Time Matters 0.5.0 full release (current release)

[Mike V]

Here is the download link for the full (non-alpha) release for 0.5.0 of Time Matters.

Please use this thread to share any questions, thoughts, bugs you run across, etc. In the event that there need to be patches, I will post the updated versions in this thread as well (and hopefully Jim can update this post with the most recent download link if that happens).

Some known things that aren't perfect:

• Sometimes Windows does weird stuff with the pinned shortcut. I still don't know what this is about.
• The text gets pretty vertically squashed if you make your window shorter than the full height of your monitor. I'll address this in one of the upcoming releases.
• The text on the landing page may show as various different sizes for people. On my screen, there's a larger title, and then all the rest of the text is the same size. I also don't know what this is about, but I'm looking into it.

[Revised link: 0.5.7]
https://mega.nz/file/QP9lVBjA#P11-FeUPS ... fg6JgXrCdQ

[Jim Eshelman]

I encourage everyone interested in Time Matters to download and install this.

It sounds like steps toward a full 1.0 release will happy relatively briskly. (Not meaning to put pressure on Mike, but rather to echo what it seems he's been saying.) This can be an exciting time for the program. Your input as we work through the "short list" to 1.0 will be well timed.

[Mike V]

I want to add this, too -

Many things to Jim for all of the testing he did on all of the in-between iterations, many thanks to the other users on this forum for using Time Matters, and extra special thanks to Mike Nelson for putting so much blood, sweat, and tears into this project. We are building on the foundation that he laid, and I'm grateful for the passion he channeled into this.
I still hope that one of these days he pops in like, "surprise! What'd I miss," and then we have the (good) problem of figuring out how to reconcile our separate codebases and coding styles. I recognize that this is not likely, but I think about it anyway.

[Mike V]

It sounds like steps toward a full 1.0 release will happy relatively briskly. (Not meaning to put pressure on Mike, but rather to echo what it seems he's been saying.) This can be an exciting time for the program. Your input as we work through the "short list" to 1.0 will be well timed.

I do think we are moving along comparatively quickly. I expect this first major release to be the bumpiest, and besides a lot of rapid iteration and testing of the alpha, we got through it pretty quickly.

I can't necessarily promise this, but my current feeling is that we can be very close to a 1.0.0 release by the end of 2024. We'll see. I remain highly motivated to crank out new features.

As a reminder, the current status of various upcoming features in Time Matters can be seen on my Trello board - let me know if you want to see it but can't, and I'll give you access. https://trello.com/b/NpRZTYxh/tmsa-roadmap

[Jim Eshelman]

I think the few items left on the priority list are (with the possible exception of pulling planetary stations) all really easy - mostly displaying stuff in existing formats with some simple arithmetic. (But I'm not the one doing the work so my perspective may be utterly skewed. Time will tell because... time matters.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Mike, I hadn't looked at this before (sorry for missing it): I think the Grounds markings (and perhaps the curve implementation) is off on return charts.

Here is Marion's new SLR with Eureka! selected. A few things I notice:

• Transiting Uranus PVL 135°35' - exactly mid-quadrant - has an Ang of 14%. That's what I'd expect from the Cadent curve (Eureka is tighter toward the cadent cusp).
• Batal Moon (12%) is correctly marked background, but Sun (5%) and Pluto (1%) are not, while natal Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and Uranus are wrongly marked b.
• Some transiting background planets were missed, e.g., Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA     Decl   Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang G
                               Transiting Planets                                
Mo 15Le59' 2"  2N41 +11°54' 163°34'  9N54 243°34' +48°12'  26°28' 231°19'   5%  b
Su 27Ta33'31"  0N 0 +57'20"  81°59' 23N14 305°33' - 8°25' 184°55' 169°41'  74%   
Me 25Ta39'17"  0N43 + 2°12'  79°52' 23N50 307°21' - 9°26' 185°45' 168°12'  66%   
Ve 29Ta52'32"  0N17 + 1°14'  84°30' 23N37 304°17' - 6°28' 183°39' 172°12'  84% D 
Ma  7Ar51'38"  1S 6 +44'21"  31° 7' 11N28 346° 5' -43°27' 222°35' 104°15'  68%   
Ju  9Ta 9' 6"  0S42 +13'44"  62°23' 20N18 317°34' -22°47' 197°14' 148° 6'   0%   
Sa 24Aq 7' 4"  1S54 + 1'39" 350°49'  6S 2  51°32' -50°33' 217° 5'  57°12'   1%   
Ur 29Ar45'27"  0S16 + 3'10"  52°33' 18N43 325°14' -29°11' 204°39' 135°35'  14%  b
Ne  4Pi45' 2"  1S16 + 0'37"   0°21'  1S14  34°38' -51°59' 226°28'  66° 2'  10%   
Pl  6Cp38'51"  3S 9 - 1' 2" 304°44' 22S50 102°27' -23°37' 354°37'  24° 8'  52%   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Radical Planets                                 
Mo 15Le59' 2"  3N53 +12°20' 164° 2' 11N 1 244°24' +49°17'  26°40' 232°11'  12%  b
Su 14Ta 1'27"  0N 0 +57'32"  67°24' 21N49 314°38' -18°42' 193°23' 154°34'   5%   
Me 27Ar30'46"  3S35 - 1'49"  51° 8' 14N57 324°25' -33° 8' 207°58' 131°43'  41%  b
Ve 19Ar28' 4"  1S31 + 1°13'  42°33' 14N45 333°24' -36°59' 213°58' 120°44'  50%   
Ma  3Le51' 0"  1N25 +29'21" 151°34' 13N10 257°15' +40°50'  10°48' 221°33'  41%  b
Ju 17Pi58' 6"  1S11 +10'59"  12°28'  4N 4  13°23' -51° 3' 230°17'  79°25'  73%   
Sa 28Cp52'23"  1S 3 + 0'24" 326°38' 14S31  82° 5' -37°33' 186° 3'  37°49'  47%  b
Ur  7Le 7' 9"  0N46 + 1' 7" 154°28' 11N24 253° 9' +42° 8'  14°42' 223°23'  37%  b
Ne 19Li25'23"  1N50 - 1'27" 222°36' 14S27 153°12' +37°15'  34°10' 300°40'  50%   
Pl 15Le19'57" 13N36 + 0'16" 167°21' 20N12 253°37' +57°20'  23°45' 238°24'   1%   

