tr. Neptune sq. natal Pluto

[TheScales_BothWays]

Feb 14, 2016

Here's the interpretation of the aforementioned transit given in this forum:

A deep-rooted psychological evolution is occurring for you. These changes in your window on life and fundamental philosophical orientation are taking place under the surface, perhaps not immediately visible to you or those around you. In reflective moments you will begin to notice that you are thinking about things much differently than before, that even the physical details of the world around you look different. At other times you may simply feel withdrawn, a little uneasy, "not all there," distracted. Quiet, introspective self-examination is a fruitful activity for you right now, as you silently restructure attitudes and priorities to initiate a new era of your life.
IN BRIEF: Deep-rooted psychological evolution. Changes occur in your basic views of life, purpose, and reality; but may not be outwardly visible. Introverted, restructuring attitudes. Spiritual growth.

Right now tr. Neptune's just 3 degrees away from exactly squaring my natal Pluto.
I agree I may have changed but I don't think I've entirely changed (?). Some things went away, some things came in, and some things stayed but become more apparent.

Okay wait I noticed this is the third time Neptune's squaring my Pluto. One happened last April, another happened (while Nep. was in retro) at August. In fact Neptune turned retro while it was still considered partile conj. Pluto.
So the main "changes" that happened last year to me were:
Being more social (in correct words, wanting to be social with others even more, esp to those who have a great conversation together)
Confirming my homosexuality, and then later acknowledging that I'm "emotionally attracted" to women anyway,
Liking to get responsibilities and get the perks of it, esp the perks ofresponsibilty. (I was the class monitor last year, I manage the whole of my class, and got some perks. There were some cons, but they weren't so depressing and such for long.)
Desire to be (and look) better in terms of lifestyle and appearance, but I've put it under the burden of the future.

Now, I don't think the changes are so on the good side, but there are some good changes,
Desire to look better is magnified, but usually for my future partner, not for myself.
I find myself beautiful at times (no it's a different type of feeling from vanity), which makes me feel better that I'll look good for my would-be.
Though I think those above effects are more to my tr.Netune opp. Venus transit?
Bascially the same things above, but nowadays I'm not so close to my immediate family, even though we live at the same home. I'm just thinking them (esp my parents) as my "raisers" instead of my parents. My plans of my future don't include them. Arrogance in play here?—they do call me as "arrogant", but I consider arrogance as "deadly". I guess I'm more to "rebelliousness" ? Not the typical teenage rebelliousness, but more to the "leave me be, I know what to do, but that doesn't mean I don't want you anymore" type.
I'm fine and have the same feeling of fondness with my extended family though.
Also, I've delved into western astrology when tr. Neptune was about 2 degrees from natal Pluto.

The main question is, are these the normal/expected experiences when one is in a transit like mine? Right now I'm just wondering what am I doing with my life right now, I don't want to fail miserably in it, and I don't want to repeat my parent's lives. Not that they've failed miserably too, but I know they could've done better. I'm not blaming them though, esp. on this matter.
I'm also afraid that Neptune will disappoint me, someday, some way, with it's high idealism and hopes.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Right now tr. Neptune's just 3 degrees away from exactly squaring my natal Pluto.

Neptune first entered a 1° orb of square your Pluto March 17, 2015 and will last leave that orb January 11,2017. In the meantime, it will make three exact crossings, and will likely appear on diverse lunar return angles, which will highlight it for two to four weeks each time.

Within that time, Saturn conjoins your Pluto December 4, 2015 through August 29, 2016. This needs to be considered in the context of the longer Neptune transit.

I agree I may have changed but I don't think I've entirely changed (?).

You still have a year to go in the process. Look back in spring 2017 and think about it

[TheScales_BothWays]

By the way, many of the things you mentioned seemed Venus related and, doh, I forgot to mention that, with your almost partile Venus-Pluto square, Venus is getting these transits at the same time (more or less). So, to layer into the process:

Neptune opposes your Venus beginning April 22, 2015 and ending February 15, 2017. Saturn conjoins your Venus December 14, 2015 to September 24, 2016.

To list this a bit differently:

March 17, 2015 Neptune-Pluto begins
April 22, 2015 Neptune-Venus begins
December 4, 2015 Saturn-Pluto begins
December 14, 2015 Saturn-Venus begins
August 29, 2016 Saturn-Pluto ends
September 24, 2016 Saturn-Venus ends
January 11,2017 Neptune-Pluto ends
February 15, 2017 Neptune-Venus ends

[TheScales_BothWays]

Right now tr. Neptune's just 3 degrees away from exactly squaring my natal Pluto.

Neptune first entered a 1° orb of square your Pluto March 17, 2015 and will last leave that orb January 11,2017. In the meantime, it will make three exact crossings, and will likely appear on diverse lunar return angles, which will highlight it for two to four weeks each time.

