Natal Chart - Scarlet Depths

[Soft Alpaca]

Attached is the birth chart i'm looking at in this moment. I have studied some astrology, this is my sidereal chart using the Atmakaraka as the AC, i choose to use Fagan/Bradley as the system, open for any discussion, i have used different methods but this is becoming my preferred. I'm excited to be in a place open to sidereal astrology. Thanks!

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Hi Scarlet.
What's a Atmakaraka? Is that Indian astrology of some kind?

It would really help if you would post your birth data in this format: Month,Day, Year, Hour:Minutes AM/PM, at Town or City, County, Country, and where you are located now. Your chart is in what amounts to a foreign language to most of us and we need to be able to set it up ourselves in order to comment on it. Remember, you used an alias to post. (Or if you didn't let me know and I'll work with you to change that.)

I hate to mention it right off the bat, but generally, we use a free image site to host things like charts and then link to them as pictures. Hosting images takes up a lot of space, and Jim pays for the space to host this site.

[Soft Alpaca]

Sorry I didn't know about the picture thing. I'm not using an alias I'm not quiet sure what you mean...

[Soft Alpaca]

December, 27 1999, 7:28 am, Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

The angle placement I used is just a different way to get the angle, there is history behind it yes, but really a prefrence is all it is really.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I mean it's probably safe to post your actual birth data if ScarletDepths isn't the name you use in real life.

Angel? You mean angle, like MC or Asc? The MC and Asc don't change using different house systems. But we do often use a different coordinate system based on the prime vertical.

[Soft Alpaca]

The physical angle is what I have set differently. It's a techique that sets the AC on the highest degree inner planet/body to view the chart from the souls perspective, thus it's called the Soul significator, and it functions almost exactly as the purpose sidereal AC as the planet of this will be the one of the most active/ overactive within your chart (mine is Mercury and it's pretty accurate). Also the planets aspecting this will be higher acting too (just what I have seen in other people's charts).

[Soft Alpaca]

Thank you Mr. E. I do choose to run my chart the other way for a specific reason one you might not believe in. Any insites on this chart?

[Jim Eshelman]

Thank you Mr. E. I do choose to run my chart the other way for a specific reason one you might not believe in.

Nonetheless, if you come to this site requesting something about your chart, you get the chart and interpretations according to Sidereal astrology. That's the whole point (Oh. I love you Leo Moons )

[Soft Alpaca]

The other way I'm referring too is the Soul signifer, I find the AC points shallow but the Soul sig. is a very spritual point enough so that ancient Vedic astrologers held it deeper than the AC sign. Curious to see what yours would be. You gave me my whole chart I do appreciate it very much, but you could say we as people always want more...

[Soft Alpaca]

Also on further reading of saggitarius and Leo I'm finding discrepancy. I'm not exactly what one would call formal/polite I have a high sex drive but good control and some standards. I am very artistic and more attracted to mystery and the occult than politics and social Statius/ Statius quo (I match to a different beat). Generally speaking I am controversial and wild so maybe that fit the bill more to saggitarius at least from my window of perception.(?) Maybe other energies can overwhelm the typical energies? I know a have a good mesh of Scorpio/Capricorn energies could that be the cause of this?

[Jim Eshelman]

It sounds to me like you are feeling your Moon-Pluto square quite powerfully. (See my short interpretation above.)

Are you still living near your birthplace? If not, where do you live now, and when did you move there?

From your birth chart, the strongest voices are Sun and Jupiter. This comes from two different sources. First, you have luminaries in Jupiter-like Sagittarius and Sun-like Leo. Second, Sun and Jupiter are you two exactly angular planets. These suggest someone imperial, commanding, and needing to stand out in a singular fashion. (Your Moon also aspects Jupiter very closely BTW, a 0°10' sesqui-square.)

But they are not your only strong planets, of course. The Moon-Pluto is nearly partile, and a very strong aspect. And yes, Pluto stands starkly at odds with Jupiter in most things. Your Jupiter-Sagittarius side is substantially about heritage, traditional institutions, shared cultural values, dignity and esteem, etc. Pluto, on the other hand, more than anything else, wants to be free of others' labels and arbitrary judgements, thinks that traditions are rules some dead people once wrote, places authenticity ahead of dignity, and isn't quite sure it wants even positive judgments from people (since they are still judgements). Especially when we are young, that Pluto tends to come out either as extreme privacy and withdrawing, or as tending to knock things down and break them just to clear the landscape a bit.

