My Sept 21 "outstanding incident" Mars-Saturn SLR

[SteveS]

We learned yesterday my wife has been diagnosed with Pulmonary Fibrosis Disease . It is not in crises stage. This was timed with my “outstanding incident” SLR Mars partile 135 angular SLR Saturn (chart link below). Also timed with t Saturn partile cnj my Natal IC. This diagnosis is not affecting my wife psychologically like it is me. She first must get with a Pulmonary specialist for a future plan.

https://ibb.co/tLCbWtm

[Jim Eshelman]

We learned yesterday my wife has been diagnosed with Pulmonary Fibrosis Disease . It is not in crises stage. This was timed with my “outstanding incident” SLR Mars partile 135 angular SLR Saturn (chart link below). Also timed with t Saturn partile cnj my Natal IC. This diagnosis is not affecting my wife psychologically like it is me. She first must get with a Pulmonary specialist for a future plan.

Steve, I'm so sorry to hear this. Marion's family has a strong genetic thread of PF, so we're mindful of it. (For example, her mother died from it. Marion has been checked over the years and so far no sign of it.)

I hope she continues to have the slow, non-crisis variety.

Getting back to astrology, I'm not going to buy that Mars-Saturn aspect. I have no evidence that octiles operate in return charts (and a lot of examples where they clearly don't) and, since Mars is background, this would only be in the "non-foreground partile aspect" category.

That angular Saturn is certainly a marker, though it shares the spotlight with some really positive angular planets and aspects. Gayle's SLR actually looks GOOD. I wonder what extremely positive stuff might have come along with this? (I don't mean just the "it's not so bad, there's no crisis, coulda been worse" sort of thing, but something remarkably positive and upbeat.) Your four closest SLR angularities are:

r Jupiter on IC +0°57'
t Saturn on Dsc -2°13'
t Uranus on MC +2°59'
r Saturn on EP-a +1°46'

The only close foreground aspect is transiting Jupiter (1°55'). Of non-foreground aspects, the closest are a Mercury square to natal Moon and a Venus-Jupiter mundane square, both only 0°04' wide. Other background partile aspects could hint at this news, like Venus conjunct natal Saturn (0°12' M), but the SLR overall - the angular planets and foreground aspects that set the tone, and even the non-foreground ultra-close aspects - are definitely more positive than negative.

Turning to Gayle's SLR, I wonder if she suspected this and the results were only a formality? Because, really, her SLR is about as positive as it gets with THREE transiting benefics foreground and a touch of natal Jupiter. Natal Pluto is quite strong, so a bit of existential reflection fits - though (lunar returns aside) Pluto's transit to natal Sun seems more indicative of that. - Using only the closest angular planets, her current SLR for this news is:

r Pluto on Asc +1°16'
t Jupiter on MC -1°21'
t Venus on Asc -2°45'

These give a strong transiting Venus-Jupiter square, Venus conjunct her Pluto 0°22', and Jupiter square her Pluto (close but not partile).

Including the more widely angular foreground planets, transiting Uranus is 9° before MC and natal Jupiter 9° before Dsc, so there is a Uranus-to-Jupiter transit 0°19' M. This is a really positive, upbeat SLR, though perhaps with some soul-searching about life and loved ones.

So, as important and serious as this diagnosis is, I'm betting there is some other good stuff that is a bigger deal in both of your lives right now. What say you?

[Jim Eshelman]

Moving away from the SLRs, the biggest thing going on in Gayle's chart - a roughly two-year process unless solunar angularity stretches it out - is transiting Pluto square her Sun. This permanently alters life and one's sense of oneself. (If she were in an acute phase, I'd worry about this - one form of Pluto to Sun in seniors is confrontation with mortality - but there is no reason to suspect a crisis.)

Neptune is slowly going over her Saturn, too (just as it is your Sun). There will be a lot to watch and learn, over the next two years, as this doubled transit moves across your planets.

Saturn is going back and forth over her Moon. - These are all health debilitating aspects (Ne-Sa, Sa-Mo), so it's not surprising they come to a head now.

She is already past her worst solar arc for a while - MC opposite natal Mars - and has Venus to MC moving into orb in a few months. If there is to be a health crisis, the directions seem to point to d Mars conjunct r Moon in (almost exactly) two years.

