As forum visitors might have noticed, I have a particular interest in the horoscopes of U.S. Presidents. It's a great data base! We have abundant historic information, and the set is sufficiently diverse to show quite a range of behavior.
I've observed that there is a significant difference between the operation of the horoscope of the man (they've all been men thus far) before he became President, and while President. The office absorbs the horoscope into a nearly archetypal level. The President's horoscope becomes the de facto horoscope of the nation for a time - or, at least, it shows the patterns that the nation is enacting during that individual's Presidency, and often seems far more responsive to transits for national events than the national horoscope itself.
The king and the land are one.
Several Presidents strikingly support this premise that Presidents' horoscope becomes something larger during the years they are in office. Look at the lives vs. Presidencies of John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, and William McKinley, just for starters - but there are more! I'm sure there's a book in here somewhere
As part of seeing the presidential horoscopes this way, I see the procession of Presidents as a continuing ritual enactment, with the Presidents as ritual officers; or as a symphony with the individual Presidents representing specific musical movements; or as a dance where each President is the next pattern of steps. Therefore, it should not have been a surprise when I discovered that there are patterns flowing from President to President expressed in their Sun and Moon signs primarily, which either match or the reverse patterns of their predecessors as if marking step and spin in a dance (or point and counterpoint in music, or dramatic tension in a ritual or play) with occasional pauses for movement change or redirection in the series.
What does this mean In concrete terms? In a nearly every case, a new President will have the Sun or Moon either in the same sign as his predecessor or, more commonly, the reverse. Even more frequently, it will skip a generation (skip an administration), cycling back to the immediately prior pattern. This "inheritance" crosses party lines as if they don't exist.
This becomes nearly perfect if a vice president who inherits the office by the death or resignation of his predecessor is regarded as the same unit, e.g., the McKinley-Roosevelt administration treated as a single thing.
This mathematical measurement of "inheritance" or successorship, by itself, makes a striking case for astrology.
In the summaries below, sign pairs (e.g., Aquarius-Sagittarius) are the Sidereal Sun-Moon sign pair (in that order). A third sign in parentheses indicates a stellium in that sign.
GEORGE WASHINGTON Aquarius-Sagittarius.
There have been only two Aquarius Sun Presidents, and these have been of gargantuan stature outside all others: Washington and Lincoln. There have been no Sidereal Aquarius Moons. Sagittarius Moons are the most common of all Presidents to date, though none have occurred after the 19th Century and only one since the Civil War. In any case, Washington is the first movement of the dance, the first theme of the ritual, and stands aside from the rest of the flow, outside the pattern.
JOHN ADAMS Libra-Pisces THOMAS JEFFERSON Aries-Sagittarius
The first six Presidents were a distribution of the Virginia and Massachusetts giants among the "Founding Fathers." As the nation began the "taking turns" trade-offs between the northerners and southerners, Adams and Jefferson set off the pattern with a Libra-Aries polarity. Jefferson also continued Washington's Sagittarius Moon.
JAMES MADISON Pisces-Scorpio
Madison "inherited" Adams' Pisces as a Sun-sign.
JAMES MONROE Aries-Sagittarius
A true heir of other Virginian giants preceding him, Monroe replicates Jefferson's Sun-Moon pair.
JOHN QUINCY ADAMS Gemini-Sagittarius
Retained Monroe's Sagittarius Moon.
ANDREW JACKSON Pisces-Leo
A different kind of switcheroo, irregular to the pattern: Adams and Jackson were ferocious rivals. Adams' Sun and Moon in opposing Gemini-Sagittarius already form an opposition that flips 90° (the closest an opposition can come to "opposite sign") to Jackson's Pisces Sun. Jackson had won a plurality in both the Electoral College and the popular vote the first time but lost to Adams in the House of Representatives vote; otherwise, he would have been heir to Madison's Pisces Sun.
MARTIN VAN BUREN Scorpio-Sagittarius
Inherited the Sagittarius Moon of the prior generations (primarily from Adams).
WILLIAM HENRY HARRISON Capricorn-Leo (+ Capricorn)
"Old Tippecanoe" inherited Jackson's Leo Moon. He was the first of four Capricorn presidents (all of whom died in office except Reagan, who nearly died) and the second of six Leo Moons.
JOHN TYLER Pisces-Virgo
Elected at the same time as Harrison (but as vice president), he inherited Jackson's Pisces Sun as Harrison had elected Jackson's Leo Moon.
JAMES K. POLK Libra-Cancer
Cancer Moon pulls from Harrison's Capricorn Sun.
ZACHARY TAYLOR Scorpio-Aries
Polk's Libra Sun flipped to Taylor's Aries Moon. (More broadly, Polk's soft, gentlemanly Libra-Cancer tone flipped to the manly, aggressive double-Mars of Taylor's Scorpio-Aries.)
MILLARD FILLMORE Sagittarius-Taurus
Taylor's Scorpio Sun flipped to Fillmore's Taurus Moon. (Fillmore was Taylor's vice president.)
