Saturn in Scorpio

[Jim Eshelman]

Saturn is now in Scorpio. For those who wish to explore the meaning of this against historic events, here are recent cycles of Saturn in Scorpio:

Nov 26, 1896 to Mar 12, 1899
Apr 22, 1899 to Nov 24, 1899

January 10, 1926 to May 1, 1926
October 8, 1926 to January 1, 1929

November 19, 1955 to February 19, 1958
May 19, 1958 to November 15, 1958

December 29, 1984 to May 19, 1985
September 27, 1985 to December 24, 1987

November 9, 2014 to February 4, 2017
June 8, 2017 to November 4, 2017

[Jim Eshelman]

(12/4/2015)

I wanted to revisit this. Has anyone any insight into what this has meant?

I could make stuff up - it's certainly easy to frame a discussion in terms of our national struggle with violence issues during this, for example. The timing is quite good, in fact. I just like to avoid easy answers like that unless we can confirm that this was a pattern from earlier passes. Can anyone see patterns in historic periods Saturn has been in Scorpio?

Primarily, though, I want to stir discussion on one area where we have seen Saturn behave repeatedly across many decades: There is a strong tendency of Saturn's current constellation to show areas of acute shortage that (under the basic laws of economics and commerce) therefore become acute price spikes. This first caught my attention during the beef shortage with Saturn in Taurus (!!!), followed a couple of years later by the fuel shortage, permanent reduction of national speed limit, and severe cut-back in people's travelling with Saturn in Gemini. I've witnessed two Saturn cycles with spiked housing costs with Saturn in Cancer, and two cycles of seeing gold prices spike for more or less the exact time Saturn was in Leo.

These are almost absurdly literal! In one sense, I love this sort of stuff - the stuff that had Bradley citing Mars' long stay in Aquarius as behind the Suez Canal mini-war in the late '50s because, after all, the canal was just one big water carrier.

Saturn's recent pass through Virgo put the focus for two years especially on the service industry, with one of the largest pushes for expanded minimum wage and other concessions to that industry (the parent of similar pushes today). Saturn in Libra marked the nation's struggle with redefining the cultural vision of marriage, though that's not so much in the "shortage/inflated value" cycle.

So now, we're almost halfway through Saturn in Scorpio. What's it all about?

I do think we have to consider our national struggle with the nature of violence and hatred. Even though so much of this is basically arising pout of Uranus-Pluto, the target areas have been intensified attention on race-issue violence, reassessment of police violence, and our new "one slaughter a day" diet of mass killings. And there are many (probably dozens) of spin-off issues (gun ownership, for example). It's not that these are new issues, but that they have an atypically loud voice in our society right now compared to recent years / decades.

I don't see specific areas, though, where we have acute shortages. We certainly aren't at a shortage for war. I thought about Scorpio's connection to poisons, which led me to think about the pharmaceutical industry... but, if we're having atypical cost increases in pharmaceuticals, I haven't seen report ofit (anybody have the mean to check this?).

Are there specific commodities that have been spiking in price for the last 13 months, since November 2014?

[Jim Eshelman]

A lack of action. A lack of courage. Trying to get along with others rather than doing what needs to be done. (for instance, not blowing up the oil wells Daesh is making money off because Turkey and the Saudis are also still making money off them.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Nov 26, 1896 to Mar 12, 1899
Apr 22, 1899 to Nov 24, 1899

England punitive war in Benin (Nigeria). Electron discovered. Dracula (Stoker) published. Greco-Turkish War ends (treaty). Korean Empire established, ending 500-year Joseon Kingdom. Great Blizzard of 1888 (eastern U.S.). "Year of the Three Emperors" in Germany (1888). Whitechapel murders (Jack the Ripper). POTUS election, popular & electoral votes diverged. Crown Prince Rudolf murder-suicide. 4 U.S. states added. Oklahoma Territory Land Rush of 1889. Electric power transmission over lines starts to roll out. Great Fire of Spokane. London dock strike (minimum wage issue).

