clean showing I'd expect). I'll have to file this as an unsolved mystery for myself at the moment. (The best I can do: An indirect midpoint Moon = Mercury/Neptune: I'd like something much sharper and more fundamental than that.)

Aries isn't inherently untrusting. A lot of what you report immediately above seems Saturn-driven and the one important Saturn detail is that it is stationary. I consider this strong, but not as strong as other feature. Some of this is what I might call a "negative Aries" in that the need to be strong, commanding, and even imperial (if I overstate, it's to drive the meaning) is frustrated and you feel that impediment or frustration. But you really do have a lot of Saturn words in that paragraph! <g>

Thankfully my parents are decent people and never directly abused me.

That's the impression I'd have drawn from the chart.

Psychologically, I think there must have been some disruption in the Erikson's "Autonomy vs. Doubt/Shame" stage.

Again, that normally would have been a Saturn interruption.

BTW what is a "spoke moon"?

Mutable. Fagan re-analogized Fixed, Mutable, and Cardinal to the hubs, spokes, and rims of wheels, respectively. Here's a post on that:
https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36#p170

[Jim Eshelman]

dflow, ignore what I said about your Edinburgh solar return. (Steve caught that there was a problem, which I tracked to accidentally using the wrong coordinates.)

Edinburgh is one of the worst places to be on your birthday. transiting Saturn is 0°31' from Asc and natal Saturn 1°25' from Descendant - the two in partile mundane opposition. Don't go until after your birthday. (Have the SSR somewhere else, with good angles, then it won't matter where you move.)

Are you still live in Anchorage or somewhere else? Anchorage gives you the beautiful chart I originally described.

[dflow]

I've been looking at my synodic aspect charts (see related post in Experimental section here, charts here: https://imgur.com/a/taZZawp ) and just noticed that I have a tight mundane trine between Jupiter and Pluto.

From AstroMatrix https://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Plan ... rine-Pluto

...
Your contribution to society may well be in working closely with people; and you have the gift of being able to inspire others to discover how to experience life more intensely and creatively and to release their own latent talents. This can involve you in the expression of a sort of life philosophy which can be adopted by others on their path to self-understanding. Obviously, any such influence must be carefully handled by you, both in how your own self-perception is changed and in what you offer to others or share with them.
...
Primarily, you seem to function in a role of 'educator', and you are likely to develop into an effective speaker, clearly expounding your beliefs, ideas and attitudes, and being quite persuasive in that way. You tend to need personal freedom, and dislike being tied down into predictable patterns of behavior, as you may feel that you need to be relatively free in order to be able to respond to what you consider to be insights and intuitions.
You support social transformation and will reflect the unified vision as the direction for the future, offering a meaning and inspiring purpose for people to aim towards. You may find that a personal transformation is required of you prior to you fulfilling your potential role and function. Initially, this could involve considerable challenges facing you which require overcoming, or elements in your personal life that lead to periodic crises which lead eventually to wisdom and insight as a result of personal suffering.

Feels like a hit to me!

[dflow]

Your single strongest aspect is your middleground Saturn square Pluto (0°36'), though it isn't very personal.

(more from AstroMatrix, one of my go-to choices for aspects)

https://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Plan ... uare-Pluto

Frustration appears to be inevitable; and you may feel that you are having to carry 'a burden for society', where you are involved in some way with a personal responsibility for some of society's troubles. There is a form of linking between your personal unfoldment and growth and the struggles of mass humanity, one which you may experience or interpret in a peculiarly masochistic manner or use as an excuse for personal failings.
Some of this tendency could arise from earlier life and parental relationships and conditioning, possibly from environmental deprivation of lack of fulfilling and meaningful contact with your parents and family. This can lead to a pattern of personal disappointments and lack of essential trust in life and the world, leaving you emotionally marked and feeling insecure in your own abilities and talents.
You tend to be searching for status, power and the opportunity to influence people's lives, much in the same way that you feel your own life has been affected by nameless unknown others who make socially influential decisions. To transform this oppressive pattern of limitation, you will need to radically alter your outlook on life and yourself.
The Pluto energy will help you to achieve this; and the first step is to draw back all the projections that you are overlaying on the world, and to recognize those that place the reason for failure 'out there'. You need to accept responsibility for your own life, decisions and choices, and begin to take control instead of being a frustrated, passive reactor.

This also rings true!

[dflow]

What astrological software do you primarily use? Most of the major packages have a way of showing prime vertical longitude.

I use my own home-brew software since I'm crazy enough to try and reinvent the wheel. I guess it's not as hardcore as using paper and a slide rule, since in my case I have the Swiss [Army] Ephemeris. Anyhow, it's been a great way to learn, though is prone to errors in the beginnings. You probably saw in my other thread that I am rolling my own, but managed to find an already-baked PVL in the library.

