Solar Arc Directions

[Jim Eshelman]

They haven't been that much of a big deal in my life (with one stark exception). They work, they're oiperative, but (for example) looking at a list of their dates across life doesn't usually make anything pop from memory of, "Oh, wow, THAT happened with that aspect?!"

BTW, I do think that Sun and Moon rank as strongly as the angles in the BIG solar arc events. Directed Sun, of course, is also progressed Sun, but - even with that advisory - directions TO or BY Moon and Sun seem about as important as those to or by the angles. I think all four "personal points" have to be taken on equal footing.

And then all the other solar arcs work, too. I just posted on the Trump thread that he is currently (to the minute) at directed Pluto to natal Saturn concurrent with directed Mars to natal Pluto (activating his natal Pl = Ma/Sa). These are putting him through events as big as any that his directed angles did.

[Lyse]

I do think that Sun and Moon rank as strongly as the angles in the BIG solar arc events

Just wondering if d SA natal angles or relocated angles can be used in rectifying a birth time. I’ve been working with a time of 7:49 AM for my husband but it could be up to 8 AM, as per his mother. Upon looking at his relocated d SA for our 2011 residence in Connecticut and using 7:49 AM, I noticed a N Moon-Pluto 90 SA d MC as well as a Moon-Pluto 90 natal MC but both not in orb. He retired on June 29, 2011.

By pushing his time of birth to 7:53 AM, this gives close to an exact 90 aspect for both Natal and directed MC. 7:53 AM also places my Natal Venus conjunct his MC, which would fit. His retiring was a fairly big event in his life, so it makes sense that it would show up by secondary progression, transits, or SA. Transits were in play with Pluto 90 Sun however, which could be enough. He’s lived in three countries and various cities so there are many events and places I could work with.

Any thoughts?

[Jim Eshelman]

You can certainly use this to "top off" or refine a rectification. I wouldn't use it unless I felt confident with a couple of degrees already - gaining confidence in the general range with lunar returns, narrowing it a bit with things like transits to angles and an occasional quotidian - and then use solar arcs for refinement or at least confirmation.

Most of that may be style, though. Bottom line is, sure, this is a tool to include in your rectification tool kit.

[Lyse]

Bottom line is, sure, this is a tool to include in your rectification tool kit.

Thanks, Jim

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I think all four "personal points" have to be taken on equal footing.

I generally agree. However when my best friend suddenly died unexpectedly in March 2022 my Solar Arc Natal Moon was partile 90 my angular Natal Jupiter. Maybe this d Moon-Jupiter manifested in a way before my friend’s death but I can’t recall any kind of peak manifestations for this d Moon 90 Natal Jupiter.

However, when my friend unexpectedly died my d MC 90 Natal Pluto (00,14)-- and I was “stunned & shocked” for months with not having my friend in my life. This one angular Solar Arc has drastically affected my life in astonishing transformative ways leaving me with a deep hurt of psychological feelings.

The only reasoning that makes sense to me is that d Moon n Jupiter manifested within the context of the d MC n Pl with an abundant (Jupiter) of emotional feelings (Moon) with the death (d MC n Pl) of my best friend.

[Lyse]

Steve wrote:

At times in our lives Solar Arcs along with Secondary Progressions synchronize offering partile 0, 90, 180 aspects to offer superb symbolism for our major “life development” experiences.

Steve,

For the event previously described in Jan 1987, I decided to use converse progressions and calculate my chart to that person’s date/birth time. However, I used my birth location where this life-changing event occurred with a Sec Prog Q2 Mean Quotidian rate. He was born EST in a different province and the Moon-Mars-Uranus aspect is not on the progressed Quotidian angles for that birthplace but still, this is quite dramatic.

Asc 02°Cn41'
Mars 02°Cn42'
Uranus 02°Cn56'
Moon 02°Cp53'

Along with the Solar Arc Sun-Uranus-Moon, my secondary progressions in SA longitude and the transits it fits the symbolism for a major life event, which it was.

[SteveS]

Lyse wrote:

…but still, this is quite dramatic.
Asc 02°Cn41'
Mars 02°Cn42'
Uranus 02°Cn56'
Moon 02°Cp53'

Indeed it is “dramatic” Lyse!
Lyse wrote:

For the event previously described in Jan 1987, I decided to use converse progressions and calculate my chart to that person’s date/birth time.

I have very little experience with “converse” any method Lyse. But, let me make sure I understand your thinking process here Lyse. Your example here insinuates: When we develop any kind of new relationship with a person and have the birth data of that other person, we should check our converse progressions back to each other’s birth data to possibly indicate what kind of symbolic experiences we may encounter in the future, right? For example: When I met my wife of 52 years in the summer of 1970, and if I was an astrologer which I was not, then besides checking our synastry charts I would have checked our converse progressions back to each of our dates/birth time? Or, if a serious “developed relationship” has already existed and then a major event/development happens, we then check the converse progressions back to our birthdates?
Lyse wrote:

Along with the Solar Arc Sun-Uranus-Moon, my secondary progressions in SA longitude and the transits it fits the symbolism for a major life event, which it was.

Indeed, it is a par-excellent example.
Lyse, you have jogged my fading memory. It seems I remember Jim introducing a similar method that one of the Sidereal Astrology fathers introduced many years back in time, but I can’t recall the exact method, I will go back and look again. But anyway Lyse, your example here is certainly intriguing outside the standard synastry methods for relationships with certain unique experiences which occur with relationships and their futures. I need to go back and look at the astrological circumstances/symbolism that existed when Gayle (wife) and I met and then soon married. Thanks again for your feed back.

[Lyse]

you have jogged my fading memory. It seems I remember Jim introducing a similar method that one of the Sidereal Astrology fathers introduced many years back in time, but I can’t recall the exact method, I will go back and look again.

Yes, he did and I’ve been using that method quite often. This person had been living here for many years so I used converse progressions to his relocated birth chart.

https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6686

[SteveS]

Lyse wrote:

Yes, he did and I’ve been using that method quite often.

Thanks Lyse for the link, I reread the “method” and it is a remarkable method, as well as your cited example above.

[SteveS]

In Noel Tyl’s book he offers as tones for MC-Mars Solar Arc directions, 0, 90, 180 only:

Ego awareness, action, fire, change of status. Recognition, responsibility grows.

Pertaining to the recent “fire” at my friend’s beach side café, IMO, all of these above tones are now in the forefront of his immediate environment with his Solar Arc d MC n Mars.

[SteveS]

For sure, the main predictive method I see for uniting me to Gayle (my wife of 52 years) comes from my Solar Arc directions (d). Some astrologers believe Solar Arcs (d) are “the most successful predictive system” in astrology. IMO, I think Solar Arcs, the Sidereal Solar Return (SSR), and the four Moons (Natal & SSR Moons; sp Natal & SSR Moons) are the best predictive methods in Astrology. I will only use 0, 90, 180 partile d aspects for my Solar Arc directions (d), here they are:

d Moon = n Venus; Ebertin’s COSI “Principle” for Moon-Venus:

The feeling of love, devotion

d Venus = n Mars; Ebertin’s COSI words:

The impulse to love. Passion. Passionate love, sensuality, desire, a warm heart. A strongly sexual, sensual nature. “Sociological Correspondence”: People in love, sex unions, the beginning of associations based purely on sex.

Both these two Solar Arc hits above is obvious to me how/why I fell in love with Gayle in the summer of 1970. Including 0, 90, 180 d aspects, these two above were the only time in my entire life they occurred (once in a lifetime Solar Arc directions), and they both involved Venus, Cupid’s (Venus) arrow pierced my heart.

[SteveS]

I find it most interesting that Margot Robbie’s Movie “Barbie” with Margot as the leading role about the most “beautiful” female doll ever created in this world, which has sold over 1 Billion dolls worldwide since its creation in 1959--- calculates her Natal Solar Arc Taurus Venus partile conjunct her Natal Sun. This is the only time for her entire life she will experience either a 0 90 180 for this Venus Solar Arc to her Natal Sun, a “once in a lifetime” Solar Arc Venus hit to her Sun. Mattel claiming that three Barbie dolls are sold every second. Amazing par-excellent symbolism Venus symbolism for Margot for one of the best predictive astrological methods known in Astrology.