Her new SSR next month plays up natal Mars most strongly and has several foreground close aspects I don't like, such as Saturn to Moon-Mars-Pluto and Neptune to Saturn. On the nice aspect side two-way Moon-Venus aspects. For Alabama, she has a partile mundane Moon-Pluto conjunction (and, in any case, Moon is 3°05' from square Pluto in the SSR, so about three months after her birthday the aspect will be exact).

So... road trip!

How about Phoenix: Two Jupiters closely angular, Saturn also strong but backed off into second place, and an acquired Moon-Uranus mundane square (in addition to Moon to natal Venus). It could be splendid. - the transiting Jupiter line is most exact on the northwest corner of Phoenix, around Surprise, AZ (where my in-laws live). The two Jupiter lines also are great for Sedona (t Jupiter within 1' of Nadir, r Jupiter within a degree) though that also brings Saturn slightly closer and loses the Moon-Uranus square.

Or, if she's been wanting to see British Columbia, how about heading there way out at the tip of the island at Port Hardy? Transiting Jupiter is 2°45' from IC and natal Uranus is closely setting. The only way you can get the Jupiter closer is to head out into the ocean or up into the Yukon - Arizona is definitely easier to get to.

Is international travel in the books? (I know it's less than a month away, so probably not.) Dublin, Ireland has transiting Venus exactly on IC, natal Uranus rising, and the only aspects immediately important are Moon squares to both Venuses (one ecliptic, one mundane).

[Jim Eshelman]

Finally, Steve, I wanted to touch on the principle you've been citing recently, that nothing can result from predictive charts that can't be seen in the natal. I'm not sure this is true with return charts because, in a sense, they give you a "new birth chart," but such things as health vulnerabilities tend to show in the natal: Take Marion's recent experience breaking her ankle. Her only other broken bones in her life were the lower leg in a ski accident. Her Moon and Mars are both in Leo, ruling the lower legs and ankles!

Testing this against my recent paper/chapter on medical astrology, step 1 is to assess overall vitality: Gayle's is average (neither poor nor unusually high, though the wide Moon-Sun trine might boost it a little). Moon in Aquarius and Mars in Scorpio do not point to the PF.

With no non-foreground hard aspects, we turn to foreground hard aspects to see the most likely health eruptions. She has four Class 1 hard aspects: Mercury-Venus, Mercury-Neptune, Saturn-Uranus (mundane and very close), and the wider Venus-Neptune. This is the heart of what we look at and... bingo! From the text:

Mercury-Neptune. Nerve atrophy, weakening, or paralysis. Aberrations of sensory abilities or perception: misperception, dis-orientation, distortions of data and communication. Pulmonary (breathing) disorders. Psychiatric disorders.

Saturn-Uranus. Tension. Inhibition of biological rhythms. Impairment of body’s electrical system (e.g., congestive heart disease, electrical injuries, difficulty concentrating or connecting thoughts, deficit attention, muscle cramps). Spastic colon, elimination struggles (constipation). Skeletal injury (? amputation). – Ebertin attributes it to irregular, erratic breathing rhythm (Cheyne-Stokes).

[Arena]

I'm so very sorry to hear about your wife's condition Steve. This condition can be caused by mold toxins in her environment, either at home or work - somewhere where she spends a huge part of her day/night.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Finally, Steve, I wanted to touch on the principle you've been citing recently, that nothing can result from predictive charts that can't be seen in the natal.

Jim, I will start a new topic on this issue, it is an issue which peaks my interests and I want to read your feedback on this subject. I can see glimpses of truth with my Natal but not enough solid evidence with Charles Carter’s opinions. I am sure your sight and opinions on this issue will help us all learn maybe new things.

Gayle is taking the negative Pulmonary Fibrosis (PF) disease diagnosis well, saying we all have to die of something, she is 73. So far with my early Virgo research into PF the medical establishments know very little about this disease, no cures, the stages advance at different rates for different people. I think I have found a contact (male) who has tried a new drug for this disease and reported to a person I talked with yesterday that the new drug has halted the advance of his PF. Gayle and I are trying to get his contact information.

Excellent aspect observation Jim on Gayle’s Natal for a weaken constitution for breathing problems, she has always had flare-ups with severe sinus problems. Thanks.

[Jim Eshelman]

AFAIK there is only one cure for PF, which is lung transplant; and they are not likely to do that for someone in their 70s. Therefore, AFAIK, the best medical course is to manage it (as you said). There is a very good chance this is what Gayle will eventually die from, though no indication that will necessarily be soon.

