Beauty in the natal chart

[Freya]

Oct 27, 2013
In women, what are the indicators of beauty in the natal chart? By beauty I mean actual physical attractiveness, more than a magnetic personality lacking in true physical good looks by conventional standards.

I have found that sun-venus aspects, venus foreground, the sign of virgo, Libra and sometimes Leo all contribute towards this. Mars and Scorpio, at times Saturn foreground, tend to do the opposite, making women look more masculine and not physically beautiful as such.

Any other clues that any of you have found in your research?

Thanks

[Freya]

I have found that sun-venus aspects, venus foreground, the sign of virgo, Libra and sometimes Leo all contribute towards this.

I agree with this, except for Virgo - most of luminary-Virgos I know have the characteristic purity/innocence which shines from them, but are not necessarily beautiful in the sense venusian people are.

I'd also add angular Sun to the list; there is natural charisma in these people, they are magnetically attractive, and no matter how exactly they look physically, there is always some appealing beauty in them.
Jovial types (angular Jupiter) are often considered beautiful by others around them, I think it's due to the joy, enthusiasm and optimism they project.

And Venus-Neptune combinations can be added to the list, I think, when they are prominent; for example, Venusian Sun - Libra or Taurus - with angular Neptune, or with Venus-Neptune strong aspect; the four people with these combinations that immediately come to my mind right now, people that I know personally, are all markedly beautiful and they also very much care for their appearance.

[Freya]

Thank you Danica Moon in Capricorn also gives beauty, but I personally I only know a few women with this moon sign and they are all remarkably unattractive

[Freya]

There's always the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" fact.

I personally find Aquarius Luminaries people very beautiful, and I think it has to do with my Leo Moon.

Perhaps it's the general case - Virgo Moons being attracted to Pisces Luminaries (seeing them as beautiful), Cancer Moons with Capricorn, etc.?
Can anyone attest to this from personal experience?

[Freya]

Yes, me. Moon in Virgo, married to Sun in Pisces.

[Freya]

I have to agree most with the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" remarks: It's hard to say what is intrinsically beautiful without knowing what a particular person finds beautiful.

Generally, I totally ignore all stuff about physical appearance and the horoscope - there are too many factors (genetic, racial, cultural, individual) intruding. However, people with Venus closely on an angle have a very distinctive look that I can only call a "perfect China doll" look. It's hard to find an example without this.

Broadly, I agree with you on other Venus themes. However, they are imperfect. Libra Sun, for example, can be almost ugly sometimes - a whole range of appearance - but they don't come across that way. They are very appearance sensitive, so they "package" it more attentively than most.

Mars-themed women, that you call "masculine" - I agree, but would have said "handsome." There is a pure testosterone-beauty.

And it's hard to separate from sexuality and other charisma factors. Een more than the Sun (which can "glow,") the Moon is important - the majority of cultural "sex symbols" (female) of the last half of the 20th Century - the Marilyn Monroe type - have Moon exactly on an angle.

[Freya]

I started a sign-based study of sex symbols a couple of years ago and never finished it. I have just over a hundred men and women considered sex symbols - somebody else's published list, I often don't agree with it, but using their list uniformly makes it more objective from my side.

One of the stark things I noticed is that which signs are predominant will change decade by decade. Mostly they stayed stable until the mid-60s, then the patterns started changing (changing in cultural media?). I'll give a few notes, but please don't take these as any kind of final word - I never properly finished up the work, so these are inferences.

Across more than six decades, the overall pattern was that women considered sex symbols most often had the Sun in Taurus, and almost never had it in Aries or Pisces. To my great surprise, Moon in Aquarius arched above all the others. Women with Moon in Aquarius include:

Gene Tierney
Ava Gardner
Grace Kelly
Jayne Mansfield
Lana Turner
Eartha Kitt
Heather Thomas
Cindy Crawford
Cheryl Cole
Katrina Kaif
Jessica Alba

You mentioned Moon in Capricorn. Their look is distinctly lusty, very "come {uh} do me" expressions. Examples (not as many of them) include:

Lillian Russell
Vivien Leigh
Sophia Loren
Marilyn Monroe
Uma Thurman
Britney Spears
Teri Hatcher

The Sun in Taurus women include some that might be considered ugly by absolute facial feature measurements, but they stream sexuality:

Josephine Baker
Marilyn Monroe
Pam Grier
Grace Jones
Cher
Brooke Shields
Elizabeth Hurley
Kylie Minogue
Angelina Jolie
Megan Fox

What about Aries and Pisces was so low? Well, you decide - here are the examples. It's not easy to see, though, because half of the four examples have Aquarius Moons - they are the Aries Suns that WERE sex symbols! Here's the list, though, in case you can figure something out:

Jayne Mansfield
Ann-Margret
Uma Thurman
Jessica Alba

And the Sun in Pisces:

Bette Davis
Eva Longoria

[Freya]

Jim thank you so much for your input and data. The vedics if I am not mistaken, list Virgo as one of the constellations that gives good looks to women. Have you found this to be somewhat true?

