Combustion - real or not real?

[Arena]

Have just been wondering about this thing called combustion in astrology. The thing is that of course planets are not really that near the Sun even though they are labelled as combust. Planets are considered combust when within 8° from the Sun.

- A planet is combust when it is in conjunction with the Sun and therefore hidden from sight by the light of the Sun. Traditionally this is a serious debility and implies that the planet is weakened or restricted in power. However, if the planet is within 17 minutes of the Sun, it is termed Cazimi - in the heart of the Sun - and considered strengthened by the union.
(Skyscript)

This term is perhaps used more in horary astrology, rather than in natal astrology.

I would like to ask you what is your experience of combustion in natal astrology? I looked into a few charts and I don't see any convincing evidence/points that combustion is actually debilitating in natal astrology. It seems much more like a strength to a planet to be conjunct the Sun.

Examples of people with the benefics in combust conjunction to the Sun:

Sun-Jup conjunction:
Adele, Brooke Shields, Vanessa Williams, Eddy Izzard, John Campbell, Fraz Kafka, Kanye West, Mick Jagger, Gerard, Depardieu, Bob Dylan, Woody Allen, Mike Tyson.

Sun-Ven conjunction:
Leonardo DiCaprio, Oprah Winfrey, Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher, Jim Carrey, Jimi Hendrix, Robert Downey Jr., Ellen Degeneres, Khloe Kardashian, Pink, Daniel Day-Lewis, Tori Amos.

None of these people seem to have a debilitated benefic by being combust, or in conjunction with the Sun - but rather the opposite. Great successes with Jupiter and Venus.

[mikestar13]

Cyril Fagan wrote quite a bit about the corruption of natal astrology by horary techniques, I don't recall if he specifically mentioned "combust", but he surely would have classified it that way. Fagan said that the systems need to be kept entirely separate, Jim of of the opinion that Horary is not valid (as astrology, as astromancy, that is divination, it is just as valid as Tarot cards, crystal gazing, etc.) Some discussion may be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1843.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Way back when, while still using the tropical zodiac, I ran into the combust planet idea. I checked all the charts I had of people I knew well. I didn't find anything and have never seen anything in it since. Like others here, I classify it as horary (spit).

[Jim Eshelman]

Way back when, while still using the tropical zodiac, I ran into the combust planet idea. I checked all the charts I had of people I knew well. I didn't find anything and have never seen anything in it since. Like others here, I classify it as horary (spit).

Almost exactly my path: The obvious challenge is Mercury. The only major aspect Mercury can have with Sun is a conjunction. ("Combust" boils down to "conjunct Sun.") The question came down to, "If Mercury is conjunct Sun, is Mercury "destroyed" - blown away in the chart - or is this a really strongly mercurial person?"

It was an easy call: Sun conjunct Mercury people are keenly mercurial people. They clearly have their information needs tightly linked to their ego-center. Sun and Mercury natures overlap easily in a business context so, in contrast to other mercury aspects, I usually think of Sun-Mercury first in terms of business-commerce skills (resourcefulness, knack for organization, general business skills). Their ideas and words are tightly bound to their egos, and have other unsurprising traits like intellectual pride and stubbornness, effective self-expression, etc.

One form the older books took the Mercury combust idea was that it led to identity (the rational mind "crashes and burns"). Though you can find an occasional example of this, it isn't ordinary. I do think, though, that the over-wrought intellect is one expression of Sun-Mercury. but not a common one. As early as Grant Lewi we find an assertion that Sun-Mercury has quite the opposite, an especially stern grip on reality - what he called a "hitching post to normalcy" that protects their minds. While there does seem to be something remarkably "normal" about Sun-Mercury people. I eventually decided, though, that Sun-Mercury doesn't ensure sanity, it does give a really strong need to identify oneself with rationality, to affirm one’s sanity and reasonableness and get others to agree about it.

In general, the Mercury nature is energized, vitalized, closely identified with the ego, a solid feature of the character - just as we'd expect.

[Arena]

Yes, it is as I thought... the conjunction to the Sun seems to rather strengthen/emphasize the planet rather than destroy or debilitate it.

Not sure why this has stuck to horary ... but horary astrology when you've mastered it can work very effectively.