Friend's surprising SLR for bad meeting

[Mike V]

My best friend had a really brutal meeting with HR today, as the result of her trying to bring up issues (and improvements) with mismanagement that were affecting her and her teammates. They ended up pulling the rug out from under her and completely making it an intimidation, "stay in your lane" kind of meeting. It was an unmitigated loss and a total slap in the face not just for her hard work over many months, but also a backstab by other coworkers who had told her she was great to her face, and that she "made people comfortable," but behind her back reported that she was "aggressive" and "hurt feelings."

While her SLR is combative, it looks like a chart for a strong victory, not a resounding defeat. I'm very confused by this chart and am wondering if I'm misinterpreting something here.

Let me paint the full picture with other factors... but I am primarily asking about SLR interpretation.

April 12, 2024 - SSR
- T. Jupiter on Dsc 0°00’
- T. Moon on WP-a 0°39’
- R. Pluto on Asc -1°40’
- T. Uranus on Dsc -1°44’

(t. Pluto, r. Sun, t. Mercury background)

Foreground aspects
- T. Uranus opposing r. Pluto 0°04’ M
- T. Moon sq r. Saturn 0°15’ M
- T. Moon square r. Venus 0°56’ M
- T. Jupiter conjunct t. Uranus 1°33’
- T. Moon opposing r. Jupiter 1°59’ M
- T. Jupiter opposing r. Pluto 1°40’ M

Transit to Natal
- T. Saturn opposing r. Moon 0°03’ M
- T. Uranus opposing r. Pluto 0°04’ M
- T. Mars square r. Jupiter 0°07’
- T. Mercury conjunct r. Sun 0°22’ (in acute background)
- T. Mars opposing r. Moon 0°24’
- T. Saturn square r. Jupiter 0°46’

She traveled for this to get Jupiter on an angle and to avoid having that Saturn transit to Jupiter on angles if she had stayed home.
While there are harsh indicators, like Saturn to natal Moon and Solar Moon square natal Saturn, there are many other influences to balance this out - and Jupiter exactly on Descendant must count for a lot.

8/7/24 - SLR
- t. Mars As +1°01'
- t. Jupiter As -1°40'
- r. Jupiter Ds -1°53'
- r. Mars IC +2°09'
- r. Pluto Ds -3°45'
- t. Sun IC +4°19'
- t./r. Moon N 2°05'

- t. Jupiter op r. Jupiter 0°07'
- t. Sun co r. Mars 0°23'
- r. Moon sq r. Jupiter 0°31' (i.e. natal ecliptical aspect on angles)
- t. Jupiter sq r. Moon 0°38'
- t. Mars sq r. Mars 1°08' M
- r. Jupiter co r. Pluto 1°52' M (no ecliptical aspect in natal)
- t. Jupiter op r. Pluto 2°04' M
- t. Mars co t. Jupiter 2°42' M
- t. Mars op r. Jupiter 2°54' M

Other partile:
- t. Saturn co r. Venus 0°13' M (part of her Saturn Return, to natal Venus-Saturn conjunction)
- t. Pluto co r. Uranus 0°09'
- r. Sun co r. Mercury 0°09' M

While it's fiery, combative, and confrontational, it sure looks like it ends up being a victory to me. This is the kind of chart that, had Trump had it for a court date or a major election date, it would sure seem to me like a victory for him. (I do see that the Jupiter symbolism may reflect HR involvement, almost like "employer court." But it still seems like a hard-fought victory.) It looks much more like dignity than indignity, when the event itself was very embarrassing and humiliating.
I do not think that this will end up unfolding into "victory" at her job - they were very clear that she needs to sit down and shut up, and her manager is totally powerless, having been himself beaten into submission already by these kinds of political factors.

