Extended Angularity

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:02 am

Under certain circumstances, some transiting planets can remain near a quotidian or PSSR angle for prolonged periods of time when their relative motion is very slow.

Planets that are candidates for this sort of set-up are the Sun, Mercury, Venus and Mars. Even when using a small orb of 1 or two degrees, this can result in a series of parans to natal, solar and transiting planets, emphasizing transits that otherwise wouldn't be tagged as significant. For an example, I've noticed that transiting Venus will transit close to the Descendant of my PSSR within about two degrees ecliptically for about a month or so next year.

My question: Is this sort of angularity actually effective? Should we instead consider even closer orbs, even exactitude, because unique contact is most significant?

-Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:09 am

I do think, it's effective, yes.

They are not so DISTINCTIVE, though. Having the Sun stay on an angle of the SQ much of the year means you don't get to take credit for it the day your are a celebrity or get kudos from the boss - but you do have a long stretch of getting a certain kind of response from the universe.

I agree that other planets slicing through the angles mark the difference for a particular day. The fast planet staying on an angle turns into a slow planet.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:32 am

A general Venus background aura, with specific daily variations.

It should be quite instructive. I'll endeavor to keep notes as transiting Venus makes parans to various natal, solar and transit planets.

-Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:21 am

I think less and less in terms of parans - have almost eradicated the concept from my mind, partly because of the various barnacles it has picked up in various quarters. Also, it isn't technically a correct term when using ecliptical rather than mundane measurement of angularity. (And I've become convinced that ecliptical angularity is all that matters with quotidians. {Well, except for the EP which is inherently equatorial.} Plus, parans as aspects don't work in most situations, and the mundane aspects that do work are a much wider concept than parans, are rarely exactly parans. But maybe that's a different topic.)

I begun speaking increasingly of co-angularity. YMMV.

In any case, I think the main point is that, as long as Venus is on the angle, you're looking for those times when another planet also crosses an angle, to see what lights it up.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:38 am

I begun speaking increasingly of co-angularity.

I will keep this caveat in mind. If practical, I'll draw distinctions.

In any case, I think the main point is that, as long as Venus is on the angle, you're looking for those times when another planet also crosses an angle, to see what lights it up.

Yep!

-Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Nov 24, 2013 11:17 am

Hi Derek,

Here are some notes by Matthew Quellas who has seriously explore Quotidians with their angular crossings, which has immensely helped me work with Quotidians correlating significant incidents in my life, as well with other AA rated charts of clients and friends.

“Not many siderealists are seriously working with quotidians, yet it's a rich field to see if our "assumptions" are based in actual experience. I generally look at transiting planets on quotidian angles as "opportunities" or "outlets" as well as a particular type of stimulus.

When you're working with quotidians, watch particularly for parans, planets crossing the angles together at the same Local Sidereal Time (LST) for a given day. Parans involving =only= natal planets, like natal Jupiter rising as natal Moon culminates, will not be as "event indicating" as parans involving natals or progressed planets with transitting planets. The "natals only" angular crossings and parans are what have been going on year after year at about the same time (date) every year. Natals with progressed, or natals with transitting, or progressed with transitting are "out of the ordinary" year after year influences. This is particularly true with the Natal Quotidian.

The Solar Quotidian is different. As natal planets are brought to the angles throughout the year, there is a different time base. It won't be the same date each year as with the Natal Quotidian (NQ). So depending on reinforcing transit or SR planet activity, natals to SQ angles can be more important.

As a general rule:
Unless there is a paran involving natal, progressed, SR planets, with quotidian-angular transiting planets, don't expect a significant incident to manifest. One planet angular by itself may or may not be meaningful. It depends on what else is going on. Is it being transitted?

Natal planets are fairly clear, I think: that's what we're born with; they map our habitual response patterns. Secondary progressed planets are, theoretically, still a part of our selves, but are more ephemeral, more transitory. They represent, perhaps, stages of unfolding character. The progressed Moon, particularly, is highly reflective of whatever it is aspecting; often progressed Moon to natal planet X produces results similar to a =transit by planet X=. Sort of a flip- flop of what one would expect.”

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:47 pm

“Not many siderealists are seriously working with quotidians, ...

I plead guilty! But I am looking at Riyal to remedy this. Am still checking it out.

"... yet it's a rich field to see if our "assumptions" are based in actual experience."