FRANKLIN PIERCE Scorpio-Leo
Inherited Taylor's Scorpio Sun (simultaneously flipping back from Fillmore's Taurus Moon).
JAMES BUCHANAN Aries-Sagittarius
Inherited Fillmore's Sagittarius Sun as a Moon-sign.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN Aquarius-Capricorn
Flipped Pierce's Leo Moon to an Aquarius Sun. (In this symphony of the presidency, Lincoln stood outside the pack like Washington, a musical Prelude to Act II. In other respects, he simply continued the dance.)
ANDREW JOHNSON Sagittarius-Taurus
Inherited Buchanan's Sagittarius Moon as his Sun sign. More broadly, Johnson continued the Sagittarius and Taurus-Scorpio themes of the four prior non-Lincoln Presidents.
U.S. GRANT Aries-Cancer (+ Pisces)
His Cancer Moon flipped Lincoln's Capricorn Moon.
RUTHERFORD B. HAYES Virgo-Taurus
Flips Grant's Pisces stellium and inherits Johnson's Taurus Moon. (As America's first Virgo President, he is known best for starting the overhaul of the Civil Service system.)
JAMES A. GARFIELD Scorpio-Aries
Inherited Grant's Aries Sun as an Aries Moon and flipped Hayes' Taurus Moon to a Scorpio Sun. (As would happen to Jimmy Carter a century later, the nation responded to "too nice, too moderate" Hayes with an Aries Moon successor.)
CHESTER A. ARTHUR Virgo-Sagittarius
Garfield's Vice President inherited Hayes' Virgo Sun.
GROVER CLEVELAND Pisces-Cancer
Arthur's (and, indirectly, Hayes') Virgo Sun flipped to Pisces.
BENJAMIN HARRISON Leo-Libra
His Libra Moon flipped the Aries Moon of Garfield (the second elected president before him). It's worth noting that he lost the popular vote but won the Electoral College.
GROVER CLEVELAND Pisces-Cancer
Cleveland inherited the pattern from himself! (This time, though, he had to face the Panic of 1893.) Note that the second worst financial devastation in U.S. history occurred on the watch of a Cancer Moon partile square Saturn (compare to Hoover later) and that the nation's response was to elect a Capricorn to follow him.
WILLIAM McKINLEY Capricorn-Capricorn (+ Capricorn)
Cleveland's Cancer Moon flipped to a double Capricorn (and a Capricorn stellium).
THEODORE ROOSEVELT Libra-Gemini
Elected at the same time as McKinley (but as vice president), he inherited Harrison's Libra Moon as his Libra Sun.
WILLIAM HOWARD TAFT Virgo-Leo
Taft's Virgo Sun flips Cleveland's Pisces (but only continues the pattern if Roosevelt, who inherited the presidency initially, is treated as part of the McKinley-Roosevelt unit).
WOODROW WILSON Sagittarius-Capricorn
Flipped Roosevelt's Gemini Moon to a Sagittarius Sun and repeated-restored McKinley's Capricorn Moon (inherited from the full McKinley-Roosevelt administration).
WARREN G. HARDING Libra-Aries (+ Libra)
Harding was nearly as much a dumb note astrologically as he was in the presidency. His closest "inheritance" link is the reach back three steps to Roosevelt for the Libra Sun. (Technically a miss.)
CALVIN COOLIDGE Gemini-Gemini (+ Gemini)
Initially elected his Harding's vice president, he flipped Wilson's Sagittarius Sun with his "common man" Gemini luminaries.
HERBERT HOOVER Cancer-Cancer (+ Cancer)
While Cancer stellium and double luminaries succeeded Coolidge's Gemini stellium and double luminaries, his Cancer was a flip of Wilson's Capricorn Moon (treating the Harding-Coolidge administration as one). - Like had happened with Cleveland, the worst financial devastation in our history occurred on the watch of a Cancer Moon opposite Saturn... and the nation's response was to elect a Capricorn to follow.
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT Capricorn-Gemini
Capricorn Sun flips Hoover's Cancer, and he inherited Coolidge's Gemini Moon. (Good example here: People wanted things to go back to as good as they were in Coolidge's time.)
HARRY S TRUMAN Aries-Libra
Roosevelt represented the largest chorus in the opera of our nation's history. After him, his Vice President started a new pattern quite suited to the needs of the new time: a new act in the nation's dramatic opera begins. (I think this should be treated as a clean break but must mention that if Roosevelt-Truman and Harding-Coolidge are treated as units, Aries-Libra Truman is only two steps after Libra-Aries Harding.)
DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER Virgo-Libra
Inherited Truman's Libra Moon.
JOHN F. KENNEDY Taurus-Leo (+Aries)
Aries stellium inherited Truman's Aries Sun and flipped the Truman and Roosevelt Libra Moons. At the same time, Kennedy's Aries stellium started a strong three-president "imperial" pattern. (Kennedy's Aries cluster included Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter.)