Within that time, Saturn conjoins your Pluto December 4, 2015 through August 29, 2016. This needs to be considered in the context of the longer Neptune transit.

I agree I may have changed but I don't think I've entirely changed (?).

You still have a year to go in the process. Look back in spring 2017 and think about it

Oh, so i's a long term transformation I guess. Okay, I'm waiting.
Ah, I didn't notice that Saturn's transiting Pluto too! That explains! It's not in partile, but it's still there.

By the way, many of the things you mentioned seemed Venus related and, doh, I forgot to mention that, with your almost partile Venus-Pluto square, Venus is getting these transits at the same time (more or less).

I suppose you meant my natal Venus-Pluto square?
Oh yeah, since both are almost partile, tr.Saturn aspecting of the planets means it's aspecting another too.

So, to layer into the process:

Neptune opposes your Venus beginning April 22, 2015 and ending February 15, 2017. Saturn conjoins your Venus December 14, 2015 to September 24, 2016.

To list this a bit differently:

March 17, 2015 Neptune-Pluto begins
April 22, 2015 Neptune-Venus begins
December 4, 2015 Saturn-Pluto begins
December 14, 2015 Saturn-Venus begins
August 29, 2016 Saturn-Pluto ends
September 24, 2016 Saturn-Venus ends
January 11,2017 Neptune-Pluto ends
February 15, 2017 Neptune-Venus ends

Thanks for the list of transits!

P.S. Sorry if my thread was too emotional or something. Must be my tr.Mercury(or tr.Venus) and N.Neptune conjunction right now .

[TheScales_BothWays]

I'd like to add that, I went through this at a similar age to yourself, but I don't have Venus linked to Pluto. For me, it was more of a spiritual experience than anything else.

[TheScales_BothWays]

I'd like to add that, I went through this at a similar age to yourself, but I don't have Venus linked to Pluto. For me, it was more of a spiritual experience than anything else.

Interesting, glad to know.
I've yet to experience anything truly spiritual, though, and I'm yet to comment how is my experience till I get through this. Things are changing (mostly on a personal level), hopefully for the good.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Transiting Pluto is going to be partile square my natal Neptune tomorrow. Supposed to incline one to occupy oneself with unusual problems. So I bought my dog a wheelchair.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Transiting Pluto is going to be partile square my natal Neptune tomorrow. Supposed to incline one to occupy oneself with unusual problems. So I bought my dog a wheelchair.

Oh dear, I'm so sorry for your dog!
Or was that a joke?

Supposed to incline one to occupy oneself with unusual problems.

Though in the interpretations here for your current transit it says that your belief systems and your perception of reality will be changed instead of saying that you'll face unusual problems.

[TheScales_BothWays]

It's unlikely my belief systems or my perception of reality would change. I don't see great earthshaking effects from most transits, and I hope that continues. But the effect of that is I don't get excited about most aspects. Sure, if Pluto were transiting my natal Jupiter, I'd buy a lottery ticket, but at this point, I've seen most transits before, or experienced something similar enough I'm not left gasping for breath and in shock.

No it wasn't a joke. I have an elderly dog who's lost the ability to walk on his own after a couple of recent stays at the veterinarian. I brought him back from something similar last summer by carrying most of the weight of his back half for him till he got his strength back, but he's worse off this time, and too heavy for me to carry all his weight. Thus the wheelchair. He likes it. It gets us both outside walking, and if one of us falls on the ice, the other doesn't have to follow. And he gets lots of attention, which is always good for him.

[TheScales_BothWays]

It seems to me that some transits go more unnoticed than others. Those that happen to fall on your SSR or natal angles are the ones you will experience the strongest. If an aspect is not on angles, you may not notice it much.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Well, Neptune to Pluto per se is definitely one that can go unperceived. It's under the surface etc. When I wrote this interpretations around 1980, I had to dig fiercely through people's lives (talking to them) to get a handle on it. Most people miss is entirely.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Yes, of course, but as I said, I've seen most of these transits or something close before, in my own chart and those of others, and the big events that are usually predicted don't usually present.

[TheScales_BothWays]

I might add in here that I have read recently that Robert Hand wonders about real placement of planets (mundo) and says that we may not feel effects from aspects until they are real in mundo. Fagan states in his book that one should read SSR's aspects in mundo, not ecliptic.

I know Jim may not agree on this, but both those astrologers talk about this issue.
So we may have to notice when aspects form in mundo, not ecliptic.

[TheScales_BothWays]

It seems to me that some transits go more unnoticed than others. Those that happen to fall on your SSR or natal angles are the ones you will experience the strongest. If an aspect is not on angles, you may not notice it much.