The thing is... both of these sides are in you. One may take the upper and for a while, then maybe the other. Or they show in different parts of your life. Or otherwise fight for their independent or collaborative voice in your character. Wholeness will only come when you find that the way for both of these sides to have full-time voice.

We also shouldn't overlook the nearly exact Moon-Saturn trine (0°16'). Here is a concise interpretation:

Proud, self-made. Dynamic, hardworking, persistent, self-driving. Encourages growth in others (expects them to do something worthy of their abilities). Usually emotionally reserved, private. Definite tendency (often unconscious) to seek total control of situations & relationships. Parent-themed issues (nourishment-deprivation, etc.) to work through. Judgmental (intolerant). Can be pessimistic, distrustful, little self-confidence, passive-aggressive, feeling inferior, anxious, depressed. Many enter religious or social work for mixed motives of service, self-immolation, and seeking control.

Several other things can be explored after this central core is clear. Your Mercury is widely foreground, and is the next most important planet, and it is complexly and interestingly aspected. Mars in Capricorn is another very strong voice (and ties into the Mercury double, since Mercury is in Scorpio, which Mars rules; and also ties into the Jupiter). And yes, you've already discovered the very powerful Venus-Mars square, which primarily means that you approach life with great passion - sexuality, but everything else, too - intensely feeling it.

[Soft Alpaca]

Thanks. I feel the Mars and Mercury and Pluto running amuck amuck amuck maybe I'll pull more the sun and moon and Jupiter as I age. I've also an empath and have an emotional underbelly maybe due to the Neptune in the first and moon Pluto? I tend to avoid Saturn it's also in retrograde and I don't resonate with its traits with it much at all. I do love culture but tend to fall in the darker or more shaded parts or cultures, astrology, voodon, chaos magic/physchology etc.Mercury is the highest degree planet so it strengthens there too.

[Jim Eshelman]

I've also an empath and have an emotional underbelly maybe due to the Neptune in the first and moon Pluto?

I wouldn't pick your chart as especially empathic. I would pick it as having a high capacity for compassion, and for "keeping it real" far more than most people, and perhaps that's what it is (the latter from Moon-Pluto).

I'm not arguing with the truth of your self-description BTW, just remarking on what I actually see in the chart.

I tend to avoid Saturn it's also in retrograde and I don't resonate with its traits with it much at all.

You were striking me as fairly self-sufficient, and those strengths are especially Saturn. Other parts of Moon-Saturn are going to seem a lot like Moon-Pluto, but, in particular, the need for self-sufficiency and self-reliance in a word, for autonomy - probably is quite present with this aspect.

Mercury is the highest degree planet so it strengthens there too.

I don't think there is any such provable principle in astrology. Planetary presence seems to be homogenous throughout all parts of a sign, in general. But your Mercury is important because, besides Sun and Jupiter, it is your most angular planet, about 6° above Ascendant. It also has some vivid, empowering (and frankly noisy!) aspects with Mars and Jupiter.

[Jim Eshelman]

I hadn't said anything yet about current factors in your chart. You've had some changes cooking!

Most importantly, Uranus is currently transiting conjunct your Jupiter and IC. You can find these discussed here:
http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=24& ... 1616#p1620

Also, Saturn has just crossed your Ascendant and Sun in the last several weeks. The Saturn transits are right above the Uranus transits on the same page.

A year or two ago, Neptune opposed your Moon and squared your Pluto. This may be when the empathy - virtual telepathy! - opened up. Neptune to Moon sensitizes to an extreme. It probably wasn't a particularly pleasant time, as your psyche opened itself to feel and respond to everything imaginable inside and outside of you at a very intensified level.

Jupiter is teasing your Venus and Mars right now - will get close-but-not-there before retrograding, then will come back across them later in the year. You may be feeling the tease of those aspects "almost getting there," and then moving into a more complex dance.

[Soft Alpaca]

Thanks Jim and my emotions did open a few years ago!

[Soft Alpaca]

I am fairly level headed and independent always have been. I know that my chart doesn't exactly speak for a soft side. Moon-Pluto Angler Mercury and Jupiter and Sun are fairly agressive. Again I don't know how much credit to give to any sign but Scorpio Aries and Saggitarius are angler and do protrude. I'd say I'm wild and deep whatever that comes from in my chart is unknown to me and I'm searching for it.

[Soft Alpaca]

Just a random question what would be some new hobbies to look in to biased on my chart?

[Soft Alpaca]

Sag is shallow, as in I believe the elitist nature of Saggitarius is a weak impersonal way of living. Saggitarius seems surface focused and doesn't seem to care about what's underneath as is Leo (because it's good plated). Then why would I hate this if I have both Saggitarius and Leo energy?