Checking to see whether the right angularity curve was applied, I recalculated the SLR as a stand-alone chart and got this different (and more fitting to Eureka!) angularity:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA     Decl   Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang G
Mo 15Le59' 2"  2N41 +11°54' 163°34'  9N54 243°34' +48°12'  26°28' 231°19'  15%  b
Su 27Ta33'31"  0N 0 +57'20"  81°59' 23N14 305°33' - 8°25' 184°55' 169°41'  74%   
Me 25Ta39'17"  0N43 + 2°12'  79°52' 23N50 307°21' - 9°26' 185°45' 168°12'  67%   
Ve 29Ta52'32"  0N17 + 1°14'  84°30' 23N37 304°17' - 6°28' 183°39' 172°12'  85% D 
Ma  7Ar51'38"  1S 6 +44'21"  31° 7' 11N28 346° 5' -43°27' 222°35' 104°15'  69%   
Ju  9Ta 9' 6"  0S42 +13'44"  62°23' 20N18 317°34' -22°47' 197°14' 148° 6'   1%  b
Sa 24Aq 7' 4"  1S54 + 1'39" 350°49'  6S 2  51°32' -50°33' 217° 5'  57°12'   2%  b
Ur 29Ar45'27"  0S16 + 3'10"  52°33' 18N43 325°14' -29°11' 204°39' 135°35'  32%   
Ne  4Pi45' 2"  1S16 + 0'37"   0°21'  1S14  34°38' -51°59' 226°28'  66° 2'   9%  b
Pl  6Cp38'51"  3S 9 - 1' 2" 304°44' 22S50 102°27' -23°37' 354°37'  24° 8'  51%   

[Mike V]

I bet it’s a biwheel issue. I will take a look later today; I think I know what I can expect to find and what to do about it

[Mike V]

I think the few items left on the priority list are (with the possible exception of pulling planetary stations) all really easy - mostly displaying stuff in existing formats with some simple arithmetic. (But I'm not the one doing the work so my perspective may be utterly skewed. Time will tell because... time matters.)

One important thing I should mention - I am still trying to refactor the codebase so that it's truly ready to live on as an open-source application. It's not there yet, and that's a significant lift (and the source of most of the biwheel bugs we've run into, for example).

[Jim Eshelman]

Got it. (And... sorry to keep repeating myself... that's a reminder of other work lost, since Mikestar said he'd done significant restructuring and cleanup.)

[Jim Eshelman]

I bet it’s a biwheel issue. I will take a look later today; I think I know what I can expect to find and what to do about it

On further looking, I can confirm that in return charts the transiting planets are indeed using Cadent when Eureka! is selected, but the natal planets are not. My guess is that their % is right. (Rerunning in Cadent gives different results, unlike the transiting.)

But the natal planets (while probably correct) have the background (b) markers wrong. This one is really interesting: In Marion's new SLR for tonight, here are the natal planets selecting Mid-Quadrant:

Code: Select all

Mo 15Le59' 2"  3N53 +12°20' 164° 2' 11N 1 244°24' +49°17'  26°40' 232°11'  14%  b
Su 14Ta 1'27"  0N 0 +57'32"  67°24' 21N49 314°38' -18°42' 193°23' 154°34'  44%   
Me 27Ar30'46"  3S35 - 1'49"  51° 8' 14N57 324°25' -33° 8' 207°58' 131°43'   3%  b
Ve 19Ar28' 4"  1S31 + 1°13'  42°33' 14N45 333°24' -36°59' 213°58' 120°44'  33%   
Ma  3Le51' 0"  1N25 +29'21" 151°34' 13N10 257°15' +40°50'  10°48' 221°33'   3%  b
Ju 17Pi58' 6"  1S11 +10'59"  12°28'  4N 4  13°23' -51° 3' 230°17'  79°25'  74%   
Sa 28Cp52'23"  1S 3 + 0'24" 326°38' 14S31  82° 5' -37°33' 186° 3'  37°49'  14%  b
Ur  7Le 7' 9"  0N46 + 1' 7" 154°28' 11N24 253° 9' +42° 8'  14°42' 223°23'   1%  b
Ne 19Li25'23"  1N50 - 1'27" 222°36' 14S27 153°12' +37°15'  34°10' 300°40'  33%   
Pl 15Le19'57" 13N36 + 0'16" 167°21' 20N12 253°37' +57°20'  23°45' 238°24'  31%   

Here are her natal planets in that SLR when selecting Eureka! -

Code: Select all

Mo 15Le59' 2"  3N53 +12°20' 164° 2' 11N 1 244°24' +49°17'  26°40' 232°11'  12%  b
Su 14Ta 1'27"  0N 0 +57'32"  67°24' 21N49 314°38' -18°42' 193°23' 154°34'   5%   
Me 27Ar30'46"  3S35 - 1'49"  51° 8' 14N57 324°25' -33° 8' 207°58' 131°43'  41%  b
Ve 19Ar28' 4"  1S31 + 1°13'  42°33' 14N45 333°24' -36°59' 213°58' 120°44'  50%   
Ma  3Le51' 0"  1N25 +29'21" 151°34' 13N10 257°15' +40°50'  10°48' 221°33'  41%  b
Ju 17Pi58' 6"  1S11 +10'59"  12°28'  4N 4  13°23' -51° 3' 230°17'  79°25'  73%   
Sa 28Cp52'23"  1S 3 + 0'24" 326°38' 14S31  82° 5' -37°33' 186° 3'  37°49'  47%  b
Ur  7Le 7' 9"  0N46 + 1' 7" 154°28' 11N24 253° 9' +42° 8'  14°42' 223°23'  37%  b
Ne 19Li25'23"  1N50 - 1'27" 222°36' 14S27 153°12' +37°15'  34°10' 300°40'  50%   
Pl 15Le19'57" 13N36 + 0'16" 167°21' 20N12 253°37' +57°20'  23°45' 238°24'   1%   

