SSRs "outstanding" or not?!

[Arena]

Alright, since I'm on the roll now, I'll check out and compare the two birth times for "outstanding incidents" in my SSR's. The birth times I'm comparing are the recorded one 23.40 and then a possible suspect of somewhere near 23.27.

The first is the current one for 2023-2024. Since it took place in Tenerife, it will be four different charts to look at with the relocated back home charts as well. I believe they do count since that's where we actually spend the year.

Here is a link to a breakdown of my SSR for 2023:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7563

The comparison would be for the 23.27 bt in both places:

23.27 bt SSR Tenerife:

T. Jupiter partile EP
T. Uranus partile ASC

23.27 bt back home:
Nothing partile angles nor luminaries.
T. Mer 1.26° sq rel. ASC



So the second one I will post is 2024-2025. I might continue with this thread for later SSRs and possibly previous ones since I know the history of living something that can be seen as "outstanding".

2024 SSR for 23.27:
Denotes an "outstanding incident" of Sun-Mars nature.
The Sun is partile square the SSR MC and for this bt t. Mars is partile conj. rel. ASC!.

Both Venus and Mercury are within 3° from the SSR ecl.

2024 SSR for 23.40:
Nothing partile any angles.
T. Mer within 2° from SSR. ecl Asc, but outside 3° mundanely.
T. Jup within 2° from rel. Asc.
T. Sun within 3° from sq. SSR MC.
T. Moon within 3° opp. t. Pluto.

[Arena]

Since it's my birthday today, I thought it would be appropriate to check out those SSRs from last year that I made for comparison of birth times and locations.

I now know that this current SSR did not carry any outstanding incidents. It will not stand out in years to come. The only thing that is unusual was the blood cleanse for health and the sale of my biggest painting. But sales in general were not good and most definately not a partile Sun year with spotlight nor partile Jup or Ur since nothing really changed although we were contemplating on moving houses.

This means to me that the relocated SSR is not working at all for neither birth time. It is more likely the back home SSR that is at play - and I wonder if it is simply the 23.27 birth time that is more likely since it has no planets at all within 3° from local at home angles. Not an outstanding year at all.

My new SSR will occur tomorrow morning at home.
I will make a new comparison for both birth times.

[SteveS]

Arena, have you considered you may not be working with a correct birth time?
Arena, you may consider taking the main events in your life and try to see if Solar Arcs offers you an alternative birth time other the ones you are using. Solar Arcs are the main go to method for rectifying a birth time. Many months ago when I was working with you I noted a Solar Arc hit that computed an 11:40 birth time if my memory is serving me. I am no expert at rectifying a birth time, but if you can locate a trusted source you may consider investing in this approach to see what time is offered for your birth.

FWIW, with my life I have always placed much more faith in my “outstanding incident” return charts which came to me naturally instead of forcing an “outstanding incident” return chart by relocating. Let me try to explain: Back in early July my good friend in Gulf Shores called me and said he wanted to hook me-up with a business man who he thought we would share a lot of business things in common. I looked at my next July 17 SLR and noted if I relocated my July 17 SLR to Gulf Shores I would place my angles closer for a possible “outstanding incident” Moon-Jupiter SLR. So, I did relocate my SLR to Gulf Shores and had an “outstanding” meeting with this business man which has already paid dividends. Try to flow with the natural happenings within your immediate environment to choose if you want to relocate a return chart to pick-off an “outstanding incident” return chart, instead of forcing a relocation for an “outstanding incident” return chart. I can offer other examples but I think you know where I am coming from.

[Arena]

Yes I remember you checked for one single event... but we know it takes many events to rectify a birth time. Remember when I took the SSR for the year of my wedding? It was outstanding (partile angles) for 23.27 bt and not for 23.40.

I did not force anything with this last year's SSR. I was traveling with my family and it so happened that my SSR took place over there. But I do believe it is the back home SSR that is the active one for the time you stay at home. A lunar return can possibly turn out an outstanding incident while you stay in the relocation, as indeed your example indicates. The lunar return and the outstanding meeting happened in the relocation in your case.

Also, IF relocation charts work for returns, it shouldn't matter whether the individual happens to be there by chance or by a conscious decision. But I believe they only work while you stay there and no longer, exactly like relocating the natal chart. It works only for the time you stay at the relocation.

In my case it does seem that the 23.27 bt is very close and in this case the back home chart is out of orb for anything outstanding to happen, which was indeed the case. IF the 23.40 chart is precisely accurate, then this SSR would have been outstanding both at travel place and back home. Which wasn't the case.

[Jim Eshelman]

Arena, I think you and Steve are using different definitions of an "outstanding" return. You seem to be focusing on the precision of the angularity (which, of course, is important). Steve's working definitions have always given priority to partile aspects - primarily transit-transit and transit-natal - among foreground planets. From observation, it looks like he favors what I call a Class 2 orb, or about 7° from angles.