Transits at the time of the event
- t. Jupiter oc s. Pluto 00'
- p. Venus tr p. Mars 09'
- p. Moon tr p. Mercury 14'
- t. Pluto oc r. Jupiter 17'
- t. Pluto co r. Uranus 21'
- t. Pluto oc s. Mars 23'
- p. Moon sx p. Jupiter 24'
- t. Pluto oc s. Saturn 29'
- t. Venus op s. Saturn 35'
- p. Mercury op p. Jupiter 38'
- t. Saturn oc s. Pluto 39'
- t. Pluto oc r. Moon 47'
- t. Uranus oc p. Moon 49'
- t. Jupiter sq r. Moon 54'
- t. Mars sq r. Venus 56'

I see that there's more Jupiter-Pluto symbolism here as well.

Quotidians (including the experimental QSSR)
- snq As co r. Jupiter 0°11'
- snq As sq r. Moon 0°20'
- SQ As co r. Mercury 0°32'
- SQ As co SQ Mercury 0°49'
- SQ MC sq SQ Venus 1°04'
- p QSSR As sq r. Mars 1°07'
- snq Ds co t. Jupiter 1°14'
- snq As sq t. Venus 1°22'
- SQ As co r. Sun 1°27'
- p QSSR As sq p Mercury 1°51'
- snq As sq t. Saturn 1°53'

I am not impressed by these.

Conclusions
The only conclusion I can come to about this are that there is some sort of "gain by separation" that has yet to manifest: that she either mentally (and/or legally) decouples from this job and frees up resources, ultimately coming out ahead. I see all of the conflict and whatnot playing out pretty clearly.
She is also right in the middle of her Saturn Return. This may be a harsh lesson about trying to fight others' battles and ending up paying for that audacity. But even still... the SLR looks much more uplifting than this lesson suggests.

[Jim Eshelman]

This isn't someone I've known for 30 years, is it? Someone who moved not long ago to a very barren place? (If not, then the stories are strangely similar.)

I agree: I would not have expected this from that lunar. Maybe boisterous engagement etc., maybe some heavy-handedness, but not this. My first thought is that the month isn't over yet (not even half over)... we don't know how this is going to finish. One would expect her to land well and she might do it fast. (Jupiter opposite natal Jupiter is primarily a time of reassessing and redirecting one's Jupiter path.) The multiple forms of Mars-Jupiter might make this expensive, but not even necessarily that given other signs of prospering.

The transits tell the story far better (so far) than the lunar, except for that clear Jupiter transit to natal Moon. (There's a LOT of Pluto, and the distinctive aspect of the day was Venus opposite solar Saturn.)

t Pluto to natal Uranus (and secondarily to Moon, Mars, Jupiter, and Uranus - a lot of Pluto!)
(t Uranus in minor aspect to progressed Moon)
(t Saturn in minor aspect to solar Pluto)

[Mike V]

This isn't someone I've known for 30 years, is it? Someone who moved not long ago to a very barren place? (If not, then the stories are strangely similar.)

Nope, she is not even turning 30 until next year

Glad I'm not crazy with the interpretation. Yeah, you're right that the month has only just begun... I just got totally surprised when I checked this Lunar before her meeting and was like, nah it'll be fine! And then it very much wasn't.

I'll update if I end up knowing what this looks like in another 1-3 weeks.

Her upcoming Demi-SLR in 4 days is very complicated; it's a wild mix of Moon-Venus-Jupiter-Saturn, including the Saturn Return per se on chart angles (though it's ecliptically not back in 1° orb yet for its 3rd pass):