LYNDON B. JOHNSON Leo-Leo (+ Leo)
Kennedy's Vice President shared his Leo Moon. In addition to his double Leo luminaries, Johnson had a Leo stellium that included Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter, the second of three "imperial presidencies."
RICHARD M. NIXON Sagittarius-Capricorn (+ Sagittarius)
Nixon's Sagittarius stellium included... Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter. Thus, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon moved the same stellium around the three imperial signs Aries - Leo - Sagittarius.
GERALD FORD Gemini-Scorpio
Sagittarius reversed to Gemini. The imperial Sagittarian was replaced by the "common man" Gemini just when the nation required it.
JIMMY CARTER Virgo-Libra
Understanding Kennedy-Johnson and Nixon-Ford as joined administrations, Carter's Libra Moon flips Kennedy's Aries stellium, while extending the continuity deeper (replicating Eisenhower's Virgo-Libra and the Truman-Eisenhower Libra Moons).
RONALD REAGAN Capricorn-Aries
For the second time, the nation replaced a "too nice" Virgo (with a Venus-ruled Moon) by an Aries Moon successor. In this case, Libra-to-Aries was the key "inheritance" flip at a time that the nation wanted more strength-themed military and executive assertion. - Regarding Nixon-Ford as a single administration, Reagan's Capricorn Sun inherits from Nixon's Capricorn Moon.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH Taurus-Virgo
The Virgo Moon inherits Carter's Sun-sign. Notice also (in contrast to the "Fire" stellium of the Imperial Trio) that the Sun constellations now have cycled through the "Earth" signs in the order Virgo, Capricorn, Taurus.
BILL CLINTON Leo-Aries (+ Virgo)
He inherited Reagan's Aries Moon, while his Virgo stellium continued Bush's Virgo theme.
GEORGE W. BUSH Gemini-Virgo (+ Cancer)
He inherited his father's Virgo Moon (same as Clinton's Virgo stellium).
BARACK OBAMA Cancer-Taurus (+ Cancer)
His Cancer Sun inherited and continued Bush's Cancer stellium.
DONALD TRUMP Taurus-Scorpio
His luminaries picked up Obama's Taurus Moon.
JOSEPH BIDEN Scorpio-Aries
His Sun matched Trump's Moon and opposed Trump's Sun and Obama's Moon.
Based on Trump & Biden, the 47th U.S. President will have a luminary in Sidereal Taurus-Scorpio or Libra-Aries.
Deneb wrote:The only thing I have ever thought about U.S presidents, is that the most successful presidents are those born under Rim constellations. This is just a picture of my own imagination. A nation like USA needs a president who has leading ability and is capable of "rolling the wheel" like Rim constellations do always have. Reagan and F. Roosevelt are good examples of that.
Yes, the most Presidents have had Aries Suns, but only 14 of 42 Presidents (33% - exactly average!) have had Rim Suns. (12 have had Hub Suns, 16 have had Spoke Suns.) And, if you are talking about "greats" among the Rims (you forgot Jefferson, McKinley, and Teddy Roosevelt), you probably should also consider the massively failed Presidencies of Grant, Harding, and the senior Harrison.
Against this, though two of the Hub signs have only two Presidents each, and the total number is slightly less than the other sign types, among Hubs we have a comparable number of "greatest" Presidents, including no less than Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy, and Clinton.
You also haven't considered the Moons, and that's really where Rims are numerous! There have been 18 Rim Moon Presidents - 43% of the total - and even the worst have usually been noted for executive skills. There have been some clinkers - the massively failed Presidency of Grant, the weakness seen in Carter, and the economic disasters that trailed Hoover in particular. But you also find Lincoln, McKinley, Truman, Reagan, and Clinton, for example.
Hub Moons only show 10 (24%) and four of them came to the office initially by inheritance rather than direct election; so Americans have not tended to elect Hub Moon Presidents (and only reelected one). But among those relatively few we find such greats as Jefferson, Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson.
Finally, there have been 14 Spoke Moons - quite average (as have been most of the Spoke Moon Presidents, particularly if you strip out the early Sagittarius Moon examples). But even here we find Washington and both Roosevelts.
Sidereal Bob wrote:Happy New Year Sidereal Advocates; Found the Presidents analysis very interesting, and hope to study further the correspondences born out by the research. My clairvoyance tells me Hillary Clinton will be our next president, but I'm in need of a valid, or speculative good source suggested birthtime. I believe her Pisces natal (D*?) Moon could fall into the pattern Jim was demonstrating. Likewise, Political Astrology by axiom calls an election to go to Jupiter transiting the Candidates Moon; Showing popularity with the Public by Vote for the Candidate. My hunch is that some of the candidates may fall close, but not enough to personify Real Change, like the First Woman US President in History. Birthtime submittals send to: katarche@ Yahoo.com -Thank You. May all our advocates & colleagues Live long & Prosper. Lux, Sidereal Bob
I had mentioned before (here? elsewhere?) that Hillary did not fit this pattern as a successor to Obama. It was a disturbance in the back of my mind for the last year or so. His successor would need to have a Taurus-Scorpio luminary, or Cancer-Capricorn (or, absent that, spoke luminaries as "grandchild" of W).
