Mike Pence

[Jim Eshelman]

Jul 15, 2016

Indiana Gov. Michael Pence was born June 7, 1959, hour unknown, in Columbus, IN. His official selection as Donald Trump's running mate was announced in a Trump tweet today at 10:50 PM EDT.

I don't have Solar Fire set up yet on any computer at work, so this is all I have to say at the moment

[Jim Eshelman]

I really thought Trump, given his professional experience, would have had his three semifinalists on stage together, someone nearby holding roses and a crown, as he announced that the second runner-up was Chris Christie, and the first runner-up was Newt Gingrich (crowd goes wild, Mike Pence tears up uncontrollably showing that he was always better at this sort of thing than Boehner)... you know, real TV. But all we got was a stinkin' tweet.

[Jim Eshelman]

Does it help that last night as he got on his plane in California, after the tweet announcing Pence, and after Pence was on a plane to NYC, Trump was trying to find out if he was "locked in" to Pence or could still change his mind?
This was leaked but has been vetted enough to be said out loud on national news.

[Jim Eshelman]

Not really a surprise to me that Trump only tweets. It is a defensive attitude and in my view his entire campaign is rather defensive. It may appear like he is attacking and forceful but he is insecure and allegedly completely overwhelmed by developments. I would not be surprised if the Trump campaign has gone out of control already in the beginning. It may never have been his intention to run for President, it was merely a cheeky attempt to stir-up the GOP I think. Trump’s self-absorbed character had no answer to the support he gathered and the failure of his opponents. I believe he is now cornered and his actions after he had become the only candidate, hints towards a coveted wish that Clinton becomes elected.
Regards,
Flo

[Jim Eshelman]

I think President Obama said it all when he said "The guy wanted to give his hotel business a boost, and now we’re praying that Cleveland makes it through July.”

[Jim Eshelman]

Pence has a Taurus Sun, of course, and apparently a Gemini Moon. (I think it's in Gemini for his entire birth date.) His earlier career was as a radio broadcaster (sort of an "easy listening Rush Limbaugh"), before he headed to the House for six years and then to be Indiana Governor. He has a pretty close Venus-Mars conjunction, square Neptune, with Mars-Neptune probably his most important aspect.

One might guess that 29° Spoke is important in his chart, since there is an exact Sun-Uranus square there today.

Jupiter semisquares his Mars at the moment, and Mars seems within partile orb of conjunct his Jupiter - so every side of Mars-Jupiter combinations can be expected to be part of today's events for him. Another interesting aspect, the meaning of which is not clear to me at all, is the exact Mercury-Venus conjunction in space that exactly conjoins his natal Mars.

[Jim Eshelman]

Feb 15, 2017

Without a birth time, we remain very limited... but I'd like to see whether there are any seeming peak times during the next year or two.

Some time or other this year, he has a progressed New Moon. It may have occurred, or it may still be ahead.

Progressed Mercury conjoins his Uranus this year. Progressed Venus moves into orb of sextile natal Sun.

His Saturn return hits in about a year. If nothing has caused him to reassess his life and own a sense of destiny, that likely will do it. We can't be sure when Saturn is transiting his Moon, but we should keep an eye out for something about that.

But no clear Jupiter transits occur for at least nine months, and the most important of them are in December.

I guess this doesn't add much... just thinking aloud.

[Jim Eshelman]

Inaugurated VP 1/20/2017, Noon, Washington, DC.
Inaugurated Indiana Governor 1/14/2013, probably in Indianapolis.
Married to Karen Whitaker 6/8/1985, after an August 1984 engagement. She was born November 18, 1958, in Kansas.

Karen Pence is a Scorpio-Aquarius, with Sun conjunct Venus on one side and opposite Mars on the other. Moon probably opposes Pluto. Mike's Moon might well be opposite her Saturn (the only planet it stands a chance of aspecting). That would place his Moon close to 0°18' Gemini, the exact opposition to her Saturn, and reawaken the question of whether he has a Taurus or Gemini Moon. (Gemini always seemed right. He even became a radio broadcaster in between times in office.)

So, a starting estimate could be found by putting his Moon opposite her Saturn. This gives 1:45 AM. If the Moon is in Gemini, it is no earlier a birth than 1:09 AM. We can start with 1:45 AM as a "why the hell not" best guess start.

This doesn't put anything angular natally, nor put any of his wife's planets on his angles. (Nor any of Trumps.) One thing of interest, though, is that the 0° Gemini Moon is easily in orb of conjunct Trump's Sun (and opposite his Moon) - this Sun-Moon interchange (now that I see it) seems utterly obvious and likely.

