Mars in Capricorn sign project

[Jim Eshelman]

Welcome to the Mars in Capricorn discussions project, which will run January 14 - February 13, 2019 (and then will remain around in case people want to revisit it in the future). Please gather your list of Mars in Capricorn people (especially those you know personally) and join us.

Here are Mars in Capricorn interpretive resources on the forum:
Primary section: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=32#p124
Garth Allen: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33#p139

Mars in Capricorn has similarities to and differences from Sun in Capricorn. To help discern these similarities and differences, here is a link to the earlier Sun in Capricorn project. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=156

My current concise summary of Mars in Capricorn (always subject to change) reads:

Courage, stands own ground (prefers action to complaining). Confrontational, discontent: creates unnecessary struggle & conflict (over authority, control, father issues). Private, secretive, self-veiling. (Mysterious façade, or deceptive; to avoid control, look good, or not be found out). Much unresolved shadow; vulnerable to dark moods; carries past darkness around. Sexually forthright (strong needs + practicality).

[Jim Eshelman]

Indeed, do Mars Signs. Post if any material where fathers of Sidereal Astrology did Mars Signs. Explanations WHY? Mars Signs are 3rd in importance behind Sun & Moon Signs.

Though we are still a week and a half from starting this Mars-sign project, I thought I'd take this space to answer Steve' questions above. They seemed good kick-off questions.

1. None of the Sidereal pioneers placed any special focus on Mars' natal constellation or made more than passing occasional mention of it. (As a 'second tier' early Siderealist, Carl Stahl included non-luminary sign interpretations in one of his books IIRC.)

2. The discovery is partly mine and partly Anna-Kria King's. As usual, it arose from empirical evidence, not theory. There were two primary findings.

2A. First, in my breaking down of all the Gauquelin character trait data for Sidereal sign placements of Sun, Moon, eight planets, Midheaven, and Ascendant, I noticed that the Mars placements had scores (measurement of statistical significance) at a level only Sun or Moon matched, and that the symbolism was usually quite pure. This inferred that the Mars sign placements were likely very descriptive of people.

2B. Second, after I mentioned this to Anna-Kria, she added a section to her astrological notebook to catalogue Mars signs of people she knew. From this, she quickly came to the conclusion that people Sun-Mars sign pairs in common (e.g., Sun in Virgo & Mars in Sagittarius, like me) has far more in common that people in her Sun-Moon sign-pair lists. These similarities included character, occupation, general demeanor ("their fundamental energy"), and often physical appearance. (I think she probably mentioned this in her book, The Goldmine in Your Files.)

3. Observing that this importance of Mars in character description, vocation, and more is true, I naturally turned my thoughts to the why question Steve raised. I think it's pretty simple: After luminaries, the only planets that would be expected to have individual sign-placement importance would be the fast planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars). Of these, Mercury-signs and Venus-signs are highly dependent on Sun's position, i.e., Mercury can only be in the Sun-sign or one sign on either side. Mars is the first planet that, for a given Sun-sign, can be in any other sign. Additionally, Mars' nature is assertive, action-driven - it's an egoic planet in a similar way to how Sun is an egoic planet. (Tropical astrologers who equate Mars, Aries, and the 1st house as three versions of one principle routinely treat Mars as "just another Ascendant" and, while I think their theory is wrong, I don't think their observations of its importance are wrong.)

[Hannah]

I think of Chuck Palahniuk, he has Mars in Capricorn, and writes mainly about rebellious characters breaking free of societal confines in devious and oftentimes humorous ways. His sun is in aquarius & moon in virgo.

In an interview, he said that many people voiced to him difficult to talk about, disturbing stories that they were carrying from their past. That this was because he made them feel comfortable by giving voice to the thoughts and experiences that are looked down upon by society. Topics like aggression, sex, death, and the like... He seems to bring the fringe experiences of "sane" society up to the surface, to the benefit of society through catharsis?

So, this makes me think about the Mars sign connection to vocation... maybe it is the channel the individual works through to effect the physical environment?

[Soft Alpaca]

Hannah I like that thought process. If it is the channel I'm thinking it's rather built in and innate as well.

For me a Mars Capricorn type I don't purposely Mars capricorn things, when I hide or put on a mask or do something wild it's like a physical reflex not a thought out process.

If it is the channel to connect to ones physical surroundings then it makes sense for Mars Capricorn to be extremely radical in that connection. Mars is sitting in the most Martial place in the sign allowing an easy flow to connect physically to ones surroundings [where as maybe a Libra Mars or Virgo Mars may have trouble in the physical realm needing material items or a slew of things to Express them being here physically].
Mars capricorns including but besides me I know all channel their physicality through sexual activity and very naturally so.

[Hannah]

Huh yeah, the way I put it made it seem like the placement of Mars in the constellations is independent from the individual, something that can be influenced rather than expressed naturally. I’m still getting the hang of that part.

A friend told me that she has observed Capricorns in her life having an easy time materializing things in the physical plane. And maybe this applies especially to Mars in Capricorn people? And maybe similarly other Mars/Saturn placements like Scorpio and Libra? Or maybe it has something to do with rims?