As we now know, his successor will, indeed, have Taurus-Scorpio luminaries. The pattern continues to hold up.
Presuming Trump finishes his term, the next President will need a Taurus or Scorpio luminary to fulfill this pattern OR (there are a couple of precedents) be a Leo-Aquarius to exactly polarize. Of the examples you gave, Kaine is the only one that fits, and I don't think he's competitive.
My theory (way to early to have a theory about this, I know) is that Warren start in two years to run... as Vice President! She'll be too old to go for Pres, and doesn't really want it; and the voter trends are moving (ugh!) to wanting someone new, fresh, not yet deep in the system. She should actively run as a senior mentor - the Biden model - and pledge to be in the room and in the conversation for some (perhaps thus far unknown) hot, charismatic, bright fresh face, necessarily male and almost certainly a little more centrist than she is.
PS - If Pence has already replaced Trump, we add Gemini-Sagittarius for his Moon, and there is still nobody that fits from your list. The good news: Double Capricorn Paul Ryan also does not fit!
Jim Eshelman wrote:Of the examples you gave, Kaine is the only one that fits, and I don't think he's competitive.
Are you speaking astrologically or practically when you say you don't think he's competitive? I sort of agree practically, but it is interesting astrologically, considering the only two aquarians have been Washington and Lincoln, and we'll be in desperate need of someone of that stature if we make it through 4 years of Trump.
Here are a few more:
5. Amy Klobuchar
Taurus-Tuarus
May 25, 1960 Plymouth, MN
6. Kirsten Gillibrand
Scorpio-Libra
December 9, 1966 Albany, NY
7. John Hickenlooper
Capricorn-Gemini
February 7, 1952 5AM, Narberth, PA
8. Kamala Harris
Libra-Pisces or possibly Libra-Aries, depending on birth time
October 20, 1964 Oakland, CA
9. Tammy Duckworth
Aquarius-Cancer or possibly Aquarius-Leo, depending on birth time
March 12, 1968 Bangkok, Thailand
10. Sherrod Brown
Libra-Cancer
November 9, 1952, Mansfield, OH
11. Tammy Baldwin
Aquarius-Aries or Aquarius-Taurus, depending on birth time.
February 11, 1962 Madison, WI
12. Tulsi Gabbard
Aries-Cancer
April 12, 1981, Leloaloa, American Samoa
So, according to the dance of the constellations, assuming Trump finishes his term, the potential candidates from the list so far are numbers 3, 5, 6, and possibly 11 (depending on birth time).
And in your Pence scenario, number 7 is the only one that fits.
Jim Eshelman wrote:Of the examples you gave, Kaine is the only one that fits, and I don't think he's competitive.
Are you speaking astrologically or practically when you say you don't think he's competitive?
Practically. If I didn't have direct knowledge to the contrary, I'd have thought Clinton's selection of him meant she wasn't serious about running, and nothing I saw in the campaign said otherwise. Then when you think of putting him up against Trump, it seems like putting a marshmallow bunny in front of a bulldozer driven by a crazy man.
Of the others, the "dance of the constellations" astrological profile is fit by Amy Klobuchar and Kirsten Gillibrand. If Pence is president, then Hickenlooper is within possibility.
And in your Pence scenario, number 7 is the only one that fits. Correct?
Pence is a Taurus Sun, so the Taurus-Scorpio luminaries all keep working.
According to this model, the next President will have a luminary in Taurus-Scorpio or Cancer-Capricorn. Of the five current front-runners, we find:
BIDEN (Scorpio-Aries, A Data): Qualified. WARREN (Gemini-Aries, C Data): Not qualified. SANDERS (Leo-Pisces, C Data): Not qualified. HARRIS (Libra-Aries, AA Data): Not qualified. BUTTIGIEG (Capricorn-Scorpio, A Data): Qualified (doubly).
Biden and Buttigieg are not an obvious pair on the surface. They are the two most moderate of the five front-runners and therefore do not have reach across the political spectrum. Their one political advantage I see, were they to team, is that it is one way for Biden to show clear diversity support. (He doesn't need to do it cross-racially, he already has stronger Black support than Harris and Booker combined.) Astrologically, though, there is the unmissable 1°28' conjunction of Joe's Sun and Pete's Moon - and this conjunction squares Trump's Mars! Somehow (not evident on the surface), the pair seems to express an enormous amount of Uranus, since their Uranuses are 0°15' apart and within a degree of Biden's Ascendant! Their two-way Jupiter-Pluto interchanges (partile and near-partile) are also interesting. They both of Venus conjunct Sun on an angle, meaning they both express a similar kind of genuinely nice person - at least a sharp contrast to Trump's Mars rising, though I don't know if that's an advantage or disadvantage.