[SteveS]

We all realize the predictive art for Solar Arc Directions, particularly involving the personal points of Sun, Moon, & Angles. Here is another stunning example:

When Kamala Harris took office as Vice President of USA on Jan 20 2021, look at her Natal Full Moon Solar Arc directed almost exact to her Natal Horizon. Link below, Natal (inside wheel); Solar Arc (outside wheel).

https://ibb.co/bJCBgbs

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Re: "When Kamala Harris took office as Vice President of USA on Jan 20 2021, look at her Natal Full Moon Solar Arc directed almost exact to her Natal Horizon."

And as this was happening, she also had SA Asc conjunct Mars (0° 10') and SA Venus conjunct Vertex (0° 8').

[SteveS]

Excellent observations James, particularly her Solar Arc ASC partile cnj her Natal Mars. Allowed me to also note her Solar Arc Node partile cnj Natal Mars. Ebertin from COSI for Node/ASC = Mars:

Desire to achieve something with others, a working association of people for the pursuit of the same objectives.

[SteveS]

When you get as old as me (76) and have been studying/practicing astrology as long as me (40 years), the astrological mind starts thinking more about the important moments in a lifetime and the pure astrological method that timed those important moments in life. Before I got into Sidereal Astrology, I studied the great British astrologer, Charles C.E.O. Carters work. Carter spent his lifetime studying astrology and I want to comment on some of his work which I think contains important grains of truth, it involves Progressions of the Natal Chart, but I think the more grains of truth pertains to Solar Arc Directions vs Secondary Progressions. Jim would probably know better than me.

But, back in Carter’s days Solar Arc Directions had not been developed to its sophistication we have today with computers handling each individual’s different rate of Solar Arc Directions, and that is why I am putting this post under Solar Arc Directions, but it probably should be posted in the Progressions Topic as well. It’s just in my life, when Carter uses the word “progressions”, I find more truth in what Carter is teaching about secondary natal progressions—with Solar Arc Directions.

I think back on my life and without a doubt the most important crises to ever take place in my life was timed when my 8H Mars Solar Arc Directed to my Natal MC, it was pure Mars Hell for me and almost came close to putting me in a hospital with a nervous breakdown, I will spare you the details. But, out of this huge crises in my life the most important opportunity was birthed for my life, also involving a Solar Arc Direction.

In the midst of every crisis, lies great opportunity. Albert Einstein

Let’s get into Carter’s teachings, but remember when he uses the word “directions” he is only meaning secondary natal progressions.
Carter says:

It is a cardinal rule that no direction can bring to pass what is not shown in the nativity. Exceptions to this are virtually non-existent.

Again, Carter plainly means a natal progressed to progressed, or progressed to natal aspect. But, it is important to realize Carter says this “rule” only applies to when we see Natal Planets in aspect. In other words, if there is no Natal aspect, not all of one’s progressed to natal or progressed to progressed aspects will manifest anything meaningful in a lifetime. But herein lies one huge problem: What orbs do we allow to determine a true Natal Aspect? I don’t really know for sure, its a topic that has always been debated among astrologers. I have seen where Mike and Jim on this forum sub-divide return aspects into 3 classes---1, 2, & 3 with Class 1 being the strongest and I certainly have no problem with this guideline, it’s a good guideline.

But where I am uncertain with Carter’s above quoted “rule” -- if there is a 3 degree approaching 90 aspect in a Natal, does Carter mean when the approaching natal planet progresses to a partile 90 aspect with the other planet in the Natal it means the symbolism of the two planets will fire-off in a life time? Carter never really clearly defined what constituted a Natal Aspect, but IMHO, Sidereal Astrology offers much more clarity on the subject of aspects.

When I got into Sidereal Astrology, and discovered Jim’s “rule” that partile (1 degree or less) “reign supreme” in any chart, much more clarity was revealed to me pertaining to Solar Arc Directions involving the Natal Angles. Later, I will offer an example from my Natal which may help you in your life for screening with certainly when a Solar Arc Direction will manifest big time in your life. And then maybe we can experiment with other members charts with their Natal Aspects (Class 1) combined with their Solar Arc Directions to see if we all can learn better and get closer to truths. We already know for sure not all Solar Arcs manifest meaningful incidents in our life times. I am trying to offer a possible study that helps us to determine more truths of the matter of Solar Arc Directions.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think it was much wider than that. This wasn't just Carter's rule - it was a standard rule of early 20th century astrology (with which Fagan took serious issue). It meant any way of showing the matter, and was usually house-driven and house rulership-driven, e.g., a serious, damaging accident while on foreign travel could never be shown by a direction unless the birth chart had a violent affliction to a planet in the 9th house or the ruler of the 9th house - that sort of thing.

[SteveS]

Let's try to experiment with this Jim with other members and their lives after I set-up my life example. I have always been very curious about some of the older writtings on progressions/directions-- "can't happen unless Natal shows it."

[SteveS]

I have read a-lot of astrological books in my 38 years of studying astrology, and being a Virgo I critically examined all their timing methods with my Natal Chart seeking the truth which ones hold the most truth from a timing standpoint when something of importance would/could manifest in a lifetime, something which seemed so obvious from a Natal Chart aspect which could not be denied with the individual experience of an astrologer looking back over their lifetime. Without a doubt Solar Arcs are most important for timing significant life events, but IMHO, most Solar Arcs over a lifetime will not manifest an “outstanding” life incident without other certain timing methods present, which I will try to discuss later. I wish there were available on this Forum a dozen of elderly people my age who were serious astrological members for the sole purpose of a discussion group about their important individual Solar Arcs, if so, we could learn so much more about Solar Arcs and which ones may be meaningful for a lifetime. Anyway, here are my best opinions based on my Natal Chart which ones are more important and WHY I think they are more important. Just because what I see with my Natal pertaining to Solar Arc certainly does not mean the same for your Natal/Solar Arcs. I am only choosing one of my Natal aspects for possible learning services with other possible members and their Natals/Solar Arcs, helping us maybe all to better learnings.

The most important Natal aspect in my chart related to my individual Solar Arcs which by far left an indelible memory on my psyche for my present lifetime of 76 years is my partile 1H Scorpio Moon (15,22) partile (0,32) 135 aspect to my 8H Gemini Mars at 29,50. I have other partile aspects in my Natal, but WHY this Moon-Mars partile 135 aspect for setting me up for the most gut-wrenching Solar Arc episode in my entire life is a glaring question for my mind? I will endeavor to answer this WHY based on my opinions combined with my astrological learnings over my lifetime, but by no means do I think my individual learnings would/could apply exclusively to your Natal. I am offering my life experiences as a possible learning tool for discussions. In the next post will be my main 3 conclusions based on my Natal Moon-Mars aspect. I sincerely hope these conclusions will help you/us with our own individual investigations pertaining to our Natal/Solar Arcs with any Natal aspect you/me may want to further investigate with the timing mechanisms for a life of Solar Arcs. Feedback is welcome! I have always wanted to be involved with other learning astrologers on a forum for possible group discussions for our possible enhanced learnings involving the background of our lives with our Natals/Solar Arcs. too be continued…

[Jim Eshelman]

I'd never looked at this example before. Donald Bradley died April 25, 1974 (next spring marks 50 years). Here were his solar arcs at death from his final round of cancer (one of which is also a secondary progression). BTW this uses the 2:40 AM time, not the 2:04 published in AA.

15°36' Aqu - r Moon
15°36' Aqu - d Jupiter 00'
Transiting Jupiter was in the same degree.

16°13' Ari - d Asc -02'
16°15' Lib - r Saturn

2°37' Sag - r MC
3°04' Sag - d Saturn +27'

18°05' Gem - d/p Sun -08'
18°13' Gem - r Pluto


Already over, but affecting the two years prior:

26°10' Can - r Neptune
27°12' Can - d Mars

[SteveS]

shows a-lot of suffering/depressing symbolism before the Jupiter release of passing away.