[Freya]

Jim thank you so much for your input and data. The vedics if I am not mistaken, list Virgo as one of the constellations that gives good looks to women. Have you found this to be somewhat true?

As indicated previously, I generally don't look at astrology in relation to physical appearance and, on matters of beauty, I think the question is inseparable from the eye of the beholder.

But... pulling up a list of famous Virgo women... it is hard to ignore names like Brigitte Bardot and Heather Locklear.

Of those I've known personally, though, there is a certain boyishness. That is, Virgo gives an androgynous quality that makes women somewhat boyish, and makes men slightly fem.

[Freya]

That's interesting.... I thought that of the constellation of Gemini!

[Freya]

Yes. The two Mercury signs.

[Freya]

Out of curiosity, has anybody tested the statistics of physical appearance in re: the ascendent? This won't likely answer the question of "beauty" (as I think the "eye of the beholder" argument is the strongest) but I happened to be reading the chapters of Magick Without Tears regarding astrology this morning and Crowley intimates that he conducted regular tests based on physical appearance and had striking success in matching it to the ascendent. This does not take into account the incorrect ascendent caused by tropical measurements, a lack of recorded data to confirm his claim, or Crowley's own veracity in all maters self-aggrandizing... but it does beg the question.

Jim, I've read elsewhere on the sight that you don't put much stock in the importance of the ascendent and here you mention that you totally ignore the stuff about physical appearance. Might there be something to be gained by checking the data of these two ignored areas to see if they overlap?

[Freya]

Jim, I've read elsewhere on the sight that you don't put much stock in the importance of the ascendent and here you mention that you totally ignore the stuff about physical appearance. Might there be something to be gained by checking the data of these two ignored areas to see if they overlap?

I doubt it.

[Freya]

I don't know if the ascendant has anything to do with it, but mine is Leo and I have long thick hair that many people say resembles a lion's mane! I think this is probably coincidence, as I don't think either Gemini or Virgo (my luminaries) tend to do this.

[Freya]

I don't know if the ascendant has anything to do with it, but mine is Leo and I have long thick hair that many people say resembles a lion's mane!

Yes, Leo rising tends to style its mane That's packaging, not inherent physical appearance.

[Freya]

That's again accurate for me! (Although I do not look boyish at all despite the two mercury luminaries) Must be the sun-venus conjunction.

[Freya]

Crowley's description seemed to suggest that his mastery of ascendant prediction centered around what we now categorize as Ectomorph, Mesomorph, and Endomorph (Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable respectively) with subtler shadings based on element. Again, I have no data to evaluate this claim (aside from my own ectomorph/cardinal confirmation) but it might be something I check in the future, even if just to quell the pesky little questioning voice that now exists in the back of my mind.

[Freya]

I agree with everyone, it's all relatively objective. I have 2 friends that have their suns sin leos, one a woman is physically stunning, and beatiful, the other a male is homosexual, and looks like Mr. Garrison from South Park. All three of us are leos born on different years. There are billions of different gentic combos that can account for someone's look and only 9 planets that have any real influence over and its life forms. I would rather have been born an exotic orchid.

[Freya]

I would rather have been born an exotic orchid.

I thought that's what those born under Ophiuchus were.

(running now)

[Freya]

And Venus-Neptune combinations can be added to the list, I think, when they are prominent; for example, Venusian Sun - Libra or Taurus - with angular Neptune, or with Venus-Neptune strong aspect; the four people with these combinations that immediately come to my mind right now, people that I know personally, are all markedly beautiful and they also very much care for their appearance.

I think this works better for women than men, cuz my siblings and I all have some type of a Venus-Neptune combination (Me: Sun in Libra, angular Neptune, 1st Sis: Moon in Pisces and a partile Venus-Neptune trine, 2nd sis: Moon in Taurus and angular Neptune) but my sisters are much better-looking than I am, like significantly. A lot of people agree too. I wish I was a woman, for at least this reason.

Thank you Danica Moon in Capricorn also gives beauty, but I personally I only know a few women with this moon sign and they are all remarkably unattractive

The [in?]famous Marilyn Monroe had her Moon in Capricorn as well, in fact partile to mine—another reason why I want to be a woman—for beauty, not sex appeal

And something I had in my mind for some time:
Do men who have their Marses around 15° Hub are generally considered handsome? I'm not saying this because I have my Venus in 15°Leo as well, but because the current and past winners of Mr.World (an Indian and a Dutch I believe) have their Marses at this placement and a Malay guy who I know at school also has his Mars at 15°Hub and is considered very handsome as well by many. David Beckham has is Mars in 20-21° Aquarius so I'm not sure what is the range of degrees that gives this physical attractiveness to them.