Same background markers even though different angular strengths. Just for completeness, here are they are for Cadent:

Code: Select all

Mo 15Le59' 2"  3N53 +12°20' 164° 2' 11N 1 244°24' +49°17'  26°40' 232°11'   4%  b
Su 14Ta 1'27"  0N 0 +57'32"  67°24' 21N49 314°38' -18°42' 193°23' 154°34'   6%  b
Me 27Ar30'46"  3S35 - 1'49"  51° 8' 14N57 324°25' -33° 8' 207°58' 131°43'  21%  b
Ve 19Ar28' 4"  1S31 + 1°13'  42°33' 14N45 333°24' -36°59' 213°58' 120°44'  40%   
Ma  3Le51' 0"  1N25 +29'21" 151°34' 13N10 257°15' +40°50'  10°48' 221°33'  22%  b
Ju 17Pi58' 6"  1S11 +10'59"  12°28'  4N 4  13°23' -51° 3' 230°17'  79°25'  72%   
Sa 28Cp52'23"  1S 3 + 0'24" 326°38' 14S31  82° 5' -37°33' 186° 3'  37°49'  28%   
Ur  7Le 7' 9"  0N46 + 1' 7" 154°28' 11N24 253° 9' +42° 8'  14°42' 223°23'  18%  b
Ne 19Li25'23"  1N50 - 1'27" 222°36' 14S27 153°12' +37°15'  34°10' 300°40'  40%   
Pl 15Le19'57" 13N36 + 0'16" 167°21' 20N12 253°37' +57°20'  23°45' 238°24'   0%  b

[Mike V]

I think I fixed the angularity curve stuff. Here's 0.5.1. Can you let me know if this looks right to you, especially the way aspects in biwheels are handled? I ran Marion's 6/13 SLR for LA and it looks to me like it's behaving correctly.

https://mega.nz/file/9bVi3bJB#xuyP1Vmbu ... fZEH-R7sUs

For 0.6.x I want to rework the way multi-wheel charts are calculated (not displayed). There's a lot of near-duplication and so there's a lot of places to have differing behavior, like this; it reduces my confidence that I'm catching all of the edge cases.

[Lyse]

Downloaded and installed the current release; this is the message I see when trying to set up an SSR.

https://ibb.co/HTGH0y3

[Mike V]

Thanks for letting me know; I'll have to figure that one out...

[Lyse]

Thanks for letting me know; I'll have to figure that one out...

Thank you, Mike, I’ll uninstall and reinstall a copy of TMSA from another computer.

[Mike V]

I think you should be able to reinstall 0.4.13 from its thread - I think it's still listed here in the Time Matters subforum

[Lyse]

Thanks, will do.

Now that I think about it, could be an issue with Norton.

[Mike V]

I would be very surprised if it's Norton's fault; I think it must be my oversight. I know exactly where that is in the code, and while I'm surprised anything is unstable there (and doubly so since I ran one of my SSRs as a test and it was fine), I have a hypothesis which I'll test after work.

[Lyse]

Thanks!

[Mike V]

Thanks, will do.

Now that I think about it, could be an issue with Norton.

Oh! I know exactly what this is. I just tested it locally and it runs fine.

You need to recalculate your natal chart once. (Go to Select Chart -> Recalculate Chart. Make sure the settings, like location, are correct, and then calculate it.)
The reason for this is that we added a new data column in this new release (meridian longitude), so some things shifted. The code calculating your SSR assumed your chart has that column in it, but without recalculating the chart, it doesn't.

I'm going to add a warning about this in a future release - either a 0.6 beta release, if Jim confirms that everything looks good to him on 0.5.1, or if there are still patches needed for 0.5, I'll include that in the next one.

Thank you Lyse for bringing this up to us. I ran into this in testing a few weeks back, but I recalculated my chart and then promptly forgot that others would also run into this.

[Mike V]

Also, sorry, I lied - please use 0.5.2, here:
https://mega.nz/file/paVU1TpR#vpsnHSdIW ... retIWQhPEA

Today has been crazy and at some point I made some changes and forgot to upload it.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'll get this installed and tested tomorrow. - Yes, earlier today I got the same error message when I pulled up a chart, did NOT recalculate it, and ran solar returns - so I hit recalc and then it worked fine.

Since every stored chart has the calculated version at the bottom but that might be too hard to extract. Interestingly, the *.DAT file does not have a variable for software version (and it would be easy to add). I suppose you could add that to the *.DAT file going forward, then (in current and alter versions) do a test to make sure a chart was run using a sufficiently recent version (draw the line at 0.5.0 at present, 1.0 later, or draw the line anytime you think something has changed that will affect things) and pop up an advisory box whenever someone tries to use it for anything other than display.

[Mike V]

Good idea, I forgot about those data files. I'll add that in somewhere.

[Jim Eshelman]

I went ahead and took time to install it. Marion's new SLR has the Background markers in the right place. Transiting planets' Ang scores match those when the chart is recalculated as a stand-alone. Looks like it's fixed.

I also ran my current SLR for Wright City and the background markers are all in the correct places. BTW, it also has PVP aspects I don't remember noticing before (though I may have forgotten):

90°10' - t Sun azimuth
91°16' - t Venus azimuth
359°93' - r Sun azimuth

Therefore, a 1°06' PVP conjunction that was there in the chart as a similarly close ecliptical aspect anyway, but not in any place that made it important. Then, it also squares natal Sun (something not seen in the chart otherwise). -- Taking this against the planets that are around the horizon (these are all ML positions):

27°41' H12 - r Mars
29°50' H6 - r Uranus
------------------------
0°01' H7 - r Jupiter
0°09' H1 - t Sun
0°45' H1 - t Pluto
1°11' H1 - t Venus

I don't know if these aspects are valid in lunars, but there sure are a lot of them - and they were sure easy to calculate!