[Jim Eshelman]

shows a-lot of suffering/depressing symbolism before the Jupiter release of passing away.

Round three (IIRC) of cancer. - The SLR a few days before he died is beautiful and peaceful, so the end was probably without pain - it matched that 00' Jupiter direction.

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Well, since you made the call for older types with events to peruse Solar Arcs, I guess I'll step up... (all will be under 0° 20' of arc... any that seem irrelevant, read on...I've highlighted the conjunctions and oppositions) In most cases though, the Age Harmonics are a stronger (astrological) statement)

*Birth of Sister
SA Pluto (in 3rd) opposite Jupiter (0° 12')
LA Pluto square Node (0° 14')
AH Node square Jupiter, AH Midheaven sesquisquare Mercury

*Birth of Brother
SA Mercury sesquisquare Saturn (0° 7')
SA Uranus semisquare Ascendant (0° 14')
SA Pluto semisquare Moon (0° 13')
LA Mercury conjunct Uranus (0° 18')
AH Mars square Mercury, AH Node conjunct Vertex

*Birth of Brother
SA Sun conjunct Ascendant (0° 9')
SA Mars semisquare Ascendant (0° 4')
LA Jupiter conjunct Mercury (0° 15')
AH Moon opposite Node, AH Mercury square Midheaven

*Death of Grandfather (adoptive Father)
SA Sun sesquisquare Jupiter (0° 2') [inherited a house]
SA Mars square Jupiter (0° 2')
SA Pluto sesquisquare Saturn (0° 19')
LA Jupiter square Moon (0° 9')
AH Neptune conjunct Midheaven, AH Pluto opposite Moon

*Death of Grandmother (adoptive Mother)
SA Venus semisquare Moon (0° 2')
SA Saturn square Vertex (0° 19')
LA Venus conjunct Moon (0° 12')
AH Node conjunct Venus, AH Saturn opposite Venus

*Birth of first Son
SA Pluto semisquare Venus (0° 3')
LA Moon sesquisquare Jupiter (0° 15')
AH Jupiter square Mars, AH Uranus opposite Node, AH Imum Coeli conjunct Jupiter

*Marriage
SA Midheaven semisquare Jupiter (0° 3')
AH Vertex conjunct Venus, AH Jupiter sesquisquare Sun

*Birth of Twins
SA Mercury conjunct Ascendant (0° 8')
SA Sun opposite Saturn (0° 8')
LA Jupiter square Ascendant (0° 12')
AH Node conjunct Neptune, AH Neptune conjunct Node

*Death of maternal Grandmother
SA Ascendant conjunct Venus (0° 5') (SA Dsc in 8th opposite Venus)
SA Venus square Mercury (0° 2')
AH Ascendant opposite Neptune, AH MC sesquisquare Pluto

*Fly (first time overseas) to begin relationship with my current Wife
SA Moon square Vertex (0° 3')
SA Jupiter square Ascendant (0° 9')
SA Mars square Midheaven (0° 14')
AH Venus conjunct Sun, AH Ascendant square Jupiter, AH Node semisquare Venus

*Wife moves overseas a month later to live with me
LA Node square Jupiter (0° 9')
AH Moon conjunct Ascendant, AH Venus conjunct Node

*Got Married
SA Vertex opposite Sun (0° 7')
LA Sun opposite Mars (0° 2')
LA Mars square Sun (0° 6')
AH Ascendant square Jupiter, AH Ascendant semisquare Moon

*Birth of Son
SA Ascendant square Mars (0° 1')
LA Sun conjunct Descendant (0° 16')
LA Mars sesquisquare Ascendant (0° 11')
AH Venus semisquare Midheaven, AH Uranus sesquisquare Sun

*3-Car Accident w/ Injury
SA Pluto square Ascendant (0° 6') (3rd House Pluto directed to square the Asc)
LA Mars conjunct Vertex (0° 2')
AH Mars sesquisquare Ascendant, AH Mars conjunct Vertex, AH Saturn conjunct Venus

*Move permanently overseas
SA Pluto semisquare Vertex (0° 18')
LA Neptune conjunct Mars (0° 1')
LA Vertex conjunct Mercury (0° 9')
AH Node conjunct Moon, AH Saturn opposite Moon, AH Neptune square Moon

*Birth of Daughter
SA Venus conjunct IC (0° 15')
AH Midheaven square Venus, AH Ascendant opposite Pluto

*Death of (ex) Step-Father
SA Node semisquare Neptune (0° 0')
SA Saturn sesquisquare Node (0° 14')
AH Mars conjunct Neptune, AH Mars square Saturn, AH Mars square Node

*Death of Brother
SA Moon semisquare Node (0° 0')
SA Mercury sesquisquare Midheaven (0° 10')
SA Pluto sesquisquare Mercury (0° 10')
AH Mars conjunct Uranus, AH Vertex opposite Pluto

*Death of Father-in-Law
SA Sun conjunct Pluto (0° 6')
SA Moon semisquare Node (0° 10')
SA Jupiter square Node (0° 11')
AH Pluto square Neptune, AH Jupiter sesquisquare Midheaven (inheritance), AH Mars square Moon

*Death of Father
SA Moon semisquare Neptune (0° 1')
LA Pluto square Node (0° 0')
LA Pluto square Saturn (0° 15')
AH Mars opposite Pluto, AH Midheaven opposite Sun, AH Moon square Saturn

*Death of Mother
SA Jupiter square Node (0° 8')
LA Moon semisquare Node (0° 17')
AH Midheaven sesquisquare Venus, AH Vertex square Pluto

*Gain dream job, cleaned slate
SA Jupiter opposite Neptune (0° 9')
LA Midheaven square Jupiter (0° 5')
AH Moon semisquare Jupiter, AH Uranus square Mars (tech job), AH Node conjunct Saturn

[Arena]

What does LA and AH stand for ODdOnLifeItself ?

I would think semi and sesqi aspects do not apply. Better to focus on conjunctions, oppositions and squares only.

[SteveS]

Thanks James for your feedback, but I think I need to clarify more what I am trying to determine with Solar Arcs by other members feedback, its difficult for me to put into the correct words but I will try:

What a-lot of the old school astrological writers (pre 1900) wrote about secondary progressions is that no major secondary progression could bring to pass without that same Natal Chart configuration being seen in the Natal Chart. After 1900 Charles Carter in his “Principles of Astrology” discussed this issue more in depth. I tried to make sense with other charts what Carter was stating but could not prove the truth of the matter with other charts, including my own chart with secondary progressions---but I did see with more clarity with Solar Arc Directions.

Then, when the age of computers came into being and everyone’s exact individual Solar Arc rates could be determined, a whole new world of acute fated stuff in a Natal Chart was able to be seen as a WOW factor with Solar Arcs. I am not talking about the birth of brother & sisters, or marriages, this kind of stuff in normal, don't get me wrong--I know you work with methods which offer the timing of normal everyday stuff that happens in a life time. I am taking about the kinda of stuff that very rarely happens in a life-time---the kind of life altering stuff you can count on one hand in a lifetime. Think of it as a Super “outstanding incident” or a Super event which has the potential to change the entire course of one’s ordinary life. The German Schools of Astrology labeled these type events as “Co-Determents of Fate” and they dealt exclusively with Solar Arc Directions.

I have been real busy lately with major repair construction going on at our historical home, its very demanding on my time. When I can get this behind me, I will come back to this tread and attempt to explain better what I see and am trying to get a better handle on for better clarification for us all to examine with our own individual Natals. I am trying to set-up a specific experiment for us to discuss.

[Jim Eshelman]

What a-lot of the old school astrological writers (pre 1900) wrote about secondary progressions is that no major secondary progression could bring to pass without that same Natal Chart configuration being seen in the Natal Chart.

That's not really what they said, Steve. (It might be how you understood what they were saying.) The routinely repeated rule I think you mean to quote is that nothing can occur from a progression or direction that isn't already shown as a possibility in the natal.