[Freya]

Great post guys, look how long it's been going.
I think beauty is more objective or the most objective we can get. Beauty in itself is life. Attraction is more circumstantial, conditional. Pretty, cute, hot, sexy, handsome and so on, are more subjective in nature and are based more on present attractiveness. Beauty does not depend on attractiveness, or has less conditions- like makeup, age, culture, society roles, standards, demographic, trends. The others do. If Megan fox smelled awful, she would still be beautiful. My attraction to her would be less, unless she showered. I may ask her to shower before getting close to her, but she would without a doubt be beautiful.
Scarlett Johansson is beautiful, but not the most beautiful. But in beauty , it does not matter who is more or less. Beauty does not compare or compete. So it is objective. The others do compare and compete. They are subjective. Megan Fox could vomit on me and she would still be beautiful. She would not be attractive at the moment. I would not want to sleep with her, rolling in vomit. And after she washed up and became well, she would be prettier.
When choosing between who I want to marry, or be with, I will choose the best I can based on who I think is best for me and best for us, best for our relationship and future. I understand that we will change and get old, bones weaker, skin wrinkled and so on. But we sill still be beautiful, forever. If one of us or both of us become mentally or physically dysfunctional, we may loose certain attraction. I might need viagra. She might need diapers. But we choose to see the objective beauty. Why? To remain as real as possible.
We may end up fighting here and there. We may end up bitter, bored, frustrated, angry, disappointed, guilty, jealous... but we have love, we have beauty, as a foundation, as a glue, holding us together.

[Freya]

Well, your angular sun in Libra along with Neptune in the first is completely different than Venus/Neptune. I would say aesthetically, this combination can be treacherous for women if they don't have a healthy outlet for it.

I have found this aspect in the beauty industry quite readily with designers, models, and makeup artists.

Very true Venus. A Libra Sun (background) here with an angular Neptune. I love fashion, shows, designing, form, beautiful colours and trendwatching. It's like food for the soul and my outlet like you mention.
Would you perhaps be able to start small and do a aesthetic course on something you like? Lately for example I have been thinking of joining a French hairdresser's course in the evening.
Regards,
Flo

[Freya]

The Marquardt beauty mask is a set of geometric lines based on the golden mean for people who want to judge how closely their own faces or those of others come to the standard of beauty that's been recognized the world over for thousands of years. Mostly women are judged against it, but men can be judged as well. It's often used by surgeons for facial surgery.

Perhaps you all can use it to set yourselves some criteria, matching how closely someone's face matches to the mask and seeing what is more usually angular or what "signs" they are.

[Freya]

Thank you JSAD, that's a great site. Very interesting.
Regards,
Flo

[Freya]

In general, Aquarius moon and Taurus sun are highly attractive to me. Especially the former. Capricorn sun I am usually attracted to, but the Capricorn sun- Aquarius Moon combo examples I have known are extremely sexy to me.

[Freya]

In general, Aquarius moon and Taurus sun are highly attractive to me. Especially the former. Capricorn sun I am usually attracted to, but the Capricorn sun- Aquarius Moon combo examples I have known are extremely sexy to me.

Holland's favorite top model, Capricorn-Aquarius:
Doutzen Kroes
Jan 23 1985, time unknown, Drachten, the Netherlands.

[Freya]

This is a work in progress by the way. First in adjacent signs, then rank. Most arguable and relative, subjective.
Female Sun signs and general relative attractiveness-(not beauty)-
Taurus sun over Aries and Gemini sun. Pisces sun over Aries and Aquarius sun. Capricorn sun over Aquarius sun.
Virgo and Libra too close I think.
Virgo and Leo too close, though I'd pick Virgo far as media, movies ect.
Sagittarius and Capricorn too close. Though Capricorn may have current edge.
Scorpio may have current edge over Sagittarius
Cancer is in the middle.
Gemini sun probably least generally attractive.
Taurus highest, then probably Pisces, Scorpio, Virgo, Capricorn, Libra, Leo, Cancer, Sagittarius, Aries, Aquarius and Gemini.

[Freya]

Now for moon- again work in progress. This one tougher for me to position. First four I think are much more solid, and then last four can be more easily rearranged.

Taurus moon still more than Aries and Gemini. Aquarius over Pisces but too close to Capricorn. Sagittarius over Scorpio but not Capricorn. Cancer higher than Gemini and Leo. Virgo and Leo I don't know. Virgo and Libra I don't know.

Id say- Taurus, Cancer, Aquarius, Capricorn, Gemini, Sagittarius, Pisces, Virgo, Aries, Scorpio, Leo