[Jim Eshelman]

...just noticed that I have a mundane partile trine between Jupiter and Pluto... Feels like a hit to me!

I hear that it seems to fit. Nonetheless, I'm skeptical that soft mundane aspects exist.

FWIW, the above aspect interpretation doesn't sound at all like Jupiter-Pluto to me. It's themes seem all over the map. I'm curious which specific behaviors you see as fitting: I suspect they are related to simpler, more straightforward indications.

I really detest Astromatrix's stuff. It's like they're scared ever to say something concrete and definite and they have to fit everything into some grand significance. Everything in us IS part of some grand significance, but we get there by bluntly and concretely describing behavior. Here's what I'd say about your Saturn-Pluto.
https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=177#p1171

[dflow]

I really detest Astromatrix's stuff. It's like they're scared ever to say something concrete and definite and they have to fit everything into some grand significance. Everything in us IS part of some grand significance, but we get there by bluntly and concretely describing behavior.

I hear you it is a sort of "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" approach, through for me it gives a flavor to measure personal resonance against. Perhaps it's the other side of extreme examples like in ancient texts, where things are exaggerated for teaching purposes. But on Astromatrix it's watered down to make everyone feel special.

Reading your JU-PL description for my mundane trine also resonates with me a lot. https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=177#p1168
Especially these points:
2. Strong desire to contribute from their distinctive talents or abilities.
4. Joins unapologetic genuineness with commitment to community (= family, group, tribe, etc.); distinctive presence, rarely lost or submerged in a group (social outlier but not aloof or removed). "Of, but not part of..."
7. Many have a hunger to "be something," especially to be noticed, accepted, and affirmed by others for what they (distinctly? exclusively?) are.
8. Success and prosperity fluctuate like a roller-coaster.

Here's what I'd say about your Saturn-Pluto.
https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=177#p1171

These SA-PL points resonate with me too.
1. Independent, stubborn, resists outside control or being told what to do. Runs their own show. Even as an employee, wants autonomy.
2. Lone wolf: A solitary path comes naturally. Partnership or alliance requires choice and effort. Wants never to feel obligated or indebted.
3. A buried darkness (usually from something lost that was basic to them) shapes them in significant ways.
4. Capable of great discipline, conscientious effort, and persistence toward a goal they choose.

[dflow]

I have another question about midpoints... these are the tightest direct ones I found.

in eclipto:
JU = UR/ER (0') direct
MC = NN/UR (4') direct

in mundo:
JU = NN/SO (41') direct

I read in the archives that midpoints to angles should be measured mundanely, does that mean that MC=NN/UR is invalid in eclipto?

I also found indirect mundane JU=VE/PL (18') -- would this give more weight to the JU-PL trine?

[Jim Eshelman]

Reading your JU-PL description for my mundane trine also resonates with me a lot.

Of course, a lot of these are exact or "in the neighborhood" Aries traits. We consider Aries to be of the nature of Pluto and Sun. Not everything you quoted was a clean "hit" for that, but some of it was a description of someone Plutonian and solar at the same time.

Here's what I'd say about your Saturn-Pluto.

I'd expect that to fit a lot, i.e., at least as much as any outer planet aspect (meaning: likely to fit entirely but not necessarily feel "personal"). Some of these, of course, are also a lot like an Aries Sun because they share Pluto traits.

[SteveS]

Dflow wrote:

I read in the archives that midpoints to angles should be measured mundanely, does that mean that MC=NN/UR is invalid in eclipto?

I would answer by my extensive experiences with midpoints: definitely no--it is not invaliid!
From the book “The Combination of Stellar Influences” considered the bible for midpoint delineations by most astrologers, Ebertin writes about your MC-NN/UR:

Fondness of change and variety, tendency to seek stimulating ideas from other people. Sudden recognition of a joint goal, desire to bring plans to fruition together with others.