[Jim Eshelman]

Sag is shallow, as in I believe the elitist nature of Saggitarius is a weak impersonal way of living. Saggitarius seems surface focused and doesn't seem to care about what's underneath as is Leo (because it's good plated). Then why would I hate this if I have both Saggitarius and Leo energy?

Thanks for clarifying terms

The things you isolate about Sagittarius relate especially to its Jupiter quality. Jupiter is one of the social planets, operating particularly in terms of the larger communal setting outside of itself. You believe that its "elitist nature... is a weak impersonal way of living." I know your main question above is why you hate this kind of thing so much, and I'll wander back there; but first, if you don't mind, I want to wander around these words a bit.

I think I understand your sentence completely except for one word. I don't understand "impersonal," since that usually means exactly the opposite of the fundamentally social (connecting to others either individually or part of larger social set) nature of Jupiter. I wonder if you mean it rather literally, as "there doesn't seem to be a real person under there"?

But the part that is clear is that you hold Sagittarian elitism to be a weak way of living. I suspect (from previous conversations, and your chart) that what you are missing is (let me make up words for this) some sort of existential gravitas, some gripping I-Thou existential and profound experience of someone standing as themselves and no one else. Am I anywhere in the ball park? Or do you mean something else?

Do you consider the following people to be weak and without a center? Beethoven, Pope Francis, Paramansa Yogananda, Swami Vivekananda, Steven Spielberg, Joan Baez, Elvis Presley, David Bowie, Steven Hawking, Johannes Kepler, Sir Isaac Newton, Richard Nixon? These are all Sagittarians (with diverse Moon signs and other chart elements).

Would you say these people were "surface focused and doesn't seem to care about what's underneath"? I have a hard time seeing most of them that way. (Oh, and one can be "surface focused" and STILL care a great deal about what's underneath. I've made that mistake before. My Aquarius Moon reflexively thinks anything or anyone popular has to be distrusted first, even if I find something valuable about it later. To me, "popular" is a derogatory word, a smear, an insult, a supercilious shallow thing. It took me most of a life time to realize that there are some really cool, deep people that also happen to be popular, and there are popular ideas and fads that I end up valuing - though usually after the rest of contemporary culture has moved on to something else ) - Something can be gold-plated because somebody understands real value and the power of symbols, not just because they are into external appearances.

My goal is to understand you from a combination of your chart and your own vision of yourself. It seems to me that you see yourself standing at odds with historical society (culture, legacy, heritage, and those who support and defend or further it), and that this comes from abuse you have experienced and how you see "agents" of these ideas treating you, other people, and the world in general. Is that more or less correct?

If that (or something similar) is the case, then (to address your question), I see four reasons you hate it so much.

Reason 1: You've suffered abuse. It's natural to feel negative about (even hatred toward) what has abused us. That requires some working through. (It also can be fuel and motivation for what we take up as our own contribution.) It may need time, need therapy, need you to take affirmative action to make change, or something else. One does need to move through these things (not around them or away from them), without neglecting them.

Reason 2: Your Moon-Pluto square. All the dominant, big things about your chart co-exist in you, but it's as if you're taking an either-or path through the pieces of yourself (Moon-Pluto vs. Sagittarius). Moon-Pluto, BTW, being ,lunar is also an adaptive response mechanism to things you have experienced - façade in the same way you experience your Leo Moon-sign as a façade - which may be a hard thing for you to accept since it probably feels like the deepest, most-real thing about you; it's just another piece of the puzzle, though. - What is true is that you are a Sagittarian with an angular Jupiter AND that you have an exact Moon-Pluto square. Even though these seem utterly unlike each other, the more complicated, authentic truth is that they are BOTH part of you. There is a mystery (yours to find!) in which these, and the other primary parts of your chart, all coexist and make sense together. - It's natural to not have this all sorted out when you are still young, and to be on a quest to figure it out when you were born at sunrise.

Reason 3: You're young. It's quite normal for people in their late teens to stand against society. You're old enough to see the flaws, yet you haven't yet had your shot to do anything about it, to contribute to it. It's one of the coolest things about the human race that every generation has a chance to do better than the ones that came before them, and you're the kind of person who probably will take on that mission.