Then, when the age of computers came into being and everyone’s exact individual Solar Arc rates could be determined, a whole new world of acute fated stuff in a Natal Chart was able to be seen as a WOW factor with Solar Arcs... I am taking about the kinda of stuff that very rarely happens in a life-time---the kind of life altering stuff you can count on one hand in a lifetime. Think of it as a Super “outstanding incident” or a Super event which has the potential to change the entire course of one’s ordinary life.

Got it. Except... these have been quite mixed for me. The handful of "reroute the river" events have mostly shown well in solar arcs (mostly with tight orbs, but not all of them). OTOH, not all solar arcs that (theoretically) seemed that strong produced noticeable events. Also, a few of these "big five events" had essentially exact directions but they were not always symbolically clear (even in distant hindsight) how they fit - without forcing them.

Overall, then, if the test is, "Do solar arcs usually show for the top five change-the-river events"" the answer is yes, usually. If the test is, "Do similar big-deal solar arcs, e.g., angles to planets or planets to angles, always produce change-the-river events?" the answer is no, not at all.

My "list of five" change-the-river events (that weren't simply evolutions of other things already in motion, I suppose, would include the following (I had to trim a couple that I'd have included if I allowed myself more than Top 5, and one confidential event):

1. Buying my first astrology magazine September 1968. dNe-rSa 13' (huh?!), but d Ju-Ur sq r Me (5', 11': midpoint 3') [yes!]
2. Sudden decision to move to California June 5, 1975. dMC-rSu 10', dAs-rSu 24' [not what I would expect for this event, but I suppose creditable as an aspect that at least shows a major life-passage]
3. Met my guru, setting in motion an entirely different branch of my life April 7, 1979. dSu-rMe 31' [fitting but wider than most], dPl-rMo 58' [quite accurate but barely in orb, d Mo-rSu 39' [again, very accurate and acceptable orb, but wide, not narrowly timing] - all symbolically sound but vague on timing
4. Universe opened" and gave me my marching orders December 9, 1987. dMa to rVe-Pl (7', 6', midpoint 0') [obviously THE tightly timed aspect: I have to stretch to say the symbolism fit, certainly didn't squarely peg the type of event], dMo-rNe 51' (descriptive of the kind of excited mania I was in for a few days but very wide with timing not fitting later) - Hard to score this because the precision is impressive, but the symbolism is whacked; and transits showed it far, far better.
5. Forced to leave my home for 40 years and severed relationships centered on December 12, 2014. dMC to r Ve-Pl (17', 4') [dead on! - d Asc same but much wider], dNe-rMC (0' - and it was on IC)

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Hi Arena,

Re: "What does LA and AH stand for ODdOnLifeItself?"

As "SA" was solar arcs, "LA" is lunar arcs. Sorry I didn't state that. AH is Age Harmonics, which I referenced in the opening of my post. Since the list was broken down by event, it seemed (at least to me) that it would be interesting to make it more complete and include the lunar arcs and age harmonics, for contrast/comparison.

Re: "I would think semi and sesqi aspects do not apply. Better to focus on conjunctions, oppositions and squares only."

Way too many years of research are leading me immediately to think that would be foolhardy. Take a few events you have and throw up a 4th harmonic Uranian-style graphic ephemeris (so that you see transits, solar arcs, and progressions simultaneously) and note the "weather" around the event. Then, do the same thing, but with a 8th harmonic chart. It doesn't remove anything, it only ever fills in details. And...as you'll note, I highlighted the conjunctions/oppositions in my list, emphasizing strongly the 2nd harmonic.

Let's not have anything wrong here...I encourage everyone to use whatever methods they're comfortable with and (hopefully) find reliable for whatever they are trying to do with astrology. If you decide to list your solar arcs, by all means "focus on conjunctions, oppositions and squares only." If I leave it too lax, I feel like too many fish still escape through the larger netting.

Good luck!

[ODdOnLifeItself]

Re: "I think I need to clarify more what I am trying to determine with Solar Arcs by other members feedback, its difficult for me to put into the correct words but I will try..."

Well, if you can't define exactly what you were looking for, I guess we can't be surprised that I didn't see the goal posts and kicked a little wide.

The 3 major turning point times in my life were likely: (all astrology of solar arcs is 16th harmonic, but held to < 0° 3' of arc, because of this aspects aren't listed, we'll use the "=" for "equals some 16th harmonic aspectual contact")

The death of my Grandmother, which spawned a quick search for a maternal replacement and changed many elements of my life, including meeting my first wife online just after this time.

This is immediately shown through Venus = Moon (0° 2'). [which I am sure also relates to my seeing my one aunt, when she stayed in our home, after not seeing her for more than a decade...]

If I wanted to see more of the circumstance, I'd look deeper in the astrology...

Node = Sun/Moon (0° 1'), for meeting my soon to be online girlfriend and eventual wife.
Neptune = Jupiter/Uranus (0° 1'), (Witte) "Good fortune through death. Inheritance."
MC = Mars/Neptune (0° 0'), (Witte) "To experience failures and Losses. Sorrow on account of disease."
Uranus = Node/Mercury (0° 0'), for the excited foray into going online and meeting someone on a bulletin board service.

Flying to Germany to consummate my relationship and claim my Wife for my own, which separated me from my wife/family at the time and completely changed virtually every element of my life.

This is mostly shown through Jupiter = Neptune (0° 2'), for the overseas travel and the speculative nature of it. I call this time, "my 10 days of Camelot," which seems just right for Jupiter-Neptune.

Asc = Pluto/Node (0° 1'), (Witte) "Changes in the relations or connections cause changes in or of the place..." [In my best Chandler, "could it even BE more relevant?!"]
Moon = Mercury/Venus (0° 0'), "Youthful beauty. Female acquaintance." = Mars/Jupiter (0° 2'), (Witte) "The betrothed woman or girl."
Mercury = Venus/MC (0° 0'), for the easily made acquaintance.
Node = Venus/Uranus (0° 0'), (Witte) "To enter into love adventures."
Neptune = Saturn/Pluto (0° 2'), (Witte) "A divorce extending over a long time." (amen)

Moving to Germany permanently.

There are no real direct arcs that relate to that (and are in these hellacious orbs )...though it could be seen to relate to solar arc Pluto square Ascendant (0° 23')...

Pluto = Asc/Vx (0° 2'), [freely speculate, but if you don't have transformation and autonomy in the sentence, re-write it.]
Jupiter = Moon/Ascendant (0° 0'), for travel/relocation and the positive, hopeful, horizon-being-broadened feel of the time.

In terms of duplication of natal aspects, in the first case (death of Grandmother, etc.), I don't have any Moon-Venus aspects natally. In the second case, I do have a Neptune-Jupiter trine from 5th to 9th, which fits a romance that leads to travel and relocation in terms of natal proclivity, so this of course would seem totally related.

[SteveS]

Here is an outline (2 main points) of what I am mainly interested in researching with other people’s charts pertaining to Solar Arcs, but please feel free to write what you see with your life pertaining to Solar Arcs, do not be limited by my 2 criteria’s here:

1: When a Natal Angle Solar Arcs partile conjunct to a Natal Planet or a Natal Planet Solar Arcs partile conjuncts a Natal Angle, primary angles only. And, for only the one’s above when an outer planet partile conjuncts transits a Natal Angle (any angle) at the same time.
For example: On July 8 1985 my Natal Mars Solar Arc partile cnj my Natal MC; and, t. Saturn partile cnj my Natal Asc.
This Solar Arc plus Saturn transit timed the single most important event in my life of 76 years, but probably because I was born with a partile 135 of Moon-Mars. In other words, based on what Carter is explaining in his book with my understanding with progressions (not solar arcs) this Solar Arc Mars to my Natal MC timed to the exact year when my partile Natal Moon-Mars 135 fired off in my life, or came to pass with a manifestation of the Moon-Mars partile 135 aspect symbolism in my Natal.

Another example (Mundane): The USA Boyd Chart or commonly labeled the “Declaration of War” Chart relocated to DC (link below):

https://ibb.co/nDqN5QL (Only showing Natal Mars partile cnj Natal ASC.)