Besides, in a VP debate face-off with Pence, Buttigieg would make Pence sooooo uncomfortable.
I was curious how useful and reliable this model might be in picking - just from natal luminary and stellium signs! - the winners of a given presidential race. I find that sometimes both candidates qualified but sometimes only one.
Taking all 18 contests of the "modern presidency" (Truman forward), I found the following:
We already know, of course, that the winners in every case matched the formula. The question is how often we could have detected the losers.
Five races would have been easy by this formula because the loser didn't qualify at all:
Truman v. Dewey. Pisces-Virgo Thomas Dewey had no overlap with Truman or Roosevelt. Kennedy v. Nixon. Nixon was not a suitable successor to Eisenhower. Sagittarius-Capricorn Nixon had no inheritance from Eisenhower or Truman. Regan v. Mondale. Mondale was not a suitable successor to Carter. Sagittarius-Taurus Mondale had no inheritance from Reagan or Carter. Bush v. Kerry. Scorpio-Taurus-Taurus John Kerry had no inheritance from Bush or Clinton. Trump v. Clinton. Hillary Clinton was not an astrological successor to Obama. Libra-Aquarius Clinton had no inheritance from Obama or Bush.
The others had contestants who both qualified under this formula. Two are especially interesting because the candidates shared common or opposite luminary signs and, in all cases, Sun won out over Moon.
Bush v. Dukakis. Bush's Taurus Sun overpowered Dukakis' Taurus Moon. They were an interesting flip: Bush "qualified" by his Virgo Moon matching Carter's Virgo Sun. Dukakis qualified by his Libra Moon being a flip of Reagan's Aries Moon.
Obama v. McCain. Obama's Cancer Sun overpowered McCain' Capricorn Moon. Again, they "qualified" partly in a party flip: Obama's Cancer Sun matched Bush's Cancer stellium. McCain's Capricorn Moon opposed that (and might have helped him be the "fiscal manager" the Bush administration left behind) and his Leo Sun copied Clinton's.
Bush v. Gore. Here, each had Moon-sign opposite the other's Sun-sign and it was as close to a perfect tie as we've had in modern times. Bush, though, was a purer successor than Gore by a small bit (and things had been so good under Cancer that this was the better gambit). Bush's Virgo Moon inherited his father's Virgo Moon an Clinton's Virgo stellium. Gore hit those too, but with a Pisces Sun that represented a flip - and people weren't so intent on a flip.
For all the rest, both candidates "qualified" under the current formula. There was nothing obvious to distinguish them except the choices voters as a whole wanted to make that year, especially in terms of "staying the course" or "reversing the course."
Eisenhower vs. Stevenson (twice). Stevenson had double the qualification, which goes to show that more points don't mean more likely to win. Ike had Truman's Libra Moon. Stevenson had the opposite, Aries (Truman's Sun ), plus shared Roosevelt's Capricorn Sun.
Johnson vs. Goldwater. Sagittarius-Aries Goldwater's Aries Moon copied one prevailing thread: His Aries Moon matched JFK's Aries stellium, flipped Ike's Libra Moon, etc. Johnson, of course matched himself. It may have been as simple as America didn't want an Aries theme repeated in 1964 as we were already getting deeper into war.
Nixon v, Humphrey. Nixon continued the "Imperial Presidency markers of Kennedy and Johnson. Humphrey had JFK's Taurus Sun. Either could have won, in astrological theory.
Nixon v. McGovern. McGovern's Cancer Sun flipped Nixon's Capricorn Moon. If they had been in the slightest equal candidates, McGovern's Sun probably would have overpowered Nixon's Moon; but it did not.
' Bush v. Clinton. Clinton (among other things) had Reagan's Aries Moon. He was a better "Reagan's back" than Bush in many ways, despite Bush's recent military wins.
Obama v. Romney. Romney's Scorpio Moon opposed Obama's Taurus Moon. The nation picked Taurus over Scorpio.
The only pattern I see is (old) white guys... The one time we get someone who isn't a white guy the nation (and big brother) decides to go back to (old) white guys. Republican Democrat all the same. Self centered.
But I'm just an "Indian rebel". Yes seriously though there has to be some astrological theme that makes it this way (even if it points to something wacky like government manipulation of votes)..
I'm guessing Trump is getting a second term. He will win due to the virus situation and due to the inpopularity of Biden to the Socialist/Democratic American youth especially (and the gays, females, Latins, Natives, African, and Asian Americans who likely feel as though they are being poorly represented). After that maybe Biden if he is still kicking..
No i'm not homeless.. you just can't smell the roses as well as you can through a teepee door..
Soft Alpaca wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 9:27 am
The only pattern I see is (old) white guys... The one time we get someone who isn't a white guy the nation (and big brother) decides to go back to (old) white guys. Republican Democrat all the same. Self centered.