[Lyse]

please use 0.5.2, here

Thanks Mike, I downloaded and installed 0.5.2. There must be an issue, maybe on my end, because I’m still unable to get a biwheel, just the SSR.

UPDATE: I just got it to work correctly.

[Jim Eshelman]

Mike, I wonder if, in rightfully forcing all SSR Moon (transiting Moon in SSR) aspects to be displayed, the program is also forcing all natal Moon aspects to be displayed.

Steve's niece was born July 1, 1985, 7:20 AM CDT, Birmingham, AL. Checking her next (2024) SSR, also for Birmingham, I get the following:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA     Decl   Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang G
                               Transiting Planets                                
Mo 19Ar 0' 3"  2N43 +13°54'  40°46' 18N39 118°34' +63°50'  44°14' 293°20'  52%   
Su 15Ge 3'56"  0N 0 +57'13" 101° 2' 23N 3  73°11' +16°56' 174°58' 342°22'  36%   
Me  3Cn 7'36"  1N50 + 1°46' 120°42' 22N19  63°51' + 1°17' 179°26' 358°35'  99% A 
Ve 22Ge25'10"  0N56 + 1°14' 109° 6' 23N13  69° 7' +10°40' 176°10' 348°37'  99% E 
Ma 21Ar14'48"  0S57 +43' 9"  44° 9' 15N49 118°47' +59°33'  39°19' 297°16'  50%   
Ju 13Ta14'43"  0S42 +12'58"  66°42' 21N 0  92°34' +44°15'   2°30' 315°44'  31% Av
Sa 24Aq20'38"  1S59 - 0'10" 351° 4'  6S 1 216°24' +43°38'  37°30' 238° 6'   1%  b
Ur  0Ta39'42"  0S16 + 2'42"  53°29' 18N56 104°35' +54° 8'  19°12' 304°59'  49%   
Ne  4Pi51' 0"  1S17 + 0' 2"   0°27'  1S12 207° 0' +52° 5'  48°50' 250°31'  27%   
Pl  6Cp17'17"  3S11 - 1'18" 304°22' 22S58 241°19' + 1° 3'   0°30' 181°11' 100% D 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Radical Planets                                 
Mo  1Sg51'38"  3S15 +14°22' 266°35' 26S39 256°18' -30°13' 352° 9' 149° 3'   0%  b
Su 15Ge 3'56"  0S 0 +57'11" 101° 2' 23N 3  73°11' +16°56' 174°58' 342°22'  36%   
Me  8Cn 3'42"  1N26 + 1°30' 125°47' 20N51  62°11' - 3°23' 181°35'   3°49'  97% A 
Ve  0Ta20'45"  2S51 + 1° 3'  53°48' 16N21 107°56' +52°29'  21°51' 306° 9'  49%   
Ma 20Ge 3'51"  0N58 +39'21" 106°33' 23N32  70° 5' +12°49' 175°34' 346°24' 100% Ea
Ju 21Cp19'40"  0S45 - 4'49" 319° 6' 16S38 237° 7' +15°42'   8°40' 198°30'  58%   
Sa 27Li24' 8"  2N15 - 2'16" 230°41' 16S13 291° 3' -54°51' 207° 1' 123°19'  50%   
Ur 20Sc28'48"  0S 2 - 2'10" 254°19' 22S41 266°24' -38°38' 357° 7' 141°19'  15%  b
Ne  7Sg29'54"  1N10 - 1'36" 272°47' 22S15 257°52' -23°12' 354°51' 156°20'  10%  b
Pl  7Li25'22" 16N54 - 0'22" 216° 3'  3N34 329°53' -48°38' 224°29' 113°50'  51%   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMo co tMa  2°15' 78%   tMa sq rJu  0° 5'100%                           
tMe op tPl  2°37' 71% M tUr co rVe  0°19'100%                           
----------------------   ----------------------                         
tMo sq rJu  2°20' 90%   rMe sq rPl  0°38' 99%                           
tMo op rPl  0°30' 99% M                                                 
tVe co rMa  2°13' 79% M                                                 
tSa sq rMo  0°57' 98% M                                                 
tPl op rMe  1°46' 86% 

Notice under Class 1 aspects we have transiting Saturn square natal Moon 0°57' mundo. However, both transiting Saturn and natal Moon are in the remote background (correctly identified as such). This aspect shouldn't show (except under Other Partile Aspects).

The simplest thing I can think of is that the code forcing transiting Moon to be treated as if it were foreground (so its aspects will always show) is also affecting natal Moon (which it should not).

[Mike V]

Yep, that for sure is what is happening. I will figure this out when I get time - may have to wait until tomorrow. Been inundated with work-work.

[Jim Eshelman]

I understand that, fer shoor - It's been a week!

Meanwhile, the delete key works.

[Jim Eshelman]

On further looking, I don't think that's the problem. Before continuing, let me emphasize that my delete key still works fine and I understand the concept of "unusually busy week."