Code: Select all

Mo 21Aq 1'22"  1S52 +14°58' 347°57'  7S12  98°51' - 1° 5' 359°50'   1° 5' 100% A 
Su  3Le23' 0"  0S 0 +57'45" 150°37' 12N 0 294°20' - 7°38' 183°10' 171°37'  83% D 
Me 29Cn53'43"  4S11 -47'34" 145°51'  9N15 295°58' -12°50' 185°42' 165°47'  54%   
Ve 24Le28' 0"  1N19 + 1°14' 170°55'  5N21 275°28' + 1°58' 179°49' 181°59'  99% D 
Ma 25Ta42'36"  0S17 +38'18"  80° 0' 22N50   3°14' -24° 7' 204° 5'  82°49'  87% I 
Ju 22Ta31'58"  0S42 + 8'27"  76°37' 22N10   6°43' -24°34' 204°25'  75°39' 100% N 
Sa 22Aq17'43"  2S10 - 4'12" 349°14'  6S59  97°48' - 1°52' 359°45'   1°53'  99% A 
Ur  2Ta 6'56"  0S16 + 0'35"  54°59' 19N17  28°54' -22°33' 199°58'  40°39'  43%   
Ne  4Pi14'10"  1S19 - 1'22" 359°54'  1S29  86°30' - 5°54' 180°22'   5°55'  92% A 
Pl  5Cp 8'18"  3S15 - 1'13" 303°10' 23S17 142°31' +14°13'  11°22' 337°24'  14%  b
Er  0Ar19'53" 10S53 - 0'18"  27°30'  0S19  65°18' -24°35' 190°50'  26°44'  50%   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Radical Planets                                 
Mo 21Le 1'22"  4S 3 +13°42' 165°39'  1N45 276°27' - 4°19' 180°29' 175°39'  95% D 
Su 27Pi40'22"  0S 0 +58'49"  21° 3'  8N51  63°57' -13°27' 186° 0'  14°55'  67%   
Me 25Pi41'48"  0S59 + 2° 4'  19°34'  7N12  66°12' -13°42' 185°37'  14°55'  67%   
Ve 23Aq57' 4"  1S16 + 1°12' 350°25'  5S31  95°56' - 1°43' 359°49'   1°44'  99% A 
Ma 20Cn30'56"  2N42 +12' 7" 138°54' 18N44 307°26' - 9°52' 186° 2' 167°38'  64%   
Ju 20Sc30'35"  0N50 - 2' 5" 254°27' 21S50 188°56' +24°41'  24°25' 251°19'  87% Z 
Sa 24Aq47'53"  1S49 + 6'35" 351°25'  5S41  95°22' - 2°34' 359°46'   2°35'  98% A 
Ur  5Cp35' 2"  0S32 + 1' 8" 303° 0' 20S31 141°16' +16°42'  13°10' 334°23'   5%  b
Ne  0Cp48'34"  0N33 + 0'30" 297°46' 20S26 145°46' +19° 4'  15°57' 328°26'   1%  b
Pl  5Sc30'14" 13N54 - 1'12" 241°19'  6S40 207°26' +36°31'  33°19' 238° 7'   1%  b
Er 23Pi26'50" 16S18 + 0'40"  23°17'  7S49  74°26' -27° 8' 187°50'  28° 0'  50%   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects                       
tMo op tVe  0°53' 98% M               
tMo sq tJu  1°31' 96%                     
tMo co tSa  0°48' 99% M                  
tSu sq tMa  1°12' 97% M                   
tVe sq tMa  1°15' 97%                 
tVe sq tJu  1°56' 93%                
tVe op tSa  0° 6'100% M                     
tJu sq tSa  0°14'100%                                                   
----------------------                                                  
tMo co rVe  0°39' 99% M                                                 
tMo sq rJu  0°31' 99%                                                   
tMo co rSa  1°29' 96% M                                                 
tVe op rVe  0°15'100% M                                                 
tVe op rSa  0°20'100%                                                   
tMa sq rMo  2°50' 85% M                                                 
tMa sq rVe  1°46' 94%                                                   
tMa sq rSa  0°55' 98%                                                   
tJu sq rMo  1°31' 96%                                                   
tJu sq rVe  1°25' 96%                                                   
tJu op rJu  2° 1' 92%                                                   
tJu sq rSa  2°16' 90%                                                   
tSa op rMo  1°16' 97%                                                   
tSa co rVe  0° 9'100% M                                                 
tSa sq rJu  1°47' 94%                                                   
tSa co rSa  0°42' 99% M                                                 
----------------------                                                                                                                                          
rVe co rSa  0°51' 99% M  

It looks like a really great party that gets spoiled... or maybe a celebration and concretization of whatever the most currently obvious themes of the Saturn Return are.