On Dec 6 1941 when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and USA “Declared War” on Japan, Boyd’s Solar Arc Sun was partile cnj Boyd’s Natal IC partile 90 Boyd’s Natal Mars with transiting Neptune (outer planet) partile cnj Boyd’s Natal ASC and Natal Mars, and partile 90 Boyd’s Solar Arc Sun. This is the only time in USA History when USA Government legally “Declared War” on another Country. Obviously, Boyd’s DC Mars partile cnj Boyd’s DC ASC is the main theme/signature/aspect of this chart, and obviously the 2 criteria explained above timed to the exact year another “Declaration of War” event, only 2 in USA history--Britain & Japan.

2: Or, only when or if a Natal Chart has a partile harmonic 8 aspect and one of the planets involved in the aspect-- Solar Arcs partile conjuncts a primary Natal Angle or a Natal primary angle Solar Arcs partile conjuncts one of the planets involved in the partile harmonic 8 aspect. Does not need to involve an outer planet transit partile cnj a Natal Angle. I want to research this type with other major timing indicators other than an outer planet transit to an angle.

These 2 criteria above are the ones I am interested in exploring/experimenting with other members for possible once in a lifetime major event, or major life changing events in the history of a chart/native. I am not saying other Solar Arcs are not important, but with my understanding of Noel Tyl’s book “Solar Arcs” the partile angular Solar Arc Natal hits (angles & planets) combined with an outer planet transit to a Natal Angle at the same time are the most important ones. IMHO, much more research needs to be done with Solar Arcs, particularly combined with what I think Carter is trying to convey in some of his work pertaining to calculating when a progression or direction will fire-off a Natal aspect in its lifetime.

Later, I will try to tie in Carter’s writings on these two issues as applied to Solar Arcs (not secondary progressions), because IMHO Solar Arcs as Noel teaches are much clearer as predicting major life events than Natal secondary progressions. The old astrologer writers did not have the modern knowledge as we do today for Solar Arcs. I know of no other book on Solar Arcs which has researched and brought-up to modern times than Tyl's book on Solar Arcs as a great prediction tool. Maybe later we can use some of the issues/thinking in this tread for a looks-see at the 2024 Election? I am not making statements of facts, I am only exploring/experimenting.

[Jim Eshelman]

1: When a Natal Angle Solar Arcs partile conjunct to a Natal Planet or a Natal Planet Solar Arcs partile conjuncts a Natal Angle, primary angles only. And, for only the one’s above when an outer planet partile conjuncts transits a Natal Angle (any angle) at the same time.

So directed major angle to planet or directed planet to major angle concurrent with a transiting outer planet to a natal angle, yes?

To test this: Of my Top Five moments listed above that branched my life in a new direction, only two had directions involving angles (and the next two most important events also had no angle contacts). The directions involving angles were big deals, but the other three (one could say the five next-most-important events) were at least equally big deals.

In the past, I've tried your approach of "pick the hot spots from directions involving angles" and it just doesn't hold up. Yes, those directions are important, but not more important than, say, those involving luminaries. (All but one of my hot events involved an angle or a luminary. I'd feel comfortable using "angle or luminary" as the filter but not just angle.) - And I can't overlook something at least as big to me (if not bigger) that directed Jupiter-Uranus hit natal Mercury when I was first seriously introduced to astrology!

Let's look at the second part of your equation: Were there simultaneous outer planet transits to natal angles? - For intro to astrology, the big transit was to natal Moon (t Pluto op r Moon), though Uranus was only a few degrees past natal Ascendant. For sudden decision to move to California, no outer planet transits to angles but two transits to natal Sun (which was the planet involved in the direction). For met my guru, no major planet transits to natal personal points. For The Big Event 12/89/87, it was all about transits to angles, though - Uranus 00' from natal IC while 00' from semi-square transiting Pluto etc. (as well as a lot of other transits) - I don't need solar arcs for this, everything else normally in use zeroes in on the exact minute of the event. For the December 2014 events, no transits to natal angles. - For the next two most important events I'd add, one had transiting Pluto to natal Moon but nothing to angles; the other had no transits to angles.

2: Or, only when or if a Natal Chart has a partile harmonic 8 aspect and one of the planets involved in the aspect-- Solar Arcs partile conjuncts a primary Natal Angle or a Natal primary angle Solar Arcs partile conjuncts one of the planets involved in the partile harmonic 8 aspect. Does not need to involve an outer planet transit partile cnj a Natal Angle. I want to research this type with other major timing indicators other than an outer planet transit to an angle.

Interesting variation on the rule because - in a different way - it is a two-planet trigger. (Matthew and I used to talk about how bigger events have a tendency to involve at least two planets/aspects - two planets on a Q angle instead of one, or two concurrent transits - which really amped up the chances of something happening.

Taking this back to my event list above, it increases the number that fit your rule PROVIDED I don't require an angle to be involved - that's the sticking point for me, solar arcs to or by angles don't seem bigger deals than those not involving angles (especially if they involve luminaries instead). I can confirm, though, that some of the strongest solar arcs across my life were directions by or to my two partile natal hard aspects (Jupiter-Uranus and Venus-Pluto), which is a great discovery - I think the multi-planet thing may indeed be a filter.

Of the five listed above, starting astrology involved natal Jupiter-Uranus to Mercury (but no angles). The 12/2014 event involved directed MC to natal Venus-Pluto AND directed Neptune to natal IC. (That's two of five.) Of next two important events I didn't list (since I used five events as the cutoff), one involved directed Venus-Pluto to natal Sun.

These 2 criteria above are the ones I am interested in exploring/experimenting with other members for possible once in a lifetime major event, or major life changing events in the history of a chart/native.

Perhaps my tedious itemization will help your search.

My current take-aways are: (1) The "angle has to be involved" rule is wrong. Directions involving angles inconsistently show the scope or kind of event involved. Some of them are truly outstanding, but at least as many are not. (2) If you stretched the rules above to include Sun or Moon - angle or luminary - they might persuade me. In my case, I could ignore the angle events and test your rules substituting Sun or Moon and get better results. (3) The "two-factor authentication" principle may indeed make part of the difference in which one's are whoppers, i.e., either having a partile natal hard aspect that's involved or having a direction or having a transit as backup. (4) Of the five top events, solar arcs hit the mark but with NEITHER angle nor luminary involvement. Of the top seven events I'd list, three out of seven did not involve directions by or two luminaries or angles, or major planet transits to luminaries or angles. This makes it hard to value these above other solar arcs. (The real stickler, of course, is my introduction to astrology which had the totally ill-fitting Neptune-to-Saturn direction and the dead-on almost to the minute Jupiter-Uranus to natal Mercury - no luminary or angle involvement except transiting Pluto opposite natal Moon).

IMHO, much more research needs to be done with Solar Arcs, particularly combined with what I think Carter is trying to convey in some of his work pertaining to calculating when a progression or direction will fire-off a Natal aspect in its lifetime.

Solar arcs actually make this easier than either transits or progressions because the whole chart moves at an even pace, preserving natal signatures.

If you interpret solar arcs as the Ebertin school does (and, for that matter, the Witte school), the directed and natal factors both of their own cosmic state (their own aspects and midpoint trees). In that sense EVERY direction is the unfolding of a natal pattern. (I'm not saying this works - I think the evidence is mixed - but I'm saying it's inherent in how they use solar arcs.) They're mostly interested in unlocking the timing of things shown in the natal.

For example, at birth my Sun is at Moon/Mercury 0°05'. The German schools would emphasize that any direction by or to my Sun is a chance to activate Su = Mo/Me. So, when directed angles came to natal Sun in 1975, d MC = r Sun wasn't the only factor at the time of my suddenly leaving my native land (leaving my first wife behind) and moving permanently to California and an entirely new life. This would be viewed as unlocking the natal potential of Su = Mo/Me and also the Midheaven's "tree" or cosmic state of MC = Ne/Pl 3', Ve/Ur 50'. While, "Go off and start your real life, young man, and head for the sunny place!" is probably good enough for directed angles to natal Sun [concurrent with Jupiter and Saturn partile transits to natal Sun], the details get even clearer if you think of directed MC = Ne/Pl = Ve/Ur to natal Su = Mo/Me.