In this is a key: All that Sagittarian "old" stuff - culture, legacy, heritage - is evolving. These things are established in the sense of being continuous back to the dawn of humanity, yet still evolving with every breath and action. You sound like you think these are dead things. Instead, culture is something you have the chance to help shape and evolve for the rest of your life. What's distinctly Sagittarian about this, I think, is the continuity - drawing on everything that has come before us to improve it and move it forward.

Reason 4: Not really a reason, but kind of a synthesis of all the above. You see stuff seriously wrong, and you seem to be in more of a "tear it all down, blow it all up, junk it" stage than a "we can make this a whole lot better!" stage. That's natural to Moon-Pluto, to youth, and certainly to the pain you've come through.

But underneath it all, I bet even "tear it all down, blow it all up, junk it" is followed by the idea, "We can surely do better!" If so... then that's the most Sagittarian thing of all.

[Soft Alpaca]

Yes the blow it all up, someone has to make the ashes so things cam be remade, however I'm content with just making the ashes if that makes sense. I am very existential again I'm a pantheist I study astrology and religion amongst other things like culture and magic etc. However I believe the traits that are given to Saggitarius aren't fully grasping what Saggitarius is if that makes sense. I'm trying to burn those traits down because even I think you can come up with a better description of Saggitarius, I don't have faith in myself to do that. Society is inherently impersonal Jim, the whole point if society is to put the individual aside for the whole. I find this shallow especially because normally a group of individuals dictates the norms of society, that group if people is typically an elitist group. I tend to remove myself from society because I can't burn down all these groups. I think too that Mars is missed in the description of me, I seriously do believe it's Mars that rules Pluto because of the sign Pluto is in and it gives Pluto the ability to take more action in my life (along with Pluto selecting the Moon), and Mars itself I don't believe is a tool that the Sun has control over in my chart but rather Mars has a separate tool box, including of course Scorpio and Carpicorn and the planets in those signs. I'm glad to be ruled by Mars and Pluto and I embrace change but the style of living is much more natural to me than that of the Sun and Jupiter. Also I think that astrology needs some cases where people are ruled by Signs and Planets that don't belong to the Sun, because there will always be flaws in any system that actually works (if astrology was 100 percent perfect the whole integrity of it would be ruined because nothing that actually works functions at 100%).

[Veronica]

Just a random question what would be some new hobbies to look in to biased on my chart?

Your venus is in scorpio so I would think that your passions run there and that you may already have a hobby that you should devote more focus to.
Hobbies are things we do that we enjoy and have passion for, things that our being naturally seek out to give us a sense of peace, belonging, connectedness, and individuality.

You seem to be interested in astrology and mysticism.
You also have some nice mars energy which leads to action.
if I had to gut guess on something that I thought you would be interested in delving deep into, I would suggest Yoga, martial arts, TaChi, belly dance, kick boxing or a good ol Sag. archery.

[Soft Alpaca]

Funny because I'm going to start fighting Mauy Thai hopefully in a few months. I have done archery again I don't like the formality of the conditions so it's just free shooting. I do partake in many mystical things which is ironic because I'm inherently skeptical and doubt everything.

[Veronica]

Funny because I'm going to start fighting Mauy Thai hopefully in a few months. I have done archery again I don't like the formality of the conditions so it's just free shooting. I do partake in many mystical things which is ironic because I'm inherently skeptical and doubt everything.

I don't like formality either. Try doing it this way if you want a challenge
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gi ... ORM=VRDGAR

I also do not think it is ironic that you have an interest in mystical things but adhere to skeptism and doubt. In fact I think that in order to "partake" in mysticism one has to be skeptical. people who are not skeptics ingest force feed cultural baloney, while a person with an open yet skeptical mind seem to be the ones to test the mystical depths.

no time like the present. there are tons of educational training videos on youtube for any hobby you might want to delve into.

[Soft Alpaca]

I find it interesting that you pull mysticism out of my chart, one which people would normal associate politics or acting (performing and climbing the social ladder essentially as politicians too are merely performers). Im glad you do however as this performing although fairly easy for me at times, is not something I'm interested in even vaguely. I prefer the challenge. I also like talking to you luminary Scorpio folk, although my Scorpio sign does not contain a luminary the only planet in hard aspect to a luminary lies there, as does some personal planets and my elevated Mars raises the energy of the sign too. Curious as to what the degree of your Scorpio luminary is or the other planets there as I may have a personal or elevated body conjunct one of yours. For me your easy to comprehend at least on the communication level.