My Mars is in Capricorn and I consider myself as highly sexed, but I don’t root it physically with many people. I have had a few intimate partners that I have been all in with. My Venus is also in Capricorn, Mars/Uranus/Venus conjunct in a sextile with Pluto.

But I am very interested in the idea of sex, the experience of the orgasm, the loss of self in a partner... and the loss of self-hood in other practices, like psychedelics, group dancing, intoxication, frolicking in the forest around a fire, and other satyr/nymph-like activities.

[Hannah]

I also lol’d at this: “7. Makes up for lack of sentiment in Mechanical poetry.” That is so true for me. My poetry is explanatory and mechanical.

For example here are some lyrics I wrote:

I can travel down
into the temples underground,
Then shoot across the sky
into the universe of night.
And penetrate into the skin,
Into the atom deep within,
This place of gold, this place of red,
The world of the undead.

I have come straight from the bottom,
To tell of the end.
And dissension of our hopeless friends.
In this place of gold, this place of red.

My paintings are like this as well.. mechanical, formulaic, tending to the realist side.

[Soft Alpaca]

First off that poem was hauntingly delightfully. To pentitrate the skin to me the most orgasm worthy line. Also it's not that you specifically make it seem as Mars Capricorns are concisouly acting a certain way. Rather It is when Jim wrote about capricorn Mars and privacy that made it sound like a conscious act we do, and I'd argue that at the root it is most definitely not a conscious choice.

Also I have a Venus and Mercury in Scorpio both also aspecting Mars-Uranus (that Venus in Scorpio has a reputation for mulitple partners, I'd argue especially in sex). Mercury in a Mars placement like I have also adds a sense of heavy nerve in an individual (leading to release through bad habits such as drugs and sex, again pointing back to my Venus).
So the difference than your Mars/Uranus/Venus and mine is that my Venus is weaker (it may have a solar connection) but is is double down Mars/Uranus, where as your chart distributes the energy more evenly. With that said it's the Capricorn energy that I'd argue can connect deeper or at least as deep as Scorpio in sex.

Ps the satyr nymph thing also really hits home to me. Even with my Solar and Jupiter luminary/angular energy, Mars(with Uranus) energy is highly pure in my chart from its exalted place. Also here's a poem from me much more mantraic I guess..

I want a place where I can be free
Where I can take my skin off and be me
A for now that place is in the dark
The fire dancing is the only spark of light the eye may see
Deep inside the demons breast
Is a heart of vile and rot
But this heart of decay and death is beauty
Immortality is the greatest sin, the natural order is to end
Therefore everything divine is wicked in the soul and mind
And should wither to the wind

[Soft Alpaca]

I believe that this placement is a very distinct one and Mars being very Mars like here may make individuals with these traits easy to spot. In addition I've only met a few of us personally and we each have our different charts but I notice a lot of hung up agression (that's very animalistic when released). Now I know I have 2 personals in Scorpio as well as Aspecting Mars-Uranus [which aspect themselves], this makes me come across as aggressive when really I'm just quick to act, I can be very zen and I stride to (as per, Sun/Jupiter and Venus heavy in my chart), however sometimes we snap, like serial killer snap, me personal I loose conciousness as well as my Mars in capricorn friend when this happens.

[Hannah]

I was listening to an audiobook the other day, an author's (Haruki Murakami) memoir. He has Mars in Capricorn (with Sagittarius Sun & Taurus Moon)... he said something that made me wonder if it was connected at all to the Ma-Cap. He said that he has to learn by the act of doing something with his own hands, he has to struggle in his own body to understand whatever it is he is trying to understanding, in this case, he was explaining the three stages in his life of 1. Running a bar, 2. Becoming a writer, and 3. Running marathons.

I am similar, I am more of a kinesthetic learner and tend to take the solitary longer-route to understand things.

It makes sense to me that Mars/Capricorn energies working together might bring this about.

[Jim Eshelman]

The perception you describe (or, he describes) is essentially what Jung called the Sensation type, one that draws input from and relies on physical perception more than thinking, feeling, or intuition. It's primarily a product of so-called Fire Signs, so I anticipated that Haruki Murakami would (like you) have his Sun in Leo, Sagittarius, or Aries.

Born January 12, 1949, he does indeed have a Sagittarius Sun (which you said, but I somehow read past without consciously noticing).

[Hannah]

Hm, interesting! I'll sit with that some more. Thank you

[Soft Alpaca]

A theory here on this sign. Mars is exalted in this sign. It's at it's purest energy. Perhaps these individuals on the surface may appear more Martial than perhaps their chart actually contains.
Mars would be unique in this situation (say over Venus or Mercury) because of its ability to physically present itself to begin with.

I can put it like this as well, the Capricorn Mars I meet are comfortable with violence where as Scorpio Mars I know may be violent more frequently. This carries out in my own life physically, for example people think I'm going to hit them when I'm going in for a hug.