[Jim Eshelman]

Inaugurated VP 1/20/2017, Noon, Washington, DC.
Inaugurated Indiana Governor 1/14/2013, probably in Indianapolis.
Married to Karen Whitaker 6/8/1985, after an August 1984 engagement. She was born November 18, 1958, in Kansas.

He was married June 8, 1985 in Marion Co. (i.e., Indianapolis). For the crudely estimated birth time, transiting Neptune and Mars are each a few degrees from the angles, but nothing is exact, and no close transits touch the Moon.

A Lunar Return for that time puts Sun on Descendant - not bad! - and a Mars-Uranus opposition square MC (and right along his natal Sun). I kinda like it. Natal Jupiter is not far from Asc, but the time would have to be earlier for Jupiter to be a major factor.

His June 3 Demi-SLR is nearly identical angles. Moon is opposite Mars, Uranus is on EP / square MC, transiting Sun squares MC. Of further interest to me is that Karen's Sun-Venus is not far from Ascendant (his Jupiter conjoins them).

So... these aren't bad.

He has no progressed Moon aspects for this event. His SNQ would be better if the angles were about 5° further along, or about 20 minutes later. But, of greater interest, his wedding was the day after his birthday, and two days after his new SSR. For the 1:45 AM time, Saturn is rising - not encouraging - but for about 5° later, his natal Jupiter is closer. In general, though, I'm not very taken with this SSR.

[Jim Eshelman]

Inaugurated VP 1/20/2017, Noon, Washington, DC.
Inaugurated Indiana Governor 1/14/2013, probably in Indianapolis.
Married to Karen Whitaker 6/8/1985, after an August 1984 engagement. She was born November 18, 1958, in Kansas.

As we switch the time 20 minutes later, we reach a time for which Saturn is exactly on MC at birth. (This has the macabre effect of putting Trump's Neptune right on Pence's Descendant, square his Saturn.)

How does 2:05 AM stand up to transits?

This time would show him being sworn as Vice President with Mercury conjunct his natal Saturn on his natal MC. It shows him becoming Indiana governor with transiting Venus in about the same place, but just out of orb of each - maybe suggesting an MC closer to the 12° than 10° side; except transiting Uranus at 10°08' Pisces then exactly squared the MC for a 2:05 AM birth.

2:05 AM also gives him natal Venus and Jupiter on SNQ angles for his wedding (I engineered that to pick the time), a progressed Moon-Venus square for becoming governor, Pluto transiting just past his MC for being elected vice president, and progressed Moon conjunct natal Venus for the VP election.

Knowing that all of this is speculative, I'm ready to propose, in good faith, that we start testing a chart for 2:05 AM.

[Jim Eshelman]

Proposed birth chart for Vice President Mike Pence
June 7, 1959, 2:05 AM, Columbus, IN

[Jim Eshelman]

I just noticed that, if my proposed chart for Pence is correct, he has Saturn precisely on Ascendant for his recent SSR. For the recent drama of the discovery that he has formed a PAC and is positioning himself for a presidential run, his current SLR would have Mercury on WP and two Marses conjoined on Descendant (and, actually, a Sun-Mars conjunction setting) while his Jupiter culminates.

Could be.

[Jim Eshelman]

If my proposed chart for Pence is approximately correct (2:05 AM), then there is a significant chance he will come under legal fire over the next few weeks also. This would, therefore, be a good time to test the chart, and very interesting of there's a political bullet with his name on it also!

For that birth time:

His current (12/4) SLR has Mercury-Saturn exactly rising - Saturn half a degee fro Ascendant. Pluto is exactly on EP.

His 12/17 Demi-SLR has Mercury-Neptune on the angles tied into his Sun at MC.

His 12/31 SLR has Mars conojunct Jupter on IC (Mars closest and exactly square natal Uranus).

His 1/14 Demi-SLR is less dramatic, but has Moon exactly rising and Mercury-Saturn conjunct in the rising foreground.

I'm going to start adding Pence to the monthly forecasts as a means of testing is chart.

[Jim Eshelman]

My first clue about the accuracy of the Pence speculative time is now available. I won't say it "proves" the chart (we're way too far from that), but it keeps it in the running.

Pence is travelling to the Middle East next week, with special attention on diplomatic missions in Jerusalem or nearby (Israel and Palestine meetings) This is a good astrological example because the trip was originally scheduled for last month, and was delayed: The new dates were announced yesterday.