This is the kind of thing many of the old astrologers wanted when they said "It has to be shown already in the natal." All the midpoint "trees" ARE already in the natal, and they unlock that by direction - or, at least, that's the theory.

Maybe later we can use some of the issues/thinking in this tread for a looks-see at the 2024 Election? I am not making statements of facts, I am only exploring/experimenting.

Trump's exact directions over the next 14 months are Mercury square his Sun (this November) and Saturn square his Mercury (next November). Stepping down an octave, there is also d Uranus octile natal Jupiter. - Looking more broadly for the election, he has Pluto to Venus, MC to Pluto, Neptune to Moon, and Saturn to Mercury (00'). This looks exceptionally bad for him.

Biden's exact directions over the next 14 months are Saturn to Uranus (May), Venus to Mercury (July), and Saturn square natal Asc next October (presuming his birth time is accurate, which I think is pretty close). Stepping down an octave, there is also Jupiter to Uranus in May. - Looking more broadly for the election, he has Pluto to Moon, Sun-Venus to Mercury, Ascendant to Sun (64' applying, so in orb a month or so later), Saturn to Uranus-Ascendant, and Moon to Jupiter. With the exception of the Saturn aspect, these are all outstanding (and Asc-Sun is at least as positive as Saturn-Asc is negative). They do give me some concern for his health (but most of his aspects since 2020 give me that concern LOL.) If I had to pick a maximum health vulnerability from solar arcs, it would be after d Mars enters orb of his Pluto in March 2025 and while Saturn is still square his Asc, meaning until October 2025, except that Asc is also square his Sun during that entire time.

[Arena]

Directed major angle to planet or directed planet to major angle concurrent with a transiting outer planet to a natal angle. It does define and restrict your survey Steve to make these limitations - but I kind of agree also with the approach to include luminaries. I will include them below as well as "approx partile".

I can see two major turn of events so that it completely changed the course of the river in my younger children's lives and that is when we moved to Scotland and also when we separated. Major events, major turning points for them both. A shock to their system and life would never be the same after. Outer circumstances totally turned their world/lives upside down, adjusting to that was not easy on them.

My daughter's move to Scotland:
D. Sat to r. ASC
D. MC sq r. Venus
D. Pl sq r. Moon 0,03
D. Mer & Mar / Pluto sq. r. Moon
D. Moon opp r. Saturn
D. Ur sq r. Nnode & Mer (which is also in conj with r. Pl & Mars)

Outer planets transits:
T. Sat partile trine r. Moon
T. Pl partile sq. d. Moon & (T. Pl partile sq. r. Sat)
T. Ur 1,24° trine r. Sun

My daughter at family breakup:
D. Moon just outside partile conj. r. DSC squared by t. Saturn
T. Ur just outside partile sq. r. MC.

Since she had relocated to Scotland at the time of breakup I check that out as well and I see that t. Ur is almost partile the rel. DSC.

My son's move to Scotland:
D. ASC almost partile sq. r. Jup
T. Nodes partile r. MC
T. Sat partile trine r. Moon

What follows shortly after the move:
T. Pl sq dir Sun-Moon/Venus
T. Nep conj r. IC.

At the time of family breakup:
D. MC opp r. Ur
T. Sat sq d. Moon
T. Jup tr d. Moon

Rel. chart:
D. Ur conj rel. IC

[Arena]

If I take just that latter period of my separation and a new life starting I consider it a longer period, not just a one day incident. The incident was June 2nd 2019 ... but it took me a few weeks to digest and realize that it was actually over for real and I left around mid August.

23.40 natal chart:
D. Nep partile r. MC
D. MC p sq r. Nep
D. ASC almost partile sq. r. Moon
D. Moon partile r. ASC
T. Sat partile sq r. EP & partile tr. r. Moon
T. Nodes partile MC/IC

23.40 rel to Edinb:
D. Sat partile rel. IC
T. Ur partile rel. ASC

23.27 natal:
D. Nep partile r. Zenith
D. ASC partile r. Mer sq r. Moon
T. Nodes partile r. nadir and t. Sat almost partile as well and moves into partile during the period.

23.27 rel to Edinb:
D. Sat partile rel. nadir

[Arena]

I want to throw in a point here that may be of major significance regarding hugely important relationships in your life regarding the movement of the nodes. Since they move in retrograde motion it makes sense to move them in that same motion when you direct a chart. I think that needs to be programmed into solar fire, so that we can see the correct placement of them moving retrograde, one degree per solar year throughout our lives.

The nodes are very much associated with fated relationships, such as long term relationships with love/friends/partners of some sort.

I can see major turning points around the time when retrograde nodes hit my angles in the solar arcs directions with my longest lasting love relationships (although much more accurate with the alternative bt of 23.27).

Therefore I would like to know if you see a similar pattern. Simply calculate where your nodes would have been if they were directed in retrograde motion to the points of your most significant long lasting relationships that have felt "fated" and make a note of either angles they touch at that time or natal/dir planets.

This is the pattern I see with the 23.27 chart:

First husband, met on Oct 22nd 1995 - 23 yrs old
Retro dir. nodes to almost exact the r ASC/DSC.

Sec "husband", met on March 24th 2007 - 33,5 yrs old
Retro dir. nodes on dir. Moon (and indeed we did start a family).

Third long term fated man, met on Aug 30th 2019 - 47 yrs old
Retro dir. nodes partile rel. ASC/DSC.

In my case, when the nodes hit the angles, it is actually the "dragon's head" or Nnode that hits the DSC. I wonder if the Vedics are right ... if it had been the tail or Snode that hits the DSC, maybe that would mean divorce. I don't know. But in the last case for myself, my divorce/separation and start of a new one both happen within just a few months time.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

So directed major angle to planet or directed planet to major angle concurrent with a transiting outer planet to a natal angle, yes?

Yes indeed! Based on my entire life of 76 years my major life developments have only involved the above guideline. This is consistent with Noel’s teachings for a major life development. 1974 I had my Solar Arc MC partile conjunct my Natal Sun---nothing happened---no major outer planet involved with my Natal Angels.

Here are the major Solar Arc life developments according to Noel’s guidelines I see with Trump & Biden for Election Nov 2024:
Trump: MC d partile cnj his Natal Pluto; t Uranus partile cnj his Natal MC
Biden: d Saturn partile cnj Natal Zenith (not a primary angle); t Jupiter partile cnj his Natal WP
All based on their birth locations.
Thanks for the feedback Jim.

Excellent feedback Arena, thanks. Since I don't have children I can defintely see where a parent monitoring their children's Solar Arcs would be very important for possible "major life developments."

[SteveS]

Jim, according to the main guidelines of Noel Tyl’s book “Solar Arcs”, Marion’s major new “Life Development” with her severe broken angle/foot is clearly seen with her Solar Arcs. Link below showing Marion’s Solar Arcs (outside wheel) for Sept 1 (day of accident/injury) with her Natal (inside wheel).

https://ibb.co/KF6kw26

As we can see her Solar Arc Sun partile 180 her r MC with her r Moon-Pluto cnj Solar Arc falling on her r WP. We can see here one of Marion’s main Natal Aspects Sun sq Moon-Pluto cnj was Solar Arc to her Natal angles for the day of her accident/injury.

As a side note and FWIW, the main Solar Arc “Life Development” in my entire life involved my Vargottama r Mars when it Solar Arc to my r MC (1985). Marion’s r Moon- Sun- Pluto are Vargottama. I am guessing this will become Marion’s main Solar Arc “Life Development” in her entire life.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, according to the main guidelines of Noel Tyl’s book “Solar Arcs”, Marion’s major new “Life Development” with her severe broken angle/foot is clearly seen with her Solar Arcs.