[Veronica]

I find it interesting that you pull mysticism out of my chart, one which people would normal associate politics or acting (performing and climbing the social ladder essentially as politicians too are merely performers). Im glad you do however as this performing although fairly easy for me at times, is not something I'm interested in even vaguely. I prefer the challenge. I also like talking to you luminary Scorpio folk, although my Scorpio sign does not contain a luminary the only planet in hard aspect to a luminary lies there, as does some personal planets and my elevated Mars raises the energy of the sign too. Curious as to what the degree of your Scorpio luminary is or the other planets there as I may have a personal or elevated body conjunct one of yours. For me your easy to comprehend at least on the communication level.

I didn't pull it out of your chart. I was going on what you said, you said you were interested in the occult/Chaos/Astrology ect.....I just lumped that under the term Mystic. Scorpios like occult things.

this is me
moon 7 degrees Scorpio
mars 22 " "
neptune 8 " "
jupiter 10 " "

Sun 5 degrees aquarius

I am glad that you find me easy to comprehend, I take care with my word choice to try to best articulate myself to avoid miscommunication. I find it pays off to stop and think, and write and rewrite and revise a post so that I effectively relay what ever it was I wanted to say.

[Soft Alpaca]

Interesting... our charts dance with each other my Venus is at 0 degrees your Moon, Jupiter, and Neptune are at 7, 10, and 8 degrees. Then I have Pluto and Chrion at 16 degrees, you have Mars at 22 degrees, and I have Mercury at 29 degrees. It's like one of those old fashioned ball dances where the people never touch each other, rather there is about of foot of space in between their hands and it's like some force is magicly keeping them together. This of course being highly personal Scorpio constellations

Your Mars textiles my Uranus with a widish orb (4), your Jupiter exactly sextiles my SN ( Moon and Neptune sextile it too with 2-3 orb), and your Neptune exactly sextiles my Neptune (with the Moon and Jupiter being sextiles at 2-3 orb). (This is my Capricorn energy). Ironicly my Mars is in this sign at 29 degrees just out of reach of yours. I think too that Mars being in Capricorn boosts the Scorpio energy of my chart (note that it's exalted and it aspects two planets in the sign that it ruled those aspects are; Mercury in an exact sextile, and Venus in a one orb square. Both Mercury and Scorpio at the highest and lowest degrees if Scorpio and in my chart.)

Your chart is very interesting, Scorpio just kind of over bares your sun in seemingly a very ominous manor. Plus your sun is not in a happy place. Verses my chart where Scorpio takes over through elevation of it's ruler and because of how much of my personality it effects. Jim will tell you im a dominant Saggitarius because of my sag Sun being angular, my moon being in Leo, and my Jupiter being angular in Aries. I would argue the same case if I saw this in another chart, however with Pluto squaring my moon, making this normally impersonal planet very personal (as it is the only hard aspect as in square/conj./opp. to any luminary in my chart, it and the sign it's in take a heavy presence in my way of being). Jim tells me this Pluto moon is why I want to burn everything to the ground, Pluto wants space to breath (again its in Scorpio we need our elbow room) and wants people to let it alone. I could say that very often I need space to breath and want certain people to leave me be or else I kind of go off the deep end.

You articulate very well, I wish I could, but rather I just have a way with people (partially due to the warmth of Leo and my Libra MC and partially due to the sort of magmitism and mystery of my capy Mars and Scorpio energy). I can also say Mercury is almost angular in my chart, I was almost mute as a child as per many Scorpios who don't like to speak but as I've grown I've become the Scorpio who will tell you their opinion either you like it or not. I can say violence is part of a mask as is the entirety of both my luminaries (which is why I don't relate with them past a surface value and why I wouldn't call either of the signs they are in "my sign"). However there is a violence that I do arbor against society (ironic again with my Sun and Moon being so social) and violence that I will exert on anyone who harms or attempts to harm the things I love. I mean I'll pipe you down and might set something of yours on fire if you hurt my people. My Saggitarius and Leo energy can be possessive as can the Capricorn energy but I think the extremes of what I do are pure mix of Mars Scorpio and Pluto.

Just a note that you speak with depth and I thoroughly enjoy it, but for whatever reason it feels like you speak from exhaustion (not from the lack of sleep but from the wear and tear of the universe)...

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

A year or two ago, Neptune opposed your Moon and squared your Pluto. This may be when the empathy - virtual telepathy! - opened up. Neptune to Moon sensitizes to an extreme. It probably wasn't a particularly pleasant time, as your psyche opened itself to feel and respond to everything imaginable inside and outside of you at a very intensified level.