I now suspect that something is causing very background factors to be treated as if foreground. That would fit the Saturn-Moon example above. I just reran my new Demi-SLR coming in tonight and discovered that the three background planets are all showing in aspect (but interestingly, a couple of middleground aspects are [correctly] not showing. Here is the table:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA     Decl   Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang G
                               Transiting Planets                                
Mo 27Le24' 0"  1N46 +11°49' 173°48'  4N37 208° 2' +57°33'  54°14' 253°22' 100% Z 
Su 28Ta28'43"  0N 0 +57'19"  82°59' 23N17 297°41' + 1° 4' 179°30' 181°12' 100% D 
Me 27Ta46'20"  0N52 + 2°12'  82°10' 24N 6 298°48' + 0°58' 179°32' 181° 6' 100% D 
Ve  1Ge 3'31"  0N19 + 1°14'  85°47' 23N42 296°30' + 3°22' 178°30' 183°46'  97% D 
Ma  8Ar34'19"  1S 5 +44'18"  31°48' 11N42 329°59' -39° 8' 215°10' 121°35'  50%   
Ju  9Ta22'19"  0S42 +13'42"  62°37' 20N20 308° 4' -15° 4' 189°26' 161° 7'  30%   
Sa 24Aq 8'36"  1S55 + 1'33" 350°51'  6S 1  34° 7' -57°34' 232°30'  70°23'  26%   
Ur 29Ar48'30"  0S16 + 3' 9"  52°36' 18N44 314°26' -22°31' 196°11' 149°52'   0%  b
Ne  4Pi45'37"  1S16 + 0'35"   0°21'  1S13  14°42' -56°18' 235°25'  80°24'  77% I 
Pl  6Cp37'52"  3S 9 - 1' 3" 304°43' 22S51  96°26' -33°44' 355°43'  33°54'  50%   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Radical Planets                                 
Mo 27Aq24' 0"  4N46 +14°42' 351°13'  1N24  28° 5' -51° 1' 227°28'  69° 8' 100% N 
Su 22Vi27'42"  0N 0 +59'17" 196°10'  6S53 168°24' +48°24'  47°49' 280° 7'  81%   
Me 17Li21' 3"  3S10 +44'52" 218°58' 18S35 146°17' +29°52'  25°32' 314° 2'  36%   
Ve  1Sc52'48"  5S48 +29'45" 233°12' 25S 7 138°10' +17° 9'  12°57' 335°10'   7%  b
Ma 28Sg55'21"  2S50 +36'43" 296°26' 24S 6 101°44' -27°31' 353°57'  28° 1'  50%   
Ju  3Cn36'46"  0N 9 + 6'44" 120°51' 20N34 276° 1' +29°30' 176°36' 209°38'  50%   
Sa 14Li56'37"  2N10 + 6'50" 218°19' 12S46 143°31' +35°14'  29°36' 310° 5'  44%   
Ur  3Cn19'58"  0N30 + 1'17" 120°38' 20N58 276°32' +29°30' 176°19' 209°40'  50%   
Ne  1Li20'24"  1N39 + 2'13" 205° 7'  8S39 156°36' +44°27'  42° 0' 292° 2'  53%   
Pl  2Le 6' 8"  9N55 + 1'20" 153° 2' 21N44 257°43' +56°34'  17°51' 237°10'   2%  b
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMo sq tSu  1° 5' 98%   tJu sq tSa  0°44' 99% M                         
tMo sq tMe  0°22'100%    ----------------------                         
tSu co tMe  0° 6'100% M rJu co rUr  0° 2'100% M                         
tSu co tVe  2°34' 72% M                                                 
tMe co tVe  2°40' 70% M                                                 
----------------------                                                  
tSu sq rMo  1° 5' 98%                                                   
tMe sq rMo  0°22'100%                                                   
tUr op rVe  2° 4' 81%                                                   
tUr sq rPl  2°18' 90%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
rVe sq rPl  0°13'100

Notice that Uranus transits to natal Venus-Pluto plus the natal Venus-Pluto square itself are in the Class 1 Aspects column - even though those three planets are correctly marked background at 0%, 7%, and 2% angularity strength.

However, t Jupiter-Saturn and r Jupiter-Uranus only [correctly] appear in the Other Partile Aspects column. These are middleground.

I'm not AS sure what's going on as I thought I was, but this now seems to be the distinguishing characteristic (and it matches the other example).

[Mike V]

Good catch! I found the issue. Due to the way the logic worked, "background" counted as an angle... which means the background t. Uranus got included with foreground aspects. Anything that was getting marked background was being treated identically to the planets being marked foreground, because there was no difference between "A", "M", "Ea", etc, and "b" - they were all "on some angle."

It should be fixed now. I reran your DSLR and it does not include t. Uranus in the aspect table (though it still shows as "other partile" if that option is checked).

0.5.4 can be found here. (As another indicator of how busy this week has been... I believe that 0.5.1 and 0.5.2 are actually completely identical. When I said I "forgot to upload it," I think I just forgot to merge it into the main branch, so I thought it was another set of changes. Sorry for the extra work.)

(I had uploaded 0.5.3 but realized immediately after that the same bug was in Uniwheel code too; I'm editing this message and the download link. Confirmed that recalculating the DSLR as a single wheel does not show background planet aspects as if they were foreground.)

https://mega.nz/file/4f1QnbzI#3vGLR1dXx ... Vl-gTxv5B0

Also, what a busy-looking Demi-SLR you have! Mostly positive... but super busy.

[Jim Eshelman]

Also, what a busy-looking Demi-SLR you have! Mostly positive... but super busy.

Basically just the Moon-Sun-Mercury tight aspects (with a light spread of Venus). It should be interesting.

Installing now.

[Mike V]

Oh yes, I meant busy as in "life looks busy," not that the chart looks busy.

[Jim Eshelman]

Confirmed that the background planets aren't in the main aspect list of my Demi.

However, for some reason Mercury's foreground transit to natal Moon got knocked out of the main aspect list (even though the identical transiting Moon square natal Mercury is there). I'm guessing the process that ensures that natal Moon isn't automatically made foreground happened after the aspects were compiled???

Code: Select all

    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMo sq tSu  1° 5' 98%   tJu sq tSa  0°44' 99% M                         
tMo sq tMe  0°22'100%    ----------------------                         
tSu co tMe  0° 6'100% M tMe sq rMo  0°22'100%                           
tSu co tVe  2°34' 72% M  ----------------------                         
tMe co tVe  2°40' 70% M rVe sq rPl  0°13'100%                           
                        rJu co rUr  0° 2'100% M

Steve's niece's upcoming solar also correctly has t Saturn conjunct natal Moon out of the foreground group/

[Mike V]

I'll take a look at this when I have time in the next few days.

In 0.6, one of my major goals is to completely refactor all of this. It's very difficult to tell what's going on or what will happen if something is altered. Refactoring this section of the code will slow that release down, but it will stabilize all of this (and it needs to happen pre-1.0 anyway).