I see.
My Neptune-Venus falls on my SSR angles (and so does my Saturn-Venus, Saturn-Pluto, and Neptune Pluto transits), apparently, with the transit planets angular on the SSR chart and the natal planets in angular in natal with SSR's angles.
Each of those transits are fall on both of my quarti SSR angles too. I guess that's when they'll manifest. My demi doesn't reflect any transit, except maybe tr.Venus sq. n.Mars, very widely. Venus is on the IC, natal Mars is somewhat on the Asc.
And so my current quarti shows that my Neptune-Venus, Saturn-Venus, Saturn-Pluto and Neptune-Pluto transits will manifest, though in the later quarti (the one after my demi) the transit's get more angular and exact.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Well, Neptune to Pluto per se is definitely one that can go unperceived. It's under the surface etc. When I wrote this interpretations around 1980, I had to dig fiercely through people's lives (talking to them) to get a handle on it. Most people miss is entirely.

My mother had Neptune square her natal Pluto, and I noticed nothing with her either, may I ask could the pronounced effect have been due to having my Pluto so close to the vertex?

[TheScales_BothWays]

Well, Neptune to Pluto per se is definitely one that can go unperceived. It's under the surface etc. When I wrote this interpretations around 1980, I had to dig fiercely through people's lives (talking to them) to get a handle on it. Most people miss is entirely.

My mother had Neptune square her natal Pluto, and I noticed nothing with her either, may I ask could the pronounced effect have been due to having my Pluto so close to the vertex?

Unlikely, unless it's so close that you a separate but concurrent transit of Pluto to Vertex at the same time.

It might have been because the effect was prominent in an immediate return chart, or simply that you are much more sensitive and inward-witnessing than most people.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jim, what would you have to say about relocating to a place where Neptune & Pluto become your two most angular planets, both partile conjunct angles in mundo?

There is not much said about those two concurrently on SSR angles - wonder how they would turn out on relocated angles as a conjunction, even though not conjunct in ecliptic.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jim, what would you have to say about relocating to a place where Neptune & Pluto become your two most angular planets, both partile conjunct angles in mundo?

Crazy-weird. Be prepared to live pretty much outside society and consensual reality. (That's a broad generalization, of course.)

In mundane astrology, it's far more extreme than that: With some of the very worst earthquakes, hurricanes, uprooting of nations, economic destabilization, and threshold events, I settled on the standard interpretation, "Heightened, surreal, reality-altering emotion to the point of insanity combined with mind-halting, senses-stunning events that are inherently decisive and separative."

[TheScales_BothWays]

Yes I did guess it could be something extraordinary going on

Ebertin says this about an aspect between Neptune-Pluto:

Principle: Supernatural
Probable manifestation:
+ The tendency to occupy oneself with unusual problems, the pursuit of peculiar hobbies and aspirations, a progressive, spiritual evolution.
- Peculiar states of soul experience, the pursuit of fantastic ideas, self-torment, manias, a craving for alcohol, nicotine, etc., obsession, confusion, a grievous loss.

And when angular he states that it has to do with mysticism and being in a peculiar environment.

[TheScales_BothWays]

...and here is what Bradley offers in the book about planets on angles:

NEPTUNE*PLUTO
Under these two most mysterious planets, the ideals and illusions of life are burned away, and much of the phoney order of the mind is upset, with resultant higher, though frightening and alienating, vision. Here you feel, quite rightly, that you have been through the worst, and what survives this stormy climate can be counted on to be real. You are able to recognize that there is more than one level of consciousness, a stupendous realization, and that the subjective can control the objective. After a period of purging, you feel that there is nothing left to believe in, then come to find inner strength and power to see the larger view. You may feel ennui, boredom, that everything is hollow, so that the inner voice demands attention where exterior realities are dimmed. Drugs or meditation can evoke transformation in the life, but there is danger of not being able to stand the strain, as well as obvious inability to take care of practicalities. The unconscious, spirits, demons and visions intrude insistently into daily life until the idea of sanity itself is transcended.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48191491/Dona ... phy#scribd

[TheScales_BothWays]

Just to be clear, that isn't Bradely. We've been over it before. It's Jim Lewis.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Hmmm... I don't recall that I've ever been over that this book is not by Bradley.
It says at the start that the book is by Donald Bradley, so I must assume that is right?

I did find a post from last October where you state that you think it is Jim Lewis though.

I'm unclear why this is attributed to Don Bradley, who died before Jim Lewis created A*C*G* in the late 1970s.

This appears to be one version of the booklet that Jim Lewis included when someone would buy an Astro*Carto*Graphy product from him. (I still have my copy somewhere in storage.) Nice little book. And it may be that there is some Bradley buried in there somewhere, because Jim (a good personal friend of mine BTW, who stayed at my house on occasion) did know Don from Tucson.

But, generally, this is Jim Lewis material.