But that's not an astrological pattern, so it's off-topic to this thread.
I'm guessing Trump is getting a second term. He will win due to the virus situation and due to the inpopularity of Biden to the Socialist/Democratic American youth especially (and the gays, females, Latins, Natives, African, and Asian Americans who likely feel as though they are being poorly represented). After that maybe Biden if he is still kicking..
If Trump gets a second term, there may not be an "after that." The nation and the planet are at serious risk every day he's in office - as the last two or three months have shown more vividly than even the prior three years.
I should put this on record because it's started to leak out in conversations here and there:
Based on the high fidelity of this pattern, it is easy to predict that Biden's successor of president - whenever and however that comes about - will have Sun or Moon in Sidereal Scorpio-Taurus or Aries-Libra.
This does create a sizeable pool, though it does reduce the overall pool quite a lot also. These are four possible Sun-signs and four possible Moon-signs - it only takes one! That means about 1/3 (33%) of all people have a qualifying Sun-sign. Of the remaining 2/3, one-third of them have a qualifying Moon-sign (22%). This does qualify just over half the people otherwise qualified to run (about 55%), so perhaps it's not much of a prediction.
Nonetheless, other than Vice President Harris and the possibility of Trump running again, the next three or four names that come up do not qualify, so this might be a useful screen tool as is. For example, Ron DeSantis is a Leo-Capricorn, so he doesn't qualify under this pattern. Neither does Bernie Sanders (Leo-Pisces), who just announced he won't oppose Biden. Other names will come up and this will serve as a useful filter to narrow the list in 2024 or 2028.
If Biden dies while in office, the prediction continues unchanged since Harris has Libra-Aries luminaries. At that point, the "last two presidents" will still have had only Scorpio, Aries, and Libra luminaries, so Taurus-Scorpio and Libra-Aries still become the qualifying axes.
We likely will have an entirely new set of names to juggle in 2024 and 2028. Nonetheless, of former contenders already known to us, or names that keep being floated that haven't run, some who qualify under this pattern besides Harris and Trump are Cory Booker, Rahm Emanuel, Stacey Abrams, Chris Christie, Oprah Winfrey, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O'Rourke, Elizabeth Warrenm Matthew McConaughey, Mike Pence, Larry Hogan, William Barr. There will be others who will pop up (or who I might have missed in the tour).
Interestingly (to me), all but one living former president fits the pattern also, so it seems to be a pro-president pattern in the current larger era. (LOL, technically Jimmy Carter could still run.)
Kamala Harris might become President if Biden dies or resigns (the latter presumably because of failing heath). In the case Biden's health fails but he doesn't resign, Harris could (with a majority vote of the cabinet) invoke the 25th amendment and become Acting President. I assume this last would have the same astrological signature as actually becoming President. As for the chance of Harris being elected in 2024, I'm going to take off my astrologer's hat for a moment and put on my political analyst's hat: not on an answered prayer -- her poll numbers stink even worse than Biden's, and his reek to high heaven. There is one genuinely miraculous possibility that might change that: she become President/Acting President during Biden's term and surprises everyone including herself by governing successfully from the center rather than somewhere farther left than Biden. In said miraculous scenario, I'd even vote for her.
I think for good or ill the most likely 2024 scenario is Trump pulling a Grover Cleveland and serving to non-consecutive terms. This is of course assuming (a) Trump's health doesn't fail, and (b) he actually wants to run.
My hope is that both parties nominate younger candidates in 2028, and a constitutional amendment is enacted setting age limits for the President, Vice President, members of Congress, and federal judges. Even if this happens, I don't expect to live to see it.
mikestar13 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:19 pm
Kamala Harris might become President if Biden dies or resigns... I assume this last would have the same astrological signature as actually becoming President.
I don't know, since we've never seen it. The few seeming exceptions or distortions to the pattern have included successors to presidents who died in office, so maybe not.
However, in Harris' case it doesn't matter: They share an Aries Moon so she's qualified under the formula. Also, she doesn't change the projection for who comes next: Right now, the current and immediately past president are a Scorpio-Aries and a Taurus-Scorpio, so the choices are Taurus-Scorpio & Aries-Libra. If Harris succeeds Biden, then the then-current and immediately past president would be a Libra-Aries and a Scorpio-Aries - so, still calling for Taurus-Scorpio or Libra-Aries.
As for the chance of Harris being elected in 2024, I'm going to take off my astrologer's hat for a moment and put on my political analyst's hat: not on an answered prayer
Agreed. Neither her numbers nor the political climate support it.
I think for good or ill the most likely 2024 scenario is Trump pulling a Grover Cleveland and serving to non-consecutive terms. This is of course assuming (a) Trump's health doesn't fail, and (b) he actually wants to run.