[Mike V]

However, for some reason Mercury's foreground transit to natal Moon got knocked out of the main aspect list (even though the identical transiting Moon square natal Mercury is there). I'm guessing the process that ensures that natal Moon isn't automatically made foreground happened after the aspects were compiled???

What's weird is that I am seeing t. Mercury to t. and r. Moon listed in class 1:

Code: Select all

    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMo sq tSu  1° 5' 98%   tJu sq tSa  0°44' 99% M                         
tMo sq tMe  0°22'100%    ----------------------                         
tMo sq tJu  2°15' 90% M tEr op rNe  0°28'100% M                         
tMo op tSa  2°58' 83% M  ----------------------                         
tSu co tMe  0° 6'100% M rVe sq rPl  0°13'100%                           
tSu co tVe  2°34' 87% M rJu co rUr  0° 2'100% M                         
tMe co tVe  2°40' 86% M                                                 
----------------------                                                  
tSu sq rMo  1° 5' 98%                                                   
tMe sq rMo  0°22'100%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
rSu op rEr  0°38' 99% M                       

I have it set for 1+ FG, include partile aspects, class 1 has 3° orb and nothing else has any orb.

[Patrick Machado]

Folks, it seems that ecliptical partile natal aspects are being listed for every Return once again. (As early as version 0.4.13 at least.) I'm assuming this is an unintentional change? It hadn't been like that for the longest time.

[Jim Eshelman]

Folks, it seems that ecliptical partile natal aspects are being listed for every Return once again. (As early as version 0.4.13 at least.) I'm assuming this is an unintentional change? It hadn't been like that for the longest time.

That's the way Mike N had it for quite most of version 0.4.x. We originally had it more nuanced than that, and the coding got too complicated for him. I'm sure we'll get back there one of these days but, yeah, they're always there - I have to delete my Venus-Pluto and Jupiter-Uranus every time.

In fact, I'll add that to the non-priority Wish List as an improvement: Nuancing the aspects displayed (especially in Other Partile Aspects) in return charts. - The fairly complicated "do this, don't do that" set of rules for what we want will go much better after Mike V streamlines the code of the whole program, which he's already in the process of doing.

Example: I just did Donald Sutherland's final Demi-SLR for Miami. Under Other Partile Aspects, it correctly includes t Ve-Ne sq and t Ma-Pl sq. We'd prefer it doesn't include his partile natal ecliptical Moon-Jupiter sq (10') and Sun-Mars sq (21') because these always exist - they add nothing - there is no reason they would uniquely show in his life for the current fortnight in contrast to the rest of his life. It also shows t Moon sq r Jupiter (ecliptical), which is just a duplicate of his natal Moon-Jupiter sq. - We can filter this out when the coding is cleaned up. (At the time he hit this wall and it wasn't coming out right, Mike N decided just to list everything and let the astrologer sort it out.)

[Mike V]

I have been thinking about this exact topic recently; it bugs me too. Once this code-tightening is complete, this should be much, much easier to do...

For all aspects, we take the closest orb. For example, if a mundane conjunction between 2 foreground planets in an SSR is closer than the ecliptical aspect, we only list the mundane conjunction and orb. (All the frameworks and their orbs are considered, and the wider ones are tossed in the trash. Right now, "all the frameworks" means just in longitude and prime vertical longitude, but in theory this would include PVP aspect orbs if those are enabled... I think. My rewrite includes and checks that category, but for now returns a blank aspect with no calculation done.)

For these "other partile" aspects (in the code, they were and are still identified as the special class "class 4"), if they are natal to natal and their closest orb is the ecliptical one... Skip em.

It's not trivial at all to do that with the current "live" code, but it will be a lot simpler once I'm done repainting the walls and rearranging the furniture so to speak.

For that matter, I would say I'm about 1/3 of the way done with that rewrite. I'm still in the process of writing tests, and I'm probably more than halfway done with the actual chart-generation logic (although it is not yet tested).

[Patrick Machado]

Folks, it seems that ecliptical partile natal aspects are being listed for every Return once again. (As early as version 0.4.13 at least.) I'm assuming this is an unintentional change? It hadn't been like that for the longest time.

That's the way Mike N had it for quite most of version 0.4.x. We originally had it more nuanced than that, and the coding got too complicated for him. I'm sure we'll get back there one of these days but, yeah, they're always there - I have to delete my Venus-Pluto and Jupiter-Uranus every time.

They're not there as late as version 0.4.8, which was Mike N's penultimate released version (and the one I'd been using the longest), so I thought it had changed with Mike V's run only. In any case, if it wasn't unintended, it really isn't a big deal.

[Jim Eshelman]

Mike N intended it in the sense that when he couldn't solve a problem one way, he picked this to "cut to the chase" and move on to other things.

But it's "not intended" in the sense that we don't want it this way long-run and at some point it will be changed.

[Jim Eshelman]

Calculate my SLR for January 7, 2022, at my home 34N03'46" 118W18'47".

Natal Neptune is one of twelve foreground planets, correctly scoring 100% strength on Zenith.

However, no aspects of Neptune to other foreground show in the aspectarian. In fact, (foreground 100%) transiting Pluto's square to natal Neptune appears in the Other Partile Aspect list.