Jim, if Scarlet still living in Carlisle, she is still experiencing this t. Neptune 180 n. Moon big time. Her current SSR (Carlisle) bi-wheeled with Natal link below.

https://imgur.com/a/wOrwI

[Soft Alpaca]

I'm still living in the area.

[SteveS]

Hi Scarlet, IMO, you would probably learn a-lot about the main 'Principles' for Sidereal Astrology by studying Jim's book 'Interpreting Solar Returns (ISR),' with your current SSR. Your current Sidereal Solar Return (SSR) is dynamically timed with the main planetary theme Neptune on SSR Dsc tightly opposing Natal Moon partile cnj SSR Asc. According to Jim's book you will mainly "react" to this Neptune SSR and your immediate environment(s) through your partile Natal Moon aspects with Natal Saturn and Pluto, with Natal Moon-Pluto strongly flowing through the psyche related to most situations. I have been very busy lately and have just recently absorbed some of your posts about your opinions with your Natal Chart, and see a-lot from your posts reflecting your current SSR, imo. Jim would be able to guide you best with a better understanding of your current SSR, which may help you understand many of the astro currents flowing through you. Take care & welcome to the forum--hope you learn some good Sidereal Astrology.

[Soft Alpaca]

Thanks. I can't honestly say why I get so heated other than it's my personality (Mars on Capricorn build up maybe). Everything In my life has always been coloredby Pluto and I think by the sign it's in or something very similar in energy (possibly Mars) in trying to figure out why the descriptions for the Scorpio energy describe me so accurately and why my Sun/Moon descriptions seem less valid. It may be my youth it may be my Pluto in tandem with my Mars (disacosiate and challenge the status quo in my chart). I've been trying to find this for only a year or so now but still am inconclusive.

[Soft Alpaca]

I understand this sequencing. However civilized isn't who I am. Have I been tamed a little but not by choice. The civilized center is more like whipped horse. Jim is right in this transformation but wrong in assuming everyone is this refined knowledged being here to help planet the seeds of society when in fact it was the very thing that has harmed me. Now maybe this is where one could come in and be the hero to change society, however this is not how I cope. I ignore society, I can't run around saving things because then we have a system full of dependent beings which is worse than the system before. I don't see Capricorn as the old goat it's more like the thing that blows the crop of what Saggitarius has planted, not necessarily using it for it's original intended purpose either.

[Soft Alpaca]

I also think Saggitarius is shallow in that the statement of training animals into people is a over optimistic and immature thought. People are animals through and through we should learn how to keep that alive because when the going gets tough the petty civilized skin that chokes the instinct out of many people is useless and many forget how to take this skin off.

Edit: It isn't a fansination it's an obessession and I run circles with (ligitmate) Scorpio zodiac groups, this for of astrology is lacking the cyclical nature of Scorpio. Saggitarius becomes civilized in breaking this cycle.

[Jim Eshelman]

Poser.

[Soft Alpaca]

I make it very clear that my Sun is not in Scorpio. They don't seem to care, call me what you will.

[Soft Alpaca]

Birth time update. I talked to my father he said I was born about 7 am. Not sure if this changes much at all.

[Jim Eshelman]

Birth time update. I talked to my father he said I was born about 7 am. Not sure if this changes much at all.

Thank you., Yes, it does: It shifts the angularity pattern. You still have Sagittarius-Leo luminaries, but they aren't so strongly reinforced by Sun and Jupiter being the most angular planets. (You also lose that Sun-Uranus PVP square we were discussing a day or two ago.)

Now your angularities are:
Merury 2°12' after (above) Asc
Sun 6°32' before Asc
Jupiter 8°03' before IC

I'll work up a new list of interpretive elements for you and post it here.

[Soft Alpaca]

7 am isn't probably right to the exact minute but I feel like it's more accurate. Angular mercury makes so much sense. I apologize again Jim I'm sorry I upset you. Stirng the pot isn't about making people hurt, it's just how I see what goes on underneath.

[Jim Eshelman]

ANGULAR PLANETS
Angular Mercury (Asc 2°12')
Alert, attentive, observant, strategic, analytic. Mentally sharp, hard to fool (knows more about you than you think). Little emotional affect, hard to read. Nervous (anxiety? worry? touchy?). Easily bored without regular mental stimulation. Good at precise, detailed work; naturals at handling business. Curiosity drives sexual choices as much as any other factor.

Mercury Sextile Mars (0°05')
Quite a charmer with wit & edgy humor. Mind is quick, creative, strategic, opinionated. Independent thinker, enjoys argument, critical, nervous. Vulnerability to addiction.