January 10, 1926 to May 1, 1926
October 8, 1926 to January 1, 1929

Treaty of Berlin (Germany-Soviet neutrality pact). Shah of Iran crowned. Trotsky removed Politburo, then party, then exiled. NBC radio network launches. Lithuanian coup. Heisenberg uncertainty principle formulated. Diamond rush in South Africa. Honshu 7.6m quake kills 3,000. Japan banking crisis. Great Mississippi Flood of 1927. Bath School disaster. England recognizes sovereignty of kingdom that later becomes Saudi Arabia. Iraq becomes independent of Britain. Lindbergh Atlantic flight, China 8.6m quake kills 200,ooo. "Espionage" is a hot word in many events. League of Nations treaty to abolish slavery. Kellogg-Briand Pact outlaws aggressive war. Stalin launches his First 5-Year Plan. Opus Dei founded.

November 19, 1955 to February 19, 1958
May 19, 1958 to November 15, 1958

Rosa Parks bus incident et. seq. AFL & CIO merge. Elvis Presley. Andrea Doria sinks. World's first nuclear power plant opened. Suez Crisis (England, France, and Israel invade Egypt). Hungarian Revolution. Treaty of Rome establishes EEC. Intensified & growing Civil Rights movement with frequent police / national guard conflict. Civil Rights Act of 1957. Sputnik launched. Cold War intensification, much nuclear testing. Alaska becomes a state. Iraq revolution kills King Faisal, U.S. moves to protect Beirut, England moves to protect Jordan. NASA & FAA created. Chinese Civil War. Integrated circuit invented.

December 29, 1984 to May 19, 1985
September 27, 1985 to December 24, 1987

Madonna's first tour. Blood test to identify AIDS. "New Coke" released (and all that happened after). Unabomber. Mikhail Gorbachev comes to power. John Gotti takes over the Gambino family. World's first PC virus enters the wild. Shuttle Challenger destruction. Chernobyl. Iran-Contra Affair & its sequelae. Bork nomination to Supreme Court (and effective block). 1987 stock market crisis.

[Jim Eshelman]

(1/22/2016)

A fascinating op-ed appears in NY Times today - David Brooks' regular column, with a headline, "The Anxieties of Impotence."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/opini ... d=34985990

Brooks argues that we live in a time substantially characterized by a widespread sense of powerlessness. For example, he quotes another columnist who recently remarked, “If anything unites America in this fractious moment it is a widespread sentiment that power is somewhere other than where you are.” He cites Pew Research Center research finding that two-thirds of Americans on both sides of the party divide believe that their side has been losing more than winning.

What a fascinating analysis of the time that Saturn is in Scorpio!

The overall discussion is worth a read if you're interested in the subject. He concludes by implying that we have been moving deeper into atomization (away from collective action) and, as a people, embracing "the demagogy of destruction" more than "the craft of political architecture."

One might even more simply say that there is a kind of primitization of the species occurring in the sense that survival needs are under assault and, therefore, are asserting themselves with increased vigor.

[Jim Eshelman]

May 9, 1893 at the Brooklyn Institute of Arts and Sciences - introduction to the public of the first kinescope and first public showing of a film "Blacksmith Scene."
April 14, 1894, at at 1155 Broadway, NYC, first kinescope parlor opened.

This was also the time period during which people knew they could fly but couldn't manage to get off the ground.

The February 23, 1893 bankruptcy of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad set off the Panic of 1893, which generated a depression lasting through 1896. Bank runs were a common feature of the panic.

[Jim Eshelman]

First time Im reading this post.
Brief analysis of mine thinks of people aggressive urging to escape an unwanted situation in order to preserve their personal freedoms.
Allot of look but don't touch. That's mine, not yours vulnerability. Social constrain from fear of the future. A certain fixed and unpleasant devotion to friends and family. Unpleasant because its fixed.
Avoiding real resolutions in favor of trade or fitting in by simply just doing what you want in a conservative and subtly ruthless fashion.
A mantra of, well at least I'm safe. I could always do better but I might as well limit my mistakes and simply survive at any means comfortably. Whatever we get away with socially.