My natal Mars-Neptune square doesn't show, even though transiting Pluto's conjunction with (closely foreground) natal Mars does show.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA     Decl   Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang G
                               Transiting Planets                                
Mo 27Aq24' 0"  4S47 +13°17' 354°58'  7S23  70°38' -38° 2' 194°32'  39°39'  45%   
Su 22Sg16' 1"  0S 0 + 1° 1' 288°46' 22S19 122°19' + 6°12'   3°19' 352°41'  87% A 
Me 11Cp28' 9"  0S51 + 1° 1' 309° 8' 19S28 108°36' - 7°18' 357°40'   7°42'  88% A 
Ve 24Sg31'12"  4N33 -36'33" 290°29' 17S31 117°34' + 8° 4'   3°45' 350°55'  80% A 
Ma 22Sc47'51"  0S12 +42'54" 256°46' 23S 5 146°16' +24°41'  20°55' 320°23'  18%  b
Ju  6Aq50' 5"  0S59 +12'18" 334°14' 11S44  88°23' -23°39' 180°42'  23°39'  52% Av
Sa 17Cp35'33"  0S50 + 6'44" 315°21' 17S48 103°56' -11°21' 357°14'  11°41'  89% Ea
Ur 15Ar49'37"  0S24 - 0'34"  38°35' 14N42   6°19' -41° 1' 220°50'  82°47'  87% I 
Ne 25Aq45' 5"  1S 8 + 1'14" 351°59'  4S41  70°16' -34° 2' 192°50'  35°39'  49%   
Pl  1Cp 6'23"  1S44 + 1'58" 298°30' 22S37 116°54' - 1° 1' 359°33'   1° 8' 100% A 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Radical Planets                                 
Mo 27Aq24' 0"  4N46 +14°42' 351°11'  1N23  65°24' -29°31' 193°16'  31°55'  50%   
Su 22Vi27'42"  0N 0 +59'17" 196° 8'  6S52 217°35' +41°34'  35° 6' 235°29'   5%  b
Me 17Li21' 3"  3S10 +44'52" 218°56' 18S35 185°26' +37°11'  37° 3' 262°53'  87% M 
Ve  1Sc52'48"  5S48 +29'45" 233° 9' 25S 7 169°53' +30° 7'  29°44' 286°50'  62%   
Ma 28Sg55'21"  2S50 +36'43" 296°23' 24S 6 119°15' - 0°21' 359°50'   0°25' 100% A 
Ju  3Cn36'46"  0N 9 + 6'44" 120°49' 20N35 293°59' + 1°31' 179°23' 181°40'  99% D 
Sa 14Li56'37"  2N10 + 6'50" 218°17' 12S45 186°58' +42°55'  42°43' 262°34'  86% M 
Ur  3Cn19'58"  0N30 + 1'17" 120°36' 20N58 294°25' + 1°35' 179°21' 181°45'  99% D 
Ne  1Li20'24"  1N39 + 2'13" 205° 5'  8S38 205°41' +43°52'  40°54' 245°44' 100% Z 
Pl  2Le 6' 8"  9N55 + 1'20" 152°59' 21N45 278°40' +27°40' 175°29' 207°56'  50%   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tSu co tVe  1°45' 97% M tSu sq rSu  0°12'100%                           
tSu sq tUr  0° 7'100% M tPl sq rNe  0°14'100%                           
tMe co tSa  3°59' 83% M 
tVe sq tUr  1°52' 93% M 
tSa sq tUr  1°46' 94%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
tSu sq rMe  0°12'100% M                                                 
tSu sq rSa  0° 6'100% M                                                 
tVe sq rMe  1°57' 93% M                                                 
tVe sq rSa  1°39' 95% M                                                 
tSa sq rMe  0°14'100%                                                   
tSa sq rSa  2°39' 86%                                                   
tUr op rMe  0° 5'100% M                                                 
tUr op rSa  0°13'100% M                                                 
tPl co rMa  0°43' 99% M                                                 
tPl op rJu  0°32'100% M                                                 
tPl op rUr  0°37'100% M                                                 
----------------------                                                  
rMe co rSa  0°18'100% M                                                 
rMa op rJu  1°15' 98% M                                                 
rMa op rUr  1°20' 98% M                                                 
rJu co rUr  0° 5'100% M                                                 

[Mike V]

I have reproduced this locally. I turned on some logs... see anything wrong with this?

Code: Select all

Foreground planets: 
['tSun', 'tMercury', 'tVenus', 'tSaturn', 
'tUranus', 'tPluto', 'rMercury', 'rMars', 
'rJupiter', 'rSaturn', 'rUranus']

Natal Neptune isn't in there! No wonder it's skipping those aspects. Squares to Ascendant (at least, and at least for natal planets) seem like they're getting neglected. I'll work on a fix.

[Mike V]

0.5.5 can be downloaded here.

https://mega.nz/file/wXVWXLqb#H3H8xcefX ... 23pPrHi2E4

It seems like it's fixed, and I don't think I broke anything else.
The issue was that I was checking to see if planets
1. Had some angle that they were on, and
2. They were not mundanely background (in whatever curve being used).

That second check broke situations like this, where I guess Neptune is considered background from a purely PVL perspective, but it was actually on a minor angle.
The same bug existed with natal charts, so I patched that too.

[Jim Eshelman]

Cool. I'll install and test. I'm not clear of the purpose of #2 check (and maybe I don't need to understand). - There are enough things dependent on "if this planet is foreground (by whatever criteria the current chart is using), do such and so" that I'm surprised there isn't a simple 0/1 flag set to tick off foreground once that's first determined. (Then again, I don't know how the whole logic goes.)

Anyway, I'll install and confirm.

[Jim Eshelman]

Fix confirmed on that SLR. I also reran Marion's natal under "2 FG" settings and it picked up her Mars-Uranus conjunction (both planets square Asc).

[fivesight]

How are you converting the tables of position, aspects, cosmic conditions etc. into readable tables?
I've tried several ways to import the data into Excel, and the only ones that work (manually converting the rows into a CSV format) are very time consuming - almost as time consuming as counting across the columns for the information I want to see. I know that this is probably in the forum somewhere, but I haven't found it do to limited time on my end, so any help would be appreciated. Seriously.

[Jim Eshelman]

How are you converting the tables of position, aspects, cosmic conditions etc. into readable tables?
I've tried several ways to import the data into Excel, and the only ones that work (manually converting the rows into a CSV format) are very time consuming - almost as time consuming as counting across the columns for the information I want to see. I know that this is probably in the forum somewhere, but I haven't found it do to limited time on my end, so any help would be appreciated. Seriously.

Welcome back, fivesight.