For a diplomatic mission, we expect Jupiter. We get it in spades, though (life being complex) we get more with it. It's complicated. But we do get Jupiter in spades. (That's what I mean about this event keeping the proposed time "in the running.")

For the proposed birth time, Pence's current SLR (January 1), relocated to Jerusalem, has transiting Jupiter 5°29' above Asc, < 3° conjunct Mars. His natal Jupiter is 3°16' below Ascendant (it's even closer), and his natal Pluto 7°26' off MC.

Then, on January 14 (a few day before the trip), he has a Demi-SLR which, for Jerusalem, has the same Mars-Jupiter conjunction setting. For the current proposed birth time, transiting Jupiter is 0°09' before (above) Descendant and Mars 2°23' before. Adding the natal planets makes this much more complicated, but keeps the basics in place, but here's the breakdown:

r Jupiter 4°49' before Dsc
r Mars 1°33' before IC
r Venus 3°29' past IC

(Natal Neptune is also very widely foreground, 8°15' past Descendant.)

So, we have both Jupiters angular and both Marses angular. His natal Venus-Mars is interesting, a kind of peace-war geopolitical balancing act, and the repeated Mars interaction with Jupiter surely deals with various business acts (and possibly "big stick" diplomacy). Bottom line, the main expected features are present, and nothing else looks weird.

Mundane aspects interweave transiting Mars and Jupiter with natal Mars and Jupiter - work then out as an exercise.

The Demi-SLR, on its simple face, is a classic chart of diploimacy in "old school" (1940s and '50s Fagan-Bradley thinking): The Mars-Jupiter conujunction (with Jupiter 0° from the angle) is on Descendant in Libra, while the 9th house of diplomacy has Sun in near-partile conjunction with Venus, as if this is the jmain thrust of the month, with Sun and Venus both partile square Uranus, though all in the background. (Venus-Uranus changes relationships, Sun-Uranus has surprises, including surprising strength.) There is more if house placement are given their say, but it's pretty straightforward (e.g., marks of covert negotiations and of primarily bartering with "other people's resources").

But, even without that, these charts are interesting, and help with the ongoing task (which, if we're lucky, will become quite important to us soon) of finding a workable chart for Pence.

[Jim Eshelman]

Now that Pence has declared his candidacy for 2024, we'll be wanting his time more. No birth time is available besides his statement that he was born "in the morning." I rectified to 2:05 AM CDT without confidence (though it looks descriptive). But January 6, 2021 was clearly on of the most important days in his life, so it deserves a look.

By simple transit, the only thing I see is transiting Jupiter opposite natal Mars, which fits. I'd be really surprised if his Moon were at 2° Gemini, since that would mean Venus transited it that day: Not fitting at all. (Avoid times around 6 AM.)

Solar Arcs show a breach in relationship with d Pluto sq r Venus, but that doesn't help us. If the 2:05 AM time happens to be close, d Mars-Neptune comes to his angles, which REALLY fits.

His December 29 SLR is hardly descriptive, with no foreground transiting planets - just natal Jupiter, Uranus, and Pluto quite close. (It shows him at his best, but hardly the thread and unusual conditions he experienced.)

That SLR's most interesting transiting aspects were Mars-Pluto (with Eris) and Jupiter-Saturn. (We can ignore Venus-Neptune on his Sun.) Mars-Pluto did not aspect anything natal, but was descriptive on its own. Jupiter-Saturn aspected his Venus, which is strange. Uranus near his Mars-Neptune might bring out a useful mix. - I'm going for t Mars-Pluto and t Uranus to r Mars-Neptune as the best sounding.

We can put Mars (squared by Pluto) on SLR MC with Uranus (to natal Mars-Neptune) on Zenith with a natal Moon of 29°40' Taurus (instead of the Gemini I preferred). BTW, this also puts the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction MODERATELY foreground, which fits the occasion. This gives a birth time of essentially 12:30 AM.

No transits to his natal or local angles for this time on January 6. However, transiting Mars isn't far from his SSR Dsc (less than 2°), which is pretty good! that suggests a slightly earlier birth time, perhaps 5 minutes. (t Uranus squared s MC either way.)

If we're THAT close (I'm not promising that we are), the quotidians should come in loud and clear. The SNQ gives us nothing but the progressed Moon square natal Moon (which he has for any birth time) is on angle. The SQ isn't even that good (it's neutral). But the PSSR is good - good enough, at least, to show highly unusual days. Transiting Uranus is on MC and natal Uranus on Asc (especially if the time is 12:25 instead of 12:30). It also seems to catch the right tone that SSR Saturn opposite natal Venus comes exactly to PSSR EP.