[Jim Eshelman]

Let me chime in...

Saturn is now in Scorpio. For those who wish to explore the meaning of this against historic events, here are recent cycles of Saturn in Scorpio:

January 10, 1926 to May 1, 1926
October 8, 1926 to January 1, 1929

November 9, 2014 to February 4, 2017
June 8, 2017 to November 4, 2017

What I see common in these two time periods are the peak (or over)-production/mining of resources.
In Malaysia (known back then as Malaya), the late 1920's were the time when it was the main exporter of tin. About 51% of the world's tin was from Malaya at that time. All for the needs of the British, who ruled MY at that time.
Later, Tin prices fell when the great depression striked.
MY was also a major natural rubber exporter at that time. World rubber prices fell too much, Malaya's (and also other colonial countries') economy(~ies) fell down a bit. Later in the 1930's, agreements were made to control it.

Now, I guess oil is being over-extracted, and it's prices are declining too. Countries which economy depends on oil (like mine) are at least facing lower currency values.

You also said there was a diamond rush at South Africa at this time too.

November 19, 1955 to February 19, 1958
May 19, 1958 to November 15, 1958

Malaya gained independence from the British at this time, mainly through delegation, forming the federation of Malaya, till it's name changed (and two new states plus Singapore joined) to Malaysia at 1963. Singapore later became an independent country at 1965.

You also said Alaska became a state at this time too, if I remember, the US bought it from Russia.

[Jim Eshelman]

(Just my impressions, and possibly way off, but) Saturn isn't just about shortages--it's also about record-breaking metrics. Pointing out that the great dane is the tallest dog, or that the albatross has the largest wingspan, are very saturnine ways of talking about animals.

In the constellation interpretation thread, qualities associated with Saturn in Scorpio are idealist, sentimental, active--as opposed to hardworking, kind, sympathetic, cold.

I can't help but think of Saturn in Scorpio as being about investment bubbles. There's the idealistic optimism, the idea of using market expectations to make money, instead of cold, hard work. And then Scorpio pops that bubble with its stinger.

With that point-of-view:

1896-1899 -- Klondike gold rush, panic of 1896, 1899 recession
1926-1928 -- Stock market crash
1955-1958 -- Crash in new car sales leading to Eisenhower recession of 1958
1985-1987 -- Stock market bubble leading to Black Monday in 1987
2014-2017 -- Oil market bubble and price war with Saudis leading to a crash of some kind in 2017?

[Jim Eshelman]

Saturn retrogrades back into Scorpio tomorrow, and finishes out her term in Mars' constellation from now to the first week of November.

This should be an interesting opportunity to watch changes of cycle again. Strangely, Trump's travel ban is heading back to the Supreme Court, though I would expect the loud themes of suppression regarding long-distance travel, immigration, internationalism, and the courts in general to recede between now and November.

Saturn initially entered Sagittarius the first week of February. The transition back to Scorpio occurs tomorrow at 3:09 PM Eastern Time.

As a summary, here is what we observed from Saturn in Scorpio previously: Accelerated national struggle with violence and hatred, with intensified attention on race-issue violence, reassessment of police violence, and our new "one slaughter a day" diet of mass killings. Sociologically, a generalized acute shortage of power, with parties on all sides equally feeling powerless and, thus, overcompensating. A kind of primitization of the species occurring in the sense that survival needs are under assault and, therefore, are asserting themselves with increased vigor.

[Jim Eshelman]

Saturn's slip back into Scorpio is already so noticeable. I've come to think of its strongest characteristic being that everyone - at least, every category and group, at all points on the social and political spectrum - is feeling like they are losing, not getting their share, etc. It was so obvious in politics last year, and seems to be swinging that way again. Secondarily, Saturn in Scorpio seems to stir the most primitive survival instincts more passionately.

Yesterday's three major (national news level) shooting incidents - unrelated by location and apparent motive, but occurring within a few hours of each other - was a real stand-out. Why did these three zits all pop the same day, at three locations? The one aspect that dominated yesterday was a Sun-Saturn opposition; but we have similar aspects four times a year. This got me thinking about the tone of things the last few days. It indeed feels like Saturn in Scorpio all over again (which it is).