[Veronica]

I'm assuming she is not a member of a union and that was why she attended a HR meeting alone? I was instructed by my supervisor back in the 90s to never attend a meeting with HR with out my union representative present.

I learned something very interesting to me when I was weeding out the college collection of materials used for teaching managers and human resources professionals.....the methodology taught for this occupation is similar to trends in pop psychology, it is constantly changing style and manner in how managers are taught to think of people. A person trained to be HR or talent manager in the 70s for example was actually encouraged to seek out Adult Children of Alcoholics for hire because they are notoriously hard workers for example, whilst a person trained for management in the 90s were taught TQM style highlighting diversity.
I share this because I feel it is helpful for me to keep in mind that while it might have been useful in the 70s to understand ACOA work ethic, we keep learning and incorporating new knowledge about ourselves and the world.
Your friend must have been devastated to hear the negative feedback of aggressive and hurt feelings. I was in that situation myself, when I thought I was liked at my job only to have a sudden surprise meeting with people outside of my team, not HR and I had no one on my side as I was attacked (a personal attack not a job performance attack). I walked away, even though I definitely could have called my union and probably sued the school district for emotional battery and bullying.
The idea of staying in ones lane is a branch of the outdated concept of minding your own business, ignore others bad behavior, focus on yourself, and keep your mouth shut. As we see in our homes, communities, countries and globe this silence, and passivity only allows bad choices to keep on keeping on and perpetuate the worst behaviors (rewarding them even) and chips away at our attempts at manifesting our best behaviors.
I'm grateful she has a kind friend like you to vent to and explore possibilities to bring this yucky moment to a better place in her mind and heart. She did the right thing by sharing her thoughts, and from their nasty reaction I'm thinking they were very well abreasted of the situation before she shared and that put them in an uncomfortable and awkward spot. I hope this moment does not forever jade her into not speaking from her heart and sharing her mind, the world needs more honest caring people with integrity, which she has in spades. She will be seen as an aggressive person who hurts feelings by some simply due to the wonderful world of astrological aspects and synastry between people, it cannot be avoided. I am sure for example that I have said somethings that hurt others but that was never my intention with my comment, just as I know my feelings have been hurt by others who had no idea what they said hurt me as it was not their intention. That's where I am gifted with an opportunity to self examine my feelings and motivations and ask myself hard questions like why did that make you cry, what exactly was my thought process that triggered that feeling and is my perception true and real or is it based on falsity fear anger or ego.

[Mike V]

I'm assuming she is not a member of a union and that was why she attended a HR meeting alone? I was instructed by my supervisor back in the 90s to never attend a meeting with HR with out my union representative present.

You're correct, she is not a member of a union. I'm not aware of any serious union presence for software engineers in the US; I'm not sure why that is. My best guess is that devs have always been in such high demand, and the normal trajectory for a developer involves so many employer changes, that it essentially didn't matter up until now.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I'll pass those on to her.

I hope this moment does not forever jade her into not speaking from her heart and sharing her mind, the world needs more honest caring people with integrity, which she has in spades.

I don't think it will jade her... but there is a valid lesson in this, even on the surface: to paraphrase what she told me, she can't expect to go around being a champion for people and expecting them to back her up. Part of what happened, in essence, is that she tried to stand up to a bully, but when her teammates were questioned about whether or not the bully is actually a bully... they succumbed to cowardice and threw her under the bus instead. "We all agree there's a problem here" turned into "uh, problem? Oh no, I don't have a problem with how I'm being treated, I'm not sure what she's talking about..."
She is braver than most people... but, of course, that means that most people are not as brave as she is, and she can't rely on them to be.