Does the above Ebetine delineating Tone resonate with your soul/life?
I would guess since Uranus plays such an important role in your Natal/life being a class 1 aspect 1,25 opposed to your Sun, the eclipto MC =NN/UR is a most important midpoint for your life in seeking out other astrologers (“contacts”) for astrological learning purposes for your own individual “goals/objectives” (MC). Uranus playing the role for “excitement” and “enthusiasm” for things astrological---out of the conventional. I have some personal experience with Sun-Uranus since I was born with a partile 90 of Sun-Uranus as a non-active Paran but each day with the rotation of the planet it brings my Natal Sun-Uranus 90 into an active Paran at my residing location. I have found in my life, the best way for an astrologer to handle a potent Uranus aspect in their chart is: whatever strongly resonates with your soul/life in learning all the different techniques of astrology---flow with it and accept it as an astrological truth for your life. For example: By far, when it came to my career and natural birth environment, the most important direct natal midpoint for my life has been my direct natal midpoint of AS/MC =NEP (1,08), it has dominated my life in many different ways---mostly good ways and some negative ways.
When I first started learning astrology, I cut my teeth on a serious study of midpoints as taught by Robert Hand, and have found much truth with his teachings associated with my life. I mainly use direct eclipto midpoints with angles/sun/moon, but in certain cases will pay close attention to mundo midpoints with angles. Midpoints are a somewhat tricky business since you have to combine 3 or more chart factors for delineations. Rarely do I get into delineating a Natal Chart, I am more of a mundane astrologer. But when I am looking at a Natal Chart and conventional Sidereal Astrology does not explain to me something important about the a life (happens at times), most of the time-- direct midpoints will explain that something that is important.

[Jim Eshelman]

I missed this post entirely. Thanks to Steve for bringing it to my attention.

I have another question about midpoints... these are the tightest direct ones I found.

in eclipto:
JU = UR/ER (0') direct
MC = NN/UR (4') direct

Using the 10 basic planets, here is a midpoint report from TMSA. The d and i distinguish direct (0/180/90) and indirect (45/135) contacts. "Angle" at the end is the one mundane contact to an angle.

Code: Select all

Mo Vi    |    Me/Ne 34'i   
Su Ar+   |    Ur/As 32'i      Ne/Mc 44'd      Me/Sa 50'i      Ne/Pl 52'd   
Me Ar    |    Mo/As 27'i   
Ve Pi+   |    Su/Ne  6'i      Ur/Ne 36'i   
Ma Pi    |    Ju/Pl  0'i      Ju/Mc  8'i      Ve/Ju 55'i   
Ju Cn+   |    Ve/As 10'i      Su/Mc 21'd      Su/Pl 29'd      Pl/As 45'i   
         |    As/Mc 53'i   
Sa Le    |    Me/Pl 18'i      Ve/Ma 24'i      Me/Mc 25'i      Me/Ve 38'i   
Ur Li    |    Ve/Ne 22'd      Ju/Sa 25'd      Ne/Pl 33'd      Ne/Mc 41'd   
Ne Sc    |    Ma/As  9'd      Me/As 53'd      Ve/Ur 59'i   
Pl Vi    |    Mo/Ma 25'd      Ne/As 30'd      Mo/Me 37'd      Ve/Mc 48'd   
As Cn    |    Ma/Sa 37'i      Mo/Ne 46'd   
Mc Pi    |    Mo/Ma 10'd      Ne/As 46'd      Mo/Me 52'd   
Angle    |    Mo/Ma 27'M

For this planet set, the closest direct contacts is Ne=Ma/As (9'), though with indirect you get the very precise Ma=Ju/Pl (0').

I read in the archives that midpoints to angles should be measured mundanely, does that mean that MC=NN/UR is invalid in eclipto?

Complicated answer. In mundane astrology (ingresses), it's clear that midpoints to major angles operate ONLY mundanely. However, in natal charts the evidence is not so clear and tends to lean the other way. In THEORY one can argue that mundane midpoints to angles are the only way they should work, but in practice - as Steve said - the ecliptic ones at least work and may work better - even exclusively. After writing the theoretical argument, I did another project examining these in practice, and for natals it's the ecliptical midpoint contacts that are easy to demonstrate.

For example, in your case, the only thing I see that shows the violence of your birth moment is Asc = Ma/Sa = Mo/Ne. This is quite compelling. I didn't mention it before half because I'm not sure how much we can rely on the birth chart to show events prior to the first breath, and partly because I didn't want to drop into the esoterica of midpoints when initially summarizing your chart.

I suspect what's true is that - as with ingresses - mundane midpoints to major angles are valid in nativities when both planets are foreground and the mundane midpoint is merely isolating a narrow time when their combination is most effective - possibly not even a real midpoint, possibly only a "time centering" of the two angularities. We don't have enough data yet to be sure: For example, your Moon/Mars midpoint in PVL being on all four of your major angles is impossible to assess because, ecliptically, you have MC = Mo/Ma (10') anyway. But (as another example), perhaps my Moon/Eris on angles mundanely is valid, with Moon 3°15' below Dsc and Eris 3°26' above it - as a centering of their respective exact angularities.