BTW, another expression of that Sun-Saturn opposition was a potentially disciplinary slam at a solar figure. (That might have been a common theme of all the shootings.) I specifically mean the late-afternoon announcement by special prosecutor Mueller that his team is actively investigating Donald Trump for obstruction of justice. It's just an investigation... they have to do it, even if only to rule out wrongdoing - but, coming on his birthday, and under this exact aspect, was most... interesting.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I specifically mean the late-afternoon announcement by special prosecutor Mueller that his team is actively investigating Donald Trump for obstruction of justice.

Mueller didn't announce it and he hasn't confirmed it either. That was a story with 15 confirming sources, none named, by the Washington Post. It's almost certainly true. But there was no announcement, which is why Trump's lawyer was exclaiming about FBI leaks again.
The President was not under investigation for obstruction till he fired Comey, and somebody in the FBI said gee, there's a lot of smoke here.
BTW, Arena, it appears Mueller's team is checking into Trump's involvement in the Icelandic financial scandals.

For those without an ephemeris available, Saturn left Scorpio for Sagittarius on Feb 5, 2017. Having attained 2 Sag 24 on April 6, it turned retrograde, and entered Scorpio on June 8. Saturn will turn direct again from 26 Sco 54 on August 24, and reenter Sagittarius on November 4.

[Arena]

BTW, Arena, it appears Mueller's team is checking into Trump's involvement in the Icelandic financial scandals.

Yes, there were some investigative journalists back in the years of the crash that explained strong linkages of Icelandic bankers to Russia. Could be related.

[Arena]

(Just my impressions, and possibly way off, but) Saturn isn't just about shortages--it's also about record-breaking metrics. Pointing out that the great dane is the tallest dog, or that the albatross has the largest wingspan, are very saturnine ways of talking about animals.

In the constellation interpretation thread, qualities associated with Saturn in Scorpio are idealist, sentimental, active--as opposed to hardworking, kind, sympathetic, cold.

I can't help but think of Saturn in Scorpio as being about investment bubbles. There's the idealistic optimism, the idea of using market expectations to make money, instead of cold, hard work. And then Scorpio pops that bubble with its stinger.

With that point-of-view:

1896-1899 -- Klondike gold rush, panic of 1896, 1899 recession
1926-1928 -- Stock market crash
1955-1958 -- Crash in new car sales leading to Eisenhower recession of 1958
1985-1987 -- Stock market bubble leading to Black Monday in 1987
2014-2017 -- Oil market bubble and price war with Saudis leading to a crash of some kind in 2017?

Most the words above are Jupiterian, not Saturnian. Saturnian is when it comes to the crashes. Jupiter is the expansion.

Pointing out that the great dane is the tallest dog, or that the albatross has the largest wingspan

This is very Jupiterian way of speaking, pointing out something big, expansive.
Investment bubbles are also Jupiterian in nature, they are about optimism and expansion.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'd have to agree with him on investment bubbles. It also makes a sense on simple supply-and-demand - value goes up as availability goes down. I persist in the view that, in ways we can see in most constellations and probably works in all of them, Saturn shows the perception or actuality of insufficiency which drives prices high, creating a bubble market.

I can't confirm this in every constellation - Saturn in Libra was most marked in this country by huge cultural division exacerbated over the definition of marriage, with its eventual liberalization - but I've seen that restriction-thus-inflation in beef-shortages, fuel-shortages, housing-shortages, gold-shortages (perceived) for Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, and Leo, respectively - assaults on the working class and service industries in Virgo - and for the widespread, multilateral perception of having no power as a defining characteristic of the Scorpio passages. (This is not a shortage of violence, but a heavy exacerbation of it.)

Remember, to most of us "inflation" mans "stuff costs more;" but, to an economist, "inflation" means "a reduction in the value of money."