Mercury Trine Jupiter (0°55')
Intelligent; seems well-read, educated. Loves ideas & learning, comfortable with words. Good-tempered, kind. Optimistic. Business potential (from luck more than skill?). Always awaiting the next opportunity or break.

Mercury in Scorpio
Outspoken, opinionated, candid. Enjoys mental/verbal competition (arguments or humor). Needs intellectual freedom, resists mainstream ideas & institutional thinking. Mind sharp, strong, strategic (fault-finding). Strains nervous system (nervous irritation). Good singing voice.

MOON
Moon in Leo
Emotions intertwined with pride. Strong, noble, proud, natural leader, courageous, confident, practical, effective, indomitable. Dramatic; seldom pretentious. Gregarious (court of friends & admirers). Entertainer. Discriminating in romance. Needs warm, affectionate interaction; may retain aloof mask. Business over sentiment.

Moon in 8th House
Self-doubts, insecure (over-compensatingly brazen, aggressive, combative). Fascinated by death (self-destructive, taunts danger). Emotional distress, “victim complex,” motivated (or driven!) by deep psychological forces.

Moon Square Pluto (1°17')
Bold & forthright, questioning & challenging, maverick & alien; independent, “marching to a different drummer,” resisting authority. Avoids habitual conformity (rebellious?); resists conventional conditioning and being made to concur with others’ values and codes. Restless, unwilling to be still for long, can uproot or take to the road on little notice. Deeply inquiring into existential mysteries, often igniting remarkable intuitive insights.

Moon Sesqui-square Jupiter (0°06')
Ambitious, desires success. Social elitism (feigned superiority, aristocratic conceit). Drawn to quality: desires the best. Good-humored, entertaining, kind, generous (natural host). Strong beliefs (religious or patriotic intensity, morality, judgment).

Moon Trine Saturn (0°32')
Hardworking, self-driving. Encourages others. Usually emotionally reserved, private. Resistant to others’ rules & control (passive-aggressive response). Parent issues persist(nourishment-deprivation). Judgmental, intolerant, distrustful. Can be pessimistic, feeling inferior, anxious, depressed.

SUN
Sun in Sagittarius
Social elitism, aristocracy. Excellence, quality. Higher & higher, ambition, travel. Judges self & others, may fail own standards. Right-wrong, reward-punishment, belief- & values-driven. Respects continuity of culture & social rituals. Preserves status quo, heritage, myth when possible. Loyal to tribe. Complacent affection.

Sun in 1st House
Proud, authoritative, non-reciprocal. Strong and enthusiastic self-projection to environment. Sense of goal or direction. Vitality.

MARS
Mars in Capricorn
Courage, stands own ground (prefers action to complaining). Confrontational, discontent: creates unnecessary struggle & conflict (over authority, control, father issues). Private, secretive, self-veiling. (Mysterious façade, or deceptive; to avoid control, look good, or not be found out). Much unresolved shadow; vulnerable to dark moods; carries past darkness around. Sexually forthright (strong needs + practicality).

Venus Square Mars (1°27')
Passion (in all senses), feels powerfully about things. Strong sexual passions mature early, continue late, rarely encumbered by too many conditions. Broadly fun-loving, socially active, loves romance: interesting, likable, sociable, horny people. Relationships, often picked for ferocity, easily hit conflict, strain, or burnout. (More likely homicidal than suicidal.)

Mars Sextile Jupiter (1°00')
Playful, strong, competitive, enterprising. Zest, vitality, enthusiasm, courage, confidence. Sexually lusty, eager, popular, on the hunt. Generous or extravagant (money flees). Bold with beliefs, evangelical (enthusiasts, missionaries, barnstormers).

VENUS
Venus in Scorpio
Passionate, highly-sexed (strong emotions; moody). Friendly, outgoing, likeable. Affections impulsive & adventurous: enters intimate relationships quickly (but easily rebuffed). Social outsiders early in life, less so in maturity. Impression of sizeable secrets. Need feeling of freedom in romance; not inherently monogamous.

[Soft Alpaca]

Thanks Jim. Still very Saggitarius-leo however it's much more personal. I think to that I had a pre conceived nature of those signs, I never saw myself as the gut who was sunny and upbeat (I am but much more moody). I didn't realize that Sag-Leo wasn't always that happy.