Of course, that's suspect unless it turns out I'm rightly thought a mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier disruptor who navigates the swarm of chaos more easily than most. <g>

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I suspect what's true is that - as with ingresses - mundane midpoints to major angles are valid in nativities when both planets are foreground and the mundane midpoint is merely isolating a narrow time when their combination is most effective - possibly not even a real midpoint, possibly only a "time centering" of the two angularities.

Yes, this is exactly what I suspect is true. I always look at foreground clusters of planets checking their mundo midpoints.

[dflow]

From the book “The Combination of Stellar Influences” considered the bible for midpoint delineations by most astrologers, Ebertin writes about your MC-NN/UR:

Fondness of change and variety, tendency to seek stimulating ideas from other people. Sudden recognition of a joint goal, desire to bring plans to fruition together with others.

Does the above Ebetine delineating Tone resonate with your soul/life?
I would guess since Uranus plays such an important role in your Natal/life being a class 1 aspect 1,25 opposed to your Sun, the eclipto MC =NN/UR is a most important midpoint for your life in seeking out other astrologers (“contacts”) for astrological learning purposes for your own individual “goals/objectives” (MC). Uranus playing the role for “excitement” and “enthusiasm” for things astrological---out of the conventional.

Thanks Steve, yes that does resonate! Definitely am jazzed up by sharing and conversing about unconventional astrological tidbits. Have you seen my post over here on synodic phase charts? https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=7326

I also found indirect mundane JU=VE/PL (18') -- would this give more weight to the JU-PL trine?

Oops this was incorrect, I had a bug in my software... (the danger of rolling my own) but I do have JU = SO/PL (29') in eclipto.

[dflow]

I'm looking at my novien chart now: https://imgur.com/a/wXOOQUl

haven't done any biwheel comparisons with natal chart yet, so these are all Novien references:

- Moon same sign as radix Moon (Virgo) - it's the only planet "Hub-vargottama" in the Novien)
- Moon conj. Uranus. - [expressing my Uranian energy is integral to my happiness?]
- Moon square Venus
- Moon & Uranus trine Jupiter and AC
- partile Saturn conj. Pluto [large ambitions?]
- partile Node opp. Mars [??]
- Moon + Uranus T-square Ceres opp. Venus
- Neptune opp. Chiron

I think there's also an indirect midpoint, MO=SO/NE (5')

[SteveS]

Dflow wrote:

Thanks Steve, yes that does resonate! Definitely am jazzed up by sharing and conversing about unconventional astrological tidbits. Have you seen my post over here on synodic phase charts?

You are welcome dflow. Yes, I have just read your post about synodic phase charts, but with my first reading it didn’t make much astrological common sense to me, but I have always been a slow learner of new things. Maybe, if you could take my Natal with Jupiter as the focus planet, and explain to me what you see as the most important “synodic phase” planet in my chart related to the focus of Jupiter pertaining to my past career in the film industry, I could make a connection to this synodic phase technique. I always try to keep an open mind.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm looking at my novien chart now

I'm am deeply suspicious of soft aspects in the Novien - I've seen few that contribute meaningfully and many that are outright contradictions. I think only conjunctions, oppositions, and squares are relevant (which amounts to a 10° aspect series at the natal-zodiacal level, with tiny orbs).

I'm also suspicious of using midpoints in the Novien. If nothing else, this amplifies the amount of data far beyond the noise level.

LOL, when you strip out soft aspects, midpoints, nodes, and asteroids, the only things on your list that catches my attention are the Moon aspects to Uranus and Venus, and Saturn conjunct Pluto.

I'll try to find time to glance at your Novien later today and see what I see.

[Jim Eshelman]

Now that I'm looking at the chart, the strongest things in your Novien are what I mentioned above: Moon conjunct Uranus with both square Venus, and Saturn conjunct Pluto. These are discernible (if one looks for them) as 10° multiples in the natal:

14°21' Vir - Moon
24°26' Pis - Venus
24°36' Sco - Uranus

12°30' Leo - Saturn
22°36' Vir - Pluto

What you can't view off the face of the natal, and seem to be important, are aspects between the Novien and natal. This kind of aspect is one of the more important pieces of evidence that Novien positions are objective in some way (and that the Novien isn't just a variation of a 40° dial). You don't have many of these: Jupiter on Novien Jupiter and Neptune on Novien Saturn-Pluto. I find the easiest way to catch these is a two-ring 90° dial, natal outside, Novien inside. Here's how that looks (I'll come back and delete this illustration later).

It occurs to me that the natal Neptune conjunct Novien Saturn-Pluto isn't bad symbolism for your birth trauma and its respiratory impact (since Neptune is involved in most respiratory disorders from asthma on up). The Moon-Uranus aspect is quite good for the way your mind seems to work, and of course their square to Venus.

dflow Novien2.jpg