In my own chart besides perhaps Pluto I think every planet is either over powered or equal with planets it exchanges energy with. Thinking about it even more deeply how many planets are at a place where Mars has some influence (Pluto in Scorpio, Mercury-Jupiter-Venus aspecting it, Saturn in Aries then of course the two other outer planets in Capricorn).
That being said (and pardon as I dance around a fire high naked with a pie here) it's kind of like this power from behind. A puppet Master. While Jupiter, Pluto, and Uranus fight for control in my own chart Mars is just sitting their knowing that he is just a phone call away to take over in any situation.

I would argue that it would be interesting to see something about manipulation in the description of this sign. I also really think "Et tu Brute" would be more than appropriate (this describes power from behind, the pupet master, killing thy own father etc.)

[Soft Alpaca]

As for learning style (as someone who has both Leo and Sagittarius as well as this placement) im actually an auditory learner, follwed then by learning on my own, a need of autonomy in ones actions follows this theme.

In the author mentioned above it is clearly not just about doing it with his hands (like fire signs do) but doing it alone. "Running" a bar (not bartending), becoming a writer (if you didn't write it clearly its not your own work) and lastly running marathons (and id take a guess to say he practiced mostly alone). I see this distinctively in Capricorns in general.

[Jim Eshelman]

Mars in Capricorn examples from my Example Charts Catalogue:

• Pres. Woodrow Wilson, Czar Alexander I, Queen Elizabeth II, Pres. Charles De Gaulle, Sec. Condoleezza Rice, Gov. Bobby Jindal, Princess Mary, Rudolph Hess
• Joan of Arc, Jimmy Hoffa, Eleanor Smeal
• Harpo Marx, Jerry Lewis, Jim Backus, Eric Idle, John Cleese, John Belushi, Andy Kaufman, Woody Allen, Lily Tomlin, Valerie Harper, Chelsea Handler
• Connie Francis, Donna Summer, Adele, Dorothy Dandridge, Eartha Kitt, Esther Phillips, Grace Slick, Sheryl Crow, Jon Bon Jovi, vwill.I.am, Giuseppe Verdi
• Marlene Dietrich, Mia Farrow, Farrah Fawcett, Lynn Redgrave, Linda Lovelace, Liz Renay, Dakota Fanning, Haley Joel Osment, Mark Wahlberg, Rowena Jackson, Julie Taymor, Catherine Corsini, Wes Craven, Annie Horniman
• Leonardo da Vinci, Austin O. Spare, Washington Irving, Pearl Buck, Helen MacInnes
• Martin Frankel, Julian Assange, L. Ron Hubbard, Heidi Fleiss, Hugh Hefner, Christina Onassis, Bobby Fischer, Gen. George B. McClellan
• Albert Einstein, Louis Pasteur, Luther Burbank, Dian Fossey
• Lizzie Borden, Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray
• Florence Farr, Israel Regardie, Jeane Dixon, Robert Anton Wilson, Marsilio Ficino, Margaret Hone

There is a remarkable representation of COMEDY and comedic acting in this group. There are not so much Capricorn story-tellers in the literary sense (Pearl Buck and Washington Irving are the exceptions), but several film makers are on the list (a bit mingled with other categories and not at all in the same genres). There is a shortage of singers also, though the list is dominated by earthy, sex-charged women.

[Soft Alpaca]

Laugher by most is used as a mechanism to hide discomfort as much as it to lift spirits.

Further more I believe this to be the physical embodiment of the funniest people being the saddest. A representation of physical (Mars- the brain is a physical thing as well*) torture (capricorn) through what we know best; laugher.

Don't tell me Bruce Lee wasn't fucki$$ funny.

[Ethan FM]

I have Mars in Capricorn (6 degrees below ASC), and I feel like my energy tries to stay in a "coil of self-control," but is not always successful

-Ethan

[Soft Alpaca]

People often describe me as angry but diffusive. I think too it is not so much that but a redirection if energy to do work (Saturn). I got banned from my former job site I'm sure because I threatened to sue (and further stirred the pot thanks Eris), however in that slip up it reviled me being slapped was never officially reported correctly.

[Ethan FM]

People often describe me as angry but diffusive.

I've heard that too.

In the past I was often guilty of purposefully turning on the "spike-o-meter" when I wanted to be left alone, or was really angry/frustrated by something. Most people would definitely stay away. It was just this feeling of physically tensing up, and a sense of manifesting anger in a jagged aura-projection.

I've since practiced Tibetan Buddhism and have learned to let that anger go.

I still have occasional feelings of frustration and without thinking the "spike-o-meter" is triggered. It'll take me some time to realize it, reel it in, and apologize to anyone affected.

[Jim Eshelman]

I've finished the rewrite and polish on Mars in Capricorn. (I'm working my way through all of them rather briskly.) Your sharing on this thread was particularly generous, so I wanted to make sure you got to see the revised version. (Ignore the summary, I'm not rewriting those yet. Skip to the full bullet points.)

https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php? ... p=124#p124

[Soft Alpaca]

Ironically Buddhism aldo lead me to process-rational pantheism and the Dharma does help add a layer of non-religious steps or a set of tools that help with the bipolar anger flare ups.

Very refined Jim, btw.