The birth chart is pretty unremarkable. (Many would say that Pence is as well.) I haven't checked it against other events. (I didn't see anything on a quick look for election and inauguration, except that the 2:05 time fit Moon's progression to his Venus better.)

It does, of course, put Trump's Mars the degree of Pence's Descendant.

Without saying it's so, I'm ready to tentatively switch my 2:05 AM speculative time to 12:25 AM.

[mikestar13]

We might see Mike Pence as Republican nominee in 2024, but I deem it unlikely. I think I more likely that DeSantis will get the nomination if Trump doesn't or can't. What does astrology have to say about this? My analysis at this point is based purely on my perception of politics.

Pence and I are technically coreligionists, but quite frankly, his brand of Christianity terrifies me. He strikes me as one of those who is quite successful in turning the Gospel into a club to smite his enemies. Were he elected President,I shudder to think about it.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think I more likely that DeSantis will get the nomination if Trump doesn't or can't. What does astrology have to say about this?

No birth time for DeSantis either. He was born September 14, 1978, in Jacksonville, FL.

As for what astrology has to say: There is an almost flawless pattern wherein each president has a luminary in the sign (or opposite sign) of one of the last two presidents. This actually takes in a larger percentage of people and wouldn't be all that impressive if it weren't nearly perfect across history.

With Trump a Taurus-Scorpio and Biden a Scorpio-Aries, I will predict (based on the historic pattern) that the next president will have a Scorpio-Taurus or Aries-Libra luminary, which narrows it to just over one-half the population.

Sounds like a lot? Well, even with those odds, DeSantis doesn't make it. He has a Leo Sun and either a Capricorn or Aquarius Moon. (I suspect he has a Capricorn Moon, based on the high percentage of Cap luminaries in contemporary conservative politics; for example, he's a good match for Jeb Bush.)

Three obvious "fits" for the pattern are Trump (flips back the other way from Biden's Scorpio Sun), Pence (who at least has a Taurus Sun), and Harris (Libra-Aries). I don't think the odds are good for any of them (based on the political climate).

I don't know who else the Republicans (or, for that matter, the democrats) have to pull out of the bushes. Christie has a Scorpio Moon and I've always thought he'd surprise us someday (but his numbers still aren't high). Buttigieg also has a Scorpio Moon, but I think he needs more seasoning (though I'd love to see him in the office: Every time he opens his mouth I'm blown away).

Of course, despite current numbers there is always Biden himself. The press plays up the age concerns (which certainly exist), but the nomination is his if he asks for it (which, it seems, he will). Democrats won't NOT vote for him (the Republican strategy would have to be get more people out to vote). 2024 is the first splendidly happy, prosperous Capsolar in years, and I do think most Americans will be dipshit-silly happy most of the year, which favors the incumbent.

But, let's take a look: Who else have we missed on either side that has a Taurus-Scorpio or Libra-Aries luminary?

(If those goes on more than a couple of posts, it should go to its own thread and not Pence's thread.)

PS: Is Scorpio-Taurus Stacey Abrams ready for prime time? Andrew Cuomo is a Scorpio-Taurus, but I think he's knocked out of the game. Beto has a Taurus Moon but he'd have to make giant strides (he's lost numerous elections and made his biggest mark simply by taking a stand); and Taurus Moon alone tends to be the mark in this century of also-rans and losing VP candidates. Warren has an Aries Moon, but I think she has run the course other than as being the brilliant gadfly she can be. Based on politics alone, I think we should be looking at Nikki Haley, but she's a Capricorn with either Aquarius or Pisces Moon so will not be Biden's successor. Rubio is a Taurus but, c'mon, really? For that matter, McConnell has an Aries Moon but, aside from low chance of winning, I think he's happiest where he is. Romney has a Scorpio Moon: Does he have another run in him? Rahm Emanuel has a Scorpio Sun but he didn't handle Chicago very well - I think he's out for good. Aries Moon Tea Leoni did a fantastic job as president on TV, but I don't think she's interested <vbg>.

And then there's always Oprah <g>. And Jimmy Carter, with a Libra Moon, is qualified to run for a second term. <gg>

Who did I miss?

[mikestar13]

Republican dark horse South Dakota governor Kristi Noem (11/30/71 Watertown, SD time unknown) is Scorpio Sun but Aries Moon.