By Steve's definition - just so we understand what each other means by the same words - the "outstanding" aspects of your last SSR by Moon or involving foreground planets (11:40 PM birth, location Tenerife) are:

t Jupiter co r Moon 0°11' M
t Moon-Mars op 0°53' M

Or, if you exclude mundane aspects, then there were no "outstanding" markers anyway.

I know you said there wasn't the commercial success you wanted this year, so perhaps the Jupiter transit to natal Moon seems wrong to you; though I wonder how it seems paired with the Moon-Mars.

Back at home, the partile t/t and t/n aspects were a Moon-Neptune conjunction (0°46' M) and Moon conjunct natal Moon (0°15' M).

[Arena]

Well, what I've always seen or understood Steve (and you) talking about for "outstanding" charts is that there needs to be a t. planet partile the angles of the return or natal/rel. angles or the natal planets coming to a partile orb of the return angles. That makes it outstanding. I know Steve also focuses on when transiting planets in the return come into a partile orb of a natal planet, it can bring about noticable events/mood for that year. But when there are partile aspects in the return that do not come into partile orb of the angles it is not seen as "outstanding".

Let's ask Steve if that is indeed what he means or if he has a different definition.

[Arena]

I was not taking the background partile aspect of the Moon into the picture for measuring "outstanding". I was not expecting those aspects to be of any particular notice and they weren't. The year for me was not at all a vibe of Moon-Mars. I did not have any fights at all or any fall-out or any particular Martian mood at all, except I consciously decided to argue a little bit with a real estate agent yesterday because of what I would say is not quite honest. However, as I stated somewhere I do notice this year has had it's issues with perimenopause which bothers me. So it has to do with reproductive organs (Moon-Ma4s related).

What is of particular interest in the Tenerife SSR is the partile 0,03° Sun on the IC over there, although the vacationwas enjoyable for the most part. There was a slight fallout in the last couple of days before going home. So that partile Sun did not turn out to be of any importance for this year back home. And the back home return would also have had Sun partile minor angles - therefore I do think the 23.40 birth time is slightly off. It only takes a couple of minutes to get out of orb for these return charts.

[SteveS]

Arena said:

Let's ask Steve if that is indeed what he means or if he has a different definition.

Arena, the only definition I have for an "outstanding incident" return chart comes from Jim's exact words in his book "Interpting Solar Returns" Jim states:

It is when angularity and aspect partility coincide that outstanding incidents are most likely to come about.

If anyone has any questions about Jim's above quoted words please ask! I will try to elaborate:

I must see either a partile 0 90 180 preferably, or a 45-135 transiting aspect angular in a return chart, the closer to a main angle—the more potententely felt. For some reason in my life I see these involving partile conjunct the angles with partile aspects, why—I don’t know. But "angularity" has different orbs to different astrologers.

What I really like to see is an angular SSR/SLR planet involved with a partile 0 90 180 with a natal planet. The reason being is Jim teaches angular Natal Planets in a return chart with their natal aspects clues us in on how we will personally react to a situation, so make sure your Natal Planet is not malefically aspected in the Natal. I have an angular Jupiter and Fagan said you want to pay special attention to aspects with your Natal Jupiter including transiting Jupiter, angular hits of course are more special.

For example: My Natal Jupiter is angular in my Natal but it has a partile 120 to my Natal Mars which can burn a money hole in your pocket if not careful. So, back in the good ole days when I was relocating a-lot of my SLRs I would first run-out all the 0 90 180 partile aspects of t Venus to my Natal Jupiter to see if one of em happened on the day of my SLR. If I happened to find one, I would then start the relocation process to see if I could find a nice relocational location to put this aspect as close to the SLR angle as possible for great social recreational purposes (Ve-Jup). I would burn lots of $ traveling for my relocated SLRs because it was worth the fun I would catch. This may involve years before I found one—but when I found one it would go down on my reminder calendar for traveling purposes. I did this a-lot with t Moon 0 90 180 my Natal Jupiter for a possible exact day for a SLR, this offers 36 chances during a year’s time to possibly find one on the exact time/day of a SLR. I truly believe in Fagan’s statement it is very important to note the partile 0 90 180 aspects of any SLR planet to any Natal Planet regardless if angular or not!!!! Fagan said when this happens he has seen the manifestations last the whole period of a SLR, and I have proven to myself this is true when nothing else is angular in a SLR. So, the first thing you want to do is calculate when t SLR benefic planets are partile 0 90 180 a benefic Natal Planet on the day/time of a SLR. When found, then you can start a relocational process if you so choose to do so in order to get it angular. But, when you find these type SLRs naturally then you know with certainty that an “outstanding incident” is going to manifest relative to the normal going-ons in your immediate environment within the ‘fated’ realities of your Natal Planet. You get to take delight in your own stage play for an “outstanding incident” knowing the heavens are on your side for benefic action, just make sure you are not forcing anything beyond what is possible within your normal living environment, it is a must you understand this “normal living environment” situation. I can write about my “outstanding incident” SLRs but actually nothing will happen in an ‘outstanding’ nature to someone’s else eyes/mind, the “outstanding incident” is only seen/understood by the astrologer who is operating with their “outstanding incident” return charts, because it is only the individual astrologer who understands what is normal within their own living environments. What may be normal to one astrologer may not be normal to another. Another way of stating this: “Know your limitations!” You can’t get a movie star happenings if you are not a movie star, even then movie star happenings lot of times ends with tragedy. With SLRs/Demis you are only working with limited 27 or 13 day time windows. What you are actually trying to do is maximize a fun benefic period---then it’s back to the everyday boring living. Tracking “outstanding incident’ benefic SLRs allows you to become fully conscious in your own cosmic stage play, which really is no big deal to someone else when you are trying to put words to an “outstanding incident” SLR. I use to call my good friend Brock and say: let’s plan something fun because I have an outstanding incident fun SLR and you have a good SLR. He would say—but we always have fun when we get together. He didn’t understand the difference between more outstanding fun than normal fun, but I did on a personal level because I was versed in the language of astrology---anyway…..