[Arena]

Well, you may see things that way, but that is not the nature of things in my view.
The nature of the economy, with the big money - bubbles within stock market and real estate market (biggest markets) are made because the supply of money is easy, money is expanded (a Jupiter thing) Money gets "printed" within the banks by issuing a loan to a customer - there is no need for the bank to have savings behind that loan. The loan is issued as credit to a customer and becomes an asset to the bank, balances are checked within their books. This is called expansion. It is not because the supply of the goods is scarce. Stocks and housing are not scarcities. There are, on the other hand, lots more people who suddenly have access to money that can buy them. That is the error being made here. If you read top economics that may think a bit outside the box, f.ex. Steve Keen and Stiglitz, they are so competent at pointing out this exact thing and it never ceases to amaze me how well they know the economies, but the public doesn't (usually).

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I've been thinking about this.

Saturn is about actual or perceived shortages. Saturn in Virgo created shortages of bread companies because so many people started trying to reduce their consumption of carbs and gluten the bakers went out of business. People believed the housing market was going to keep going up because there was some shortage of housing so they borrowed against their perceptions, and couldn't pay the loans back.

There are, on the other hand, lots more people who suddenly have access to money that can buy them. That is the error being made here.

There was no expansion in available money. There was an increase in available credit, with people who banks knew couldn't pay the loans being allowed to borrow anyway. The banks knew they would get whatever these people paid against the loans and the houses too.
Banks don't print money. They lend credit. And most people with things that are believed to be scarce either accept credit in payment or their banks do. When people can't pay their debts, the banks keep the money they've already paid, and the stuff that the loan was taken out to buy. Then they bundle the loans and sell them to people who try to collect as much as they can from the people who took them out, often using threats.

Saturn in Scorpio. People are sure there are secrets. Some believe there are secret invasions of alien reptile people in league with Hillary Clinton to make money off enslaving children and holding them in neighborhood pizza parlors. Donald Trump colluded with The Russians to keep Hillary from becoming president. The Media is colluding with I don't know who to pretend Donald Trump's inauguration crowds were smaller than Obama's were. The Democrats and Republicans are colluding to make out that he lost the popular vote. Muslims want to come to this country to impose Sharia Law. Mexicans want to knife us all in our beds. People want big conspiracies, and there are several.
Some of them are real, and some are.. really?
I think that's what Saturn in Scorpio is doing this cycle. I think Saturn works off perceived shortages just as well as it does off real ones. Diamonds aren't expensive because they're rare in nature. They're expensive because a monoply hoards them so the price stays high. Diamonds, used to be oil, Saturn is a hoarder, and encourages people to hoard. I think.

Having seen some of the worst of Sagittarius lately, I'm a little worried about next November.

[Jim Eshelman]

Saturn is about actual or perceived shortages.

Agreed. I guess that needed to be said, so thanks for saying it. Your diamonds example is perfect.

Saturn in Virgo created shortages of bread companies because so many people started trying to reduce their consumption of carbs and gluten the bakers went out of business.

Really? Did I miss that? Perfect.

There was no expansion in available money. There was an increase in available credit, with people who banks knew couldn't pay the loans being allowed to borrow anyway. The banks knew they would get whatever these people paid against the loans and the houses too. Banks don't print money. They lend credit.

One of the gains for me from the '08 crash was that I learned to speak and understand the reverse-language of economists - who usually look at things from quite the opposite side as the rest of us. I gave one example above ("inflation" doesn't mean "stuff is more expensive," it means "money is worth less"). Similarly, and relevant to what you just said, banks don't think of lending as the customer receiving something but, rather, as acquiring debt - seen as a positive acquisition. Changes in regulations in the last quarter century made it legal to market debt as a commodity, and thus subject it all the forces that affect any other commodity. (And acquiring debt is an even better investment when you can later convert it to cash through interest and, if you're lucky, foreclosures.)

Having seen some of the worst of Sagittarius lately, I'm a little worried about next November.

I think the first test pass set up all the themes. But think on the bright side... If I'm reading Trumps charts for next January correctly, Saturn in Sagittarius will also be a highly visible fall from great heights.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Having seen some of the worst of Sagittarius lately, I'm a little worried about next November.