[Soft Alpaca]

Reading on Saggitarius and Jupiter, I found it interesting that the traits can be applied to me in a diffrent manor. So I am inherently lucky, with plenty of bad luck, my father bailed on my my mom and his wedding, my mom became an addict I had a step father who was in and out of prison for drugs. My mom couldn't be dependent so she brought men into our lives most of whom were abusive and I had to fight to survive. ( My step-dad parents did help but they weren't just luck, it was a a moral obligation for them.) I live with my step dad parents now, and I asked his mom (who is a Pisces both sidereal and topically which is cool) if i was happy go lucky "no" was the answer and I didn't even question it because I realise that I'm the opposite.

In reading through Jupiter and Saggitarius myths and story's It's dawned on me how awkward I am compared to the traits if Jupiter. I prefer quality of quantity, inward over out wars, negative over positive, change over reformation. Is there a aspect that will make another planets qualities act in a polar manor? I'm not very sporty outwardly but I like to self compete (not to the way that I never reach a goal but almost like a war between 9ld and new). I actually love expansion (but mostly inward expansion).

This is a little out there, but can there be Saggitarius that are like Gemini (two faced) the animal or the man...

[Jim Eshelman]

Interesting you ask that last question. Babylonian pictures of Sagittarius show a head with one (human) face looking forward and another (animal) face looking back. Based on this and the centaur pictures, since the time Richard Nixon was president I've been known to claim that Sagittarius (as you can see in its illustrations) is two-faced and a horse's aff

[Soft Alpaca]

One thing I actually liked about my tropical chart was the inarguable power Aquarius held in my chart, also because houses hold more importance in tropical astrology my first house held only two planets and if the Sun was in the first house it would actually take on qualities of the other planet. Interestingly enough it explained the intuition of my chart at personality (my attraction to psychic things such as astrology. This however i know is a fantasy.

I see Neptune as more psychic than Aquarius or Uranus now. I was looking at my chart and I see only one unaspected planet, Neptune (not using the lunar nodes). I also found out it's the next most angular planet in my chart roughly 5 degrees away from the anti-vertex.

Would this make it the next most angular planet or no?

[Soft Alpaca]

Interesting jim. I think I found a part of my chart that I may need to look into that I've been missing, Neptune seems to be the only unsaoect planet and with the time shift it's 5 degrees away from the anti-vertex.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yeah, Neptune you ain't

Regarding your question on the Vertex: First, it would be wrong to characterize a planet on Vertex axis as "angular" (mostly for technical definition reasons).

Second, when Vertex axis has seemed to be saying something, it's orb has never gone more than 3°. I'd use that as a hard maximum while experimenting.

Third, I'm becoming increasingly disenchanted with Vertex per se. We've discovered a category of mundane aspect between planets mundanely on the Vertex axis and planets on the horizon and meridian, but the fact of being ON the Vertex-Antivertex is looking less and less like it means anything. In fact, in mundane astrology, we now know for sure that it doesn't mean anything, and the matter hasn't been revisited for natal charts. At the moment, I'm remaining very cautious about what always seemed a very minor, subtle effect at best.

Fourth, your second and third most angular planets are Jupiter and Sun, so we can go back to talking about how extremely Sagittarius and Leo you are <vbseg>.

You really just don't have much Neptune in you. We have to dig for little blips of it. For example, you have a few midpoints that involve Neptune and a personal point. But then, so does almost everybody

[Soft Alpaca]

If Neptune is sensitivity (not just Inward but outward too) then yes I have none of that. However im about as positive and happy go lucky as eor from whiney the pooh. Ironicly sag is this little ray of sunshine, so is leo. I like the Sun but not like that my pitch black room that I use black lights in will tell u the a similar story. I dint like sparkles or bright colors, they hurt my eyes. And stories with over hapoy endings make me sad because there just lies. You cant see the star stars withiut darkness, and there is a lot more darkness than stars. It's just all these happy things make me cringe and die a little inside.

[Jim Eshelman]

Where are you getting all this happiness and rainbows for Sagittarius? (I thought we'd been through this and you admitted you were mistaken in this.) Just go bac to the famous Sag trio of Richard Nixon, Howard Hughes, and Elvis Presley to see how happiness and rainbows they are not!

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Yeah, Leo Moons aren't exactly sparkly bright colors people either. Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking, Madonna, Richard Branson.

[Soft Alpaca]

Noted. These people are of large political influence and social influence what else do Saggitarius and Leo do? What happens if I don't care to be well known or climb much of any ladder...

[Jim Eshelman]

It's easy not to get well known.

I'm not sure what kind of answer you want. Are you asking about career, or something else?

[Soft Alpaca]

I'm probably going to be a chef. Maybe do some art on the side (writing, drawing, painiting) all under different aliases of course.