Regarding "it has to be in the natal"... Fagan argued strongly against this. In The Solunars Handbook, look at the section "The Role of the Birthchart" beginning on page 48. (I won't copy any of it here - I know you have the book.) I agree with Fagan's argument in general (though not his particular example: He says nobody could tell the dramatic life differences between two people based on their nearly identical charts, and I find it very easy to tell them apart).

His basic argument is a variation of the position that every solar return is a "new birth chart." Though he doesn't put it this way, it is as if he is agreeing that "everything important that happens must be shown in the birthchart" provided you always count the current SSR as the birthchart! I find this a comforting compromise on all the various claims.

Progressions and directions are different, though. In the case of directions, by definition everything they show is "shown in the birthchart" because you are only rotating the birthchart to unlock them. That's not true for progressions, but secondary progressions do seem to be unfolding of things born into us (in the same way that puberty is a natural unfolding - at the right time - of something born into us). In early life, progressions are unfolding of aspects easily seen in the natal, though later in life this becomes less so.

Transits are somewhere in between. Transits work entirely their own as if solar and lunar returns didn't exist, and then the solunars tighten and focus when attention is most put on them. Taken on their own, transits (especially of the outer planets) are better understood as cycles rather than single moments in time. All transits to natal factors (with the back and forth of retrograding) are phases of life during which the universe is shaping us in some way; and transits of planets to themselves, the angles, and the luminaries do seem to operate as cycles, much as Grant Lewi famously documented, where you ultimately can't understand a single transit outside the pattern of the entire series of the same transit (e.g., Saturn moving from the conjunction with natal Sun to the square, then the opposition, then the square, then back to the conjunction, etc.)

Progressions are us modifying and unfolding ourselves. Transits are the world carving and shaping us like a sculptor's chisel. Directions are rotations of the nativity to unlock precisely what was encoded there in the first place. And solunar returns are entirely new natal horoscopes alongside our original one, and fine-tuning the unfolding of transits.

[SteveS]

Jim, I clearly understand what Fagan wrote about his disagreement about “it’s all in the Natal” with his SSR example proving this is not so, and basically I agree with Fagan. But there is an aspect in my Natal which manifested its symbolism big time in my life as the most important event in my 76 years of life which interests me as to some of the things Carter discussed. I want to investigate this further with Carters words. I will try to start the new topic today for further discussions.

And yes, Gayle & I clearly understand about the issues involved with her PF. I have got to get with my Doctor for certain advice---Gayle knows all too well I am going to Virgotize this PF issue for her and assist in the best way(s) to prepare/delay the inevitable. From what we understand now it's about doing all we can for longer quality of life (more trips with her friend )

[Jim Eshelman]

And go to Arizona for her birthday. You probably do not want her Alabama SSR next month.

[SteveS]

I will tell her Jim—it’s her decision. But no avoiding her SSR Moon-Pluto and t Saturn to Natal Moon.

[Jim Eshelman]

I will tell her Jim—it’s her decision. But no avoiding her SSR Moon-Pluto and t Saturn to Natal Moon.

True. But the Saturn transit to her Moon isn't active in the SSR (it's over 4° away and natal Moon isn't foreground/angular in Arizona) - she still gets the transit over the course of the year, but doesn't lock it into the SSR. And with the anywhere-in-the-world Moon-Pluto, she would pick up a mundane Moon-Uranus square to support the Moon to natal Venus.

In Springville, natal Moon is widely foreground, so the Saturn transit to natal Moon is foreground (like Saturn to natal Mars and Pluto). Here's the chart for Springville that worries me:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ve 16Le44'45"  0S22 +58'45" 163° 5'  6N48 280°50' - 3°53' 176° 3'  96% D 
Ne  0Pi21'54"  1S16 - 1'20" 356°19'  2S59  90°18' - 4°55'   4°55'  94% A 
Sa  5Aq35'48"  1S45 - 1'22" 333°22' 12S53 111°27' + 8° 4' 351°21'  81% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ma 24Sc 1' 5"  1S16 +43'51" 258° 1' 24S16 184°41' +31°49' 262°29' 100% Z 
Mo  9Aq49'11"  2S 9 +12°49' 337°32' 11S43 108° 3' + 5°29' 354°14'  91% A 
Sa  2Vi52'35"  1N59 + 6'49" 178°55'  2N39 268°34' + 6°53' 186°53'  88% D 
Pl 25Cn34'19"  8N17 + 0'53" 145°53' 22N27 303°28' - 7°30' 171° 2'  80% D 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMo co tPl  0°56' 98% M tPl sq rSu  0°18'100%                           
----------------------   ----------------------                         
tMo sq rVe  2°40' 86%   rMe co rVe  0°56' 98% M                         
tVe op rMo  1°50' 94% M 
tSa co rMo  2°53' 84% M 
tSa sq rMa  1° 9' 97% M                                                 
tSa op rPl  0°19'100% M                                                 
tNe op rSa  1°58' 92% M                                                 
----------------------                                                  
rMo sq rMa  1°44' 94% M                                                 
rMa sq rPl  1°28' 96% M 