I think the first test pass set up all the themes. But think on the bright side... If I'm reading Trumps charts for next January correctly, Saturn in Sagittarius will also be a highly visible fall from great heights.

And working from the reverse language of economists as well (akin to looking through the other end of a telescope?) if there are arrows involved, rather than being the one shooting them, he may receive a few. At least, that will be his perception.

Golf ball size hail coming. Everybody off the ball fields! (College World Series in town.) I'm more than a little worried about my roof right now.

[Jim Eshelman]

Doesn't Mars cut through your part of the world is the current lunar ingress? I'm not where i can easily check.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Mars is over by Denver and Pluto is around New Orleans. Neither is close. Uranus ASC line is close.

The hail missed us. We got winds clocked at up to 91 MPH, with 84 being average speed there for not quite ten minutes. The cat who didn't want to come in ended up crying piteously for help from under the grill. I saved him. He was grateful for about 3 minutes, just long enough to dry off using my lap as a towel.

[Arena]

There was no expansion in available money. There was an increase in available credit, with people who banks knew couldn't pay the loans being allowed to borrow anyway.

The first sentence is untrue. The second sentence is true, and it is the essence of how money is made in today's digital world and that is why sentence one becomes untrue.

Banks make money by issuing credit to people and businesses. That is expansion within the financial system.
Even though money is not printed on paper physically, that does not mean it is not being made. It is being made and that means more money becomes available - hence inflation can go up. If I buy a house with partly my money from working and partly from a bank that issues credit to me and have digital transfers from my company and my bank to my account and then digitally transfer that money into the house seller account. No printed money have changed hands, but it sure is money anyway - at least it is in the today's world, which is based on digital illusion.

http://positivemoney.org/how-money-work ... ate-money/

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publicat ... eation.pdf


...And then over to what you consider to be Saturn in Scorpio:

Saturn in Scorpio. People are sure there are secrets. Some believe there are secret invasions of alien reptile people in league with Hillary Clinton to make money off enslaving children and holding them in neighborhood pizza parlors. Donald Trump colluded with The Russians to keep Hillary from becoming president. The Media is colluding with I don't know who to pretend Donald Trump's inauguration crowds were smaller than Obama's were. The Democrats and Republicans are colluding to make out that he lost the popular vote. Muslims want to come to this country to impose Sharia Law. Mexicans want to knife us all in our beds. People want big conspiracies, and there are several.

What is your reasoning that this should all be attributed to Saturn moving through Scorpio? What about Neptune going through Aquarius f.ex.?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I'm not going to argue economics here, but that first sentence is not "untrue." It's simply from a different viewpoint. There are lots of economic theories around, all of them imperfect attempts to explain financial doings. I am not using the ones you prefer, and don't choose to use that point of view.

Saturn in Scorpio:
I'm giving my observations based off the number of conspiracy theories and how much insistence there are deep secrets (and a deep state) diminished when Saturn snicked into Sagittarius, and then increased again when Saturn dropped back into Scorpio. I think the planets changing signs, then retrograding back out, then returning again is a good way to see the effect of each sign on the planet.

[Arena]

A tiny little bit more about the expansion of the monetary system. Just because it is of interest to me.
https://rwer.wordpress.com/2017/06/24/m ... rly-wrong/

[SteveS]

Excellent link Arena. It reminds when in 1977 I was taught by a very wise man about how governments and banking systems create money. I was taught the creation of a fiat money system, or, creation of money, always will eventually lead to wild speculative bubbles, which, when popped will lead to long economic depressions. IMO, I think Jim's SMA work on financial panics has now provided us with a most valuable timing key for timing financial panics, and that is when Neptune with certain planetary combos becomes angular in either, or both, the Capsolar and/or Cansolar. This means when you see Neptune involved in these Solar Ingresses with any government system you are living under, then, if you look around and see where there has been any types of major, wild financial speculation occurring--this is a major Red Flag for impending financial danger.