I itemized her solar arcs in the original thread:. I think they are quite inappropriate to the event, though out or seven or eight partile major hard aspects (mostly heavily benefic) there is one harsh aspect:

How about solar arcs? Well, here's everything partile, with a heavy emphasis on benefic patterns that do not fit this event. (At best, they broadly describe our life over the last month etc.)

d Pluto sq r MC +43'
d Mars oc r Moon +24'
d Eris co r Sun +14'
d Jupiter sq r Pluto +11'
------------------------------ <right now>
d Jupiter sq r Moon -28'
d Sun op r MC -35'
d Venus sq r Jupiter -57'
t Neptune sq r Jupiter -60'

The overall set is quite positive (thus, unfitting). The two best fits are the longest past, Mars to Moon and maybe Pluto to MC (though that seems way too big and pivotal for this event)... The Solar Arcs are pretty good at showing Marion's basic life state for this period of her life, but I don't think show this event at all.

As we can see her Solar Arc Sun partile 180 her r MC with her r Moon-Pluto cnj Solar Arc falling on her r WP. We can see here one of Marion’s main Natal Aspects Sun sq Moon-Pluto cnj was Solar Arc to her Natal angles for the day of her accident/injury.

Moon is out of orb. Even if I were to zoom in on the Pluto direction (nearly expired: it was exact 9 months earlier), it seems too gigantic a "permanently life altering" direction to describe this event. (We expect that this event will come and go within a few months and then life will go on essentially unchanged.)

I'm curious, though, how you see Sun directed opposite MC being significant. Thinking of it as a secondary progression instead of a solar arc, we both have progressed Sun partile conjunct natal IC at the moment which, if we emphasize the IC side, at most means much more time spent at home. In general, though, it's not yet clear to me how (or if) p/d Sun to natal IC fits this event. I had been more expecting it would be a slow build-up to several things developing that would give her a larger venue for self-expression, peaking near the time it's exact in six months.

The only thing I see in the SAs really describing this event is directed Mars octile natal Moon within 24'.

Marion’s r Moon- Sun- Pluto are Vargottama. I am guessing this will become Marion’s main Solar Arc “Life Development” in her entire life.

If so, it's a pretty minor thing. Again, it's a big thing now but, in a year, I suspect this will just be another event in her rearview mirror, no attracting much attention. She's had much more impactful events that have changed the course of her life, such as the final illness and death of her mother (the onramp of that was d MC opposite natal Moon-Pluto but the aspect was almost a year out of orb by the actual death), her two summers living in Alaska (I don't remember the years), and our getting together (which had no solar arcs at all, though transits, returns, and progressions were vivid).

[SteveS]

Nevertheless Jim, their is no doubts Marion had a major angular Solar Arc hit at the time of her severe accident/injury requiring magor surgery. I consider this a major "Life Development" in her life up to this point in her life according to Tyl's guidelines in his book "Solar Arcs". I am sure Marion must be feeling the psychological impact of this angular Solar Arc hit of Sun-Moon-Pluto with her severe injury/surgery. According to Tyl's teachings--Marion's magor injury/surgery in a par-excellent example of Solar Arcs unless you are thinking this major angular Solar Arc hit in Marion's life is just a coincidence with no symbolic value? But, understand Jim, IMO, the best par-excellent Sidereal Astrology chart symbolically for her major accident/injury was her SNQ for the DAY of the accident. Is it OK for me to show Marion's SNQ for the day of her accident under the "Quotidian" Topic?

[Jim Eshelman]

According to Tyl's teachings--Marion's magor injury/surgery in a par-excellent example of Solar Arcs unless you are thinking this major angular Solar Arc hit in Marion's life is just a coincidence with no symbolic value?

First, I'm not willing to isolate the one solar arc hit you identified from nearly half a dozen others occurring at the same time (all with closer orbs). That's probably our biggest difference.

I don't consider it a just a coincidence (in the casual meaning of the word) mostly because I don't think it's a square hit. The Moon-MC aspect is expired and the Pluto-MC peaked nearly a year ago. There is nothing to center these aspects on this specific point in time unless we consider the other, closer (and therefore more important) solar arcs at the time of the accident. However, if we do that we get mostly half a dozen benefic-leaning directions (except for that one Mars octile to natal Moon).

If the Pluto-MC has anything to do with this event, it missed its target by most of a year. We'd need to look back at last December-January (or near those months) to find the major hit.

But, understand Jim, IMO, the best par-excellent Sidereal Astrology chart symbolically for her major accident/injury was her SNQ for the DAY of the accident. Is it OK for me to show Marion's SNQ for the day of her accident under the "Quotidian" Topic?

Sure... although we already discussed it in the other thread, didn't we? FWIW I think the absolute best showing was her immediate, brand new Demi-SLR, with the SNQ triggering or punctuating it.

[Lyse]

November 1998 -
Husband unexpectedly offered a new position within the same company, the house was quickly sold and transferred to the U.S. within a few months.

The move had a profound psychological effect on me and it took more than a year to adjust to not seeing friends and family every day.

The Solar Arcs for this major relocation fit my natal Moon-Pluto conjunction and natal Saturn on the ASC. Have also added the SA Arc of Saturn to the N. Node, it’s a close conjunction and I know Steve uses nodes in his work.

45° SA Directions

16°56’ Lib – r Asc
01°58' Sag – d Saturn

01°25' Leo – r Pluto
16°36' Vir – d Moon

28°08' Can – r Mc
13°01’ Vir – d Pluto

1°54' Sag – r North Node
1°58’ Sag – d Saturn

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Sure... although we already discussed it in the other thread, didn't we? FWIW I think the absolute best showing was her immediate, brand new Demi-SLR, with the SNQ triggering or punctuating it.

Yes, for sure.


Lyse wrote:

The move had a profound psychological effect on me and it took more than a year to adjust to not seeing friends and family every day. The Solar Arcs for this major relocation fit my natal Moon-Pluto conjunction and natal Saturn on the ASC. Have also added the SA Arc of Saturn to the N. Node, it’s a close conjunction and I know Steve uses nodes in his work.

Excellent Solar Arc example Lyse. I note your Natal Node is wired with a mix of benefic and malefic indirect midpoints, one being Mars/Saturn = Node. I sure can see/understand how that Solar Arc Saturn to your r Node brought you down Lyse by separating you from your close friends/family. Also, since your mundo Saturn is only 1,57 from your r Asc, that Solar Arc Saturn partile cnj your r Node carried your r Asc with you for that Solar Arc Saturn to your r Node. Ebertin says for Saturn/Asc = Node:

Being placed in unpleasant family circumstances. The inclination to be secluded from others.

Thanks for your feedback Lyse . I am aware of your possible malefic Oct SLR, keep us informed.

Lyse, out of curiosity I am interested in what happened in your life around July 1980, six months before or after when your Solar Arc Sun & Uranus partile cnj your r MC; with t Uranus partile 90 your MC?

[Lyse]

Thanks for your feedback Lyse . I am aware of your possible malefic Oct SLR, keep us informed.

Thanks Steve, will do - relocating for this lunar, hopefully it minimizes any negative event.

Lyse, out of curiosity I am interested in what happened in your life around July 1980, six months before or after when your Solar Arc Sun & Uranus partile cnj your r MC; with t Uranus partile 90 your MC?

June 1980, my grandfather (second father figure) died, November 1980 father died, both unexpectedly.

[SteveS]

Lyse wrote:

June 1980, my grandfather (second father figure) died, November 1980 father died, both unexpectedly.

Thanks Lyse, this helps with my Solar Arc research. Where was your living residence for these events in your life where I can check your SSRs? Thanks

[Lyse]

Thanks Lyse, this helps with my Solar Arc research. Where was your living residence for these events in your life where I can check your SSRs?

Steve, the SSR for 1980, as well as 1998 took place in Beaconsfield, Quebec, Canada.

[SteveS]

Lyse, for your 1980 SSR I see as the main theme an angular class 1 sq of r Venus to SSR Pluto for the loss of your father.

For your 1998 SSR a main theme of your angular Natal Saturn rising 1,09 cnj your SSR ASC. Jim teaches us r Planets on SSR angles are par-excellent indicators how we REACT to the symbolism in our SSRs. So, we can certainly understand your Saturn inhibition/depression for having to move leaving your friends/family. IMHO, SSRs are very important to consider when we have major stuff happing with Solar Arcs.

Thanks again Lyse for your info/feedback.