I guess that reading the book it is not clear what is Bradley and what is Lewis - maybe they both had a say in this book. Maybe Bradley wrote it, and Jim Lewis published it years later?

[TheScales_BothWays]

I guess that reading the book it is not clear what is Bradley and what is Lewis - maybe they both had a say in this book. Maybe Bradley wrote it, and Jim Lewis published it years later?

100% of everything in the AstroCartography book is Jim Lewis. Style and content are not Bradley at all, though Jim learned from Bradley over their years of knowing each other and working together.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Hmmm... I don't recall that I've ever been over that this book is not by Bradley.
It says at the start that the book is by Donald Bradley, so I must assume that is right?

The book as uploaded to Scribd has had three lines added to the beginning. They say:

//ACG Astro*Carto*Graphy
// By Donald A. Bradley
//

They aren't original to the book, and they are not correct. It's possible they were added by someone (not necessarily the person who uploaded it) at some point to get around copyright.

We know what Bradley wrote, and this, while good, isn't by him. This is Jim Lewis' work.

[TheScales_BothWays]

This is an except from The Psychology of Astro*Carto*graphy written by Jim Lewis with Kenneth Irving, second edition, copyright 2012. (1st edition was 1997.)

Neptune with Pluto:
"You Mean Life Doesn't Have a Happy Ending?"
In this locale, the ideals and illusions of life are burned away like morning fog, and much of the phony order of the logical mind upset, with a resultant higher and clearer, though frightening and alienating, vision. Here you feel embittered by having been through the worst, and having seen an immature world view (and one too much the production of Hollywood, media fantasy, or a protected childhood,) violently and permanently shattered....
After this period of purging, you may feel there is little or nothing left to believe in....

[TheScales_BothWays]

BTW, the only reason this matters is because we don't want Jim Lewis or his legacy diminished because his work is attributed to others. That would be a shame.

[TheScales_BothWays]

That is certainly good to know. I think this is an excellent book and have been reading it a lot for my relocation studies. So Jim Lewis has done a good job in my opinion.

Have you seniors read the book? Do you agree with his interpretations?

[TheScales_BothWays]

I've read it. I got my Astro*Carto*Graphy report, which included the booklet in 1977. I think it's good, if a bit overblown here and there, (like most astrological writing.) It doesn't disagree with Fagan or Bradley or Eshelman on any large concepts. I think the booklet is a very abridged version of his book, The Psychology of Astro*Carto*Graphy, and Jim Lewis makes it clear in the book you need to be careful to understand moving won't change your chart. While you can bring this aspect or that into clearer focus, you can't cut out any planet or aspect. You are a whole, and can't cut out parts of yourself, and the same is true of your chart.

I looked up my old copy of that booklet. I found what may have been the source of the misattribution to Bradley.

Dedication
The Astro*Carto*Graphy project is respectfully dedicated to the astrologers who pioneered understanding of planetary influence, and particularly to the late Donald A. Bradley.

That's the only name in the booklet other than that of the Illustrator.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Arena asked:

Have you seniors read the book? Do you agree with his interpretations?

I also got Lewis Astrocartgraphy done (1978) for my Natal Chart long before I got my first astrology computer program which now would do the same Astrocatgraphy charts as Lewis charts. I never will forget when I first looked at my Astrocartgraphy chart from Lewis direct work, I discovered my Natal Jupiter line passed directly over Atlanta Georgia, which made a huge light bulb go-off in my mind because this was the main location where I earned my income & living for over 25 years of my adult business life. Also, I met the greatest Psychic ever for me who stated telling me the up-coming movies in a quarter which would be the top movie grosser. This gave me a huge movie contracting advantage at a point in my Theater Career which allowed me much Jupiter in my life. I was competing against the giant Theater Companies who were using crony big company tactics to try and put me out of business. After I sold my Theater the competing company offered me a movie contracting job because they though I had a special talent for selecting sleeper’s movies which grossed a-lot of $. Little did they know I was seeing a high grade psychic who was telling me the high grossing movies before the time arrived for me to bid and contact the movies for my Theater. There is no doubt in my mind that Astrocartgraphy lines work for all kinds of relocation purposes. If I remember correctly there are ways to do transits and progression Astrocartgraphy locations lines with the natal chart for each year with Lewis work. I learned a –lot from Lewis articles in American Astrology Mag, but I don’t remember too much about his book deleinations. Relative to my life and my main life objectives it was obvious to me with my Atlanta Jupiter line was working in a direct manner to enhance my life in a fun-loving joyous manner. I had many opportunities to move far away from my birth location, but when I got Lewis work knowing Jupiter was our greater benefic it would be foolish for me to move away from my Atlanta Jupiter line. Most all of my life’s benefic manifestations has directly come to me with all kinds my work in Atlanta Ga. I could cite dozens examples of the people I met in Atlanta that made a huge benefic difference in my life.