I'm not sure what the question. Have you looked at the program's output? The tables are pretty straightforward. I'll give an example below.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA     Decl   Azi     Alt      ML     PVL    Ang G
Mo 27Aq24' 0"  4N46 +14°42' 350°20'  1N 1 274°11' - 3°14' 180°14' 176°45'  97% D 
Su 22Vi27'42"  0N 0 +59'17" 195°16'  6S31  81°47' -19° 8' 182°50'  19°19'  57%   
Me 17Li21' 3"  3S10 +44'52" 218° 0' 18S18  75°14' -43°36' 193°39'  44°34'  34%   
Ve  1Sc52'48"  5S48 +29'45" 232°10' 24S54  70° 7' -57°58' 208°33'  59°32'   0%  b
Ma 28Sg55'21"  2S50 +36'43" 295°23' 24S16 294°46' -60° 0' 215°57' 117°40'  50%   
Ju  3Cn36'46"  0N 9 + 6'44" 119°50' 20N46 114°28' +54°36'  30°14' 302°54'  50%   
Sa 14Li56'37"  2N10 + 6'50" 217°22' 12S28  69°57' -39°17' 195°39'  41° 2'  42%   
Ur  3Cn19'58"  0N30 + 1'17" 119°37' 21N10 114°12' +55° 1'  30°22' 302°33'  50%   
Ne  1Li20'24"  1N39 + 2'13" 204°12'  8S18  76°50' -26°56' 186°36'  27°33'  50%   
Pl  2Le 6' 8"  9N55 + 1'20" 152° 4' 22N 5  87°13' +31°40' 178°17' 328°19'   1% Av
Er 14Pi 1'12" 24S 0 - 0'38"  17°14' 18S46 241°45' + 3° 1'   1°26' 183°26'  97% D 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects         Class 2 Aspects         Class 3 Aspects     
Mo sx Ma  1°31' 95%      Mo tr Ve  4°29' 62%       Mo tr Ju  6°13' 29%  
Me co Sa  2°24' 94%      Mo co Er  6°41' 53% M     Mo oc Sa  2°33' 26%  
Ve sx Ma  2°57' 83%      Ma op Ju  4°41' 76%       Mo tr Ur  5°56' 35%  
Ve tr Ju  1°44' 94%      Ma op Ur  4°25' 79%       Su sq Ma  6°28' 24%  
Ve tr Ur  1°27' 96%                                Su co Ne  8°14' 30% M
Ve sq Pl  0°13'100%                                Su op Er  8°26' 27%  
Ma sq Ne  0° 7'100% M                              Ve oc Er  2°52'  8%  
Ju co Ur  0°17'100%                                                     
Ju sq Ne  2°16' 90%                                                     
Ur sq Ne  2° 0' 92%                                                     
Ne sx Pl  0°46' 99%                                                     

[fivesight]

I'm currently trying to run version 5.5, but unfortunately this is a Windows 10 pro machine, and after reading that people have issues with it, I wonder if my problem is one of these issues.

[Jim Eshelman]

Windows 10 installs and runs it fine. We can troubleshoot your install problem.

Is the program not installing? Or is it installing and not running (or not running as expected)?

A common problem involves security issues since this software doesn't have a security certificate. What Windows normally does is alert you that you need to be careful, allow you to click a link for more information, and then offer you a button to install anyway. After that it works fine.

However, some aggressive third-party virus checkers may decide to fight you harder on this. (Norton is an absolute bastard about it.) This is one of many reasons I don't let any such programs run (or stay installed on) my computers.

Is this a personal Win 10 Pro machine or an employer-provided machine? If the latter, there may be other security issues.

But I'm guessing. I don't even know if the problem is with installation (the most likely) or running. Please advise.

[fivesight]

Well, it's a personal version of Win 10 pro, and I do get the security message when trying to install (I think I started my install series back on TMSA 4.2), but I just tell it to run anyway. I don't have Norton installed and almost everyday I get junk mail trying to claim I am interested in McAffee.
TMSA is giving me the correct data, I think, but displaying the data properly is the problem.
Is it possible that it is not installed properly? Is it because the output should happen somewhere in another directory instead of the main directory for the program? Since TMSA is not so revealing about that sort of thing (doesn't even tell me where it is installed - I had to backtrack from the properties of the shortcut once to find out), I keep wondering why I'm getting this text file instead of a regular display.
I should let you know that I had an original copy of Nova on my first DOS machine (1990? I still have the manual, which is where I learned the difference between the RAMC and the RAAS). Today I do most of my work in Solar Fire 9, and some in other astrological software.
I worked for a while in IT, but I've got this nasty Mars at the MC that made it hard for me to do the employee game for long.
Anyway, when I get some time later, I'm going to try and force installs to other places, because I really need the PVL and ML data to do my work properly. I don't have a math program I can use to quickly compute them, plus you guys have already invented that wheel!
I'm looking forward to making more contributions to the numerous threads I'm interested in here, so thanks in advance for any suggestions or solutions.

[Jim Eshelman]

TMSA is giving me the correct data, I think, but displaying the data properly is the problem.

Since I don't know what your display look like, I don't know if it's right or wrong. I gave you a sample immediately above.

Is it because the output should happen somewhere in another directory instead of the main directory for the program?

TM's output is done by the program opening your default text editor (usually Notepad) and displaying the content in a new Notepad window.

Since TMSA is not so revealing about that sort of thing (doesn't even tell me where it is installed - I had to backtrack from the properties of the shortcut once to find out), I keep wondering why I'm getting this text file instead of a regular display.

The text file IS it's "regular display." Are you perhaps expecting something different than the program intends to show? It's 100% text based.

So that your calculated chart files show easily across computers, the output and configuration files are stored in the TMSA folder of your default Documents folder (which on a standard Windows installation is in your OneDrive and therefore automatically syncs across computers you use). - In Documents\TMSA you'll see a charts folder and options folder.

Anyway, when I get some time later, I'm going to try and force installs to other places, because I really need the PVL and ML data to do my work properly. I don't have a math program I can use to quickly compute them, plus you guys have already invented that wheel!
I'm looking forward to making more contributions to the numerous threads I'm interested in here, so thanks in advance for any suggestions or solutions.

It may be doing exactly what it's supposed to. Look at my sample (the green text box) above.