[Arena]

Yes I see what you mean Steve - so we are actually looking at "outstanding" in the same manner - it really needs to be partile or very close to the return angles.

However, by using this criteria of partile 0, 90 180 to a natal planet and then relocate the chart where it comes close to an angle makes the criteria a bit wider than when only looking into home charts with partile aspects to angles. I will check these potential lucky vibes as well for the upcoming solar year. However, like yourself I only believe they are active while staying in the relocation and may be worth a fun time incident.

[SteveS]

Arena, Jim’s exact words for an “outstanding incident” return chart will not happen very often in a lifetime. But when they do and you are fully conscious of em, I truly believe you can bend the manifestations of em in a more favorable enjoyable manner. Never forget: You have to work with your few “outstanding incident” return charts in manner that you know for sure is within your normal reach. For example: If you got a letter or phone call from someone who wanted you to attend their trade show of paintings and noticed an “outstanding incident” benefic SLR location---you would know with high % your chances of selling more paintings would be higher than NORMAL. We know for sure it is within your normal living environment to paint and sell paintings but what we don’t know for sure if you will sell your paintings at an event. So, you naturally want to keep your eyes/ears open for the best locations with your SLRs. It’s just like in my latter years for buying and booking movies, I really didn’t know which of my movies would be great earners, but I could look at my SLRs and pretty much tell when I would bank lots of $ with my movies I had booked, particularly if it was holiday season. If you are not getting consistent results from your return charts, you have to consider you may be working with the wrong time for your Natal. You may want to consider giving Jim the time of the main events in your life---the ones that really affected you the most emotionally/psychologically and get him to first look at your Solar Arcs, then possibly your return charts. I would probably first start with your near partile 180 of your Venus-Jupiter; then your partile Moon-Mercury 90 to see how/if these 2 aspects tied in with Solar Arc directions with your angles and main events in your life. Then I would look at your progressed SSR Moons with their partile 0 90,180 aspects with solar and natal planets. Fagan used these for exact rectifications.

[Arena]

Steve, do you remember that it's been stated so many times that t. Mars can really help with rectification. Follow transits to angles.

I just stated that I was aggressively critical to a real estate agent yesterday and I got some anger vibes back from him. I just checked right now where t. Mars was yesterday. It was partile the rel. ASC for 23.27 birth time!

T. Mars has been pretty consistent invoking the angles for this alternative birth time. I will try to remember to keep following this. Next time it will hit my rel IC in late September.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'd always cited this (based on a Fagan suggestion) as Mars on a quotidian angle being the key.

For the 11:40 AM birth time, transiting Mars was exactly on SNQ Eastpoint (SQ Ascendant squared your natal Neptune.)

[Arena]

I'd always go for the most straight forward and simplest transit. We shouldn't have to look any further than simple transit to a birth chart or relicated angle. Makes much more sense.

[Jim Eshelman]

My point was that the original statement by Fagan (on which all the comments you likely have read here were based) was that this is a specific behavior of quotidians.

[Arena]

Ok. I see. I wonder if he also noted that we need to see it by transit to angles AND quotidians? So are both needed or just quotidians? If both, that still makes sense, but if only quotidians, then it simply doesn't make sense.

I wonder if it shows in quotidians for the 23.27 bt as well? Then that would mean a double whammy.

I also wonder of he would completely ignore the natal/relocated angles when it comes to Mars transits? Somehow, I don't believe he would.

I will see if Aug 10-12th will bring about any aggressive Mars mood/event for the other possible rel. Asc.