Here's the chart I'm suggesting would be significantly better including strengthening her health situation:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                           Transiting Planets                           
Ju 17Ar 4'57"  1S25 - 7'43"  40°10' 14N 8  20°47' -39°46'  66°54' 100% N 
Sa  5Aq35'48"  1S45 - 1'22" 333°22' 12S53  97° 8' -12°44'  12°50'  98% E 
Mo 29Sg45'47"  5S17 +13°58' 297°49' 26S21 127°42' + 6°26' 351°53'  83% A 
Pl  2Cp51' 0"  2S44 + 0'19" 300°36' 23S16 123°41' + 6°37' 352° 3'  84% A 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Radical Planets                             
Ju  3Aq33' 6"  1S15 - 0'38" 331°13' 13S 7  98°29' -11° 6'  11°13' 100% E 
Pl 25Cn34'19"  8N17 + 0'53" 145°53' 22N27 289°17' +11°44' 192°24' 100% Wa
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects      Other Partile Aspects                          
tMo sq tUr  2°19' 90% M tPl sq rSu  0°18'100%                           
tMo co tPl  0°10'100% M 
----------------------  
tMo sq rVe  2°40' 86%                                                   
tSa co rJu  1°37' 95% M                                                 
tSa op rPl  0°26'100% M                                                 
----------------------                                                  
rJu op rPl  1°11' 97% M

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim, I will thoroughly go over in detail with Gayle. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Gayle wants to know where in Arizona?

[Jim Eshelman]

Gayle wants to know where in Arizona?

Quoting from above:

How about Phoenix: Two Jupiters closely angular, Saturn also strong but backed off into second place, and an acquired Moon-Uranus mundane square (in addition to Moon to natal Venus). It could be splendid. - the transiting Jupiter line is most exact on the northwest corner of Phoenix, around Surprise, AZ (where my in-laws live). The two Jupiter lines also are great for Sedona (t Jupiter within 1' of Nadir, r Jupiter within a degree) though that also brings Saturn slightly closer and loses the Moon-Uranus square.

I also wrote:

Is international travel in the books? (I know it's less than a month away, so probably not.) Dublin, Ireland has transiting Venus exactly on IC, natal Uranus rising, and the only aspects immediately important are Moon squares to both Venuses (one ecliptic, one mundane).

If you want to experiment, TMSA gives slightly more accurate timing than Solar Fire, but you can calculate the chart in SF as if it were a natal. The SSR occurs October 21, 2023, 21:15:14 UT (3:15:14 PM CDT).

[SteveS]

Gayle is now seriously considering Pheonix for either with me or her best friend.

[Jim Eshelman]

Gayle is now seriously considering Pheonix for either with me or her best friend.

I sincerely believe it will improve her length and quality of life, and both of your happiness over the next year - otherwise I wouldn't push. If she goes, I strongly suggest maximizing the Jupiter line down to the minute by getting out to the NW suburb of Surprise, AZ at 2:15 PM MST for the exact SSR.

My favorite restaurant in Phoenix is Garcia's Las Avenidas (on the west side). The original Garcia's expanded over the years to many restaurants owned by the children and then ballooned into a chain. The parents who started it wanted to get out of the craziness and so they broke away and started their own new "back to what we started out doing" single restaurant called Garcia's Las Avenidas that is fun and has excellent food. (The other two remaining, still named Garcia's something-or-other are also good but not like this one.) Tell Gayle the margaritas are worth ordering. - The mother who started it died a few months ago. I've eaten there on and off for over 40 years.
https://garciasaz.com/
https://garciasaz.com/the-garcia-story/

[SteveS]

Thanks for the links Jim and precise location/time for Gayle to be for her 2023 SSR if she decides to relocate her SSR.

Tell Gayle the margaritas are worth ordering.

This may be the clincher for her decision to relocate . And what a beautiful success story for the Garcia Family .