I refuse to be so morbid. Not only would those four years be incredibly terrible, I don't trust the world we'd have at the end (or if we'd have a recognizable U.S. at all); and the failure to exclude him on constitutional grounds would be a dark, dark failure of the Constitution. Nonetheless, Pluto is in Capricorn, so the darkest visions are less impossible.
Truth is seeing what the Democrats have to offer, I would most prefer to vote for a moderate Republican (if there be such) who is less aggressive and confrontational than Trump. As long as the Democrats focus on identity politics and worrying about pronouns instead of their historic focus on legitimate needs and grievances of the poor, minorities, and workers, I do not intend to vote for them. This is quite normal in the USA: very many people vote against whomever they dislike/hate/fear more, rather than for the opponent. Every Presidential vote I've cast since I came of age in 1975 has followed that pattern. As a white cisgender heterosexual male Christian, I fear the Democrats more--which is not to say I don't fear the Republicans. Any sane person fears both sides at least a little.
A name I just added to the above list (in addition to Pence, whom I'd forgotten to include) is Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan - ironically a Taurus-Scorpio like Trump. He's mentioned frequently as a possible contender and might align with what you described.
Jim this to me is settling out to be Maine and Montana against seditious Republicans. (Look at these two red libertarian states) I as a Lincoln (style and by Hanks blood) Republican I still believe that the threat of loosing the Union would be the darkest option for Capricorn Pluto.
Mr Trump has lost control of the party in the sense that there are now those willing to undo the separation of the church and state and that will be a rallying cry to northern and libertarian Republicans everywhere.
No i'm not homeless.. you just can't smell the roses as well as you can through a teepee door..
Soft Alpaca wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:24 pm
Mr Trump has lost control of the party in the sense that there are now those willing to undo the separation of the church and state and that will be a rallying cry to northern and libertarian Republicans everywhere.
One can only hope! (It is certainly a rallying cry for the left and should be for everyone IMHO. The original goal, of course, was not separation of church and state: That's the method. The goal was universal choice in the practice of religion and broad religious freedom.)
I went through all these charts last night. I wanted to compare the tropical view to see if the same "inheritance" rule applies to the tropical signs. Please bare with me - this is actually an important comparison, even though you believe in sidereal. I made an excel sheet and noted the luminary signs as well as the ASC and MC signs and the Nodes. Of course we might not be able to trust all these charts fully, since not all of the birth times are reliable. But I see a pattern. A very strong pattern. And in the anomaly cases from luminary inheritance, then the inheritance is drawn from those other personal points in the zodiac.
The first transfer of power from Washington to John Adams shows this pattern (if their birth times are close to accurate). From Pis Sun to Vir ASC and from Tau ASC to Scorpio Sun.
From this first transfer the pattern is consistent with the luminary inheritance until president Martin Van Buren. In his case the axis flips to square from Pis Sun, Vir Moon to his Sag-Sag luminaries and ASC. However in this case the ASC and MC show inheritance pattern from Aries ASC to Libra MC and he has the same MC sign as J.Q. Adams, second reverse. I was wondering if his presidency was an anomaly?
The next transfer from M.V. Buren to W.H. Harrison shows an inheritance only through their nodal axis which is from Aries to Libra. But Harrison also gets inheritance from two back, same Moon sign as A. Jackson and same MC. After him, John Tyler has the same pattern, Virgo Moon and Cap MC.
James K. Polk has his inheritance pattern differently. His Scorpio Sun and MC is in Tyler's NNode sign, his Moon possibly opp Tyler's MC sign, his ASC in Tyler's MC and his Nnode sign opp Tyler's MC. He also has personal points inheritance from W.H. Harrison.
After him we have seven in a row with the luminary inheritance, and then an anomaly with R.B. Hayes.
But a similar personal point pattern appears in this anomaly, he has the same Nnode sign as his predecessor. And then Garfield after him has his Nnode in Leo, and then the pattern is from ASC to MC in Gem, and from MC Pis to MC Virgo. We can also skip one and go two back to see the luminary pattern from Grant to Garfield: Sun and MC from Tau to Sco Sun and Tau Moon.
The next anomaly is Grover Cleveland, and again we see the personal point inheritance from Arthur's Cap Moon and Can MC to Cleveland's Can ASC. His nodes connect with Garfield's luminaries as well.
Luminary pattern continues until Roosevelt. But again, a personal point pattern instead from Nnode Cap to Roosevelts' Can Moon and from the second back NNode sign Tau to Roosevelts Scorpio Sun and from Pis Sun&MC to Roosevelts Pis MC and NNode.
The pattern continues and the next anomaly is W.G. Harding who also inherits from personal points: from Nnode Aries to his Nnode Libra. And aslo two back from Virgo Sun to his Pis ASC and from Tau ASC to his Sco Sun and Tau Moon.
Hoover is also an anomaly who inherits from Harding instead of Coolidge, and it's through the nodal axis again as well as his ASC. His Leo luminaris square Hardings Sco-Tau full Moon.