FWIW, you have a very important direct midpoint signiture in your Natal of: Pluto/Node = Neptune (0,16). This same midpoint is tied in with your MC as well, and more importantly your Natal Pluto calculates a partile foreground Moon-Pluto conjunction. Lots of important angular Pluto symbolism in your Natal---so I can see/understand where that move in 1998 “isolated” (Pluto) you with Solar Arc Saturn partile cnj your Node which is tied in with that important direct midpoint of Pluto/Node = Neptune. Had to “cut you like a knife” with lots hurt.

[Lyse]

Thanks, Steve.

FWIW, you have a very important direct midpoint signiture in your Natal of: Pluto/Node = Neptune (0,16).

The interpretation of this combination in Ebertin doesn’t make sense in my life, so far. TBH, I’ve never studied nodes, maybe too much else going on in my natal.

Had to “cut you like a knife” with lots hurt.

It was definitely that but got through it and there were advantages long term. It was one State that I’d never visited; to end up buying a house and moving there in a few months was a surprise. Ebertin, Sun-Uranus for a ‘sudden turn in life’.

[SteveS]

Lyse wrote:

The interpretation of this combination in Ebertin doesn’t make sense in my life, so far. TBH, I’ve never studied nodes, maybe too much else going on in my natal.

I agree Lyse, with Pluto symbolism we have to take with a grain of salt with Ebertin’s words, many of his delineations are wrong, must try to interpret important midpoints in the context of one’s modern life vs Ebertin’s days of past. Without knowing certain main themes in your life, I would guess that direct midpoint of Node/Pluto = Neptune may symbolize going through at times heavy/intense (Pluto) confusing (Neptune) things with family/friends (Node).

Ebertin, Sun-Uranus for a ‘sudden turn in life’

Indeed! The main point of interest I learned from your Solar Arc Sun-Uranus to your r MC was t Uranus was partile 90 your r MC which helps me prove Carters words about outer planet transits acting under his “Law of Exciting” a Solar Arc direction into operation. Noel Tyl basically says the same. I am getting ready to begin a case study (40 Natals) about Carter’s “Law of Excitation” with outer planet transits “exciting” a Direction into operation to test its validity.

[Jim Eshelman]

Regarding Lyse's Pl/No = Ne, probably the most important point is that this is just one factor on her "Neptune tree," i.e., Neptune cosmic state. It's not even that there is so much going on in the chart as a whole; it's that Neptune itself has a great deal going on.

I think there are other considerations, too, already mentioned: As Steve mentioned, Ebertin on Pluto has to be taken with a bag of salt. Also, I just don't think the Node is that important of a factor (even when it works, I'm usually left wondering, "What the heck do I do with this? - Associations? Of course, there were associations, i.e., it's not unusual for an event that has some connection to somebody other than myself."

But if I gave it full value on its own, it would be hard to read. I'd theorize that the Pl/No midpoint in a natal chart (in contrast to other Pluto-Node connections, like the transit of one to the other) would be a point connected to disrupting connections (and perhaps sudden forming of casual, or perhaps group, connections) - a merging of the fundamental needs for authenticity and isolation with the process of forming and maintaining ties. I might summarize it as something like "abrupt shifts in ties or associations; forming or, especially, severing connections with impersonal others; having to preserve one's own distinct individuality and authenticity in the course of having connections to other people in general." Then, Neptune on this point would mean (when activated) a tendency to great confusion about this process, or not knowing one's own heart in the matter as needs for connection (being submerged in something, trying to make one's own stable reality about something) swings in unstable dance with that forming and dramatically severing associations.

Or something like that. (By chance did any of that make sense in terms of life experiences?)

But Cosmobiologists would insist that each aspect to another planet or a midpoint is just one part of the entire cosmic state of a planet. This is one place TMSA excels! The Cosmic State report generated for every chart is the most efficient tool I know for seeing the whole view of an individual planet. Here is Lyse's CS report for her Neptune - the ability to look at just her Neptune with all its subtleties:

Code: Select all

Ne Li    | sx Pl  0° 2'    sq Ma  0°22'M   sx No  0°31'    sq Ju  1°32'M   
         | sq Ur  2°29'    sq Su  2°42'    sx Mo  3°37'    
         |    Me/Ju 15'd      Pl/No 22'd      Me/Ma 59'd   

Just in terms of aspects, we see the unusual situation that the Neptune-Pluto sextile everybody had for half a century is only 0°02' wide - unusually strong. (Node is the sextile on the other sider, hence the midpoint.) We see the powerful, perhaps primary impact of a square from Mars (0°22' M) and Jupiter (1°32' M), with squares from Sun-Uranus also close. Before we ever get to the midpoints, we have Neptune in four major squares which surely provide the primary form of what her Neptune means and how it operates. (We could go aspect by aspect, but the gist is that it is powerful, abrupt, leaning toward the positive but not quite expressible as a simple positive-negative balance, and tied into her ego / sense of distinctive self in a way that makes me want to go back and read her Sun's cosmic state).

WITHIN THIS (and not by itself), her Neptune has three partile direct midpoint contacts, of which Pl/No isn't even the closest. The closest is Mercury/Jupiter (15'), with Mercury/Mars also in the mix.

If Reinhold Ebertin had seen this natal, he'd have interpreted the Neptune tree as:

NE = Ma = Ju = Ur = Su = Me/Ju = Pl/No = Me/Ma
(I just cheated: Ebertin wouldn't have seen the mundane aspects, but I included them anyway, so this is what he would have done in principle.

This is the greatest problem astrologers in training have to confront: How to include and balance EVERYTHING in the chart, or in a particular pattern, and not try to reduce a picture to single factors. That's why, in writing CSA, in some chapters I've spent as much time teaching the reader how to think and rewire (or optimize) their brains as I have teaching astrology. In researching the meanings of factors, it's important to isolate what you are studying from every other factor so that you can see it as itself; but in looking at real people, you have to do the opposite: See everything as part of the picture.

BTW, after looking at the Neptune cosmic state summary above, I couldn't resist looking back at Lyse's Sun's CS. No single factor in the chart fully answers the question, "Who am I? What is my life about?" but, more than any other factor, Sun comes closest to this. We see that Sun is background in Cancer, made more important in her psyche because Moon is in Leo, is exactly conjunct Uranus and closely square Neptune (the other aspects perhaps not worth remarking). Within this core identity, she adds themes of the Me/Sa, Ve/Ju, and Ve/As midpoints.

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Su Cn  B | Mo Le+
         | co Ur  0° 4'M   sq Ne  2°42'    co Ma  8°26'    co Ju  9°54'    
         |    Me/Sa 14'i      Ve/Ju 44'd      Ve/As 45'i   

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I'd theorize that the Pl/No midpoint in a natal chart (in contrast to other Pluto-Node connections, like the transit of one to the other) would be a point connected to disrupting connections (and perhaps sudden forming of casual, or perhaps group, connections) - a merging of the fundamental needs for authenticity and isolation with the process of forming and maintaining ties. I might summarize it as something like "abrupt shifts in ties or associations; forming or, especially, severing connections with impersonal others; having to preserve one's own distinct individuality and authenticity in the course of having connections to other people in general." Then, Neptune on this point would mean (when activated) a tendency to great confusion about this process, or not knowing one's own heart in the matter as needs for connection (being submerged in something, trying to make one's own stable reality about something) swings in unstable dance with that forming and dramatically severing associations.

Excellent!

[Venus_Daily]

Hey, Steve.
I really enjoy this thread and the idea of Uranian biology. My SA Venus to Mo/Sun is active from May 2024 to May 2025, but I don't have any outer transits to any angles. I do have some otuer planetary tranits aspecting some planetary points but nothing to the angles. I do obviously have Mo/Venus close partile in the SSR, which I will be making angular. Nodes will be made angular and a real aspect once relocating for my birthday.

Also, how does one calculate Lunar Arcs.

[Jim Eshelman]

Also, how does one calculate Lunar Arcs.

Calculate the lunar arc by subtracting natal Moon from progressed Moon.

Then add this lunar arc to every natal planet and major angle.

These are experimental.