I absolutely agree with this, and have advocated quotidians as an ideal way to also investigate any "new" body such as the Black Moon (lunar aphelion), the asteroids, Sedna, Eris, Quaoar, comets, etc.

The rest of the quote makes me wonder whether Mr. Quellas has given thought to collecting and summarizing his experience in print?

-Derek

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:05 pm

One of the few places Matthew and I disagree on this is that he spoke of mundane angularity. At the time he wrote this, I would have agreed - but a couple of things happened since then. I now am pretty solid that all valid Quotidian contacts are ecliptical only (except for the Eastpoint which isn't a real ecliptical point).

The first thing that happened was when I did a day-to-day renewed concentration on quotidian crossings (four systems) for my own chart on this forum about a year ago. I walked into that presuming mundane angularity would prevail but, when there was a difference of more than a day, it was the ecliptical contact that nailed the circumstance. I walked away from that thinking I needed to reassess, but not "sold" on the ecliptical contacts as a clear shift.

Then the mundane astrology project - I started out finding just too many cases where things were "just a bit off" (and trying the Neo-SQ didn't fix the problem). Things were complicated because I started out recreating Bradley's pet examples, which were picked because of his bias that "mundane is where it's at." But as I expanded to other events outside his original published set, what became all too clear was it was the ecliptical contact with quotidian angles that nailed the event.

I am tempted to say that mundane contacts to quotidian angles are useless - truly useless, wrong road, wrong approach. However, I make allowance that maybe - just maybe - they are valid though very much weaker than the ecliptical contacts. (I'd prefer a simpler world, but I admit the world isn't simple.) I believe the best practice is to treat them entirely ecliptically, which means that Solar Fire handles the job perfectly well.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Nov 24, 2013 11:05 pm

Derek wrote:

The rest of the quote makes me wonder whether Mr. Quellas has given thought to collecting and summarizing his experience in print?

Jim would probably know better than me, but I don’t believe Matthew ever committed his astrological experience/knowledge in a published format. I was very lucky to catch Matthew at a time when he was in a teaching frame of mind, answering my many questions about Sidereal Astrology. For a while he and I went on a quotidian trip, and this is when I discovered the remarkable world of personal quotidians. Quotidians are the only method in Astrology which at times can calculate important events, both mundane and personal, to the exact day of an event. I do know this: Matthew is a great Sidereal Astrologer and our learning experience would be enriched if he ever decided to put his astrological experience in a published format. Oh, I just remembered, Jim in the forward of his book ISR said about Matthew:

Every now and then, but not often enough for my tastes, one encounters an individual whose interest in, devotion to, and competence with a subject so nearly matches one’s own that equality is a fact of life and all interactions evokes stretching, pushing limits and growth. Spurred by a ferocious number of Mars interaspects, my relationship with Matthew Quellas has been of this type. Sometimes it is hard to tell where my ideas leave off and his begin, where I have given birth to thoughts and where I have borrowed his. Until I find a way to chain Matthew and his typewriter in one place with no chance of rescue, and compel him, at threat of burning all of his lion posters and statues, to write a book of his own, I want to acknowledge his unavoidable contributions to my opinions.

This was written a long time ago. IMO, there is no telling how much Matthew could contribute to our Sidereal Astrology knowledge today.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:16 am

For those who want to delve into their personal World of Quotidians, I would like to make what I consider an important observation through experience. Take your SSR Chart and identify the potential Parans which exist in your SSR. Then note the days in your Solar year where something dear to your heart is scheduled or happens. Eventually, you will discover some of your potential SSR Parans will become active on a quotidian day where something important happens. For example: The biggest day of any year for my wife is the day Alabama plays Auburn. This year her SSR calculated a potential Uranus (Dsc) Pluto (IC) Paran, which just so happens, this potential SSR Quotidian Paran becomes active on Nov 30th, the day of the Auburn-Bama game. Since there is 365 days in a year, this is a 365-1 odds this UR-PL Paran becomes exact on the day of the Auburn-Bama game. Does her Ur-Pl Paran tell us who will win the game? Not necessarily, it only tells us this special quotidian day in her life will produce a ‘thrilling’ (Uranus) ‘dramatic’ (Pluto) Day in her life, but could tell me this day may be the most thrilling/dramatic Auburn-Bama game in her entire life, with her cherish Auburn Tigers. These possible important quotidian Days in your life does not have to involve a Paran, these Q days could be two or more planetary crossings with your Q angles, involving either 'natal, solar, progressed solar or transiting planets.'