The same pattern happens with Truman who inherits from Hoover in a similar manner, through the Nodes and flipping/squaring his Tau-Sco full Moon to Hoovers Leo luminaries.
Eisenhower then also inherits from Truman's Nnode in Lib to his Lib Sun-Moon and from Roosevelts Gem MC to his own Gem MC and Nnode.
Similar exchange happens to J.F. Kennedy, from Eisenhowers' Gem MC&Nnode to JFK Gem Sun and his Vir Moon to JFK Vir Moon and the Lib Sun& Moon to JFK ASC. Truman is also in the personal point picture.
Lyndon B. Johnson Vir Sun&Moon like JFK Moon and same nodal axis.
Nixon inheritance is from Can Nnode to Cap Sun, Gem MC to Sag Moon, Cap Sun to Cap MC and Vir ASC to Pis Nnode.
Similar pattern occurs with Jimmy Carter, two back from Nixon's Nodes to Carter's Lib Sun and ASC and from Ford's Can Sun and Cap MC to Carter's MC.
The luminary pattern then continues all the way until Joe Biden and then this pattern takes over, from Trump's Gem Sun, Sag Moon and Gem Nnode to Biden's Sag ASC, from Trump's Tau MC to Biden's Sco Sun, Tau Moon.
This is an amazingly consistent pattern. Either directly through the luminaries or Nodes or personal angle axis. All of them. Without exception.
Is it likely, according to this pattern that J.D. Vance will be next in line (we don't have a candidate to compare on the other side right now).
J.D. Vance has tropical Leo Sun&ASC and Libra Moon, Taurus MC and Gem Nnode.
Yes, his pattern is an inheritance pattern from Trump's Gem Sun&Nnode, Sag Moon, Leo ASC and Tau MC.
Arena
There is nothing to believe in.
Saturn is quite clearly in Aquarius.
Jupiter is in Taurus.
I watched them both wander last night and this morning.
Tropical is fictious superstious falsities.
Please post your tropical (if you must) in the experimental sub forum, or on a forum for tropical astrologers.
Honestly your posts and the posts of many others here comes across to me as simply trying to discredit and debunk and defame the work of Jim. Everything you say seems to be akin to ….hmmmm how weird that in my special case none of Sidereal methods pan out….So much time and effort to assert how Sidereal doesn’t implicate your experience of your life. It’s just very weird to me that since it doesn’t seem to mesh with you why you so strongly post your aversion to it and its shortcomings and not move on to other things. I honestly feel many people have a vested interest in discrediting Jim’s work.
No way can I even begin to beleive my Natal Mercury is not in Sidereal Virgo instead of Tropical Libra!!! But I do beleive in the divisions of the Tropical Zodiac for very important types of seasons for certain timing purposes mundanely on Earth. And I also beleive many astrologers who use the Tropical Zodiac have produced some excellent timing methodologies which have absolutely nothing to do with Signs, no doubt in my mind. I have no problems geting along with a Tropical astrologer as long as they can prove to me their timing methodologies work. I will not automactically shut my mind to a Tropical astrologer just because I absolutely beleive in the Sidereal Zodiac. I know excellent Tropical astrologers and Sidereal astrologers who both teach excllent timing methodologies. Arena beleives in the Tropical Signs on a Sidereal Zodiac Forum, but I don't see Arena as trying to intentially undermine Jim's work. I beleive Arena is here to learn just as me. We should all keep open minds for possible learnings.
SteveS wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:32 am
Arena beleives in the Tropical Signs on a Sidereal Zodiac Forum, but I don't see Arena as trying to intentially undermine Jim's work. I beleive Arena is here to learn just as me. We should all keep open minds for possible learnings.
I agree with Veronica.
We should not keep an open mind about something that is observably false. Astrology is not based in belief, it is based in observation. If astrology were a religion I would not give it any of my attention. And someone making a long post about tropical astrology on a website solely focused on Sidereal Astrology is most certainly undermining Jim's work.
But thank you, Arena, for helping me to understand those with double rim luminaries so much more.
I agree with Veronica and LeiLei 100 %.
I can honestly say Sidereal teachings of Jim changed my life for the better in every possible way and really, I have no desire to compare, it doesn’t make sense to me.
Found the Presidents analysis very interesting, and hope to study further the correspondences born out by the research. My clairvoyance tells me Hillary Clinton will be our next president, but I'm in need of a valid, or speculative good source suggested birthtime. I believe her Pisces natal (D*?) Moon could fall into the pattern Jim was demonstrating. Likewise, Political Astrology by axiom calls an election to go to Jupiter transiting the Candidates Moon; Showing popularity with the Public by Vote for the Candidate. My hunch is that some of the candidates may fall close, but not enough to personify Real Change, like the First Woman US President in History. Birthtime submittals send to: katarche@ Yahoo.com -Thank You. May all our advocates & colleagues Live long & Prosper. Lux, Sidereal Bob 
